Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

That is some legit 'HOLY SHIT' stuff there.

It got my attention, that's for sure.

[PilotMan]

Today I flew with a girl who's in training in the IWC in Pittsburgh. She said that Goldberg is miserable with the training that Vince has been making him do.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

That is some legit 'HOLY SHIT' stuff there.

It was rumored, even though the Hardy's names weren't on the future ROH dates they said they were, but I figured there was no way after they worked last night.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

DELETE DELETE DELETE DELETE

What are we deleting?
Spoilers are expected.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

What are we deleting?
Spoilers are expected.

The simple answer is, it's complicated.

[CrescentMoonie]

Orton? Come on Vince, he's been boring for a decade.

Gee, I wonder who will beat him for it to break a record that nobody wants to see broken.

[SirFozzie]

That Orton-Wyatt match was.. something.

Something business exposing
Something slower then molasses going uphill in January
Something really fucking goofy.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

That Orton-Wyatt match was.. something.

Something business exposing
Something slower then molasses going uphill in January
Something really fucking goofy.

Their ability to screw up the Wyatt character over and over and over and over again is damn near impressive.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Today I flew with a girl who's in training in the IWC in Pittsburgh. She said that Goldberg is miserable with the training that Vince has been making him do.

Didn't Bill say basically that same thing on some podcast a couple of weeks ago?
(Just read the transcript 2-3 days ago, but I believe it was more like two weeks old) Maybe the new Edge & Christian one?

[PilotMan]

No heat in that at all.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Didn't Bill say basically that same thing on some podcast a couple of weeks ago?
(Just read the transcript 2-3 days ago, but I believe it was more like two weeks old) Maybe the new Edge & Christian one?

Not sure, no surprise, but he's probably done after tonight.

[SirFozzie]

Paul Heyman can distill a six month plodding storyline full of disappointments and make it into fucking gold.

[CrescentMoonie]

Goldberg's walk to the ring is going to take 73 minutes and it will still only be 38% as long as Taker's.

[SirFozzie]

That was the 1812 overture of matches. Nothing but cannon shots (finishers)

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

That was the 1812 overture of matches. Nothing but cannon shots (finishers)

As someone said on Twitter, it was a video game with the infinite specials cheat.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

What are we deleting?
Spoilers are expected.

I was just chanting with the crowd.

[CrescentMoonie]

So glad to see JR looking and sounding good after such a rough week or two.

Desperately hoping they don't put Reigns over so that he and Brock are the only ones to beat Taker at Mania and use that as the excuse to put the belt back on Roman.

[kingfc22]

Time for the Taker's last hurrah. Win and walk off into the sunset. Finally....

[jbergey22]

Betting odds had Roman around -900

Brock Lesnar is -3250 and Bill Goldberg is +1350.
Roman Reigns is -900 and Undertaker is +675.
Randy Orton is -750 and Bray Wyatt is +450.
John Cena & Nikki Bella at -1975 and Miz & Maryse are +975.
Seth Rollins is -1750 and HHH is +850.
A.J. Styles is -1625 and Shane McMahon is +775.
Bayley is -1500 to keep the women's title with Sasha Banks and Charlotte both +1400 and Nia Jax +5500.
Kevin Owens is a -1750 favorite in the U.S. title match with Chris Jericho at +850.
Baron Corbin is -1750 to get his hand raised as a major favorite over Dean Ambrose at +850.
In the Raw ladder match, Enzo & Cass are favored at -175, with Gallows & Anderson at +168 and Sheamus & Cesaro at +1100.
Smackdown women's title: Naomi is a -420 winner to win the title. Carmella is +320, Alexa Bliss, Becky Lynch and Mickie James are +9500 and Natalya is +13500.

from f4online...Gotta send the fans home happy though right?

[CrescentMoonie]

Corbin and the ladder tag being the only ones to be wrong so far is disturbing. Sadly, Vince is so delusional these days that he probably thinks Reigns winning is sending the fans home despite the massive hatred for him.

[CrescentMoonie]

Inexcusable. Please die Vince.

[jbergey22]

Lame ending. No rational on why that was the Main Event in the first place.

When you have to Main Event a guy that wrestles 2-3 times a year against someone much of the fanbase cant stand without much of a storyline build you have to rethink your product.

I wouldnt know where to start at this point trying to book the product so it actually makes some sense.

Horseshit hot shot booking just screws with the fans and the performers.

[Neon_Chaos]

Taker's done, left his gear in the ring.

Makes sense for him to go out on his back to the future of the company.

Thanks for the memories.

[SirFozzie]

I know it's tradition for a wrestler to do the job in his final match... but I was hoping Taker would have been different.

Taker's old school though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I know we don't do much hashtagging around here but, honestly, #ThankYouTaker is about all I know to say

[JonInMiddleGA]

Arash Markazi‏Verified account @ArashMarkazi 2h2 hours ago
More
The press box gave Jim Ross a standing ovation upon his return. His call of the main event will be heard in the press box.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I know it's tradition for a wrestler to do the job in his final match... but I was hoping Taker would have been different.

Taker's old school though.

I do not envy Reigns at all. To be given the spot of retiring the most respected member of the roster is a huge honor and a terrible burden.

Taker has some semblance of creative control, and he would not have gone out for someone he did not respect.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I do not envy Reigns at all. To be given the spot of retiring the most respected member of the roster is a huge honor and a terrible burden.

Taker has some semblance of creative control, and he would not have gone out for someone he did not respect.

My thoughts exactly. I have to feel like he could've picked anyone he wanted, and that's how he decided to settle it.

[Mota]

Great PPV if it would've ended at 11pm. Unfortunately everything after that was a disapointment. The main event especially was horrid. More shoving Reigns down our throats even though we have rejected it for 2 years now. Terrible stuff.

[jbergey22]

Agree!

I dont dislike Reigns at all. Hes a decent performer. I just dont understand why the company doesnt know how to organically create stars anymore. Hogan, Rock, Austin all got over as stars because the fans wanted it. Because the superpush worked with Hogan the WWE thinks he can work with everyone.

Right now the fans want to get behind AJ, Miz, Wyatt. Booking 101. Give them a story the fans will follow and care about and let them come out of the story with more momentum.

All this lets get a performer over and give the rub to someone that fans have no interest in is just crazy. Lesnar didnt need UT to get over and beating UT is not going to help Reigns get over(it just falls right into the same category of why the fans puke on Reigns in the first place).

[CrescentMoonie]

Reigns is getting pushed because he was never on the indies. It's that simple. Vince still wants to pretend that he grows the biggest stars and is smarter than everyone. Reigns is a solid heel, who could go on a face run if they let it happen organically, but he is neither a good wrestler or good worker right now.

AJ being stuck with Shane is asinine.

Miz and Maryse losing to Tit and Tits is sad at this point in his career, especially with the way he's improved his character the last year.

Wyatt is being completely wasted because Vince literally doesn't understand the character at all. Lose the supernatural crap and have him be the crazy occult psychopath that controls others and is freakishly dangerous himself.

I'll agree that was a good PPV, probably a B or B+, for the first 5-6 matches. Then the A/V club hit the bong too hard and Randy Boreton was given his eleventy billionth title run that nobody cares about and only Brock-Goldberg was decent the rest of the way.

Think about that. The video game match where they just hit their best moves for 6 minutes was the best thing in the last 4 matches of the biggest show of the year. Just inexplicable. They've killed every freaking bit of momentum and goodwill that Smackdown had developed when it passed by Raw in the ratings for a week or two and made it just as bad as the red show now.

[murrayyyyy]

Everyone remember when the Shield was the next big thing? Preshow, 47 year old guy and his wife in a 4 year story line and the burden of retiring a 52 year old guy who should have left a couple of years ago. People complained that being under the Shield was holding them back and they are all now in meaningless feuds.

Can I ask why people love Wyatt? I've never thought to myself, I hope this Wyatt match goes 10+ mins.

Quick thoughts on the show? I'd give it a B as there weren't a ton of missed spots and some matches felt rushed on a 7 hour card. Just wondering what the 3 highlights of the night were? Hardy's, Shane missing the shooting star and Roman looking like he was doing a job he didn't want to do.

[CrescentMoonie]

Wyatt seemed much better in NXT. He's a big guy who can work fast and slow, but I think they've got the character in such a bad place that he doesn't know what to do anymore. The supernatural crap is ruining the character and hindering the matches. It also doesn't help that he was stuck with Randy Orton.

I never got the argument to break up the Shield. I never heard a single person complain about them being a group. I never heard a single voice complaining that they were getting stale or needed to be broken up. Not one.

They pulled that trigger way too early, just like they did with screwing with the Wyatt Family. Both of those had another year in them, at least, but Vince hates anything other than singles wrestling at this point. The Shield lasted barely 18 months. The Wyatt's got 14 months on their initial run. Then they were slapped back together, then given a new member, and then disbanded again with the Randy Orton crap as the impetus.

Neither group was really given a chance to even build to their blowup.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I never got the argument to break up the Shield. I never heard a single person complain about them being a group. I never heard a single voice complaining that they were getting stale or needed to be broken up. Not one.

Ambrose himself from right after the breakup, about the reasoning they were given, from an appearance on Jericho's podcast: it was because there wasn't much left for us to do, we had beaten everybody.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1677917/wwe...ields-breakup/

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ambrose himself from right after the breakup, about the reasoning they were given, from an appearance on Jericho's podcast: it was because there wasn't much left for us to do, we had beaten everybody.

WWE News: Dean Ambrose Tells The Story Behind The Shield's Breakup

I was thinking from a fan perspective. I don't remember any clamoring for a breakup at all. In fact, I feel like most of the anticipation was for the potential confrontation and feud with the Wyatts. I know the sheets were talking about the breakup, and who would get slotted where, but I'm not even sure that they were in favor of it more than just reporting what management was going to do.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I was thinking from a fan perspective. I don't remember any clamoring for a breakup at all. In fact, I feel like most of the anticipation was for the potential confrontation and feud with the Wyatts. I know the sheets were talking about the breakup, and who would get slotted where, but I'm not even sure that they were in favor of it more than just reporting what management was going to do.

Think they had a short feud with the Wyatt @ EC but like every Wyatt feud it only had a 30 day shelf life. They should have gotten the long build like we did with KO-Jericho or even Bray-Orton.

[CrescentMoonie]

JR signed a 2 year deal with WWE for an undisclosed specific number of dates.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I was thinking from a fan perspective. I don't remember any clamoring for a breakup at all.

I'd probably call that a 'sort of" kind of thing.

"Smarts" of course knew the breakup was just a matter of when, not if. The breakup gave us a bigger Ambrose sooner than we would have gotten IMO, and that's a plus. The big minus is, of course, that it gave us Reigns shoved down people's throats.

(and, strictly, FTR ... I'm not dinging you at all here. I'm just making conversation 'cause the topic is decent to good)

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd probably call that a 'sort of" kind of thing.

"Smarts" of course knew the breakup was just a matter of when, not if. The breakup gave us a bigger Ambrose sooner than we would have gotten IMO, and that's a plus. The big minus is, of course, that it gave us Reigns shoved down people's throats.

(and, strictly, FTR ... I'm not dinging you at all here. I'm just making conversation 'cause the topic is decent to good)

Didn't we get that weird title period where Ambrose held the US title for a year but never defended it with the Shield? Odds are my views are skewed reading /r/squaredcircle with too many smarks. It just seemed like everyone had their "one" who would be the breakout star of the group so like you said, the breakup was bound to happen.

Is anyone excited about call-up night/s? I assume we get two nights of it with Smackdown being live but if it's not Nakamura or The Revial, I'm not sure I care because they will be destined for mid-card jobbers it seems like.

[CrescentMoonie]

Seems like Nakamura is the obvious choice on the Smackdown side, hopefully jumping right into a program with Styles as a reward for AJ having to work with Shane. Asuka has been working SD house shows, but Takeover plus Naomi coming back seems to point towards her being brought up later. I really hope DIY and Revival come up to Smackdown as well.

No idea who fits on Raw at this point unless they go the Asuka route there in a few months or one of the tag teams tonight.

Also, where does a draft fit into things this year?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Is anyone excited about call-up night/s? I assume we get two nights of it with Smackdown being live but if it's not Nakamura or The Revial, I'm not sure I care because they will be destined for mid-card jobbers it seems like.

Hell, if the dirt sheet stuff I've seen in the past couple weeks is right, some of the call ups are going to be (essentially) mid-card jobbers from NXT anyway. (yes Elias Samson, I'm talking about you ... and Mojo f'n Rawley too)

I get trying to keep NXT viable and all but if your ceiling has been low there, I have a tough time thinking it's going to be much higher on Raw/Smackdown.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I get trying to keep NXT viable and all but if your ceiling has been low there, I have a tough time thinking it's going to be much higher on Raw/Smackdown.

I think the only exception to this is Dillinger. He's just so over with the core fanbase, and his gimmick seems friendly enough to the casuals that I think he's got upper midcard potential if they'll do anything at all with him.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Seems like Nakamura is the obvious choice on the Smackdown side, hopefully jumping right into a program with Styles as a reward for AJ having to work with Shane. Asuka has been working SD house shows, but Takeover plus Naomi coming back seems to point towards her being brought up later. I really hope DIY and Revival come up to Smackdown as well.

No idea who fits on Raw at this point unless they go the Asuka route there in a few months or one of the tag teams tonight.

Also, where does a draft fit into things this year?

Hoping DIY comes up with Roode but I know Sanity is the faction that HHH wants called up eventually because they are his baby.

I'm not sure they end up doing a draft as I see them going more of the "trade' route with all the free agents that RAW has gotten while Smackdown has got none.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I think the only exception to this is Dillinger. He's just so over with the core fanbase, and his gimmick seems friendly enough to the casuals that I think he's got upper midcard potential if they'll do anything at all with him.

I can't stand him but he seems to be the smarky choice right now. Any show you go to, people are chanting 10 on every count.

[RainMaker]

I thought Mania was OK. There is really never a bad one but it wasn't that great either. There didn't seem to be much heat going into any of the matches outside of Rollins/HHH.

Loved the tag match and the Hardy's return was great. HHH/Rollins was good. Brock/Goldberg was better than I expected.

The show however is just too long. Maybe they should move away from making it so everyone gets to appear on the show.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The show however is just too long. Maybe they should move away from making it so everyone gets to appear on the show.

I've heard either tell people they aren't getting a Mania payday or split it into Saturday and Sunday. I actually kind of like the two night approach.

[RainMaker]

I also don't understand the Reigns fascination WWE has. I think he'd make a great heel right now. But he's just not a good babyface and the fans don't seem to be taking to him after years of trying.

Raw could use a good heel too now that Balor is back.

[RainMaker]

Also Stephanie looked incredible last night.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Horseshit hot shot booking just screws with the fans and the performers.

I can understand a lot of the complaints about the product, but one thing you really can't accuse them of is hot shot booking. These days, everything is planned out so far in advance that it feels like nothing ever matters, because everything is just the start of the next chapter. Hell, half the reason they had Reigns win is that they've already decided on next year's main event.

I'm all for doing some advance planning, and nobody wants to go back to the Russo days, but you're doing live TV. You're allowed to switch it up and surprise people every now and then.

Ah well. At least we've got tonight's Raw, aka "the only one all year where anything is allowed to actually happen".

[CrescentMoonie]

So...video reminding people that Reigns was shoved down their throats again turns into tribute to Taker that gets the Raw crowd cheering for Taker, and they didn't foresee the Roman Sucks chant growing out of it? Then Reigns enters to massive boos but he's not a heel? Vince needs to be put down.

And no, Michael Cole, people aren't booing Reigns because last night might have been Taker's last, they're booing him because he's a bad wrestler, mediocre worker, and is being shoved down their throats despite their complete rejection of his character.