So The Superbowl is Over (Unofficial 2007 NFL Draft/Free Agency Thread) - Page 14

General Mike · 03-20-2007, 07:23 PM

Why haven't the Giants done anything this offseason?

Logan · 03-20-2007, 07:38 PM

They just signed a Texans' FB to an offer sheet.

General Mike · 03-20-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

They just signed a Texans' FB to an offer sheet.

Yeah, what a blockbuster move.

The Giants have so many holes and haven't addressed any of them.

Vinatieri for Prez · 03-20-2007, 11:37 PM

Skins' dupe Lovie into taking Archuleta off their hands.

Vinatieri for Prez · 03-20-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Mike

Why haven't the Giants done anything this offseason?

Reuben Droughns not sexy enough for you?

JonInMiddleGA · 03-21-2007, 01:10 PM

ESPN says Matt Schaub appears to be headed for Houston in return for a 2nd round pick & possibly other considerations. Also says Anthony Wright might be the Falcons choice to be Vick's primary backup.

http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http:/...032114&srvc=sz

stevew · 03-21-2007, 01:13 PM

Ammo for the Calvin Johnson move-up? I wonder....

Ksyrup · 03-21-2007, 02:04 PM

Looks like the Falcons swap the 10th overall for the 8th, plus pick up 2nd round picks in 2007 and 2008. Interesting deal.

Ksyrup · 03-21-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Skins' dupe Lovie into taking Archuleta off their hands.

They're only on the hook for his base salaries, though, right, meaning they could cut him at any point and not take a cap hit?

stevew · 03-21-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

They're only on the hook for his base salaries, though, right, meaning they could cut him at any point and not take a cap hit?

Yeah, something like that. The skins only take a 1/6th ammoritizaiton of his salary on this years cap and push the rest back onto next year, cause he was traded instead of cut before june 1(which brings full ammoritization onto the cap).

And the Bears gave him a new 3 year 8.1m deal with 5m guaranteed...something to that effect.

ISiddiqui · 03-21-2007, 02:55 PM

And Matt Schaub moves to Houston...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2807051

Quote:

ATLANTA -- In a move that figures to have significant ramifications for the incumbent starters from both teams, the Atlanta Falcons on Wednesday agreed in principle to trade three-year veteran quarterback Matt Schaub to the Houston Texans.

When the trade is completed, Atlanta and Houston will flip-flop first-round picks in April's draft, and Atlanta will receive Houston's second-round picks in 2007 and 2008. The deal likely will be completed later Wednesday afternoon. Houston has the No. 8 pick in the first round of the draft, while Atlanta is slotted 10th.

Sources told ESPN.com that the trade is contingent upon the Texans reaching agreement with Schaub on a contract, and negotiations have already begun.

In acquiring Schaub, the Texans have ostensibly conceded that five-year veteran David Carr, the top overall player chosen in the 2002 draft and a quarterback in whom Houston has invested considerable time and money, is no longer their quarterback of the future. At the same time, the departure of Schaub indicates that new Falcons coach Bobby Petrino is sold on Michael Vick, who is said to have made a strong impression on the rookie sideline boss in their first few months working together.

Schaub, 25, has been the subject of trade rumors for each of the past two springs. ESPN.com reported last Friday in its "Tip Sheet" column that Falcons officials seemed prepared to begin listening to trade offers for him and had begun discussing possible replacements.

One of the strong candidates to replace Schaub as the backup to Vick, ESPN.com has learned, is Anthony Wright, who played with the Cincinnati Bengals in 2006.

Despite starting only two games in three seasons and winning neither of them, Schaub is highly regarded around the NFL. The former Virginia standout, a third-round pick by Atlanta in 2004, has completed 84 of 161 passes for 1,033 yards, with six touchdown passes and six interceptions.

Schaub was a restricted free agent this spring and the Falcons made him the highest qualifying offer possible, at $2.3 million. That qualifying offer meant that, had another team signed Schaub to an offer sheet, and Atlanta not matched it, the Falcons would have received first- and third-round draft choices as compensation.

MikeVic · 03-21-2007, 02:57 PM

That's a lot for Schaub I think...

Julio Riddols · 03-21-2007, 03:03 PM

I think the Texans just made a big mistake. I think David Carr has gotten a bad deal since being drafted- He'll probably reappear in the future and show the Texans why they should have kept him, I'd almost bet on it.

Schaub is not worth as much as they paid, and I doubt he does much better unless they can cut down the sack totals by about 10-15 sacks from last year.

All I know for sure is every time I have watched Carr play, his throws have been accurate and he has looked like he had the skills to be a starter at the very least, and possibly a pro bowl caliber QB.. He just hasn't had the help up front to allow him the time to do his job. Most QBs, if they got sacked that many times that many years in a row, they would eventually just curl up in a ball and regress. Last season, even with 43 sacks still allowed, Carr improved significantly IMO.

I am definitely going to be following this for the next few years.. Maybe he lands with a team who is shaky at QB and gets a second chance. Unless its Oakland, I think he definitely makes the Texans regret it.

ISiddiqui · 03-21-2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

That's a lot for Schaub I think...

Yep... I think its a steal for McKay and the Falcons... as long as they don't butcher the picks.

ISiddiqui · 03-21-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I am definitely going to be following this for the next few years.. Maybe he lands with a team who is shaky at QB and gets a second chance. Unless its Oakland, I think he definitely makes the Texans regret it.

Actually, I think Carr would do pretty well on the newly rebuilt Lions. They need a QB and they'd be smart to avoid Quinn in the draft, IMO.

gottimd · 03-21-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yep... I think its a steal for McKay and the Falcons... as long as they don't butcher the picks.

They could dupe the skins into trading their pick away, Denver does it all the time.

albionmoonlight · 03-21-2007, 03:10 PM

That does sound like a lot for Shaub, but if you go by the value chart and discount the second rounders into third rounders because they are in the future (a practice with which I disagree, but that seems to be common), then this works out to be a high second rounder in exchange for Shaub. Which seems more reasonable.

Logan · 03-21-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yep... I think its a steal for McKay and the Falcons... as long as they don't butcher the picks.

Way, way too much to give up for a QB that you have no idea about. Especially with that OL.

Even if they can't turn those picks into Calvin Johnson, moving up to #8 and adding two 2nd rounders is a very good start for Petrino.

Logan · 03-21-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

That does sound like a lot for Shaub, but if you go by the value chart and discount the second rounders into third rounders because they are in the future (a practice with which I disagree, but that seems to be common), then this works out to be a high second rounder in exchange for Shaub. Which seems more reasonable.

I'll definitely disagree with the discounting in this situation especially. Schaub served no purpose to the Falcons, because they would never be able to survive if Vick ended up not working out. They'd be better off blowing it up and starting over. So it's not like you're weakening yourself this year, for the benefit of when the picks come into play.

albionmoonlight · 03-21-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

I'll definitely disagree with the discounting in this situation especially. Schaub served no purpose to the Falcons, because they would never be able to survive if Vick ended up not working out. They'd be better off blowing it up and starting over. So it's not like you're weakening yourself this year, for the benefit of when the picks come into play.

Oh, I agree that Atlanta got the best of this. In fact, I would say that the discounting could be counteracted by the expected performance of the Shaub/Green Texans. Those might end up being pretty high second rounders.

Logan · 03-21-2007, 03:19 PM

Good point.

stevew · 03-21-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

They could dupe the skins into trading their pick away, Denver does it all the time.

Washington is Denver's 3am fat chick.

DeToxRox · 03-21-2007, 03:52 PM

This sounds like a move to move up and get Calvin Johnson ahead of TB as well. Now Atlanta has a higher first to offer the Lions or Browns, as well as two second round picks. They need the WR so Vick can put up or shut up, whether it happens though, we shall see.

Honolulu_Blue · 03-21-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

This sounds like a move to move up and get Calvin Johnson ahead of TB as well. Now Atlanta has a higher first to offer the Lions or Browns, as well as two second round picks. They need the WR so Vick can put up or shut up, whether it happens though, we shall see.

It'd be fun to see the Lions move back a bit in the draft and pick up some additional picks. It'd be interesting at least.

DeToxRox · 03-21-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

It'd be fun to see the Lions move back a bit in the draft and pick up some additional picks. It'd be interesting at least.

Agreed. I'd like to see Patrick Willis at 8 or 9. He ran a 4.37 at his pro day today. He is sick. You can't turn your back on drafting what could be the next Ray Lewis at #8 because he's a MLB. We need playmakers, especially defensivley, and a guy like Willis or Landry would be an amazing start.

Honolulu_Blue · 03-21-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Agreed. I'd like to see Patrick Willis at 8 or 9. He ran a 4.37 at his pro day today. He is sick. You can't turn your back on drafting what could be the next Ray Lewis at #8 because he's a MLB. We need playmakers, especially defensivley, and a guy like Willis or Landry would be an amazing start.

Agreed.

The Lions are fucked either way on this whole Calvin Johnson thing. If they take him, it wont work out at all and they will be a laughing stock. If they trade down, Calvin Johnson will turn out to be one of the best WRs ever and the Lions will be made a laughing stock for trading down instead of picking him.

DeToxRox · 03-21-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Agreed.

The Lions are fucked either way on this whole Calvin Johnson thing. If they take him, it wont work out at all and they will be a laughing stock. If they trade down, Calvin Johnson will turn out to be one of the best WRs ever and the Lions will be made a laughing stock for trading down instead of picking him.

Yeap. The thing to do is trade down though because if you can get an equally productive player in Willis, it off sets it. While he won't be LT, I look at it like this. If Johnson is Rice, and Willis is LT, is it really a bad trade? Give me the LB who can make an impact every play over the WR he touches the ball 6 or 7 times a game. Yes the WR makes match up problems, but the LB makes problems for everyone on offense.

I am reaching with the comparisons but I feel that's how it has to be approached.

Vinatieri for Prez · 03-21-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

They're only on the hook for his base salaries, though, right, meaning they could cut him at any point and not take a cap hit?

Not entirely. He reworked his deal and there is some guaranteed money involved with Chicago. But it's not huge money.

Vinatieri for Prez · 03-21-2007, 04:25 PM

I believe the Falcons whipped up on the Texans on this one. The simple fact is that Schaub is a backup. At best, you can say he is an "unproven" starter. For this, you give up 2 2nds and a jump to the 8th spot. That 2 spot jump is huge. By most accounts, there are 7-8 blue chippers in this draft. After that, the 10th pick may as well be the 15th pick. Texans just dropped out of the blue-chip section. All for Schaub!? Then, this clearly signals Carr is gone, meaning they aren't going to get much if anything for him in a trade.

st.cronin · 03-21-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I think the Texans just made a big mistake. I think David Carr has gotten a bad deal since being drafted- He'll probably reappear in the future and show the Texans why they should have kept him, I'd almost bet on it.

Schaub is not worth as much as they paid, and I doubt he does much better unless they can cut down the sack totals by about 10-15 sacks from last year.

All I know for sure is every time I have watched Carr play, his throws have been accurate and he has looked like he had the skills to be a starter at the very least, and possibly a pro bowl caliber QB.. He just hasn't had the help up front to allow him the time to do his job. Most QBs, if they got sacked that many times that many years in a row, they would eventually just curl up in a ball and regress. Last season, even with 43 sacks still allowed, Carr improved significantly IMO.

I am definitely going to be following this for the next few years.. Maybe he lands with a team who is shaky at QB and gets a second chance. Unless its Oakland, I think he definitely makes the Texans regret it.

Totally agree, I've always thought highly of Carr. Houston doesn't appear to have any idea what they're doing.

Ksyrup · 03-21-2007, 04:31 PM

History suggests a guy like Schaub is more likely to be Scott Mitchell/Rob Johnson than Brett Favre. But then, maybe Houston thought they were trading with Atlanta for Favre.

RedKingGold · 03-21-2007, 05:07 PM

I think the worst part of this move is that they have effectivelly killed all leverage to get something decent back for Carr. I really do believe that some team would have at least offered up a 3rd rounder for him. However, the Texans would likely only receive a 5th as best value.

Also, I think most Texan fans are shooting themselves in the face over the fact that if Houston had made this decision when they should have (one year ago), then Vince Young would be on the Texans.

RedKingGold · 03-21-2007, 05:08 PM

dola

Spoiler

Vinatieri for Prez · 03-21-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I think the worst part of this move is that they have effectivelly killed all leverage to get something decent back for Carr. I really do believe that some team would have at least offered up a 3rd rounder for him. However, the Texans would likely only receive a 5th as best value.

Also, I think most Texan fans are shooting themselves in the face over the fact that if Houston had made this decision when they should have (one year ago), then Vince Young would be on the Texans.

Hmm, let's see, the Texans could have:

Mario Williams, Matt Schaub, 10th overall pick, and 5th rounder (for Carr)

or

Vince Young, 2 2nd rounders, the 8th overall pick, a 3rd last year (for Carr), and probably at least another 2nd or 3rd from last year by dropping down 1 or 2 spots.

Indeed, a very tough choice.

JonInMiddleGA · 03-21-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

dola

Spoiler

At the risk of a sidetrack ... where in the bloody fucking hell did

Spoiler

come from?

edit to add: I know why, I'm just at a lost for when & how.

wade moore · 03-21-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

At the risk of a sidetrack ... where in the bloody fucking hell did

Spoiler

come from?

edit to add: I know why, I'm just at a lost for when & how.

Read new stickies much?

BishopMVP · 03-21-2007, 05:43 PM

Houston gave up too much for Schaub.

At the same time, I think the "David Carr is underrated and just needs a good OL" meme has gone a little too far. I used to be on that bandwagon, but once I actually watched him play I quickly jumped off. His completion % looks amazing because he checks off every play before even going through progressions. Maybe he's just emotionally scarred from playing behind that OL and will be a decent QB after a couple years spent as a backup, but it isn't/wasn't going to happen in Houston.

ISiddiqui · 03-21-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Totally agree, I've always thought highly of Carr. Houston doesn't appear to have any idea what they're doing.

And it isn't like Carr has never shown any promise. His 2004 was a pretty nice year, especially considering he's getting sacked all those times. True, perhaps the OL play has been blamed a lot, but they really do suck, and it isn't like that offense had many playmakers, with the exception of Andre Johnson.

FBPro · 03-21-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I totally see the Falcons trading into the top 2 or 3 picks to get Calvin Johnson.

Vick needs a WR; he seems to be as much of a sure thing as Fitzgerald was; and I imagine that picking a local boy can't hurt when you are trying to keep the Georgia Dome sold out.

After the Schaub deal I think this is a distinct possibility.

bhlloy · 03-21-2007, 08:09 PM

God the Texans management is horrible. In what universe is Matt Schaub two second round picks (not to mention falling from 8 to 10 in the first round) better than David Carr? Do they think he will be better throwing the ball flat on his back?

Even if you ignore the fact that last year they had the chance to take the hometown kid with the most upside of any QB in the last 10 years (and if you think Young is too risky, you take Leinart who is a sure thing to be a decent QB in the league for 6-8 years) to give Carr another chance, and then you don't improve the line or the talent around him at all, Carr gets killed all year and then you give up on him when the market for QB's is so pathetic all you can get is an overhyped backup who has a 1 in 10 chance of being as good as Young or Leinart?

Mario Williams had better be LT and Reggie White rolled into one for the next 10 years, then maybe the Texans can claim they came out of this ok.

RedKingGold · 03-21-2007, 08:55 PM

According to the NFL Draft chart:

8th overall (1400 points) + 2.7 (530) + 2.12 (460) = 2390 points

3rd overall = 2200 points.

So, if Cleveland does in fact want to trade down, it makes sense. In order for Atlanta to jump up to 2nd overall (2600 points) it would probably take at least another third rounder. For Atlanta to get Calvin Johnson, I'd think its worth it.

stevew · 03-21-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I think the worst part of this move is that they have effectivelly killed all leverage to get something decent back for Carr. I really do believe that some team would have at least offered up a 3rd rounder for him. However, the Texans would likely only receive a 5th as best value.

Also, I think most Texan fans are shooting themselves in the face over the fact that if Houston had made this decision when they should have (one year ago), then Vince Young would be on the Texans.

Yeah, the boneheaded-ness move of the century was picking up Carr's 2 year backend option last year around FA time. Once you pick up that, it means you aren't going to draft a QB and suddenly your trade down options are a bit limited. If he somehow had a great year last year, you still could control him via the franchise tag, and he'd actually earn a new contract.

Honolulu_Blue · 03-21-2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

According to the NFL Draft chart:

8th overall (1400 points) + 2.7 (530) + 2.12 (460) = 2390 points

3rd overall = 2200 points.

So, if Cleveland does in fact want to trade down, it makes sense. In order for Atlanta to jump up to 2nd overall (2600 points) it would probably take at least another third rounder. For Atlanta to get Calvin Johnson, I'd think its worth it.

As a Lions' fan, I would not be opposed to the team making such a trade with Atlanta.

JonInMiddleGA · 03-21-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade moore

Read new stickies much?

Apparently not.

stevew · 03-21-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

As a Lions' fan, I would not be opposed to the team making such a trade with Atlanta.

Yeah, i think if the Raiders don't trade down, that as soon as the Raiders pick, the Lions will take that package from ATL and move down(assuming raiders don't take Johnson). The lions would probably benefit just as much from grabbing someone like LaRon Landry at #8 and 2 additional 2nds as they would from taking someone in slot 2 and paying mega bucks.

damnMikeBrown · 03-21-2007, 11:27 PM

I know this isn't popular, but I really like what I've seen of Schaub. Yes, yes, it was all preseason work really...but he always looked sensational. Now, I don't know if anybody can look good behind the Texan's line, Carr, Schaub, Randall Cunningham...but I do like Schaub as a passer.

I think it will prove out that he is worth the second rounder. The 2nd second round pick..I dunno. The two spot flip-flop in the first?...let you know in about 4 years.

Vinatieri for Prez · 03-22-2007, 12:35 AM

Matt Schaub looking good in preseason.

I think you know what that gets you.

Crapshoot · 03-22-2007, 12:48 AM

FWIW, the 2nd No 2 is next year, which I think is an important consideration. As for the Falcons, how many 1st Round Picks can they spend on WR's (Peerless Price via trade, Jenkins, Roddy White, etc etc) ?

albionmoonlight · 03-22-2007, 07:36 AM

If I were the Raiders, I would start really looking like I was planning to take Johnson. He seems to be the "trade up to get" guy in this draft. I would not let that leverage fall to Detroit or Cleveland.

Of course, if I were the Raiders, I would not have signed Aaron Brooks to be the savior of the franchise and probably would not have the #1 overall pick as a result.

JPhillips · 03-22-2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

As a Lions' fan, I would not be opposed to the team making such a trade with Atlanta.

Do you really want Matt Millen making more draft picks?

03-21-2007, 01:10 PM	#656
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	ESPN says Matt Schaub appears to be headed for Houston in return for a 2nd round pick & possibly other considerations. Also says Anthony Wright might be the Falcons choice to be Vick's primary backup. http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http:/...032114&srvc=sz __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

03-21-2007, 02:04 PM	#658
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	Looks like the Falcons swap the 10th overall for the 8th, plus pick up 2nd round picks in 2007 and 2008. Interesting deal. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

03-21-2007, 03:03 PM	#663
Julio Riddols College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bryson Shitty, NC	I think the Texans just made a big mistake. I think David Carr has gotten a bad deal since being drafted- He'll probably reappear in the future and show the Texans why they should have kept him, I'd almost bet on it. Schaub is not worth as much as they paid, and I doubt he does much better unless they can cut down the sack totals by about 10-15 sacks from last year. All I know for sure is every time I have watched Carr play, his throws have been accurate and he has looked like he had the skills to be a starter at the very least, and possibly a pro bowl caliber QB.. He just hasn't had the help up front to allow him the time to do his job. Most QBs, if they got sacked that many times that many years in a row, they would eventually just curl up in a ball and regress. Last season, even with 43 sacks still allowed, Carr improved significantly IMO. I am definitely going to be following this for the next few years.. Maybe he lands with a team who is shaky at QB and gets a second chance. Unless its Oakland, I think he definitely makes the Texans regret it. __________________ Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused. FUCK EA

03-21-2007, 04:31 PM	#681
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	History suggests a guy like Schaub is more likely to be Scott Mitchell/Rob Johnson than Brett Favre. But then, maybe Houston thought they were trading with Atlanta for Favre. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

03-21-2007, 05:08 PM	#683
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	dola Spoiler Charlie Casserly sucks Last edited by RedKingGold : 03-21-2007 at 05:10 PM.

03-20-2007, 07:23 PM	#651
General Mike Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The State of Rutgers	Why haven't the Giants done anything this offseason?

03-20-2007, 07:38 PM	#652
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	They just signed a Texans' FB to an offer sheet.

03-20-2007, 11:37 PM	#654
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	Skins' dupe Lovie into taking Archuleta off their hands.

03-21-2007, 01:13 PM	#657
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Ammo for the Calvin Johnson move-up? I wonder....

03-21-2007, 02:57 PM	#662
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	That's a lot for Schaub I think...

03-21-2007, 03:10 PM	#667
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	That does sound like a lot for Shaub, but if you go by the value chart and discount the second rounders into third rounders because they are in the future (a practice with which I disagree, but that seems to be common), then this works out to be a high second rounder in exchange for Shaub. Which seems more reasonable.

03-21-2007, 03:19 PM	#671
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	Good point.

03-21-2007, 03:52 PM	#673
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	This sounds like a move to move up and get Calvin Johnson ahead of TB as well. Now Atlanta has a higher first to offer the Lions or Browns, as well as two second round picks. They need the WR so Vick can put up or shut up, whether it happens though, we shall see.

03-21-2007, 04:25 PM	#679
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	I believe the Falcons whipped up on the Texans on this one. The simple fact is that Schaub is a backup. At best, you can say he is an "unproven" starter. For this, you give up 2 2nds and a jump to the 8th spot. That 2 spot jump is huge. By most accounts, there are 7-8 blue chippers in this draft. After that, the 10th pick may as well be the 15th pick. Texans just dropped out of the blue-chip section. All for Schaub!? Then, this clearly signals Carr is gone, meaning they aren't going to get much if anything for him in a trade.

03-21-2007, 05:07 PM	#682
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	I think the worst part of this move is that they have effectivelly killed all leverage to get something decent back for Carr. I really do believe that some team would have at least offered up a 3rd rounder for him. However, the Texans would likely only receive a 5th as best value. Also, I think most Texan fans are shooting themselves in the face over the fact that if Houston had made this decision when they should have (one year ago), then Vince Young would be on the Texans.

03-21-2007, 05:43 PM	#687
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	Houston gave up too much for Schaub. At the same time, I think the "David Carr is underrated and just needs a good OL" meme has gone a little too far. I used to be on that bandwagon, but once I actually watched him play I quickly jumped off. His completion % looks amazing because he checks off every play before even going through progressions. Maybe he's just emotionally scarred from playing behind that OL and will be a decent QB after a couple years spent as a backup, but it isn't/wasn't going to happen in Houston.

03-21-2007, 08:09 PM	#690
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	God the Texans management is horrible. In what universe is Matt Schaub two second round picks (not to mention falling from 8 to 10 in the first round) better than David Carr? Do they think he will be better throwing the ball flat on his back? Even if you ignore the fact that last year they had the chance to take the hometown kid with the most upside of any QB in the last 10 years (and if you think Young is too risky, you take Leinart who is a sure thing to be a decent QB in the league for 6-8 years) to give Carr another chance, and then you don't improve the line or the talent around him at all, Carr gets killed all year and then you give up on him when the market for QB's is so pathetic all you can get is an overhyped backup who has a 1 in 10 chance of being as good as Young or Leinart? Mario Williams had better be LT and Reggie White rolled into one for the next 10 years, then maybe the Texans can claim they came out of this ok.

03-21-2007, 08:55 PM	#691
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	According to the NFL Draft chart: 8th overall (1400 points) + 2.7 (530) + 2.12 (460) = 2390 points 3rd overall = 2200 points. So, if Cleveland does in fact want to trade down, it makes sense. In order for Atlanta to jump up to 2nd overall (2600 points) it would probably take at least another third rounder. For Atlanta to get Calvin Johnson, I'd think its worth it.

03-21-2007, 11:27 PM	#696
damnMikeBrown College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Cincinnati, OH	I know this isn't popular, but I really like what I've seen of Schaub. Yes, yes, it was all preseason work really...but he always looked sensational. Now, I don't know if anybody can look good behind the Texan's line, Carr, Schaub, Randall Cunningham...but I do like Schaub as a passer. I think it will prove out that he is worth the second rounder. The 2nd second round pick..I dunno. The two spot flip-flop in the first?...let you know in about 4 years.

03-22-2007, 12:35 AM	#697
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	Matt Schaub looking good in preseason. I think you know what that gets you.

03-22-2007, 12:48 AM	#698
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	FWIW, the 2nd No 2 is next year, which I think is an important consideration. As for the Falcons, how many 1st Round Picks can they spend on WR's (Peerless Price via trade, Jenkins, Roddy White, etc etc) ?

03-22-2007, 07:36 AM	#699
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	If I were the Raiders, I would start really looking like I was planning to take Johnson. He seems to be the "trade up to get" guy in this draft. I would not let that leverage fall to Detroit or Cleveland. Of course, if I were the Raiders, I would not have signed Aaron Brooks to be the savior of the franchise and probably would not have the #1 overall pick as a result.

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