The OFFICIAL NHL 2009-10 Offseason Thread

[Draft Dodger]

it's 50% of the lower of the 1st 2 years. So in Pronger's case, it can't decrease by more than $3.8 million in any year. (article 50.7)

[Draft Dodger]

and yes, I did have to look that up

[TurnerONU22]

I don't think Philly screwed up here, they needed to get Pronger signed to an extension and they needed the lowest cap hit possible. They're taking a chance that in the next 5 years, they'll be able to raise the Cup. After that, they'll probably try to move him to a team that has the cap space, but a smaller budget.

There's a lot of things that can happen in the next 5 years. I still don't think its the best deal, but I think its the best deal they could do for being up against the cap. I don't think that Holmgren didn't know the CBA.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

sure does look like Philly screwed up here

Yeah the Flyers fucked up. I owe SR.

They end up trading him or having some South Philly goon hit him with a crecent wrench to put him on the LTIR.

[bhlloy]

I think Pronger can definitely play effectively until he's 41. The way he plays and the fact that he's a freak of nature probably means he'll play as long as Chelios if he really wants to. Nobody ever seems to get a clean hit on him (insert joke about the fact he never gets a "clean" hit on anyone else either here)

Whether he'll stay motivated that long is another question. I'm guessing the chances of him staying motivated in Philly are pretty much zero, but the Flyers should have no problem moving him when he's in his late 30's as he should still be playing pretty well IMO. So I don't think it's the worst contract in the world...

[bbor]

Why would the 'Monster" sign a deal this season when he is under the rookie cap and then be a RFA next season?

Why not wait a year(as i am sure he could make $900 000 in the swedish league) and then sign a LTD when he turns 25?

Makes more sense to me.

[DeToxRox]

Hudler to Russia apparently. There is confusion since he filed for arbitration this weekend but seems like he is gone. I figured he was gone going into the offseason. His point totals don't justify a big deal at all mainly because Babs didn't trust him to log more then 14 minutes a night and totally demoted him in the SCF. Good guy bit not worth the salary.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Everyone is basically looking at the situation as if the wings have two options: 1) Keep Hossa and let Samuelsson and Hulder walk or 2) Keep Hudler and Samuelsson and let Hossa walk.

I don't think it's quite that simple. Obviously if the Wings keep Hossa, they wont be able to resign either of those guys. Even if Hossa walks, I am not sure both Hudler and Samuelsson coming back is a sure thing. It all depends on what these guys feel like they can get elsewhere. Samuelsson has more options as an UFA and Hudler has fewer since he's an RFA. Hudler had a pretty good year, his best ever, scoring 29 goals. He does a lot with limited ice time. That said, he only gets limited ice time because there are many limits as to what he can do. He's not a great skater. Not big. Doesn't play great defense. He's got a good knack for the puck, sees the ice pretty well and good on the power play. I just can't see the Wings paying him anymore than $2 million a year, tops. They already have Cleary and Filpulla just above that and I'm not sure how many 3rd line/power play forwards who play around 10-12 minutes a game one can be willing to pay $2+ million. You already have Holmstrom getting paid at around that level.

Just as I predcited... Wise, am I.

[DataKing]

The question now is what can they find in the way of a bargain winger to fill the hole in their lineup? I have to assume they're going to want some experience, since they'll already be bringing up the three "kids" who saw significant time during the playoffs.

[DeToxRox]

I am pretty sure SD deleted my post on page 2 about predicting Hudler to Dynamo. Yeah .... that's it.

[NoSkillz]

Versteeg gets $9 million over three years.

It's going to be nice to see Patrick Kane in his hometown of Buffalo next year since Chicago won't be able to afford him :P

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I am pretty sure SD deleted my post on page 2 about predicting Hudler to Dynamo. Yeah .... that's it.

Don't worry, DeTox. I remember it.

I like Jiri Hudler. He's a smiley, jolly little guy who has good hands and tends to score a lot given his limited ice time. It'd be rough to lose him, since that would mean the Wings have lost around 70 goals worth of offense and have done nothing to replace it, but I if it's Hudler at $3 million or no Hudler, I will take the latter.

The Wings do need to find a winger who can score, but is willing to take around $2 million or less. That will be very hard to find. None of the potential names out there do anything for me: Satan, Sykora, Kotalik, Mark Parrish, Afinogenov, Jason Williams, etc.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Koivu to the Ducks for $3.25 million. Koivu and Selanne give the Ducks a decent second line behind Perry-Getzlaf-Ryan.

That said, without Pronger and Beauchemin their defense isn't quite as intimidating as it once was.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by NoSkillz

Versteeg gets $9 million over three years.

It's going to be nice to see Patrick Kane in his hometown of Buffalo next year since Chicago won't be able to afford him :P

And the Sabres will?

[RomaGoth]

Heh, maybe the Wings can sign him and effectively given up Hossa for Kane. Personally, I would take Kane because of his youth and potential. Don't see it happening, but it is a nice thought.

[DeToxRox]

Whoever gets Kane will be giving up a lot in the way of compensation and honestly I am not sure he is worth it for most teams, mainly because I don't see him as a franchise player. I might get shit for this but the kid is expendable in the long run. He is Paul Kariya; great offensive player, can lead a team into the playoffs but how much further can you get if he is your best player?

Toews meanwhile is a kid I thing is sensational. He is a guy who makes everyone on that team better and is a leader on and off the ice that the guys follow. He's more in the Yzerman, Sakic ilk. I think he is going to be a special, special player with or without Kane. I don't think you can say that about Kane without Toews.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Whoever gets Kane will be giving up a lot in the way of compensation and honestly I am not sure he is worth it for most teams, mainly because I don't see him as a franchise player. I might get shit for this but the kid is expendable in the long run. He is Paul Kariya; great offensive player, can lead a team into the playoffs but how much further can you get if he is your best player?

Toews meanwhile is a kid I thing is sensational. He is a guy who makes everyone on that team better and is a leader on and off the ice that the guys follow. He's more in the Yzerman, Sakic ilk. I think he is going to be a special, special player with or without Kane. I don't think you can say that about Kane without Toews.

I do agree with you some. I don't see him as a game-changing, franchise type player. He's a very, very good player, but I'm not sold that he going to be in the league of the Crosby, Alex, Malkin, or Iginla.

[NoSkillz]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Whoever gets Kane will be giving up a lot in the way of compensation and honestly I am not sure he is worth it for most teams, mainly because I don't see him as a franchise player. I might get shit for this but the kid is expendable in the long run. He is Paul Kariya; great offensive player, can lead a team into the playoffs but how much further can you get if he is your best player?

Toews meanwhile is a kid I thing is sensational. He is a guy who makes everyone on that team better and is a leader on and off the ice that the guys follow. He's more in the Yzerman, Sakic ilk. I think he is going to be a special, special player with or without Kane. I don't think you can say that about Kane without Toews.

I concur in some respects - I definitely believe Chicago values Toews much more than Kane and that makes Kane expendable next year.

Buffalo has always been Kane's favourite team growing up and the Sabres rolled out the welcome mat when he played here last year, comping his family box seats, etc. Just the thought of Kane in a Sabres uniform has Darcy Regier and Larry Quinn squirming in their seats in delight.

I definitely see the Sabres trying to trade for him and they'll have room under the cap next year with Tallinder and a couple other guys having their deals expire.

Doesn't mean it will happen but I guarantee the team will try to make a deal, even though they usually sit on their hands and do nothing at free agent time.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I do agree with you some. I don't see him as a game-changing, franchise type player. He's a very, very good player, but I'm not sold that he going to be in the league of the Crosby, Alex, Malkin, or Iginla.

Don't think Iginla should be listed in this group. Good player? Yes. One of the best ever? Not in my opinion. Let the flaming begin...

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Yeah the Flyers fucked up. I owe SR.

They end up trading him or having some South Philly goon hit him with a crecent wrench to put him on the LTIR.

While I don't believe the Flyers truly fucked up, you owe me anyway

Looking at it, they could NOT let him walk after the season. Even if they wanted to dump Lupul, they gave up alot in Sbisa and 2 firsts.

At that point, they needed to give Pronger enough money that he would stay. Problem there was if they wanted it limited to 3 seasons or so, they'd probably have to give him $6.5-7M per, and that wouldn't fit under the cap. So, they had to get creative and take a chance.

And thinking as Holmgren, either this move puts Philly over the top and he wins a Cup and is a hero...or it fails, Pronger falls apart and they are left with this dead cap hit, and Holmgren is gone anyway and doesn't have to deal with it.

On the bright side, you shouldn't have any trouble finding a South Philly goon.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Don't worry, DeTox. I remember it.

I like Jiri Hudler. He's a smiley, jolly little guy who has good hands and tends to score a lot given his limited ice time. It'd be rough to lose him, since that would mean the Wings have lost around 70 goals worth of offense and have done nothing to replace it, but I if it's Hudler at $3 million or no Hudler, I will take the latter.

The Wings do need to find a winger who can score, but is willing to take around $2 million or less. That will be very hard to find. None of the potential names out there do anything for me: Satan, Sykora, Kotalik, Mark Parrish, Afinogenov, Jason Williams, etc.

If you could morph a Parrish-Kotalik lovechild, you'd have a Wings. Parrish plays hard, but is well past his expiration date. Kotalik has skill, but so damn soft for a 220 lb guy.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Don't think Iginla should be listed in this group. Good player? Yes. One of the best ever? Not in my opinion. Let the flaming begin...

Far from a Flames fan but I do think Iggy does belong in this conversation...and this guy thinks so, too:

http://www.hockeyanalytics.com/Resea...NHL_Review.pdf

This guy has Iggy as the 3rd best forward during '03-'08 seasons behind Dats and Big Joe.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

While I don't believe the Flyers truly fucked up, you owe me anyway

Actually they did fuck up. Their lawyers told them that it was and under 35 deal according to the CBA. But I agree with you, they needed to lock him up.

He does only make 500k in each of his last 2 years so they could dump him to a team maybe needing to make the cap floor cause his cap hit would still be about 5 mil.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Actually they did fuck up. Their lawyers told them that it was and under 35 deal according to the CBA. But I agree with you, they needed to lock him up.

He does only make 500k in each of his last 2 years so they could dump him to a team maybe needing to make the cap floor cause his cap hit would still be about 5 mil.

That is rough to take, even as a Flyers hater.

How do they not run that past the league offices before putting pen to paper? Every has (or should) a cap guy who should have been able to tell them that.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

That is rough to take, even as a Flyers hater.

How do they not run that past the league offices before putting pen to paper? Every has (or should) a cap guy who should have been able to tell them that.

extremely enjoyable to me. I love that other teams can fuck up as much as my own

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Far from a Flames fan but I do think Iggy does belong in this conversation...and this guy thinks so, too:

http://www.hockeyanalytics.com/Resea...NHL_Review.pdf

This guy has Iggy as the 3rd best forward during '03-'08 seasons behind Dats and Big Joe.

I think Iggy belongs. Has he ever had the supporting cast that the Pens' stars or Oveckie have? Plus, Iggy does some excellent things in terms of leadership and physical play that can't be measure in terms of stats.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by NoSkillz

I concur in some respects - I definitely believe Chicago values Toews much more than Kane and that makes Kane expendable next year.

Buffalo has always been Kane's favourite team growing up and the Sabres rolled out the welcome mat when he played here last year, comping his family box seats, etc. Just the thought of Kane in a Sabres uniform has Darcy Regier and Larry Quinn squirming in their seats in delight.

I definitely see the Sabres trying to trade for him and they'll have room under the cap next year with Tallinder and a couple other guys having their deals expire.

Doesn't mean it will happen but I guarantee the team will try to make a deal, even though they usually sit on their hands and do nothing at free agent time.

Aren't the Sabres pretty invested in terms of cap space with guys like TC, Miller, Pommers, Vanek, Roy, ect. for the next few years? You'll have around $7.5 million in free money when Tallinder, Lydman, and Paetsch. Lalime is off the books next year (Enroth will likely take over the back-up position). Of course, we'll have to pick up two players to fill in (I'm guessing last year's 1st round pick Tyler Myers will be groomed to take over at one spot).

[NoSkillz]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Aren't the Sabres pretty invested in terms of cap space with guys like TC, Miller, Pommers, Vanek, Roy, ect. for the next few years? You'll have around $7.5 million in free money when Tallinder, Lydman, and Paetsch. Lalime is off the books next year (Enroth will likely take over the back-up position). Of course, we'll have to pick up two players to fill in (I'm guessing last year's 1st round pick Tyler Myers will be groomed to take over at one spot).

Well, they'll likely have to trade one of their top players anyway to get Kane - Roy or Pominville are definitely trade bait in that scenario, along with picks and prospects.

Trust me - they'll make room if the opportunity presents itself. Kane would sell tickets and lots of merchandise in the Queen City.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Koivu to the Ducks for $3.25 million. Koivu and Selanne give the Ducks a decent second line behind Perry-Getzlaf-Ryan.

That said, without Pronger and Beauchemin their defense isn't quite as intimidating as it once was.

Obviously, there's no question the Ducks' blueline looks worse. That said, Niedermayer is still a top #1 D-man, Whitney is an effective PP QB, and Wiz is a solid all around D-man. Add in Sbisa, who played well for the Flyers last year, and 4-5 young defensemen who all have some talent in Festerling, Salcido, Mikkelssen, Mitera, etc., and I think they'll be okay, and will get better as the season goes by. Plus, my guess is, as the summer advances a decent vet will become available for cheap as cap room runs out everywhere.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I hate Vancouver more than any other Canadian team actually. I think anytime I was paying attention to hockey a lot, the Canucks were beating the Jets. I remember one game where it was the 3rd period of a playoff game, and Vancouver just tied it to seemingly send it to overtime... then on a face-off in the Jets' end with a few seconds left, Vancouver won the draw and fired at the net. The puck actually went in, but I think the time ran out before it crossed or something? Anyway, I remember the replay being shown so many times and it just crushed me. I don't even remember who won that game, but I'll be safe and guess Vancouver.

I finally found the game we were both thinking of! I was wrong, it wasn't the game 6 in '92, it was game 6 the following year, same two teams. Here is the write-up on Wikipedia:

"Back in Winnipeg on April 29, the rabid fans were determined to send the series to a decisive seventh game, and the teams battled to another 3–3 deadlock with 3.4 seconds to play and a faceoff deep in Winnipeg's end. The Canucks won the draw and Sergio Momesso managed a shot on goal, which sneaked through Bob Essensa and into the net as time expired. The Canucks jumped off the bench, thinking they had won the game and the series, but a lengthy video review was unable to determine if the puck had crossed the line before time expired and it was ruled no goal. Eight minutes in to overtime Greg Adams drove hard to the Winnipeg net and was brought down by a Winnipeg backchecker. As he went down, the puck hit his skate and went into the net. Another replay was ordered, but this time a goal was awarded and the Canucks had won the series. There was little on-ice celebrating, though, as the incensed Winnipeg fans began littering the ice with debris, and so the teams quickly shook hands and vacated the playing surface."

1992–93 Vancouver Canucks season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was definitely there, I remember people throwing crap on the ice and my friends and I being pretty disappointed in that. We were pretty upset about the call though, I remember it being absolute BS.

[MikeVic]

Awesome that you found it. That was definitely the earliest sports heartbreak I can remember (maybe there were ones earlier, but I forget them). I hated Vancouver so much after that.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Eight minutes in to overtime Greg Adams drove hard to the Winnipeg net and was brought down by a Winnipeg backchecker.

I have a signed photograph of Greg Adams.

There used to be this wrestler in the WCCW back in the day called "The Gentleman" Chris Adams. I think he was British or something. So, we started to refer to Greg Adams as "The Gentleman" Greg Adams whenever we played Sega hockey or strat-o-matic.

A friend of mine worked for the Dallas Stars while Adams was playing for them. He told Adams about the nickname and he thought it was pretty funny and signed the photo "The Gentleman" Greg Adams.

That's all I have to add to this.

Edit: Just wiki'd the wrestler Chris Adams. Wow, I had no idea that things ended so poorly for him.

[bbor]

[quote=Honolulu_Blue;2068444]I have a signed photograph of Greg Adams.

There used to be this wrestler in the WCCW back in the day called "The Gentleman" Chris Adams. I think he was British or something. So, we started to refer to Greg Adams as "The Gentleman" Greg Adams whenever we played Sega hockey or strat-o-matic.

QUOTE]

Geek!

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I was definitely there, I remember people throwing crap on the ice and my friends and I being pretty disappointed in that. We were pretty upset about the call though, I remember it being absolute BS.

You're still mad about one bad call from a playoff game in 1993?

Dude, get over it.

[Pyser]

ok, hockey fans

last night at trivia the final round was name the 11 hockey teams that have won the stanley cup 3 times or more.

i got all 11 right, according to the quizmaster...but have a sneaking suspicion their question was flawed, because the cup is kind of a mess before, what, the mid 20s?

without looking it up, what 11 would you guys come up with?

[DataKing]

People still curse Bucky Dent's name too.

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by Pyser

ok, hockey fans

last night at trivia the final round was name the 11 hockey teams that have won the stanley cup 3 times or more.

i got all 11 right, according to the quizmaster...but have a sneaking suspicion their question was flawed, because the cup is kind of a mess before, what, the mid 20s?

without looking it up, what 11 would you guys come up with?

My guesses would be: Detroit, Pittsburgh, Toronto, NY Rangers, Montreal, Edmonton, Minnesota/Dallas, Quebec/Colorado, Boston, New Jersey, and Chicago.

[Pyser]

for the sake of confusion, i wouldnt count teams that moved. the avalanche are not the nordiques, for example

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by DataKing

My guesses would be: Detroit, Pittsburgh, Toronto, NY Rangers, Montreal, Edmonton, Minnesota/Dallas, Quebec/Colorado, Boston, New Jersey, and Chicago.

Minnesota/Dallas have only won one, and Quebec Colorado two, I believe.

NYI should be on that list. Philly has 2 for sure... I don't know that they ever got a 3rd though.

So I know for sure:

Detroit, Chicago, NYR, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, NYI, Pittsburgh, NJ EDIT: + Edmonton

That leaves 2 others that I can't account for, 1 if Philly did indeed get 3.

[Fidatelo]

Dola

Oops, left Edmonton off. So only 1 more unaccounted for.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Minnesota/Dallas have only won one, and Quebec Colorado two, I believe.

NYI should be on that list. Philly has 2 for sure... I don't know that they ever got a 3rd though.

So I know for sure:

Detroit, Chicago, NYR, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, NYI, Pittsburgh, NJ

That leaves 2 others that I can't account for, 1 if Philly did indeed get 3.

Montreal, Detroit, Rangers, Boston, Chicago, Toronto, Islanders, Penguins, Oilers, Devils...

I know those 10 for sure.

Is it some weird team from back in the day? Like some defunct team from like Vancouver or Hamilton or Ottawa or something?

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

You're still mad about one bad call from a playoff game in 1993?

Dude, get over it.

Hahaha!

Imageshack - Error

[DataKing]

I'm second-guessing myself on the Devils now...and the Islanders were definitely an oversight on my part (those late 70s-early 80s teams).

[johnnyshaka]

detroit, pittsburgh, toronto, montreal, edmonton, NYR, NYI, boston, chicago, ottawa, and New Jersey??

[DataKing]

Ottawa doesn't sound right to me...but if not them, then who are we missing?

[Pyser]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

detroit, pittsburgh, toronto, montreal, edmonton, NYR, NYI, boston, chicago, ottawa, and New Jersey??

thats what i went with, and it was called right. but really, none of those early other team didnt win 3? like some team in rochester, or a 2nd montreal team?

i guess i should look it up, but thought this would be a good place to ask first

[johnnyshaka]

I was there the night they raised the stanley cup banners in Ottawa...it's Ottawa. They won it several times WAY back when.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Pyser

thats what i went with, and it was called right. but really, none of those early other team didnt win 3? like some team in rochester, or a 2nd montreal team?

i guess i should look it up, but thought this would be a good place to ask first

You're right...the wording could've been better...something like current NHL teams (which the Senators are) and that would dismiss teams like the Winnipeg Victorias or the Montreal Maroons.

[Maple Leafs]

Original six + Ottawa, Edmonth, NYI, Devils and Pens.

[Pyser]

so when did the cup become THE cup? and when did they start engraving teams and player names?