Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[CrescentMoonie]

Another crowd responding favorably to Strowman destroying Reigns. Two loud "Thank you Strowman" chants for the post match attack and WWE still ignores it and tries to sell him as a heel. A less loud "You Deserve It" chant for a bloody Reigns being helped to the back, not sure if they turned the crowd mics down or not.

[CrescentMoonie]

Billy Corgan just bought the NWA. Interested to see if he and Lagana can somehow make it meaningful again.

In WWE news, how did nobody in their production staff realize it was still going to be daylight outside and pre tape that stupid House of Horrors bit in the dark?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Corgan is either nuts OR in dire need of a tax writeoff.

He could double, and then redouble, the brand's relevance in 24 months and still only have something like the #4 wrestling brand in the country.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And Adam Cole is, apparently, officially free to negotiate.

Not sure there's anybody I consider a higher ceiling prospect right now. I'll be interested to see where he goes (if anywhere).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Corgan is either nuts OR in dire need of a tax writeoff.

He could double, and then redouble, the brand's relevance in 24 months and still only have something like the #4 wrestling brand in the country.

I think the term Bryan Alvarez uses for these people is spot on. Money marks.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think the term Bryan Alvarez uses for these people is spot on. Money marks.

Yeah, but this feels ... different. Somehow.

I think he's just ... bored, moreso than the typically jocksniffing money mark.

[CrescentMoonie]

The difference is that Corgan/Lagana led TNA last year was probably the best the product has been from a creative standpoint. I don't see how he gets NWA on TV with any kind of meaningful channel, but if they can pitch it to the right TV exec it's a possibility that they at least take a decent shot at making the name relevant again.

Here's a longshot scenario:

1. WWE completes its purchase of ROH, shuttering the company.
2. Lucha Underground pisses off so much of its talent with their scheduling that they cease to exist.
3. Impact gonna Impact.
4. Corgan gets agreements in principle with enough meaningful workers (Cody, Adam Cole, some recent ROH or Impact castoffs, maybe a few CMLL/AAA/Crash luchadors, etc).
5. Corgan tells those workers they can do indy shows but puts it into their contracts that they have to work a certain number of shows for the current territories per year.
6. He takes those potential contracts to a decent sized TV channel (smaller than Spike but better than Pop/Destination America) and gets a slot.
7. NWA becomes the (still very distant) #2 wrestling organization in the US.

My biggest change to the current setup would be to try and recruit in more solid indies (AAW, PWG, MCW, OVW, etc.) to join without the archaic idea of calling themselves or their belts NWA Whatever anymore. Oh, and base yourself out of Vegas.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

The difference is that Corgan/Lagana led TNA last year was probably the best the product has been from a creative standpoint. I don't see how he gets NWA on TV with any kind of meaningful channel, but if they can pitch it to the right TV exec it's a possibility that they at least take a decent shot at making the name relevant again.

Name a single network that would have any meaningful impact (no pun intended) that you believe would even sniff a wrestling show today, much less undertaking the project of reviving/rehabbing one.

Sinclair has bombed with it and they own the stations that are supposed to carry it. POP might as well not exist for TNA at this point. A start-up like LU didn't have any negative baggage attached.

2008 NWA had the deal with Colours, see how much that accomplished for them? There was an announcement of an NWA TV deal on AXS back in 2015 tho honestly I can't tell you if any show was ever produced or aired. NWA Hollywood (once booked by Lagana) got a local TV deal ... and left the organization shortly thereafter.

I'm not beating you up here, I'm just not seeing how TV that has any meaning is even a remote possibility for this.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Corgan is either nuts OR in dire need of a tax writeoff.

He could double, and then redouble, the brand's relevance in 24 months and still only have something like the #4 wrestling brand in the country.

He could just set up headquarters in Chicago and sign a deal with someone like Netflix or Amazon. Why go looking for a TV deal when TV is dying?

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Name a single network that would have any meaningful impact (no pun intended) that you believe would even sniff a wrestling show today, much less undertaking the project of reviving/rehabbing one.

Sinclair has bombed with it and they own the stations that are supposed to carry it. POP might as well not exist for TNA at this point. A start-up like LU didn't have any negative baggage attached.

2008 NWA had the deal with Colours, see how much that accomplished for them? There was an announcement of an NWA TV deal on AXS back in 2015 tho honestly I can't tell you if any show was ever produced or aired. NWA Hollywood (once booked by Lagana) got a local TV deal ... and left the organization shortly thereafter.

I'm not beating you up here, I'm just not seeing how TV that has any meaning is even a remote possibility for this.

I agree it's a huge longshot, but Corgan has successfully run a decent sized company at this point along with Lagana. 2008 NWA didn't have anyone with recent TV success, no matter how minimal, involved (and looked like the dying days of the AWA). I don't think the ROH product works on a wide scale so Sinclair is mostly irrelevant. I'm just thinking that Corgan might be able to pull together a perfect storm that is just enough to make them a minor player. One of the keys is being smarter than TNA was about letting guys work indy shows which Corgan already did.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

He could just set up headquarters in Chicago and sign a deal with someone like Netflix or Amazon. Why go looking for a TV deal when TV is dying?

Interesting, it's kind of the modern version of the weekly PPV model TNA started with. I wonder if Netflix would actually pay? If not, how does a wrestling organization make enough money to have Netflix/Amazon level production without either advertising money or TV rights fees? I guess Corgan could go full money mark and dump a ton into it, but how much of his reported $50 million net worth is he willing to part with to make this a go.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Interesting, it's kind of the modern version of the weekly PPV model TNA started with. I wonder if Netflix would actually pay? If not, how does a wrestling organization make enough money to have Netflix/Amazon level production without either advertising money or TV rights fees? I guess Corgan could go full money mark and dump a ton into it, but how much of his reported $50 million net worth is he willing to part with to make this a go.

Well I think Netflix (with international at their fingertips) is a better option. Netflix seems to be down with wrestling with them airing Lucha season 1 and 2 and also buying the GLOW series that is coming out soon. Corgan might have some Hollywood connections and be able to have the NWA center around vets who don't want the WWE travel plan. There is always some indy talent who would work less dates if allowed to do indy stuff. I mean you could put a belt on Cody and get a few other just to start the show. Not sure you need a roster bigger than 20 to start out.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

My biggest change to the current setup would be to try and recruit in more solid indies (AAW, PWG, MCW, OVW, etc.) to join without the archaic idea of calling themselves or their belts NWA Whatever anymore. Oh, and base yourself out of Vegas.

I think that's the best we can hope for at this point. It was my first thought for relevance too. Old school way to lift up each region and organically build. Not sure how that works without some good media though. Old school as TV, and right now, that's a bit tight and competitive. You Tube would be great, and gratis, but it'll take a lot of money see that succeed.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Well I think Netflix (with international at their fingertips) is a better option. Netflix seems to be down with wrestling with them airing Lucha season 1 and 2 and also buying the GLOW series that is coming out soon. Corgan might have some Hollywood connections and be able to have the NWA center around vets who don't want the WWE travel plan. There is always some indy talent who would work less dates if allowed to do indy stuff. I mean you could put a belt on Cody and get a few other just to start the show. Not sure you need a roster bigger than 20 to start out.

I think my biggest question is how do they make enough from Netflix to pay for enough contracts to matter? Also, where does the promotion come from? Do they pay to get advertising at the sign in to Netflix? Does Netflix get partial ownership of the product? Do they do seasons, and if so do they download at once for binge watching?

That roster size sounds reasonable. If ROH disappears, does the NWA go the route of trying to get NJPW back into the fold for some shows to build itself up and help with the American expansion plans from Japan? An NWA on Netflix that partners with NJPW and CMLL could be interesting for keeping the main roster size down while still having workers available (especially NJPW names doing NWA TV tapings while the company is not on tour).

Cody, Bobby Fish, possibly someone like John Hennigan, maybe a tag team like Killer Elite Squad or the Briscoes (doubt WWE takes them still), and a bit more to fill it out seems okay if it's supplement by a more international talent base and some shorter term contracts to be job guys.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I think that's the best we can hope for at this point. It was my first thought for relevance too. Old school way to lift up each region and organically build. Not sure how that works without some good media though. Old school as TV, and right now, that's a bit tight and competitive. You Tube would be great, and gratis, but it'll take a lot of money see that succeed.

Maybe something like the fledgling YouTube Red?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Maybe something like the fledgling YouTube Red?

How about a Google+ site too?


Seems like a very bad connection there due to the miniscule subscriber base (reportedly around 1.5m late last year)

There's a pretty good chance that the individual NWA members vanilla YouTube accounts could draw more traffic than they'd get from YTR.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I think my biggest question is how do they make enough from Netflix to pay for enough contracts to matter? Also, where does the promotion come from? Do they pay to get advertising at the sign in to Netflix? Does Netflix get partial ownership of the product? Do they do seasons, and if so do they download at once for binge watching?

Use the Netflix to promote your shows and go back to a regional wrestling territory with "tours" done with a PPV type show that Netflix retains the rights to. You basically give up your video library for a fee while you gain all the arena profits/merch revenue. Have the Netflix show be a 2 hour bi-weekly drop. Build yourself in a big city like Chicago (think Billy is from there) and then hit major cities in North America. In half a year with the Netflix exposure all over the world you can do the European tours which is what kept TNA alive. You could probably get away with only having weekend shows if you wanted to keep costs down.

Netflix is still on an "original content" kick and is always trying to find a way to bring in more people. Netflix has always had a soft spot for wrestling as most of the WWE dvds use to be on Netflix and they took 2 season of old LU from El Rey and this GLOW thing they are starting up.

As for contracts, why not just treat the wrestlers like they should and pay on appearance. If someone isn't signed to WWE, it seems like they are in 50 different other organizations. I saw 4/5ths of the ROH roster perform the next night for the local FSW organization in Vegas.

I don't think their competition is ROH/TNA right now as it's about establishing yourself as the next streaming only show. NTX is the only one they would need to worry about so it's about putting on a better show than NXT (IMO). Netflix would buy into that as they want to dominates the streaming world (they made a big deal getting near 40% of all streaming a few years ago).

[RainMaker]

I think if Netflix wanted weekly wrestling, they'd have picked up TNA over the years when they were desperate for a home. Made an offer for ROH. Worked out a deal with WWE. Hooked up with NJPW. Heck, even partnered with Jeff Jarrett on his new promotion. Is NWA even a top-10 promotion in the world today?

Outside of WWE, wrestling is just not making anyone money on TV. ROH isn't doing well with Sinclair. LU has had their ratings decline from season to season. TNA which actually had an audience of a million a week at one point in time couldn't even get a paid TV deal (I believe the POP deal is a revshare thing). Why would Netflix pay them a dime for their content?

NWA seems about as dead as you can get. Just looked up their champion and it's a 52-year old I've never heard of. Competition is stiff on the indies and it'd take a lot of money to bring in even some modest talent that wrestling fans know of.

[RainMaker]

I'd also add that if Amazon/Netflix wanted to get into streaming weekly wrestling, I think they'd pick something that has more international appeal. There is no chance in the US market these days. But I could see them taking a shot on a promotion targeting Latin America or Japan where they are really trying to grow subscribers.

[molson]

What exactly is he even buying with NWA? It's not a promotion, it's just the letters and the agreements it has in place with the NWA territory promotions, which are VERY small-time. And I don't even know how much authority the NWA actually has over promotions like NWA Smokey Mountain, NWA Southern All-Star Wrestling, or NWA Wrestling Revolution (the only three current NWA promotions with wikipedia pages).

Either he's hoping to bring a more substantial promotion back into the fold (wouldn't that be funny if it was TNA), he wants to start a new promotion that would be the centerpiece of the NWA (I know he told Meltzer he didn't want to start a promotion from scratch, though that was a while ago), or this is just an inexpensive play thing where he can have a bunch of influence over what goes on in NWA Bayou Independent Wrestling etc. If I had to guess, I'd say he's going to try #1 but settle for #3.

Edit: Or maybe #4, he just focuses on the NWA champion and tries to book the NWA tite-holder in various non-NWA promotions. That's been done before though, and I don't think anyone is willing to pay a premium just to see a guy wearing a belt that claims an old lineage.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Edit: Or maybe #4, he just focuses on the NWA champion and tries to book the NWA tite-holder in various non-NWA promotions. That's been done before though, and I don't think anyone is willing to pay a premium just to see a guy wearing a belt that claims an old lineage.

There was a time when I could tell you who had that belt, far beyond the time when even 0.1% of wrestling fans could have guessed.

Those days have been gone a long time now. His first challenge will be even getting the NWA champ booked in NWA promotions.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

How about a Google+ site too?

sick burn

[molson]

So I guess the way the NWA does business in 2017 - there aren't actually any member territories anymore, the NWA simply licenses the name "NWA" out to indy promotions that want to use it. That is all the NWA does. It doesn't control any tape libraries anymore, and the "NWA" that Corgan bought is not the same entity that runs the NWA on demand streaming service (those rights were sold off a long time ago). So it couldn't have been very expensive. But after hearing the guy talk some about how he thinks wrestling is perpetually behind the times relative to other entertainment mediums, and he wants to help move it forward, it's strange that he'd find any value in those letters alone. Maybe he thinks it gets him a seat at the table if he wants to try to business in Japan or whatever. Or maybe it's just a fun novelty purchase.

[CrescentMoonie]

Yeah, I'm not seeing the end game here. I'm guessing Lagana and Conway are coming with him if he's actually going to put a product out there, but it's the most intriguing thing to happen to the NWA since Shane Douglas tossed the belt.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So, right now, the NWA banner's biggest names appear to be
Rob Conway, Rob Terry, Ryback, "Godzilla" Jax Dane (who I see being linked to TNA as of last week?), Kahagas, women's champ Jazz ... and world champ Tim Storm, a 52 y/o guy I'd never heard of until seeing his name last night.

It's in bad shape. Really, really bad shape :/

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So, right now, the NWA banner's biggest names appear to be
Rob Conway, Rob Terry, Ryback, "Godzilla" Jax Dane (who I see being linked to TNA as of last week?), Kahagas, women's champ Jazz ... and world champ Tim Storm, a 52 y/o guy I'd never heard of until seeing his name last night.

It's in bad shape. Really, really bad shape :/

Maybe that's why you buy the name and build your own thing from scratch which seems to be the latest update on it. Lagana is on board to work with Corgan on it. Mike Johnson's latest update is just that the sale is being finalized at which point Corgan will evaluate the brand and put together a plan.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Maybe that's why you buy the name and build your own thing from scratch which seems to be the latest update on it. Lagana is on board to work with Corgan on it. Mike Johnson's latest update is just that the sale is being finalized at which point Corgan will evaluate the brand and put together a plan.

Now lemme ask what seems like a reasonable question: wouldn't you figure someone would have evaluated the brand and developed a plan before writing a check?

I mean, this is business. And "I'll figure it out later" isn't exactly a sound business strategy for acquisitions best I can tell.

The more I see this, the more it seems like an ill-conceived (and maybe ill-considered?) ego move. Hey, his money, he can certainly afford some ego buys.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Now lemme ask what seems like a reasonable question: wouldn't you figure someone would have evaluated the brand and developed a plan before writing a check?

I mean, this is business. And "I'll figure it out later" isn't exactly a sound business strategy for acquisitions best I can tell.

The more I see this, the more it seems like an ill-conceived (and maybe ill-considered?) ego move. Hey, his money, he can certainly afford some ego buys.

I haven't seen the financials on it anywhere. Maybe it's not that big of an investment? Corgan was worth $50 million in 2012 and got another $2.7 million in payout from TNA. I can't imagine the NWA name could fetch even that $2.7 million total.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I haven't seen the financials on it anywhere. Maybe it's not that big of an investment? Corgan was worth $50 million in 2012 and got another $2.7 million in payout from TNA. I can't imagine the NWA name could fetch even that $2.7 million total.

Yeah, I'd think as low as five figures, no more than smallish six figures.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, I'd think as low as five figures, no more than smallish six figures.

Which makes me think he's waiting for the WWE purchase of ROH to jump into the mix and try to at least move ahead of Impact into the #2 slot in the US. I'm also wondering if he made good connections with Destination America and PopTV that could lead to a TV spot? This feels like a low cost speculation move with a plan to jump in if things get shaken up in the near future.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Which makes me think he's waiting for the WWE purchase of ROH to jump into the mix and try to at least move ahead of Impact into the #2 slot in the US. I'm also wondering if he made good connections with Destination America and PopTV that could lead to a TV spot? This feels like a low cost speculation move with a plan to jump in if things get shaken up in the near future.

Sidebar (kinda) but how do we count "#2 in US" these days?

I mean, would / should we count NJPW and LU as being "U.S."?

And do we count NXT as #2 since it's at least kinda/sorta distinct?
(I don't feel like Raw/Smackdown are distinct enough to count separately but I could make a case for NXT)

[SirFozzie]

This is just a pure grudge play. He got screwed because TNA actually convinced a judge that a contract that they signed and didn't want to live up to was unenforceable. He's not going after RoH, or WWE.. but he wants "Impact Wrestling" to stop doing the Undertaker situps and die.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sidebar (kinda) but how do we count "#2 in US" these days?

I mean, would / should we count NJPW and LU as being "U.S."?

And do we count NXT as #2 since it's at least kinda/sorta distinct?
(I don't feel like Raw/Smackdown are distinct enough to count separately but I could make a case for NXT)

I don't know. I think the fact that none of them have easily accessible TV makes it really difficult to judge.

[General Mike]

Dola, I'd say New Japan would be #2 easily if they did any kind of touring in the US because I think they could draw some good size crowds. Impact is basically a TV company with bad TV. Same with Lucha Underground. So I guess ROH is #2 by default, since at least they run shows regularly.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sidebar (kinda) but how do we count "#2 in US" these days?

I mean, would / should we count NJPW and LU as being "U.S."?

And do we count NXT as #2 since it's at least kinda/sorta distinct?
(I don't feel like Raw/Smackdown are distinct enough to count separately but I could make a case for NXT)

I think you've got be putting on shows in the US other than a showcase or two like NJPW. I've got ROH there now because they tour some and keep producing good talent despite Impact pulling in better ratings. I have no idea where to put LU in that mix. It's such a completely different concept and I feel like it's a show that set against a wrestling background more than an actual wrestling promotion. That doesn't disqualify it, but I just don't know where it goes and the ratings have tanked from season 1.

I don't know if NXT can be counted separately as it's not an old NWA territory, but if it is counted then it's #2 for sure and could be argued as #1 for consistent quality.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

This is just a pure grudge play. He got screwed because TNA actually convinced a judge that a contract that they signed and didn't want to live up to was unenforceable. He's not going after RoH, or WWE.. but he wants "Impact Wrestling" to stop doing the Undertaker situps and die.

That's entirely plausible. Pissed about what happened he decides to buy a name, get in touch with people he knows at Pop, and either waits it out or even tries to get enough of a product that he can convince the TV execs to put his show on in place of Impact. I think the value of the NWA name is just that he can pretend his company has a history to work off of instead of building from nothing, even if most viewers don't know any of the history.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sidebar (kinda) but how do we count "#2 in US" these days?

I mean, would / should we count NJPW and LU as being "U.S."?

And do we count NXT as #2 since it's at least kinda/sorta distinct?
(I don't feel like Raw/Smackdown are distinct enough to count separately but I could make a case for NXT)

I'd let NXT fall under the WWE nest.

Personal rankings would be determined in how many guys people know on the roster.

1-WWE
2-ROH- probably has the most known roster.
3-Impact- falling quickly
4-NJWP- doesn't have regular shows so I'm not sure it can be higher.
5-LU- same as NJWP and I think more people know NJWP guys.
6-Chikara/CMLL/PGW/CZW - I think they all have a niche but its not broad enough to jump LU.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I'd let NXT fall under the WWE nest.

Personal rankings would be determined in how many guys people know on the roster.

1-WWE
2-ROH- probably has the most known roster.
3-Impact- falling quickly
4-NJWP- doesn't have regular shows so I'm not sure it can be higher.
5-LU- same as NJWP and I think more people know NJWP guys.
6-Chikara/CMLL/PGW/CZW - I think they all have a niche but its not broad enough to jump LU.

I think NJPW is probably neck-and-neck with ROH at this point, if you consider the imaging and/or impact their guys have here. Impact is a badly fading 4th to me, LU doesn't have the reach to pass them though. The rest, yeah. And the current NWA member(s) are at least one tier behind that group of four or so.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I think NJPW is probably neck-and-neck with ROH at this point, if you consider the imaging and/or impact their guys have here. Impact is a badly fading 4th to me, LU doesn't have the reach to pass them though. The rest, yeah. And the current NWA member(s) are at least one tier behind that group of four or so.

The only NWA branded territory that is anything right now is their version of Smoky Mountain which actually has TV. I'd put it on par with some of the smaller, but consistent, indies like the WCWC (former NWA territory) in Oregon which is part of something called the United Wrestling Network that claims members like Championship Wrestling from Hollywood (former NWA territory), CZW, and NECW with Steel Domain being a former member. So, basically it's probably a 7th or 8th tier indy and easily the biggest of the current ones using the NWA name.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I'd let NXT fall under the WWE nest.

Personal rankings would be determined in how many guys people know on the roster.

1-WWE
2-ROH- probably has the most known roster.
3-Impact- falling quickly
4-NJWP- doesn't have regular shows so I'm not sure it can be higher.
5-LU- same as NJWP and I think more people know NJWP guys.
6-Chikara/CMLL/PGW/CZW - I think they all have a niche but its not broad enough to jump LU.

I think I agree with this for the most part. My only real problem with CMLL is their seeming refusal to make their shows more easily available in the US. Also, LU is tanking to the point that I'm not sure it's actually above the top tier indies anymore. With the way that AAA has flubbed LU and their own attempt at PPV in the US recently, I'm surprised CMLL hasn't made some kind of deal to try and move into the market that appears to be waiting for someone to tap into it. LU is on a small TV channel and AAA puts all their shows on YouTube for free, so I'm thinking they're still ahead of CMLL for casual knowledge and access here.

I wonder what the possibilities are for some of the more established indies. PWG won't get bigger because Super Dragon doesn't want it to be. Chikara and CZW seem to have limits to how big they can be with their style. MCW Pro Wrestling has been around since 98 and ran 18 shows last year with people like the Hardys and The Wolves working matches. AAW has been around since 04. They've already run 8 shows this year with 11 more scheduled. Their most recent card had Chuck Taylor, Bob Holly, Mil Muertes, Veda Scott, Michael Elgin, AR Fox, Rey Fenix, and OI4K (Dave and Jake Crist). Sami Callahan is champion. Each has slowly built up a home location and then wisely branched out. They're not the only ones, so I guess the indy renaissance is happening.

I think my big question is, can those that are coming up equal or surpass where PWG/Chikara/CZW are now or will WWE simply steal their talent or buy them out?

[Mota]

Smash Wrestling in Toronto has just expanded out of the small rec center they were in which was great for a closed in tight feel, but very small time. Their home base is now the Phoenix Concert Hall, which is a huge step up, and far nicer than the Ring of Honor location at the Ted Reeve Arena (a scummy old hockey arena).
I tried to buy tickets for the ROH show in May, and no chance. Even the 12th row was sold out. There are general admission seats, but those to me are unwatchable, you actually have to sit behind the glass at the hockey arena, they don't even take down the glass. No thanks.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I think my big question is, can those that are coming up equal or surpass where PWG/Chikara/CZW are now or will WWE simply steal their talent or buy them out?

No chance in hell.

WWE is the MLB, ROH is AAA, everyone else is AA or A level minus NPB which is on at 3 AM so no one cares except for Meltzer who declares it's the greatest baseball out there, reminds you that you should have seen Hideo Nomo before he came to the US and gives 5* to any game in the Tokyo Dome. Basically if you aren't the WWE, you are just developing talent for them.

The WWE is so far ahead of everyone else right now. No one on TV wants to invest in wrestling anymore. Only chance would be if ESPN/FS1 decides they want original programming that isn't 4 people talking in a room and that's not happening.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

No chance in hell.

WWE is the MLB, ROH is AAA, everyone else is AA or A level minus NPB which is on at 3 AM so no one cares except for Meltzer who declares it's the greatest baseball out there, reminds you that you should have seen Hideo Nomo before he came to the US and gives 5* to any game in the Tokyo Dome. Basically if you aren't the WWE, you are just developing talent for them.

The WWE is so far ahead of everyone else right now. No one on TV wants to invest in wrestling anymore. Only chance would be if ESPN/FS1 decides they want original programming that isn't 4 people talking in a room and that's not happening.

You obviously don't read or listen to Meltzer very much. He spends about 70% of his time talking about WWE. 20% of his time about UFC, and then the other 10% split between Japan, TNA or ROH. Smaller companies like PWG rarely get mentioned at all on the podcast.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Mota

You obviously don't read or listen to Meltzer very much. He spends about 70% of his time talking about WWE. 20% of his time about UFC, and then the other 10% split between Japan, TNA or ROH. Smaller companies like PWG rarely get mentioned at all on the podcast.

I stopped listening to Meltzer because I'm on a 2,000 um or less audio diet.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I think NJPW is probably neck-and-neck with ROH at this point, if you consider the imaging and/or impact their guys have here. Impact is a badly fading 4th to me, LU doesn't have the reach to pass them though. The rest, yeah. And the current NWA member(s) are at least one tier behind that group of four or so.

I think the Okada/Omega match gave NJPW a nice boost in this country. Lot of people who don't pay attention to it looked into that match and Omega has to be the biggest wrestling star not with WWE at the moment.

I'd also treat NXT as a separate brand. They really don't do much crossover anymore with WWE talent. And if that's the case they have to be #2 in the US. Can't fathom any other promotion being able to sell out 15,000 plus seat arenas for a show.

[CrescentMoonie]

Completely pulling this out of nowhere, but could Corgan be up to something that makes a big splash? My total longshot is that he somehow parlays his connections with TV people and his history with Lagana and Conway into starting the NWA again in Chicago and using hometown boy CM Punk as his centerpiece. It's not going to happen, but that would be a pretty good way to get some eyeballs on the product right away.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Might as well put this here I think -- since roughly half the crowd was wearing wrestling related t-shirts -- saw Chris Jericho & Fozzy last night for the first time.

Solid, 16-17 song headlining set with a lot of pace. The showman performance you'd likely expect, although he really keeps the banter to a fairly low amount compared to his stick work in wrestling. We got a nice Coat of Jericho sighting (see below) and one nice quick wrestling reference right at the end of the show. Something about "you know what happens when you don't make enough noise ... {pause} ... {grin}"

Whether his music is to your taste or not, it's really pretty remarkable to me that there's a guy who can be professional caliber in two distinct fields, while being absolutely world-class in one of those.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Might as well put this here I think -- since roughly half the crowd was wearing wrestling related t-shirts -- saw Chris Jericho & Fozzy last night for the first time.

Solid, 16-17 song headlining set with a lot of pace. The showman performance you'd likely expect, although he really keeps the banter to a fairly low amount compared to his stick work in wrestling. We got a nice Coat of Jericho sighting (see below) and one nice quick wrestling reference right at the end of the show. Something about "you know what happens when you don't make enough noise ... {pause} ... {grin}"

Whether his music is to your taste or not, it's really pretty remarkable to me that there's a guy who can be professional caliber in two distinct fields, while being absolutely world-class in one of those.

His music is not that bad. Kind of an old school generic rock vibe to it. And that't not a bad thing with what's out there today.

[RainMaker]

This could be interesting.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

His music is not that bad. Kind of an old school generic rock vibe to it. And that't not a bad thing with what's out there today.

I've been a fan musically since he shifted from novelty covers (remember the whole "Mongoose McQueen" thing?) to doing original material. The influence of Rich Ward is huge, though I have to say that Billy Grey on the other guitar actually shined brighter on stage last Saturday. (such is the design of the material & the set I imagine)