Trump's Immigration Reform

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Less than 20000 people total are in high-security federal prisons.

So?

[RainMaker]

I think he's nicely trying to say your idea is incredibly fucking stupid and expensive.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I don't know how much housing all of them will really cost, but I am pretty sure the reduction in illegal border crossing, over the long term, will more than make up for it.

If you don't know any of the numbers how do you know it will make up for it? What's it going to make up for?

[RainMaker]

What if we built the prison from Face/Off and all the boots they wore were magnetized and the floor was a big magnet you could turn on and off for each individual prisoner.

[miami_fan]

Two questions.

1.Thankfully something is being done combat antisemitism as I know this is a major problem. Is the administration going to do a separate one to combat the abuse that other religions suffer, just one "All Religious Abuse Matters" type to protect members of all religious communities or are members of other religious communities fair game?

2. Many of the organizers of these were Jewish. Can Jewish people be punished for antisemitism?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Atocep

If you don't know any of the numbers how do you know it will make up for it? What's it going to make up for?

Admittedly, just a swag.

But some promising nos. And I acknowledge that 1 week is not a trend, so we'll have to see after 6-12 months.

Fewer than 600 illegal crossings were recorded at the southern border Sunday — a dramatic plummet from the thousands regularly encountered at the height of the Biden administration’s border crisis.

Across the entire southern border, just 582 people were caught attempting illegal crossings, with not one of the nine sectors from Texas to California seeing more than 200 people, according to Fox News.

In Texas’ Del Rio sector — which regularly saw 4,000 daily crossings when the crisis peaked in December 2023 — just 60 people were caught on Sunday.

Less illegals, less processing, less temp housing for them etc. Pretty good guess it'll be cheaper in long run.

[JPhillips]

Let's say a quarter of inmates in high-security are illegal immigrants, why is the plan to build capacity for 6 times that many people?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Let's say a quarter of inmates in high-security are illegal immigrants, why is the plan to build capacity for 6 times that many people?

Per my original statement ...

Originally Posted by Edward64

Full text is not out, so want to read the details.

Article doesn't state what I read elsewhere that it will be for illegals where there's a problem sending them back (e.g. their country won't accept them). Sounds good to me.

Again, details is not out but from what I've read in various places, it is to house those where their countries will not take them back.

And we do not know if those already in prison will go there (or how many).

My speculation (and we're all speculating right now) ...

1. the worst that we cannot send back will go there but the majority of those we want to send back, will be sent back (source: see Colombia)
2. It will also likely be a temp internment/prison camp for those in process of being sent back. And no one knows the numbers.
3. For those that are stuck in limbo (e.g. country won't take them back), it'll be far less than your speculation

And if there just isn't enough space or capacity to build more, then they stay in regular prisons (or some other camp), reserving the worst of the worst for Guantanamo. So no, I wouldn't waste any concerns for the worst that preyed on America, especially those that have already been convicted. Wrong group to worry about.

Question - why are you so worried about those illegals in prison? Is it really primarily because of the cost or is there another reason?

[Lathum]

at this point why not just execute them, or is that too inhumane?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I look forward to all the lawsuits regarding Trump's national emergency, illegal immigration etc. executive orders and their execution. Rooting for Trump on illegal immigration policies but definitely understand if SCOTUS believes some/all of it are an overreach.

Below WSJ article popped up on my feed. Relatively short but it clarified how Trump hopes to proceed through the courts.

Watch it all but if not, first half talked about background of birthright. The interesting part of the last third that talk about the process to SCOTUS ...

... and how even if its in-progress through the courts, it could still be implemented until SCOTUS rules. So wouldn't be surprised if the Trump team plays defense/delays for a while.

[Lathum]

The most insane shit about all of this is none of it actually comes from Trump. He is a rubber stamp for the worst actors out there.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Lathum

at this point why not just execute them, or is that too inhumane?

Just execute everyone brown. Sure, not all of them are terrorists, but not all of them were building Edward's house either.

[Ghost Econ]

It took 9 days for Edwards to be ok with Camps for people of color. I had 13 in the pool.

[Edward64]

FTFY

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

It took 9 days for Edwards to be ok with Camps for illegal people of any color that have committed bad crimes. I had 13 in the pool.

No problem in being ok with internment/prison camps for illegals that have committed pretty bad crimes. Take for instance, below.

Mugshots of suspected members of the violent Venezuelan Tren de Aragua gang appear over a blurred image of an arrest of an alleged gang member in Denver.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

It took 9 days for Edwards to be ok with Camps for people of color. I had 13 in the pool.

It is interesting watching how quick people talk themselves into concentration camps.

[PilotMan]

Maybe someone can convince trump to just annex Cuba and turn the whole thing into a penal colony for the US? Get those people out of here (and into Cuba, who cares, they wouldn't be here)!

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Maybe someone can convince trump to just annex Cuba and turn the whole thing into a penal colony for the US? Get those people out of here (and into Cuba, who cares, they wouldn't be here)!

Can't annex Cuba because it's too "diverse."

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It is interesting watching how quick people talk themselves into concentration camps.

lock

“Rationalization is an attempt to justify questionable or corrupt acts using reasonable-seeming explanations,” he said.

Lennon described seven main categories of rationalization, beginning with denial of injury, thinking no one is really going to be harmed; denial of responsibility, believing one has no choice in carrying out an action and is therefore not responsible; and denial of victim, believing those harmed are terrible people and get what they deserve.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

This is bound to happen over and over and over again.

3 Puerto Ricans were detained in Milwaukee and taken to an immigration detention center, according to Telemundo.

The family members - a toddler, his mother, and his grandmother - were released after showing IDs, including birth certificates.

— BNO News Live (@BNODesk) January 29, 2025

They were released with no transportation and had to pay for a ride away from the facility. They were detained because they had the nerve to speak Spanish in public and the officers refused to talk with them about their citizenship status prior to arriving at the detainment center even though they attempted to communicate in English. They were born in Puerto Rico and are all US citizens.

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by Edward64

FTFY



No problem in being ok with internment/prison camps for illegals that have committed pretty bad crimes. Take for instance, below.

[/indent]

Literally how do you think the Nazis started?They said the camps were only for the worst. Then they got more lax because it was "too hard" to ship out the lesser ones. Then they just moved on to whole groups of people. Literally just listen to Richard Evans's trilogy and it becomes painfully obvious that his has literally been the playbook for the last decade. Or don't because if someone has an ounce of intelligence it becomes too depressing within an hour, and that's even before they get into power.

[Ksyrup]

He's already talking about sending US prisoners to overseas penal colonies as a cost-saving measure. Just lump them all in with immigrants and ship 'em out!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hmm ... that just gave me an idea.

for every criminal we have to repatriate, we send one u.s. prisoner along as a restocking fee.

[Ksyrup]

You mean de-stocking fee?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

Literally how do you think the Nazis started?They said the camps were only for the worst.

Isn't the differences (1) Germans said the Jews were the worst and in this situation, the below really, really are the worst and (2) the Jews ended up in gas chamber? Guantanamo is no Club Med, but it isn't even close to Auschwitz. If you don't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

Do you really have an issue with deporting them, and if their countries do not take them, keep them in Guantanamo? If some illegal Jews today really did do below list, sure I'm all for sending them to Guantanamo. Equal opportunity for the worst.

The violent gang members and child predators heading home as ICE collects over 1,000 illegal migrants in a day | Daily Mail Online

Among these were at least 16 Tren de Aragua members, the official shared.

Images of their arrests and descriptions of their rap sheets shared exclusively with DailyMail.com reveal uniquely chilling charges and photos of some criminals apprehended in the last 24 hours.

Their charges include child pornography, child solicitation, child abuse, attempted murder, negligent homicide, drug distribution and aggravated assault and more.

Hyun Woo, a South Korean citizen, was arrested after being convicted of nine counts of child pornography possession.

In Chicago ICE arrested Guatemalan Alexander Pascual-Pedro who was convicted previously of solicitation to meet a child.

With that said, your counter may be "but not all of them are that bad and they'll be sent to Guantanamo too".

Yes, likely. And that's why I said ...

For all others, no problem holding them there but we do need to make sure it is livable and temporary while working to send them back.

I am concerned about the others. Those who came in illegally, didn't do anything else bad, were picked up, and their country doesn't want them back. I can see Trump going overboard with those.

[Ghost Econ]

No, it's literally called learning history. It starts by saying the worst of the worst so that once it becomes the "normal" ones no one gives a shit.

Nevermind that ICE is already detaining natural, US born American citizens.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

No, it's literally called learning history. It starts by saying the worst of the worst so that once it becomes the "normal" ones no one gives a shit.

2 questions for you.

Question - do you believe Guantanamo (and other internment/prison camps) will turn into an Auschwitz?

Question - is it correct that you don't really mind the worst being sent to Guantanamo (or do you object to that too?). You care about the slippery slope and how the others (not the worst) may be treated the same as the worst?

Nevermind that ICE is already detaining natural, US born American citizens.

I can think of numerous reasons why a citizen could be detained (and even handcuffed). It happens all the time outside of what we are talking about. It's to determine identification, to secure the person if there is aggressive behavior or flight risk, suspicious behavior etc.

And unlike some who will say this is illegal, it is not. Sure, there may be some egregious cases but the vast majority of detainment is within the law (e.g. suspect DWI, shoplifting, drunks at Disney etc.). The real questions are (1) why/rationale and was there (2) a timely resolution

And yes, a citizen with a bunch of illegals that ICE targeted to capture, will likely be detained and questioned. No problem there. Like this guy

Access Denied

One of the employees detained and questioned by ICE at a seafood wholesaler during an immigration raid in Newark, New Jersey, was a U.S. citizen and military veteran.

Newark Mayor Ras Baraka denounced the ICE raid, saying the military veteran "suffered the indignity of having the legitimacy of his military documentation questioned.”

Regarding the raid, ICE stated they “may encounter U.S. citizens while conducting field work and may request identification to establish an individual’s identity.”

The real question is how long it took from detainment to release (assuming he cooperated).

And if below is true, they should change the process and ask everyone for IDs. Equal opportunity deporting.

“It looked to me like they were specifically going after certain kinds of people — not every kind. Because they did not ask me for documentation for my American workers, Portuguese workers or white workers,” Janota told the station.

[RainMaker]

The Guantanamo thing is funny on two fronts. Biden actually wanted to do this and even contracted it out to a private company to build a prison. Obviously, Dems had to wait till he was out of office to care about that stuff again.

Then you have the complete imbeciles who think you can build a prison for 30,000 people on that land. You'd think maps were hard to find. Maybe they'll figure out how dumb it is after they get around to learning about Greenland.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The Guantanamo thing is funny on two fronts. Biden actually wanted to do this and even contracted it out to a private company to build a prison. Obviously, Dems had to wait till he was out of office to care about that stuff again.

Then you have the complete imbeciles who think you can build a prison for 30,000 people on that land. You'd think maps were hard to find. Maybe they'll figure out how dumb it is after they get around to learning about Greenland.

There are key differences.

1.) The Biden admin prepped the area to handle an influx of Haitian migrants in the aftermath of the earthquake in the event the number fleeing to the US became too much to handle.

2.) It didn't really get any further than that

3.) Biden actually had some progress toward resolving the remaining 9/11 cases and got closer than anyone thus far to emptying and closing it. Not enough, but there was progress there rather than the steps backwards we had during the first Trump term.

4.) You can't say Dems didn't care then when it was merely an idea and didn't happen vs something that's been proudly announced by an administration and is happening. The two things aren't remotely comparable.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Atocep

There are key differences.

1.) The Biden admin prepped the area to handle an influx of Haitian migrants in the aftermath of the earthquake in the event the number fleeing to the US became too much to handle.

2.) It didn't really get any further than that.

I know below are no name links but I’ve read others that say migrants were held there under Joe. There’s a WaPo article that may confirm but behind a paywall.

No doubt it won’t be at the level that Trump wants. But yeah, I believe it happened under Joe’s watch too, it was more than prepping.

(Links hosed post)

Today, 131* human rights organizations sent President Biden an open letter demanding the U.S. government stop indefinitely detaining refugees at Guantánamo Bay, abandon plans to expand the detention of Haitians fleeing violence, and allow asylum seekers who travel by boat to seek protection in the United States. Signatories include immigrant and refugee advocates, human rights experts, and Cuban and Haitian community organizations.

In the fall, Drop Site News published previously unreported details of the treatment of migrants at the MOC, the bureaucratic process of how migrants are detained, and the private prison companies profiting from the detention center. In August 2024, the Biden administration granted a private prison company a $163.4 million contract to run the facility.

"For decades, the Guantanamo migrant detention center has been the hallmark of the most inhumane, racist, and brutal U.S. policies against people seeking refuge," said Jesse Franzblau, senior policy analyst with the National Immigrant Justice Center. "The Biden administration could have shut down the facility but tragically renewed and entered into new contracts to keep it up and running."

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

There are key differences.

1.) The Biden admin prepped the area to handle an influx of Haitian migrants in the aftermath of the earthquake in the event the number fleeing to the US became too much to handle.

2.) It didn't really get any further than that

3.) Biden actually had some progress toward resolving the remaining 9/11 cases and got closer than anyone thus far to emptying and closing it. Not enough, but there was progress there rather than the steps backwards we had during the first Trump term.

4.) You can't say Dems didn't care then when it was merely an idea and didn't happen vs something that's been proudly announced by an administration and is happening. The two things aren't remotely comparable.

Dems tried to pass Trump's border bill last year. Kamala ran to the right of Trump on immigration by saying he was all talk and she would follow through with his plans. And the current messaging of the Democrats is that they were better at deporting people.

They kind of give mixed messages and don't seem to know what they believe or want.

In the first week, Trump removed 7,300 people. On average, Biden was removing 15,000 a week.

Under Biden 72% of ICE arrests were criminals. Under Trump it's dropped to around 50%.

Trump is removing less people and less criminals. These guys are terrible at everything. https://t.co/rytt6ONTTm

— Chris Murphy 🟧 (@ChrisMurphyCT) January 30, 2025

[flere-imsaho]

[Lathum]

Jesus.

[flere-imsaho]

I mean, the middle quote could have been written by Edward.

Jon, on the other hand, would say something like "and it's not enough - they should all just be lined up and shot immediately!"

[Edward64]

Nope. I take social media (TikTok, X, discord etc) with a grain of salt, always need to figure out fact from hysteria, hyperbole etc. I’d want to know the details, so I would have said “want to know more, link to non-TikTok, X source?’

[Atocep]

https://abcnews.go.com/538

This is why the polls on deportations are misleading. Ask people if they're in favor of deporting all illegal immigrants and it has positive support. Break the question down into more specifics and the only group with positive support is criminals.

[cuervo72]

but Jon says they're all criminals

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

but Jon says they're all criminals

Which even by the strictest of definitions isn't true. It isn't a crime at the state or federal level to come here legally and stay beyond any leave date. You're still subject to deportation but haven't committed any crime.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

https://abcnews.go.com/538

This is why the polls on deportations are misleading. Ask people if they're in favor of deporting all illegal immigrants and it has positive support. Break the question down into more specifics and the only group with positive support is criminals.

Immigration is similar to abortion. Democrats were terrified of bringing it up despite having a clear electoral advantage. One of many many own goals.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Immigration is similar to abortion. Democrats were terrified of bringing it up despite having a clear electoral advantage. One of many many own goals.

Huh? Every other commercial Democrats ran here (in Ohio at least) during election season was about abortion.

[Ghost Econ]

Obvious anecdotal, but my sister said she has 2 Hispanic kids in her kindergarten class and neither have been in 2 weeks. She spoke with the parents, one doesn't want to risk ICE detainment and the other said they are waiting for their passports to come in so they can have more proof of citizenship.

She said both are 100% natural born citizens along with the parents.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Huh? Every other commercial Democrats ran here (in Ohio at least) during election season was about abortion.

I'm talking about how they treated abortion before Dobbs. They were terrified of using it in ads despite a clear electoral advantage on the topic. Kind of like with immigration.

[cuervo72]

I mean, we think that's bad, sure, but that's a plus for Red America. Questionable that they want white kids educated, they certainly don't want brown ones.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

but Jon says they're all criminals

Here, let me help you with that, because it lacks a degree of nuance.

They're all criminals who should be subject to immediate execution upon confirmation of their illegal status, as should anyone who provides them aid or comfort.

I'd generously allow for a 30 day grace period for them to voluntarily exit, I'm not unreasonable.

[Edward64]

+1 ally for Trump in Latin America, good to see he's not pissing off everyone south of the border.

I'm thinking Guantanamo won't be the worst place for the "worst" illegals soon, and the Guantanamo overcrowding is solved. I wonder what Trump is offering Bukele in return, probably just money and BFF status?

I bet other western countries will consider this option. El Salvador can make this a nice cottage industry.

US strikes 'extraordinary' migrant deal with El Salvador to accept deportees from any country - including dangerous criminals | Daily Mail Online

Secretary of State Marco Rubio says El Salvador's president has offered to accept deportees from the U.S. of all nationalities as well as violent criminals now imprisoned in the United States.

'President Bukele agreed to take back all Salvadoran MS-13 gang members who are in the United States unlawfully. He also promised to accept and incarcerate violent illegal immigrants, including members of the Venezuelan Tren de Aragua gang, but also criminal illegal migrants from any country,' State Department spokesperson Tammy Bruce said in a statement.

Below is step too far though. IMO if you're a US citizen and you're a "worst", then you're our problem. If not, and your country of citizenship won't take you back, sure.

'And in an extraordinary gesture never before extended by any country, President Bukele offered to house in his jails dangerous American criminals, including U.S. citizens and legal residents,' Bruce added.

[JPhillips]

Bukele has made clear this is for a fee, so we're going to end up paying a lot more to house criminals than if we did it ourselves.

[Edward64]

Per his tweet. I assume he'll give a quantity discount like Costco.

The fee would be relatively low for the U.S. but significant for us, making our entire prison system sustainable.

We have offered the United States of America the opportunity to outsource part of its prison system.

We are willing to take in only convicted criminals (including convicted U.S. citizens) into our mega-prison (CECOT) in exchange for a fee.

The fee would be relatively low for… pic.twitter.com/HTNwtp35Aq

— Nayib Bukele (@nayibbukele) February 4, 2025

[JPhillips]

The fee plus transportation will certainly be more than housing them ourselves. He's also got to get a personal payout, I'm sure.

[miami_fan]

Happy 108th Anniversary to the passing of the Immigration Act of 1917?

Your memory and influence lives on.

Immigration Act of 1917 - Wikipedia

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

FWIW, I don't think this is necessarily broken down as a battle between both parties. History tells us that despite what is proclaimed on the Statue of Liberty, Americans as a whole are not really here for accepting your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, he wretched refuse of your teeming shore. or these, the homeless, tempest-tossed. I mean we will take those that fit those descriptors and those that fit the opposite of those descriptors at some point but historically we have consistently taken steps to ensure that is not the case. I am not saying this thinking is exclusive to any particular race, ethnicity, etc in this country. I am not saying that other countries don't act in a similar fashion. I say all that to say I don't see either party as necessarily exclusively pro or exclusively anti immigration.

Originally Posted by miami_fan

There is no need for the distinction. Our history is littered with examples of our lack of desire for both. I say that without assigning a value judgement. I don’t think that can be disputed.

Venezuelans in Florida angry at Trump TPS immigration move : NPR

[Ghost Econ]

I have no sympathy for them. They were told what would happen but thought they were special.

It is nice to know we haven't quite reached the "deputizing of everyday citizens" portion of our show in the South.

VIDEO: South Carolina man harrases Hispanic driver