Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

dirt sheet(s) saying that Rollins in currently in Birmingham being examined by the legendary Dr. Andrews.

That's never a good sign :/

[CrescentMoonie]

NJPW launched the English language version of their New Japan World website.

[JonInMiddleGA]

WWE star Seth Rollins says knee injury ‘is real,’ WrestleMania match now in jeopardy - The Washington Post

[dubb93]

It's an MCL and it's expected to take 8 weeks of recovery time. At least that is what Meltzer reported last night.

EDIT: Meltzer said he thinks Rollins will be a go, but it is likely WWE holds him out due to legal reasons if he isn't 100%.

[CrescentMoonie]

Don't tell Kevin Nash, but the Rock & Roll Express is going into the WWE Hall of Fame.

[CrescentMoonie]

10 minutes into his first full show on Raw and they accidentally turn Joe face because Vince has developed Verne Gagne's ear for his audience.

[CrescentMoonie]

It looks like the Lucha Libre landscape is shifting significantly again.

[CrescentMoonie]

RIP Chavo Classic

[molson]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

RIP Chavo Classic

He was still fun to watch at 55 years old doing moonsaults in 2004

Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Guerrero Sr. 6/17/2004 - YouTube

[CrescentMoonie]

Where do the Guerrero's fit in the pantheon of wrestling families?

[molson]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Where do the Guerrero's fit in the pantheon of wrestling families?

A tier below the Von Erichs and Harts in popularity, but similar to the Samoans in depth. There were 6 Guerreros who were excellent wrestlers and who achieved some level of stardom. It was mostly regional aside from Eddie, but so were the Harts aside from Bret and Owen.

[CrescentMoonie]

I think you can toss the Funks into that top tier as well.

That does seem like the right level for the Guerreros. I'm surprised at how much the various members branched out despite Eddie being the only huge star. One of the first matches I remember seeing was the 1984 Mid South tag title match with Chavo and Hector against the Rock & Roll Express.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Where do the Guerrero's fit in the pantheon of wrestling families?

Not sure I could put them above the Rhodes or Orton families either. Also are we talking actual wrestling because the McMahon are probably the "first family" of wrestling even if it's in more of a on screen business point of view. I think the Von Erich's are above them and the Windham tree if you start with Blackjack, Barry, Rotunda (son in law) and his kids. Depends on where you value the Armstrong family (Bob, Brad, Scott and Road Dogg) but I'd put the Guerreros at the Armstrong level.

[RainMaker]

I'm not that high on WWE these days but Elimination Chamber was a really good PPV.

[Neuqua]

I really only put it on for background music while I prepared for the week but I agree, the PPV was just really well done.

I know Vince is still in charge of both shows but it just seems the group that is in charge of Smackdown is running circles around the RAW brand right now.

[CrescentMoonie]

Second half of the show was much stronger, but overall it was good. The only downside was the tag match and that's more about how poorly the tag division has been booked since the split.

I also feel like the last brand split favored SD and I'm wondering if that's because Vince doesn't care as much about it or because Michael Hayes is the best booker in the company above the NXT level.

[CrescentMoonie]

Lucha Underground seasons 1 and 2 will be streaming on Netflix sometime this spring. Season 1 was mostly excellent. Season 2 less so and season 3 seems like the show is dying, but definitely watch the first season for something very different.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Lucha Underground seasons 1 and 2 will be streaming on Netflix sometime this spring. Season 1 was mostly excellent. Season 2 less so and season 3 seems like the show is dying, but definitely watch the first season for something very different.

Pretty sure that LU is coming to Netflix this Wednesday in both USA and Canada.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Pretty sure that LU is coming to Netflix this Wednesday in both USA and Canada.

That was the rumor, but it wasn't part of the statement released today.

[Maple Leafs]

That can't really count as a turn since Owens was already heel, but that moment may have been the greatest WWE heel turn since Michaels/Jannetty.

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

That can't really count as a turn since Owens was already heel, but that moment may have been the greatest WWE heel turn since Michaels/Jannetty.

would be great if they were still playing the fans. they have teased the turn for quite awhile and always swerve it. I know the rumor (I think), that owens drops to Goldberg so 2 part timers (Goldberg/lesnar) can have a championship match and then Jericho drops to owens while he goes on his rock tour...but what if...its yet another swerve and owens doesn't drop to Goldberg and Jericho shows up, everyone expects his interference to cause the loss but he interferes again and helps owens out...I think that would be just great.

[CrescentMoonie]

They fixed a lot of the mess with Joe this week, they got Reigns /Strowman just right, and those wacky Canucks are still the best thing on the show. Not a fan of Bayley getting the belt this soon, and Charlotte needs to be protected as more than just a PPV winner.

[murrayyyyy]

Last night reminds me why I like house shows more. There was a huge dead period with a cruiserweight 3 min match, Emma and that Joe interview that sucked the life out of the arena. I was shocked that the crowd got back up for the women's match but it ended on a good note.

I don't have a problem with Bayley winning last night. They can't have every story line wait until Mania to happen. The women's division is just stronger on RAW right now as Smackdown seems to put someone on ice for 8 months at a time. I never thought I'd say this but I would have rather seen 3 women's matches instead of 3 cruiser weight matches last night(one was pre show dark).

And even with that, the hardest match to watch last night was Henry-Strowman. Strowman looks 10 times better on TV as our angle just showed how much he pulls up before contact and how slow/unsure he is when he moves. This Roman-Strowman match is destined for 2 stars.

They've sacrificed the tag division on RAW by having their new champions job to Roman, Enzo getting beat in what seemed like 3 mins and New Day facing Bo Dallas because they've got nothing for them. I dunno how they can fix things unless they bring Balor back with the Club but that won't happen.

The festival of friendship was great. My only question about it was did the KO and Triple H segment have any sound because it had none in the arena. Could this mean we are back to an Authority angle with it being HHH, Joe and Owens now with them being the heeliest of heels?

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

They fixed a lot of the mess with Joe this week, they got Reigns /Strowman just right, and those wacky Canucks are still the best thing on the show. Not a fan of Bayley getting the belt this soon, and Charlotte needs to be protected as more than just a PPV winner.

I like this idea a lot...

Bayley wins, but her victory must disappear - Cageside Seats

[CrescentMoonie]

WWE is releasing an official rulebook in a couple of weeks.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

That can't really count as a turn since Owens was already heel, but that moment may have been the greatest WWE heel turn since Michaels/Jannetty.

Jericho was spectacular

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

WWE is releasing an official rulebook in a couple of weeks.

Releasing it, like you release an animal into the wild that you didn't want around anymore?

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Releasing it, like you release an animal into the wild that you didn't want around anymore?

The Official WWE Book of Rules: (And How To Break Them)

[RainMaker]

Nicole Bass passed away. Kind of surprised she was still alive.

[albionmoonlight]

Capitalism is just the best: An American who channels President Trump in the ring becomes Mexico’s biggest wrestling villain - The Washington Post

[murrayyyyy]

Reports that George the animal Steele has passed away are coming out now.

[CrescentMoonie]

Apparently Nicole Bass is still alive, but in grave condition and soon to be removed from life support.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Reports that George the animal Steele has passed away are coming out now.

George "The Animal" Steele passes away

[cthomer5000]

I think they really jumped the gun on Bayley as champion. I would have made that way way further down the road, as late as Wrestlemania 2018.

I really like her a lot, i just don't know where you go with her now.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think they really jumped the gun on Bayley as champion. I would have made that way way further down the road, as late as Wrestlemania 2018.

I really like her a lot, i just don't know where you go with her now.

If they do something to pull the rug out from under her on Monday, then it's okay. Otherwise, I'm right there with you. This feels way too early, and 2018 Wrestlemania with the first PPV loss for Charlotte, is exactly where I would be aiming to do it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think they really jumped the gun on Bayley as champion. I would have made that way way further down the road, as late as Wrestlemania 2018.

I really like her a lot, i just don't know where you go with her now.

Same. The best part of her NXT run was how long it took to finally reach the top. I would have kept the belt on Charlotte until Summerslam next year.

[murrayyyyy]

And Ivan Koloff today. Jesus...

FORMER WWWF CHAMPION IVAN KOLOFF PASSES AWAY | PWInsider.com

[CrescentMoonie]

On the positive side, at least these are guys who are living relatively long lives.

[BYU 14]

Damn rough week for Wrestlers, loved the Russian Bear and you know you are bad ass if the Ramones put you in a song! RIP Ivan.

[CrescentMoonie]

Kevin Owens is an international treasure on the mic.

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Kevin Owens is an international treasure on the mic.

he's good and I like him, but an international treasure he is not. in that promo alone he flubbed a few times. i know he came in with some good mic skills and hopefully he learned from the legend that is Jericho, who is in my top 5 all-time with mic and in ring skills together.

[CrescentMoonie]

I'll take Owens sounding like a real person, instead of a script of hot takes and gimmicky lines, over Jericho nearly every time.

Oh, and did WWE just go the opposite direction of the expected Sasha vs Bayley feud where Sasha is the heel by having Bayley so openly go against her own ideals? A Bayley heel turn could be very interesting if done well.

[Mota]

He's entertaining. He's not stale. He's not overproduced. And when you watch him, you get that feeling that anything can happen (even if it's probably not true). He feels real. And that's something you can't say about a lot of wrestlers in the WWE these days.

[hollmt]

oh no doubt. like I said, I like owens. I don't watch NXT, but I did see owens debut on wwe and liked him immediately. good skills on the mic and in the ring. I just cant put him in 'international treasure' status yet

I am not entirely sold that he is totally unscripted though if that is where you are going with his promo(s). of course Jericho has scripted promos, so did the rock and austin and everyone googoo gagad over them (I like the rock as well ), but both rock and Jericho can still adlib. owens seems to have that ability as well.

Jericho though, in my mind, is overall just great. in ring, safety, marketable, fan reaction heel and face, mic skills on and off script and has never seemed forced down our throat like some wrestlers.

I'm still on the fence if the Jericho/owens break is for 'real'. I'm still inclined to think it is all a big ass work to pull one out from part time Goldberg. seriously man...part time Goldberg vs part time lesnar for a belt...c'mon.

[CrescentMoonie]

Austin was not scripted and he openly refused to be so. He was given bullet points and nothing else.

Second straight week of good, if not great, Raw. I think we did see the beginnings of a slow burn towards a Bayley heel turn. Strowman vs Big Show got two "this is awesome" chants and the second one may have actually been deserved.

Also, I did notice that a decent chunk of the crowd chanted "Thank you Sheamus" when he kicked Enzo after their match. Cesaro seemed to acknowledge it and the camera seemed to focus on that. A heel run for Enzo and Cass could breathe some life into the non mic part of their act.

[hollmt]

scripted/bullet pointed promos, whatever. we are really splitting hairs on the point and that is owens is not a 'international treasure' on the mic in my opinion. that does not take away from his ability in ring or on the mic...at all. rock and austin often worked together on bullet pointed/scripted promos and those actually were international treasure promos because they had years of promos each behind them to warrant such a title. jericho also probably has bullet pointed promos. so does owens. to think he goes out there and just wings it all on his lonesome....doesn't happen. even the stupid pipe bomb whatever you call them cm punk promos were bullet pointed.

i definitely agree though that some wrestlers are more scripted promos and some are more bullet pointed but the good ones are able to adlib and go off script/point as/if needed. jericho, rock, austin could and can all still do that. owens is working towards that. my point from the first post is i hope he learned more from Jericho this last year because it will only make him better and maybe make him into the international treasure all around.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by hollmt

scripted/bullet pointed promos, whatever.

Rock had his promos written for him word for word by Brian Gerwitz. He would even have Gerwitz stand off camera with reminders. He was one of the first to do that, and that led to where things are now with everything being so overly scripted.

Bullet points/talking points have been around forever.

[Neon_Chaos]

Speaking of which, the Talk is Jericho podcast with Gerwitz as his guest is great. It really gave an insight as to how the entire WWF was basically being scripted by two guys during and after Vince Russo's tenure.

[CrescentMoonie]

Jericho's podcast is great. Gerwitz being so open about how things worked was fascinating.

[digamma]

Speaking of podcasts, have just discovered "Something to Wrestle With" and "What Happened When," two podcasts which take singular events or cards from way back and break them down with the lead up and backstory. Something to Wrestle With is with Bruce Prichard who was Brother Love and What Happened When is with NWA/WCW announcer Tony Schiavone. For old GCW/NWA/WCW fans the Schiavone pod is great stuff.