2015 NBA Offseason Thread

[miami_fan]

Reggie Jackson well done. 5 yrs $80 mil.

[Groundhog]

Sheesh, that's a lot of coin for RJ.

Brandon Bass to the Lakers. Lakers really fighting for that 8 seed/late lottery pick territory.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Sheesh, that's a lot of coin for RJ.

Brandon Bass to the Lakers. Lakers really fighting for that 8 seed/late lottery pick territory.

No point in tanking since they most likely won't have their 1st rounder

[Brian Swartz]

I think they are still in the lottery, but it all depends. Seems that more and more injuries tell the tale of how a season goes.

[Danny]

I agree but their pick is only top protected. I don't think they were bad enough to do that.

[nol]

Who in the West are the Lakers definitely better than?

Blazers? Timberwolves? I can't think of any others, so that's a lot of leapfrogging due to injuries that would have to happen.

[Groundhog]

Even the Timberwolves might be a wildcard. They are probably too young still, but if everyone stays healthy (Rubio in particular), Wiggins develops, and Towns plays like a #1 pick used to be expected to play, they could be something special sooner rather than later.

[Brian Swartz]

I think there's a number of teams that are quite uncertain, the Lakers definitely being in that group.

[Danny]

Ultimately the Lakers future will depend on Russell, Randle and Clarkson. If those three show superstar / all star potential and Kobe retires, the Lakers become a more desirable destination for the prime free agents. Last year and this year their young talent is still unproven and Kobe still being there is a negative for incoming free agents that want to be the man.

[stevew]

Lots of dollars for Reggie. They should name a candy bar after him...


(Nobody will get this joke)

[nol]

Yeah I wouldn't even say the Lakers are definitely better than the Timberwolves considering Minnesota was somewhat competitive before Rubio was injured. Just curious as to who the uncertain teams the Lakers (8 games behind the 3rd-worst team in the West last year) were supposed to pass on their way to playoff contention. Last year's playoff teams, minus Portland, plus Oklahoma City, Phoenix, and Utah, are definitely better than them.

[Groundhog]

Really impressed by Stanley Johnson's first two summer league showings. He's got an impressive array of moves, a nice touch around the hoop, and looks to take smaller defenders into the paint.

Winslow has been impressive too for different reasons. Not the same scorer as Johnson is currently, but he looks good out there and does a bit of everything - nice pass on the game-winning alley-oop inbound play.

I'd wager that right now both teams are pretty happy with the guys they brought in.

Charlotte are really focusing on the pick-and-pop with Kaminsky and he looks good from NBA three. The rest of his offensive game needs some work though, but as a pick and pop/roll big I think he'll be OK on one end of the court at least.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by stevew

Lots of dollars for Reggie. They should name a candy bar after him...


(Nobody will get this joke)

They overpaid for someone well past his prime...

[nol]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Really impressed by Stanley Johnson's first two summer league showings. He's got an impressive array of moves, a nice touch around the hoop, and looks to take smaller defenders into the paint.

Winslow has been impressive too for different reasons. Not the same scorer as Johnson is currently, but he looks good out there and does a bit of everything - nice pass on the game-winning alley-oop inbound play.

I'd wager that right now both teams are pretty happy with the guys they brought in.

Charlotte are really focusing on the pick-and-pop with Kaminsky and he looks good from NBA three. The rest of his offensive game needs some work though, but as a pick and pop/roll big I think he'll be OK on one end of the court at least.

Myles Turner has also looked pretty good. Before the draft, I didn't see enough of a difference between him and Porzingis for Turner + whatever you could get for trading down a few spots to not be a better value than just taking Porzingis 4th.

[JonInMiddleGA]

How bad did David West want out of Indiana?

About $10.5m worth of bad apparently.

David West will sign with San Antonio Spurs

[Brian Swartz]

Summer league impressions I don't think really tell all that much. Scrubs like Duncan and Durant struggled there. I generally wait until I see players adapting(or fail to adapt) to the grind of competing in the NBA before I make any conclusions about them.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Summer league impressions I don't think really tell all that much. Scrubs like Duncan and Durant struggled there. I generally wait until I see players adapting(or fail to adapt) to the grind of competing in the NBA before I make any conclusions about them.

Uhhh Kevin Durant scored 24 points per game in the summer league before his rookie season, and the Tim Duncan stuff is an apocryphal tale based on him being self-deprecating. The common retort is "Yeah but (some crappy player) did well in summer league and look where that got him," but when a player is thought to be good beforehand and does well in his first time against NBA competition, that can only help.

[Groundhog]

Summer league performances indeed don't mean squat in general, but I'm more interested to see how a guy gets his points. There are a lot of guys who get their points in college in ways that just won't work against NBA defenses. A lot of the softer stuff Kaminski does inside the 3pt arc for example just isn't going to work against most NBA bigs as he'll be forced away from the basket. He'll have to adjust and find ways to score against NBA defenses, which is probably the difference between him becoming a solid player vs. a guy just spotting up for 3s.

I haven't watched any of today's games, but from what I've seen Stanley Johnson is scoring NBA-type buckets, in a variety of ways. Winslow, open jumpers aside, isn't really - he's not taking it to the basket very strongly, and is a bit too finesse. But he stands out on both ends and makes smart plays.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

Uhhh Kevin Durant scored 24 points per game in the summer league before his rookie season, and the Tim Duncan stuff is an apocryphal tale based on him being self-deprecating. The common retort is "Yeah but (some crappy player) did well in summer league and look where that got him," but when a player is thought to be good beforehand and does well in his first time against NBA competition, that can only help.

The knock on Durant was that he couldn't rebound in his rookie summer league with the Sonics (8 in 137 mins which had him at the bottom of the summer league) and his shot selection with a 0.73 pts per fga (which was in the bottom 4% of all summer league player since 1993). His 2nd summer league he played one game with the same results getting 1 rebound in the game and going 7 for 21 from the floor.

There were questions if he could really lead the Sonics at the start because he never won a summer league game (0-5) and he seemed more concerned about team USA and his shoe deal at the time. You have to remember the Sonics/Thunder won 43 games in his first two seasons combined. He also got PJ Carlisimo fired.

[Groundhog]

The Sonics were also playing him at SG if I remember correctly...

[Groundhog]

Okafor doing about what you'd expect in his game today so far - making baskets, missing FTs. I watched Sixers 2nd round draft pick from last year Jordan McRae play in the Aussie league last season. He was real selfish on the court offensively - not uncommon for young fringe NBA prospects in our league - and looks like he's got that same mentality against summer league competition.

[Neon_Chaos]

Is that the sound of Coach Pop's mic drop?

[nol]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

The knock on Durant was that he couldn't rebound in his rookie summer league with the Sonics (8 in 137 mins which had him at the bottom of the summer league) and his shot selection with a 0.73 pts per fga (which was in the bottom 4% of all summer league player since 1993). His 2nd summer league he played one game with the same results getting 1 rebound in the game and going 7 for 21 from the floor.

There were questions if he could really lead the Sonics at the start because he never won a summer league game (0-5) and he seemed more concerned about team USA and his shoe deal at the time. You have to remember the Sonics/Thunder won 43 games in his first two seasons combined. He also got PJ Carlisimo fired.

Really? I totally forgot that Kevin Durant's teams sucked to start his career. I just assumed that the Sixers were the only team to ever play a bunch of young players and suck

I think Kevin Pelton once did a statistical analysis where he concluded you could put roughly equal weight on a rookie's college stats and summer league stats. In Durant's case, you could probably balance out his summer league rebounding with the fact he got 11-12 rebounds per game as a college freshman while also using his percentages from college to say that he'd be a better shooter than the summer league numbers indicated. But yeah, big difference between struggling in the summer league and showing that you won't necessarily dominate the NBA in your first season.

For my original point about Myles Turner, it's encouraging to see that someone billed as a stretch 5 indeed does look comfortable making NBA threes against actual competition while moving well enough to block a bunch of shots. Nobody is saying that these players will do just as well in the actual season; it's clear that the league is much more competitive from top to bottom than it was even 10 years ago and the opportunities for a rookie to come in and average 20 are few and far between.

[Simbo Klice]

I would think that guys like Durant (who know they're already a major part of the team's plans going forward) approach summer league with a very different mindset than most draftees. Most of those guys are playing for minutes in their rookie year, Durant got the starting job when he shook David Stern's hand.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

Really? I totally forgot that Kevin Durant's teams sucked to start his career. I just assumed that the Sixers were the only team to ever play a bunch of young players and suck

I know you are joking but at the same time the Sonics/Thunder made the most of trades (Jeff Green, Delante West and Wally-Z for an aging Ray Allen). So they put all their picks into multiple positions while someone keeps drafting size.

I mean we were looking at a Thunder team with players with 2 or less experience named Durant, Green, Harden, Ibaka, Maynor, Mullens, Westbrook and a 3 year experiences Sefolosha. You know those names(and they won 51 games). I don't think the 76ers will every have a set of youth like that because I don't believe in Heinke. What we saw with OKC was a team that was built on scorers for the most part while Philly is content with having ten 2nd round picks to fill out a roster around their 3 centers in the past 2 drafts.

That offensive firepower from the 2nd round isn't enough to support 3 bigs. major difference with the way they both decided to go with youth.

[BishopMVP]

Re: Stanley Johnson/Myles Turner - Top 5 recruits with obvious NBA bodies who struggled offensively under Rick Barnes and Sean Miller looking good in an NBA system? Shocking!

I'm not even going to bother reiterating myself about Hinkie (players develop, trades will happen, etc), but I need to point out Ray Allen made 3 All-Star games and put up the 3 highest eFG%'s of his career in the 5 years he was in Boston. Heck of a lot better than Jeff Green over those 5 years. Sczerbiak and West were gone within half a year (for Adrian Griffin, Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble), and we also got Big Baby Davis in that deal. Presti lucked into a generational talent at #2, kept sucking so they picked future All-NBA players at 3 & 5, and got lucky that a project big they drafted actually had an awesome work ethic and developed beyond anyone's expectations. And they still only won all of 6 games more than the 76ers have in the past two seasons in Kevin Durant's first two years.

[stevew]

Cavs attempting to deal for Joe Johnson. If my math is correct, we'd need to deal Heywood, Joe Harris, and another 8.5Million to make it happen. Wondering if that kind of money might be out there for JR Smith via a S&T.

[murrayyyyy]

Not sure who played under Miller. Wasn't he at Xavier or Dayton? Harden went to ASU and was seen by plenty of people as a poor pick at the time. Westbrook was at UCLA on that team that scored 40 a game un Ben Hollend (sp).

Correct on the few games being won but this is when they made the jump and personally I think the 76ers are 3 years away from a 40 wins season in a best case scenario. The 76ers need all 3 of their centers to play well to equal what harden, west and durant provided. Then you use your other first rounders on foreign kids who aren't with you or 10 second round picks. I can't think of another team who tried this formula. By the time you get some talent, Noel will be leaving.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Cavs attempting to deal for Joe Johnson. If my math is correct, we'd need to deal Heywood, Joe Harris, and another 8.5Million to make it happen. Wondering if that kind of money might be out there for JR Smith via a S&T.

The deal/math that I saw bandied about over the weekend was Heywood + Varejao

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The deal/math that I saw bandied about over the weekend was Heywood + Varejao

I'd do that in a second, but Andy is really close with LeBron I thought.

Also if LeBron decided to play in SA for the minimum I wouldn't even be mad. It would be the correct basketball decision

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Not sure who played under Miller. Wasn't he at Xavier or Dayton? Harden went to ASU and was seen by plenty of people as a poor pick at the time. Westbrook was at UCLA on that team that scored 40 a game un Ben Hollend (sp).

UCLA ran a specific offense and Westbrook came out of UCLA raw and a year too early. He basically started one year, his SO year.

Sean was at Xavier, his brother Archie, is at Dayton

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Not sure who played under Miller. Wasn't he at Xavier or Dayton? Harden went to ASU and was seen by plenty of people as a poor pick at the time. Westbrook was at UCLA on that team that scored 40 a game un Ben Hollend (sp).

Correct on the few games being won but this is when they made the jump and personally I think the 76ers are 3 years away from a 40 wins season in a best case scenario. The 76ers need all 3 of their centers to play well to equal what harden, west and durant provided. Then you use your other first rounders on foreign kids who aren't with you or 10 second round picks. I can't think of another team who tried this formula. By the time you get some talent, Noel will be leaving.

Sorry, the Miller/Barnes comment had nothing to do with the second paragraph but about the two semi-realistic players I was hoping the Celtics would get for months (although considering Barnes couldn't even make the Sweet 16 with Durant, I can see where the confusion came in.)

I guess I really do need to reiterate myself. The 76ers do not plan to build around Noel, Embiid and Okafor. They hope to build around one, maybe two of them, but they don't know which ones and they lose absolutely nothing by waiting a few months to see who looks best and if Embiid is healthy. (In fact, under the perverse NBA system it actually benefits them to miss the playoffs by a lot than a little.)

I won't go quite so far as to say that the only way all 3 of Noel, Embiid and Okafor will be on Philly a year from today is if Embiid doesn't step on an NBA court, but I'd put the odds under 10%. As it is they are in asset accumulation mode regardless of positional fit. A very extreme version that places absolutely zero emphasis on present day value, but no different than what Danny Ainge was doing before he traded those ill-fitting assets for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, what Daryl Morey was doing before he used those patchwork assets to trade for James Harden, or what a Danny Ainge or Ryan McDonagh is doing now.

And yeesh, some of those shortsighted moves by other teams look just as bad now as they did at the time. As bad as the 76ers/Kings deal was, the Pelicans one might top it. Imagine how much brighter New Orleans' future would be if they had Nerlens Noel and Elfrid Payton next to Anthony Davis instead of Jrue Holiday. Imagine if Cleveland had let Andrew Wiggins play a few months next to LeBron instead of forcing a trade right away that would've been on the table at the trade deadline.

[nol]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I know you are joking but at the same time the Sonics/Thunder made the most of trades (Jeff Green, Delante West and Wally-Z for an aging Ray Allen). So they put all their picks into multiple positions while someone keeps drafting size.

I mean we were looking at a Thunder team with players with 2 or less experience named Durant, Green, Harden, Ibaka, Maynor, Mullens, Westbrook and a 3 year experiences Sefolosha. You know those names(and they won 51 games). I don't think the 76ers will every have a set of youth like that because I don't believe in Heinke. What we saw with OKC was a team that was built on scorers for the most part while Philly is content with having ten 2nd round picks to fill out a roster around their 3 centers in the past 2 drafts.

Ray Allen had three more All-Star appearances in him and played more games than Szczerbiak and West combined after the trade, and obviously Jeff Green wasn't the greatest #5 pick in the world. From a players in-players out standpoint, that trade was a disaster, but without it they wouldn't have gotten those high picks and Durant (who will probably go down as the best player in NBA history to ever play for a 60-loss team) wouldn't have gotten those reps at being the main guy from the start.

Oklahoma City was built on drafting the best player available. Westbrook and Harden obviously didn't have great synergy together, but both are so good that the talent overruled fit. Having some grandiose roster-building plan for your team that won 20-25 games the year before is what leads teams to do stuff like draft Wes Johnson over DeMarcus Cousins because they already have a power forward but not a small forward. Lamenting that the Sixers drafted Okafor instead of some guard for fit's sake is akin to being pissed the Thunder drafted Harden instead of Jordan Hill in 2009 because they already had perimeter scorers.

[murrayyyyy]

Well it has been 2 years since a team has used this line...

Bucks president: Without arena funding, team will move to 'Las Vegas' - CBSSports.com

At an informational hearing held by the state Legislature's Joint Finance Committee, Feigin said the Bucks owners' purchase agreement for the team includes a provision that construction of a new arena start in 2015. If that does not occur, he said the NBA will buy back the team for a $25 million profit and move them to "Las Vegas or Seattle."

Does this mean I have to start watching more Bucks games this year?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I guess I really do need to reiterate myself. The 76ers do not plan to build around Noel, Embiid and Okafor. They hope to build around one, maybe two of them, but they don't know which ones and they lose absolutely nothing by waiting a few months to see who looks best and if Embiid is healthy. (In fact, under the perverse NBA system it actually benefits them to miss the playoffs by a lot than a little.)

Here's the problem. They want to keep Okafor (makes sense), but Embiid has 0 value right now and Noel is finally healthy - but going to be an RFA in 2 seasons. The best offer they got for Noel this offseason (from Boston) was Noel and #3 for Smart and #16+#28. That's like 40 cents on the dollar for Noel. You think they will get more next offseason when he's one season from RFA? I guess it's possible, but they may be in a position where they just can't trade Embiid or Noel over the next season+. Then what do you do as these guys start hitting RFA?

I won't go quite so far as to say that the only way all 3 of Noel, Embiid and Okafor will be on Philly a year from today is if Embiid doesn't step on an NBA court, but I'd put the odds under 10%. As it is they are in asset accumulation mode regardless of positional fit. A very extreme version that places absolutely zero emphasis on present day value, but no different than what Danny Ainge was doing before he traded those ill-fitting assets for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, what Daryl Morey was doing before he used those patchwork assets to trade for James Harden, or what a Danny Ainge or Ryan McDonagh is doing now.

Again, the only way this stuff works is if the right guys are available, teams are in cap trouble and are willing to take your poo poo platter. The problem the Sixers have right now is timing. After this current offseason, the cap is going to begin to shoot up to where it will go from $72 mil now to over $90 mil in 17/18. No one is going to deal a superstar for a poo-poo platter when they see $20 mil of cap space in the next two offseasons. Next, the Sixers have a couple picks that have some value, but the best offer they can muster right now (without trading Okafor) is Noel and either the Lakers or their own pick. I'm not sure what star that lands you given the cap is shooting up like a rocket and every team is going to have max money soon.

Imagine how much brighter New Orleans' future would be if they had Nerlens Noel and Elfrid Payton next to Anthony Davis instead of Jrue Holiday. Imagine if Cleveland had let Andrew Wiggins play a few months next to LeBron instead of forcing a trade right away that would've been on the table at the trade deadline.

I'm not sure how New Orleans is better with Payton and Noel than Holiday and Asik. Peyton is a bigtime project that may pay out down the line, but his season was atrocious. He shot 42.5% FG, 26% 3s, 55% FT, had 6.5 APG and 2.5 TOPG (PER of 13.7). I can't think of a worse PG to pair with Davis. Holiday came on at the end of the season and finished with a 45% FG, 38% 3s, 85.5% FT, had 7 APG to 2 TOPG (PER of 18.8) despite dealing with a bunch of injuries. Noel would be a nice asset, but he's no more valuable than Asik if you want to win now. Same goes for Cleveland: Wiggins is a nice player, but Love on a 5-year deal gives Cleveland a better chance to win the next 2 years than Wiggins. Everyone loves "assets" in the NBA, but at some point you need to try and win. The Cavs would have a "brighter future" if they traded Love, Thompson and Irving for Wiggins, Oladipo, Payton and 2 lottery picks, but they would be killing their chance at a title window.

Are you sure Davis would have wanted to extend in New Orleans if the team had Elfrid Payton and Noel instead of Holiday and Asik? It's going to take atleast another season or two before those guys are ready and I'm pretty sure they don't make the playoffs this year.

Originally Posted by nol

Lamenting that the Sixers drafted Okafor instead of some guard for fit's sake is akin to being pissed the Thunder drafted Harden instead of Jordan Hill in 2009 because they already had perimeter scorers.

OKC hit the jackpot in back-to-back drafts before the Harden pick. In 2007 and 2008, OKC selected Durant, Green, Westbrook and Ibaka. That's insane drafting and gave them a ton of flexibility in the Harden draft as they had starters at PG, SF and PF. Comparing the Sixers after taking Noel, Embiid and Saric to what OKC did is silly. My issue with Philly is taking Embiid right after taking Noel. That's two very injury-prone bigs who do the same thing. I think the best move would have been to either trade down from Embiid, move the pick for a better current player or take another player with less risk. Maybe you trade down a bit and take a project guard (like Exum or Peyton) and start taking your lumps with a plan that could work if everything plays out (ie, Exum, Parker and Noel forming some kind of nucleus). But, at the end of the day, the quality of player after pick 2 has just not been in the draft the past 2-3 seasons to make tanking justified - which is another risk of this strategy.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

Oklahoma City was built on drafting the best player available. Westbrook and Harden obviously didn't have great synergy together, but both are so good that the talent overruled fit. Having some grandiose roster-building plan for your team that won 20-25 games the year before is what leads teams to do stuff like draft Wes Johnson over DeMarcus Cousins because they already have a power forward but not a small forward. Lamenting that the Sixers drafted Okafor instead of some guard for fit's sake is akin to being pissed the Thunder drafted Harden instead of Jordan Hill in 2009 because they already had perimeter scorers.

But they didn't draft the best available player. In 08 draft (Westbrook) they passed on Mayo and Bro-pez were higher on most most mock draft. Most mocks had them taking Bro-pez, Batum, Ibaka, Mbah a Moute, Richard Hendrix and Reggie Williams. They instead went with Russell and took Ibaka with Batum still on the board.

In 09 it was the Evans-Harden debate since they had their PG and would pass on Rubio who most mocks had higher in the ratings. (Which ultimately ended up with 10 mins of draft hilarity at 5-6 for the Wolves). They got lucky on the coin flip but it was set up by the previous draft.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Well it has been 2 years since a team has used this line...

Bucks president: Without arena funding, team will move to 'Las Vegas' - CBSSports.com

At an informational hearing held by the state Legislature's Joint Finance Committee, Feigin said the Bucks owners' purchase agreement for the team includes a provision that construction of a new arena start in 2015. If that does not occur, he said the NBA will buy back the team for a $25 million profit and move them to "Las Vegas or Seattle."

Does this mean I have to start watching more Bucks games this year?

I would not be disappointed to see the Bucks move to Seattle and the Timberwolves switch to the Eastern Conference.

[molson]

Well shit, the Bucks have certainly lived up to their end of the deal, 2 playoff series wins in almost 25 years, it's time the taxpayers shell out for that kind of basketball excellence.

[nol]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

But they didn't draft the best available player. In 08 draft (Westbrook) they passed on Mayo and Bro-pez were higher on most most mock draft.

These players have played 7 NBA seasons - Westbrook has shown himself to be the best player available regardless of what some random mock draft thought.

Harden and Westbrook both play the exact same role on offense, and I can guarantee you most NBA personnel are thinking in those terms rather than what position they show up as on 2K. Not to mention how many people have complained over the years that Westbrook isn't even a good fit next to Durant.

Originally Posted by Arles

I'm not sure how New Orleans is better with Payton and Noel than Holiday and Asik. Peyton is a bigtime project that may pay out down the line, but his season was atrocious. He shot 42.5% FG, 26% 3s, 55% FT, had 6.5 APG and 2.5 TOPG (PER of 13.7). I can't think of a worse PG to pair with Davis. Holiday came on at the end of the season and finished with a 45% FG, 38% 3s, 85.5% FT, had 7 APG to 2 TOPG (PER of 18.8) despite dealing with a bunch of injuries. Noel would be a nice asset, but he's no more valuable than Asik if you want to win now.

Because Peyton and Noel make $17 million less per year than Holiday and Asik. That's surely enough money to find another player or two who would more than make up the difference.

Originally Posted by Arles

OKC hit the jackpot in back-to-back drafts before the Harden pick. In 2007 and 2008, OKC selected Durant, Green, Westbrook and Ibaka. That's insane drafting and gave them a ton of flexibility in the Harden draft as they had starters at PG, SF and PF. Comparing the Sixers after taking Noel, Embiid and Saric to what OKC did is silly.

Right, because the Sixers' players are 19-21 years old while the Oklahoma City players have hit their prime. Westbrook led the league in turnovers and shot under 40% his rookie year. It took the better part of two seasons before people stopped worrying that OKC had blown the Harden pick.

Drafting Durant was perhaps the easiest pick in history. It's not like Seattle even thought Durant was their guy all along and would have tried to trade up to no. 1 if they thought Portland was going to take him; they were fully prepared to grab whoever was there at no. 2 and celebrate their lottery luck. All the other picks took longer than a year or two for people to say whether they had hit the jackpot or not.

It goes without saying that Philadelphia is less likely to become a juggernaut than Oklahoma City because they haven't gotten any breaks in the form of moving up in the lottery or the players that were available. If Embiid wasn't hurt in pre-draft workouts, they'd have had Wiggins with the 3rd pick. The teams that owed them lottery picks this year tanked below even their most pessimistic preseason expectations. Even then, they're still on a better trajectory than most teams in the league.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by nol

It goes without saying that Philadelphia is less likely to become a juggernaut than Oklahoma City because they haven't gotten any breaks in the form of moving up in the lottery or the players that were available. If Embiid wasn't hurt in pre-draft workouts, they'd have had Wiggins with the 3rd pick. The teams that owed them lottery picks this year tanked below even their most pessimistic preseason expectations. Even then, they're still on a better trajectory than most teams in the league.

But isn't that the biggest issue with their strategy? You need a lot of luck. You need to not only do well in the lottery, but also do so at a time when there are strong players in the draft.

I'm still not against what Philly is doing, I just think it has its share of risks.

[nol]

Everything's got a risk: even among the teams that 'won' free agency, the Mavericks are counting on a guy 4 months removed from tearing his Achilles to make them a playoff threat and the Spurs aren't going to be as well-equipped to ride out an injury to one of their starters as they were last year.

Philadelphia has gotten minimal luck and still has 3 of the top 10 under-23 prospects in the league. The players who have played do seem to develop with them (or at least overachieve relative to their projected level of talent), and they've certainly earned some leeway with Embiid's recovery given how Noel played.

[RainMaker]

They have 3 Centers who can't play with each other. Noel is nice but has a ceiling due to his lack of offense. Okafor is built for where the league was 15 years ago. And Embiid is about to miss his 2nd straight season after he goes under the knife again for an injury that just won't heal right (which is never good for a young big man).

It's a league where shooting is of increasing importance as well as wings who can play both sides of the court. Philly doesn't have any of those.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They have 3 Centers who can't play with each other. Noel is nice but has a ceiling due to his lack of offense. Okafor is built for where the league was 15 years ago. And Embiid is about to miss his 2nd straight season after he goes under the knife again for an injury that just won't heal right (which is never good for a young big man).

It's a league where shooting is of increasing importance as well as wings who can play both sides of the court. Philly doesn't have any of those.

It seems kinda early to make these grand pronouncements about three very talented players. No one thought Blake Griffin would develop a jump shot two years in either, and he did that just fine. Who is to know what these players will end up doing?

I agree with you that right now, things don't look so hot, but it's silly to speak in absolutes about their careers right now, especially when two of them have yet to play an NBA game, and the third played much of his first actual playing season still recovering from his own college injury.

[Groundhog]

Celtics trade Gerald "he's still in the league?" Wallace for David Lee. Good move for Boston.

[RainMaker]

I'm not saying they aren't talented, just saying they are all Centers. In a league where 3-point shooting is of the most importance, they haven't gotten anyone who can excel in that area.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Does this mean I have to start watching more Bucks games this year?

Nah, Boss Walker is for an arena deal so it will get done.

A few years ago I wouldn't have cared, but I really like the new ownership and direction of the team.

Vegas and Seattle need not get their hopes up too much.

[stevew]

Cavs got Mo Williams back.

When does this Haywood chip go away, and I'm assuming that we have a move lined up for a trade exception but are first exhausting all deals where Haywood can be combined with other guys.

[stevew]

2 expansion teams would be a good way to keep the cap in check and to add 30 more high paying jobs.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm not saying they aren't talented, just saying they are all Centers. In a league where 3-point shooting is of the most importance, they haven't gotten anyone who can excel in that area.

Yet. These are assets which could be traded for players who can do that.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by stevew

2 expansion teams would be a good way to keep the cap in check and to add 30 more high paying jobs.

Well or they could just poo-poo in the face of all other leagues by doing this.

Report: NBA Players' Union Plans To Fund Retired Players' Health Care