FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Bottom-line. I'm not sure I can be a cop. I'd slap the sh*t out of majority of these folks.

Oh the shit police put up with every single shift is crazy. I trained BJJ with a few, all good people, in it to truly make a positive difference, and the stories were outrageous. I couldn't do the job and I am a very even keeled person.

One who was a K-9 officer, so he was all over Phoenix and usually in bad situations, said that on almost every call people come out of the woodwork, taunting them, threatening them, filming them trying to provoke a response. It's absolutely crazy.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

If you think cop body cams are fun, Ontario is apparently going to trial having youth soccer referees wear body cams....

WHAT?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

I went through a binge of the bodycam videos after Edward first posted that 20 something-year old drunk driver from Florida. Some of them are really entertaining, while others are sad. Addiction, mental health issues, homelessness, you name it. Some of these people never had a chance.

Whilst on the subject of YT, I've been pretty enamored with this channel. This guy does reporting in the craziest places and isn't very exploitative about it like many wannabe journalists.

Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan - YouTube

The SF and Philly videos... whoa

The Channel 5 guy is fantastic with some really thought provoking videos. Very good storyteller.

And yeah, some of the body cam stuff on youtube is 100% mental illness or addiction, but not all by a long shot. There are plenty of entitled douche bags who think they are smarter than the law, screw around, and find out.

As I said, i watch both sides of these things and the videos themselves are fascinating to me as is the youtube comments. You always hear about how different stops happen depending on the race of the person arrested, but I just don't see it in "most" of these videos. Usually, it's just the way the person acts that gets them in trouble.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

OTH here are some bodycam videos that shows you what cops have to put up with in (mostly) non-violent stuff. Think of it as "Cops" for traffic violations and stuff.

Most common cop saying: stop or stop resisting
Most common perp saying: I didn't do nothing/anything

Note to self. If a cop stops me, first word from me is: Don't talk to me, I want a lawyer.

Just a guess, but I'm going to say alcohol is the cause of 50%+ of these bodycams.

[RainMaker]

Body camera video shows Tallahassee Police Department Officer planting evidence in a DUI arrest.

The video shows Officer Oliver pouring out a sealed bottle of liquor and tossing it in Calvin Riley Sr.’s passenger seat before arresting Riley for a DUI. pic.twitter.com/bVZklLAXyC

— Our Tallahassee (@OurTallahassee) April 3, 2024

[Edward64]

I've seen several videos but none start-to-finish without some sort of MSM edits on the Dexter Reed shooting.

But from what I've read, Reed was stopped, didn't follow police orders and did seem to act suspiciously (rolled window up when told to keep it down and roll down back window), supposedly he fired first multiple times, the cops shot back.

To me, assuming Reed did fire first, it was a justified shooting. Many, if not majority, of 96 shots seem to be when the guy was still in the car. However, what doesn't seem justified is the continued shooting after the guy was outside, on the ground (video said one cop shot 3 more times but there may have been more).

Cops fired about 96 times over 41 seconds, killing Dexter Reed

[JPhillips]

96 shots in a residential area is absolutely insane.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I've seen several videos but none start-to-finish without some sort of MSM edits on the Dexter Reed shooting.

2024-0003052 - Civilian Office of Police Accountability

[Edward64]

Thanks. I looked at the videos of the 4 officers. I know they said the perp fired first and sounded like multiple shots, and although that is likely, all I heard were the shots, nothing obvious that the deceased actually pointed a weapon and shot at the LEOs.

Assuming that is confirmed, seems like a legit shooting to me. I would like to know the purpose of the stop, the videos started with 3-4 cops getting into a vehicle.

Good thing they had body cams but it would be great if they had "shoulder" cams. You could tell the LEOs were crouching or bent over and there wasn't a good angle in numerous sections.

[miami_fan]

Act I

Mississippi sheriff’s deputies accused of shoving guns in mouths of 2 Black men | AP News

Act II

How 6 Mississippi officers tried to cover up their torture of 2 Black men | AP News

Act III

Last of ex-Mississippi 'Goon Squad' officers who tortured 2 Black men is sentenced | AP News

[miami_fan]

Nornalized.

reuters.com

[Edward64]

When the police knock on the door and announced themselves, do not open the door with a weapon in your hand. See starting at about 3:45.

[IMG][/IMG]

[cuervo72]

Would be home invaders -- just yell SHERIFF'S OFFICE before breaking in, this should automatically disarm anyone inside!

[GrantDawg]

My BIL had a situation a couple of months ago. A guy had been riding slowly on their street, and the man living four doors down noticed him. The guy's tire went flat, and he pulled over across from the dude watching him, to start changing it. My BIL's neighbor then decided to pull his gun out and confront the guy. The guy said he was just turning around, and he lived a couple of roads over from there, but the neighbor said he believed he was casing the place to rob it. He made the kid leave with his tire scraping the ground

The kid went home, and his parents called the police. All this happened around 7pm. At 11:30pm, the police started banging on my BIL's door. It freaked him out a little, and scared his wife to death. He threw some paints on and went down to see who it was. He does normally carry, but he decided he would see who it was before he pulled the gun out, thankfully. When he opened the door, the cops had their weapons drawn and made him come out of the house showing his hands. They started a accusing him of pulling a gun on the kid, but he told them he had no idea what they were talking about. When he finally got them to tell him what address they were looking for, it ended up they were at the wrong house.

The next morning, my BIL called the Sherriff, who he just so happens to be friends with. As a matter of fact, he is the chaplin to both the jail and the hospital. He told him how insane ot was for the police to show up hours after an incident in the middle of the night and start banging on random doors. He never heard them identify themselves. If he had answered that door with his gun in his hand, that whole situation would have end tragically.

The Sherriff apologized over the phone, and in writing. Both deputies also wrote apologies, and they had an office wide meeting on the incident. If this had been anyone other than my BIL, I don't think any of that would have happened.

Want to know why I have a pretty low opinion on open carry? Because morons like my BIL's neighbor shows how dumb some of those that carry are. He got all excited because he got to play cowbow and scare some kid. He still claims that kid was casing the street, but people who are planning robberies don't generally call the police.

Want to know why I think we have a problem with police? This story. Those cops were purposely trying to put a scare in that old dude, and nearly killed an innocent man in the process.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He never heard them identify themselves.

This is what struck me about that video. Yeah, you yelled a couple of times while pounding on the door. How much of that simply reverberated down the corridor vs actually making it into the apartment? Also, if you've anywhere else but RIGHT NEXT TO THE DOOR, especially if you're already talking on the phone, you're not going to hear shit other than the loud pounding noise.

[dubb93]

So much wrong with that video.

But I guess I'll start with can we get all of those people who fed the cops complete horseshit arrested and charged with crimes. (the girl downstairs and the caller at the very least)

[Jas_lov]

The cop should be charged. If he raises the gun then shoot but he had the gun at his side.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

The cop should be charged. If he raises the gun then shoot but he had the gun at his side.

Well, yea, that's the obvious one. You can't knock on a door and shoot a legal gun owner for simply holding his gun when he answers it.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Would be home invaders -- just yell SHERIFF'S OFFICE before breaking in, this should automatically disarm anyone inside!

I guarantee his AF buddies have banged on that door or his dorm room door shouting POLICE only to laugh when he opened the door because ha, ha why would the police be banging at your door?!

On the negative side, that seems like the perfect plan for the State to come in and TAKE YOUR GUNS FROM YOU!

The state has done everything it can to remove restrictions from allowing law abiding citizens to carry their weapons. If the Second Amendment protects law-abiding citizens' right to self-defense as an inherent and inalienable right then law enforcement can't automatically be terrified every time they see someone carrying a gun and can't start blowing away legal gun owners when those gun owners are legally carrying their weapon especially when a law abiding patriot and citizen is exercising said right while carrying his weapon in a non threatening position inside his residence.

I have some sympathy for the police in this case. I have no clue how law enforcement protects themselves while also guaranteeing citizens their inalienable right. I suspect that some police officers will lose their life when the officer give the person he person on the other side the benefit of the doubt. But since we all live in Gaza, every knock on the door is a potential serial killer, and law enforcement has encouraged citizens to take our security and safety in our own hands, they have to come up with a plan for when they encounter law abiding citizens doing just that.

[RainMaker]

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott pardons Daniel Perry | The Texas Tribune

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott pardons Daniel Perry | The Texas Tribune

really no surprise there

[RainMaker]

If they were on the fence, the guy being a pedophile probably locked in that pardon.

[Ghost Econ]

I guess there were no black kids in this part of Missouri

https://www.tmz.com/2024/05/24/blind...ason-missouri/

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Nornalized.

reuters.com

Florida deputy who shot U.S. airman Roger Fortson is fired : NPR

OCSO General Order 04.01 – Response to Resistance, Section F.2.d. states, “Deadly force resistance is a subject’s hostile, attacking movements with or without a weapon that create a reasonable perception by the officer that the subject intends to cause and has the capability of causing death or great bodily harm to the officer or others.” The objective facts of the administrative investigation concluded that Mr. Fortson did not make any hostile, attacking movements, and therefore, the former deputy’s use of deadly force was not objectively reasonable under OSCO’s policy.

“This tragic incident should have never occurred,” said Okaloosa County Sheriff Eric Aden. “The objective facts do not support the use of deadly force as an appropriate response to Mr. Fortson’s actions. Mr. Fortson did not commit any crime. By all accounts, he was an exceptional airman and individual.”

[flere-imsaho]

I've read the bolded five times now and I still don't understand.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I've read the bolded five times now and I still don't understand.

Before I explain, here is my full disclosure. I spent seven years working at an Air Force detachment in Panama City, FL whose parent unit is located on Hurburt Field and spent at least one day a week during that time. My sister in law's brother in law spent the last nine years of his career being stationed between Hurburt Field and Eglin AFB and is currently a civil servant on Hurlburt. I did not know SrA Fortson but I do know several people who knew him well, knew of him on base, and what many of the feelings are about this incident on both bases.

Now on to the explanation. This is not just about another cop killing another black man. It is deeper than that for those that knew and loved SrA Fortson.

Here is the original statement from the sheriff's office the day after the incident.

OCSO News Release:
The Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office is investigating a fatal officer involved shooting that took place after a deputy made contact with an armed individual at an apartment off Racetrack Road late Friday afternoon.
A deputy responded to 319 Racetrack Road around 4:30 p.m. in reference to a call of a disturbance in progress.
Hearing sounds of a disturbance, he reacted in self defense after he encountered a 23-year old man armed with a gun and after the deputy had identified himself as law enforcement.
The man was taken to an area hospital where he succumbed to his injuries.
No deputies were injured.
Per standard protocol the deputy is placed on paid administrative leave pending the outcoming of a formal investigation and administrative review.

Run of the mill statement about officer shooting possible criminal. The highlighted in my own for future call back below.

Now, fast forward to Tuesday. It is now known that SrA Fortson was the victim and that officer was responding to a DV call in SrA Fortson's apartment Now the sheriff office's statement did not explicitly say that SrA Fortson was slapping a woman in his apartment that day. It did not explicitly say that SrA Fortson threatened the officer with the gun. But it was seen as implicit that SrA Fortson was slapping a woman in his apartment and threatened the officer at the door which is why he was shot dead. As we have heard, by all accounts so far, SrA Fortson is not someone the people who knew him believe to be a guy who beats women and points guns at cops. Emotions ran pretty high among attendees at the prayer vigil at the apartment building on Sunday and around the bases on Monday at those insinuations. It was why the initial calls were to clear his name and for the sheriff office to tell the truth about SrA Fortson. He, according to the people who knew him best, did not deserve to have his name associated with abusing women and pointing guns at cops. He did not deserve to be associated with committing crimes.

The following statement from the Sheriff himself is a reaction of those rising emotions.

Update May 7th, 2024:
Statement from Okaloosa County Sheriff Eric Aden on Fatal Officer Involved Shooting
All of us at the Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office are saddened about the fatal officer involved shooting over the weekend.
Late Friday afternoon, our deputy responded to a call of a disturbance in progress where he encountered an armed man. The deputy shot the man, who later succumbed to his injuries.
I immediately placed the deputy on administrative leave and have asked the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to conduct the investigation that is required in such incidents.
The State Attorney’s Office will also conduct an independent review.
At this time, we humbly ask for our community’s patience as we work to understand the facts that resulted in this tragic event.
Sheriff Eric Aden/Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office

Besides the obvious tone change, notice anything else about this statement what compared to the first one? Notice anything missing from this statement? What happened to "hearing sounds of a disturbance"? What happened to reacting in self defense?

Now fast forward again to the internal affairs investigation report. When the sheriff says that "The objective facts do not support the use of deadly force as an appropriate response to Mr. Fortson’s actions. Mr. Fortson did not commit any crime." not only is he addressing the big picture that SrA Fortson did not deserve to face deadly force. He is speaking specifically to the two issues that were unique to this case. The allegations of violence against women and threatening the officers. The allegations that SrA Fortson committed crimes. Why that is so important is because the report actually has the objective facts.

The objective facts as determined by the administrative investigation are:

The former deputy was dispatched to an in-progress physical disturbance at an apartment complex located at 319 Racetrack Road NW. Dispatch records confirm the location of the disturbance was reported to be taking place in Unit 1401.
On arrival at the apartment complex to which he was dispatched to, the former deputy met with an employee of the apartment complex who identified Unit 1401 as the location of the disturbance and relayed to the former deputy that there had been recent unreported disturbances at or around the same apartment.
The former deputy’s interaction with the apartment complex’s employee and all further actions were recorded by his body-worn camera.

Upon arriving at the door to Unit 1401, the former deputy listened for sounds of any disturbance inside the apartment. Hearing none, the former deputy knocked without announcing and listened for a response. When describing what he heard, the former deputy said he heard: “Something to the effect of it’s the f****** police.”

The former deputy knocked loudly two more times and announced “Sheriff’s Office” both of those times. The administrative investigation found that the former deputy knocked three times and announced his presence two times within approximately 40 seconds.

When Mr. Fortson opened the door, the former deputy stated he saw Mr. Fortson holding a firearm in his right hand. The firearm was pointed at the ground sufficiently enough for the former deputy to clearly see the rear face of the rear sight.

The former deputy confirmed Mr. Fortson did not physically resist him in any way, and the investigation concluded that Mr. Forston did not point the gun in the former deputy’s direction.

According to the objective facts, the officer did not hear sounds of a disturbance at the apartment when he arrived at the apartment door in direct contrast to what was in the statement from the 4th of May. According to the objective facts, the officer saw the gun in SrA Fortson's right hand and either the officer saw or he should have saw the rear face of the rear sight. Finally, according to the objective facts, the officer confirmed that SrA Fortson did not physically try to resist him in any way and the event did not meet the criteria for the use of deadly force. The only thing left was to clear SrA Fortson's name that had been sullied with the woman beater tag. Hopefully the Sheriff's statement that "Mr. Fortson did not commit any crime" will now do that.

[flere-imsaho]

Oh. My. God. The whole time I thought Fortson was the deputy's name. I'm a moron.

But, thank you for the clearly detailed explanation.

So, I guess my follow-up action is whether we'll see the deputy arrested for unlawfully killing a man?

[Edward64]

This one is crazy. It’s in Costa Rica but wonder how this would play out in the US with stand your ground, castle doctrine.

The shooter checked his weapon before the incident (okay to me). The weapon is then concealed (okay). The victim attacked the shooter first, seem to back away but arguably ready to strike again. That’s when he got shot.

So in the US, wouldn’t be surprised if he got off with minimal punishment, if at all.

I’m good with stand your ground, castle doctrine but this one seems a little too premeditated to me. Because the victim was so ready to punch the shooter, I wonder what has previously transpired in earlier confrontations.

Terrifying moment man shoots his neighbor nine times point-blank after heated argument in their front yard turns deadly | Daily Mail Online

[CrimsonFox]

it's like people are afraid of getting punched

[Atocep]

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...rd-police-say/

An off-duty, armed security guard shot and killed 17-year-old Hazrat Ali Rohani who was trying to exchange an airsoft gun to a Renton sporting goods store on Wednesday evening, according to police and the King County Medical Examiner.

The 51-year-old man shot the boy who, with two other teens, was walking toward a Big 5 Sporting Goods store in a strip mall on Grady Way, according to court documents released Friday.

He was booked into King County Jail on investigation of second-degree murder. A charging decision from prosecutors is expected June 10.

The man told Renton Police Department officers he believed the boys were going to rob the store.

The Seattle Times generally does not name suspects until they have been charged.

The two surviving teenagers told police they were going to the store to exchange or return a malfunctioning airsoft gun, as well as to get help with another airsoft gun they had.

The man had been waiting to pick up his son from a martial arts studio in the strip mall when he saw three people walk in front of his car toward the Big 5 Sporting Goods store, the documents said. Police said he told them he “conducts ‘overwatch'” at the strip mall because of crimes he’s witnessed in the parking lot.

The man said he saw one of the boys had what he believed to be a Glock, and believed the group was going to commit armed robbery, documents said.

He “felt like he did not have time to call 911, and that he had a duty to act to stop the individuals from hurting someone innocent, and to protect his son who was in the location next door,” police wrote in their report.

Police said the man told them he got out of his car and pointed his gun at the group, telling them to drop the gun and put their hands up, according to the documents. The teen who was holding the gun threw it to the side, the man told police.

According to surveillance footage, the man then pushed the teen to the ground and straddled him, pinning him down.

Police said the man told them that’s when he saw one of the other teenagers reach into his waistband. The man said he saw the victim grab the handle of a gun and believed he was going to pull it out and kill him.

The man then shot Rohani “numerous times,” court documents said. King County sheriff’s deputies were coincidentally in the parking lot and responded within seconds. Rohani died at the scene.

Statements from the surviving teenagers and surveillance camera footage contradict the man’s statement to police, according to court documents. One of the boys told police Rohani never removed the airsoft gun from his waistband.

Surveillance footage shows Rohani backing away from the man with his hands extended showing nothing in them. Rohani shows his left hand raised above his head and his right arm briefly lowering to his waist area.

“Immediately after [the victim] is seen, on video, with his hand on the waist area it is clear that he has been shot because he abruptly jerks his body away from [suspect] and falls to the ground,” police wrote in their report.

The teenagers told police they repeatedly yelled out to the man that the guns they had were BB guns. The man told police he believed the guns were real.

[Edward64]

Sounds like a mall cop wanting to be a hero.

Don’t airsoft guns have the red cap thingy?

[flere-imsaho]

Sounds like a "good guy with a gun".

[CrimsonFox]

Those kids were really really stupid to carry those guns around like that. Put them in a bag

[Passacaglia]

A couple nights ago in our suburb's downtown area, I saw at least 3 teenagers walking around with realistic-looking guns. I'm assuming water guns or something, but still, really dumb.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Those kids were really really stupid to carry those guns around like that. Put them in a bag

If someone makes the assumption that the teenagers with guns were going to rob the store, having the guns in a bag would not have made that much of a difference. Also, Washington is an open carry state. The assumption that them having a gun equals them going to rob the store is probably no longer a good automatic assumption to make.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

If someone makes the assumption that the teenagers with guns were going to rob the store, having the guns in a bag would not have made that much of a difference. Also, Washington is an open carry state. The assumption that them having a gun equals them going to rob the store is probably no longer a good automatic assumption to make.

um yes, if they were in a bag they would not be seen by skiuppy or anyone and if they placed the bag on the counter, no one behind the counter would immediately think they are here to rob me.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

um yes, if they were in a bag they would not be seen by skiuppy or anyone and if they placed the bag on the counter, no one behind the counter would immediately think they are here to rob me.

Makes sense to me

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

um yes, if they were in a bag they would not be seen by skiuppy or anyone and if they placed the bag on the counter, no one behind the counter would immediately think they are here to rob me.

OR

Specifically in this case, everyone can see the teenagers openly carrying the BB guns while walking into the sporting goods store that sells BB guns and NOT think that they are going to rob the store that sells BB guns based solely on them openly carrying a BB gun.

Is that scary? Yes.

Are there going to be cases where people are wrong and places are robbed by people with BB guns or bullet guns that look like BB guns? Absolutely!

But once we have made the call as a society that BB guns that look like real bullet guns can exist and in a more general sense that people outside of law enforcement can openly carry BB guns and real bullet guns legally, we can no longer jump to the assumptions of the people openly carrying these weapons automatically have criminal intentions. If we all get to openly carrying guns, we probably need to all get comfortable with a society where we all get to openly carry guns and BB guns that look like real life guns.

[Lathum]

This is what you get when right wing media is constantly claiming crime is out of control and you promote the good guy with a gun theory.

The guy wanted to be a hero. I hope he rots in a cell for the rest of his life. Just call the police.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Just call the police.

Many of us no longer trust them enough to put our safety completely into their hands. For a variety of reasons.

[flere-imsaho]

Just ban guns, all guns, even airsoft. This fetish for firearms in this country is completely fucking out of hand.

Any crime committed while in possession of a firearm gets a 10-year prison term before any other sentencing.

Want to hunt? Check your weapons out of an armory and wear a blaze-orange permit on the back of your hat or the upper back of your jacket.

I'm tired of this shit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I'm tired of this shit.

And a lot of us are tired of the absurdity you just proposed.

And we're better armed

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Many of us no longer trust them enough to put our safety completely into their hands. For a variety of reasons.

Come on Jon. You just leave us hanging with that cliffhanger. Give one or two of your reasons that you have moved to the dark side.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Come on Jon. You just leave us hanging with that cliffhanger. Give one or two of your reasons that you have moved to the dark side.

Moved? I've always been on the side of self-sufficiency lol.

Remember, I grew up on the teachings of "do what you need to do ... just be sure to drag 'em inside afterwards." Not sure how old I actually was before I met anyone with a badge who didn't subscribe to that philosophy, well into my 20s at least.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I hope he rots in a cell for the rest of his life. Just call the police.

He won't. My guess is he pleas down to manslaughter. He is probably facing some jail time, but it will be in single digits.

[sovereignstar v2]

living in fear with guns

'murica

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Just ban guns, all guns, even airsoft. This fetish for firearms in this country is completely fucking out of hand.

Any crime committed while in possession of a firearm gets a 10-year prison term before any other sentencing.

Want to hunt? Check your weapons out of an armory and wear a blaze-orange permit on the back of your hat or the upper back of your jacket.

I'm tired of this shit.

fiero for president of the universe!

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He won't. My guess is he pleas down to manslaughter. He is probably facing some jail time, but it will be in single digits.

it WAS premeditated tho

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

it WAS premeditated tho

They aren't even charging him with premeditation. Murder two is literally without premeditation. Premeditation would be murder one.

[CrimsonFox]

hmmmm