Console Discussion/E3/Tokyo Game Show Thread

[cartman]

Microsoft announces a fitness app available for free to Xbox Live Gold members on Xbox One.

Microsoft wants you to work off your flab with Xbox Fitness | Ars Technica

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting poll. I don't think it's terribly surprising that the PS3 is being favored by consumers by a roughly 60/40 margin. However, I was a bit surprised that the PS3 was being favored by the under 40 crowd by a 41/27 margin. I would have thought that would have been much tighter than that given that the younger crowd has more brand loyalty to the Xbox.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...technologyNews

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Interesting poll. I don't think it's terribly surprising that the PS3 is being favored by consumers by a roughly 60/40 margin. However, I was a bit surprised that the PS3 was being favored by the under 40 crowd by a 41/27 margin. I would have thought that would have been much tighter than that given that the younger crowd has more brand loyalty to the Xbox.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...technologyNews

I don't think you actually read what you post.. and I often wonder if you just google "ps4 vs xbox1" and look for anything that shows Sony in a positive light.

26 percent of 1,297 people surveyed online last week say they are likely to purchase the new PlayStation 4 when available, versus 15 percent opting for the Xbox One.

Of that group of 408 people, 41 percent picked Sony's PS4 versus 27 percent for Microsoft's Xbox One

64 percent of total respondents said they would not buy any new game hardware at all this season, when posed with choices ranging from the Xbox and PS4 to Nintendo's 2DS and Valve's Steam Box.

Not much of a poll.. but anyone who has followed the ps4 vs xb1 saga can pretty much use common sense and know the ps4 would rank higher in initial sales than the xb1, if not for the $100 cheaper price alone.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I don't think you actually read what you post.. and I often wonder if you just google "ps4 vs xbox1" and look for anything that shows Sony in a positive light.

Not much of a poll.. but anyone who has followed the ps4 vs xb1 saga can pretty much use common sense and know the ps4 would rank higher in initial sales than the xb1, if not for the $100 cheaper price alone.

Pray tell, what was amiss in the report vs. what I typed? I said the split was "roughly 60/40 in favor of the PS3". As you correctly cited, the story was 26% PS4 and 15% X1, which amounts to a 63.4% of purchasers overall would purchase a PS4 and 36.6% of purchasers overall would purchase a X1. I suppose if anything, my rough estimate wasn't fair to the PS4 in that case.

I said I was surprised about the 41/27 breakdown under 40, which you also cited. What did I miss there?

You also correctly cited that 64% aren't buying right off the bat, which isn't a number I cited because I was focusing on the raw numbers of people who were purchasing. With that said, anyone could figure out that the majority of the people aren't buying a PS4/X1 from the responses that I was cited.

There's a reason that the PS4 is getting more positive publicity and it's not because MBBF is pumping sunshine through Google queries or because you can now exercise on your X1.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Pray tell, what was amiss in the report vs. what I typed? I said the split was "roughly 60/40 in favor of the PS3". As you correctly cited, the story was 26% PS4 and 15% X1, which amounts to a 63.4% of purchasers overall would purchase a PS4 and 36.6% of purchasers overall would purchase a X1. I suppose if anything, my rough estimate wasn't fair to the PS4 in that case.

You said:

Originally Posted by MBBF

I don't think it's terribly surprising that the PS3 is being favored by consumers by a roughly 60/40 margin

Correct might have been:

Originally Posted by Correction

I don't think it's terribly surprising that "None of the above" is favored by consumers by a roughly 60/40 margin.

Based on past arguments, you would have continued with:

Originally Posted by MBBF-ifier

Among those hardy few who are actually going to buy a next-gen console, the PS4 is favored by a roughly 60/40 margin, which is surprising given the $100 price difference and how much awesomer the hardware clearly is, I would have expected this to be higher

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

You said:



Correct might have been:



Based on past arguments, you would have continued with:

Honestly, I'm just surprised he didn't go with a conclusion of something like, "XBox One planned purchasers outnumbered nearly 6 to 1 by those who don't view the console favorably."

[nilodor]

Just saw the next gen NBA 2k14 trailer. I'm wondering if you guys think the graphics they are showing will be the actual ones they deliver this time instead of the whole rendered issue that happened the last time new consoles came out?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Honestly, I'm just surprised he didn't go with a conclusion of something like, "XBox One planned purchasers outnumbered nearly 6 to 1 by those who don't view the console favorably."

No doubt...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

You said:

Correct might have been:

Based on past arguments, you would have continued with:

Outside of leaving out that it was favored by consumers 60/40 who plan on purchasing next gen consoles, nothing was inaccurate. But it made for a good reason for a couple of posters to nit-pick. Much ado about nothing.

[gstelmack]

"Inaccurate" and "telling a complete story" are two very different things. You sound like marketing...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

"Inaccurate" and "telling a complete story" are two very different things. You sound like marketing...

There was nothing inaccurate there. You sound like debate class.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

There was nothing inaccurate there. You sound like debate class.

Yes, there was. You're splitting hairs on what constitutes "consumers" and choosing "the subset of consumers who'll prove out the narrative I'm trying to shape".

[Mota]

I polled my 3 best friends and all 3 of them are going with the Xbox One this holiday season.

Sorry boys, looks like it's going to be a rough holiday for Sony!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sony says that PS Eye was held out to keep price point at $399.

Sony abandoned plans to bundle Eye camera with PS4 to keep price down | Joystiq

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Sony says that PS Eye was held out to keep price point at $399.

Sony abandoned plans to bundle Eye camera with PS4 to keep price down | Joystiq

And that decision means that unless a price drop on the core hardware comes quickly so that the camera can quickly be bundled in, it will probably not amount to much as a peripheral.

History shows us that it's exceedingly rare for a peripheral to get even a fraction of the install base of the core hardware. The Wii Balance Board is one of the few exceptions to that rule.

That's a big part of why Microsoft is bundling the Kinect. They're betting big on it being a significant part of their ability to retain and grow the base they cultivated in this generation. I'm not sure I agree with them that it WILL be, but I certainly agree that if they had chosen to unbundle the Kinect, it never WOULD be.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

And that decision means that unless a price drop on the core hardware comes quickly so that the camera can quickly be bundled in, it will probably not amount to much as a peripheral.

History shows us that it's exceedingly rare for a peripheral to get even a fraction of the install base of the core hardware. The Wii Balance Board is one of the few exceptions to that rule.

That's a big part of why Microsoft is bundling the Kinect. They're betting big on it being a significant part of their ability to retain and grow the base they cultivated in this generation. I'm not sure I agree with them that it WILL be, but I certainly agree that if they had chosen to unbundle the Kinect, it never WOULD be.

Absolutely correct. It won't amount to a big peripheral and they made the right decision to make the console as cheap as possible and avoid connecting any possible success or failure to a camera peripheral. Price is going to be extremely important this generation. It won't be for everyone certainly, but I'd find it hard to believe that if you took a poll of purchasers once the holiday season is over that price that price wouldn't be cited most often as the reason for selecting a system.

[mckerney]

So I see telling us what the results would be of a hypothetical poll has become easier than misrepresenting the results of a real one.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Absolutely correct. The Eye won't amount to a big peripheral and they made the right decision to make the console as cheap as possible and avoid connecting any possible success or failure to a camera peripheral.

You're either looking at it backwards or being willfully cognitively dissonant.

Microsoft aren't connecting the console's success/failure to the Kinect. They're connecting Kinect's success/failure to Xbox One. Kinect can't be the success Microsoft clearly thinks it can be as a standalone peripheral, but neither is Kinect an albatross that will prevent Microsoft from maximizing their units sold through.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'd find it hard to believe that if you took a poll of purchasers once the holiday season is over that price that price wouldn't be cited most often as the reason for selecting a system.

BREAKING EXCLUSIVE: MBBF Predicting Big Holiday Season For Ouya
Price may make it #1 console this generation according to the market analyst

[PurdueBrad]

If true, this certainly makes it easier to hit that $399 price point!

Chinese students forced to work unpaid in PS4 factory

[cartman]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

or being willfully cognitively dissonant.

Let me show you my shocked face..............................

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

but neither is Kinect an albatross that will prevent Microsoft from maximizing their units sold through.

You're stating that as though it's a fact. I don't think it's anywhere remotely close to that point. We'll see.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You're stating that as though it's a fact.

That's rich, coming from you.

I don't think it's anywhere remotely close to that point. We'll see.

It's the one feature remotely different between the two consoles. Virtually everything else is shades of grey. There is nobody who is going to look at Xbox One and say "Well, I'd buy it if it didn't come with that camera." They might have an issue with the price, but frankly, that's not impactful for early adopters. Someone who's going to be an early adopter is going to be so whether the price is $400 or $500. Get outside that launch window, start talking about the middle of FY 2014, and $500 starts becoming a sticking point. Microsoft sold about 300k Xbox 360s in November 2005, and about 44.5 million to date in the US. That despite a $400 price point for the high-end model that was, up to that time, second only to the 3DO for the highest launch price point in US gaming history.

That high-end model has only seen about a $100 price drop over the years, and you're still talking about 44.5 million units sold domestically. That's third, all-time, in the US market, behind the PS2 and the Wii, and Xbox 360 is so close behind Wii that personal space is being invaded.

That's how much the price mattered to the long-term success of the console.

I'll say it again - if Xbox One bombs, it won't be Kinect that drags it down. It probably won't even be the $500 price point that drags it down.

If anything, it will be mistrust of Microsoft, either residual from the RROD years, the "here's all the shit you're gonna HATE lumped into this console whoops lol our bad nevermind" or both.

It won't be Kinect. Kinect just won't stand out enough compared to the other landmines Microsoft has stepped on in the last five or six years.

[chadritt]

Id consider it if it didnt have the Kinect. Not because i dont like the Kinect, which I dont, but because its inclusion indicates that they intend to make it a major part of their games which makes me less interested in playing them.

ETA: Add the 100 dollar difference and Im far more likely to eventually buy a PS4. The games that are the same on each system arent really relevant but the console exclusives on the XBone are ones that I know I wont enjoy due to the kinect.

[PurdueBrad]

I thought this was pretty interesting given a lot of rumors regarding whether or not X-Box One would have enough units available through December 31st:

XBox One expected to ship almost three times more than PS4 this year

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

I thought this was pretty interesting given a lot of rumors regarding whether or not X-Box One would have enough units available through December 31st:

XBox One expected to ship almost three times more than PS4 this year

That's a pretty old article. Don't believe that's accurate. I know that Microsoft had to reduce their production forecast for 4Q 2013 due to poor yields on multiple parts of the Xbox One system.

Login to DIGITIMES archive & research

We don't have nearly as firm numbers in regards to the PS4, but Tretton in this interview says the the production yields for the PS4 have been 'phenomenal'.

PS4 has "phenomenal" production yields | GamesIndustry International

This article has more detailed numbers on expected number of units shipped in 2013 to North America. They expect 2.3M PS4's and 2.1M Xbox One's. I know that Sony has said that they expect equal demand in Europe as well.

Sales of PlayStation 4, Xbox Next to Hit Around 5 Million in Total in 2013 - X-bit labs

[PurdueBrad]

So over the last two weeks the buzz has worn off. I actually ended up with both systems on pre-order. Two weeks ago I cancelled the PS4 and then tonight I decided to cancel the X-Box One. I know I've seen some threads about this in the past but I do believe I may have capped out in terms of the consoles (at least until my 4 year old shows more interest). I picked up GTA V and NCAA 14 but have probably spent 12 hours on GTA and 15 hours on NCAA and haven't picked either one up in two or three weeks.

[cartman]

Sony loses yet another launch title, this one from their own studios and less than a month before the console release....................................

Planned PS4 launch title DriveClub delayed until 2014 | Ars Technica

[SackAttack]

Looks Like Target Is Canceling PS4 Preorder Bundles For Delayed Games

Kind of a bullshit move by Target, if you ask me. Not sure that'll have much of an impact on the PS4 launch, though.

This was cool, though:

Xbox Wire

Today, as a part of the “Week of Xbox Live,” we’re excited to announce that we are making Games with Gold an ongoing benefit for Xbox Live Gold members on Xbox 360.

PlayStation Plus has generally had a better selection of games in their "Instant Game Library," but Xbox Live lets you keep the games even if your subscription lapses. If they start rolling out heavier hitters, or shift to a similar business model where they say "Here's a bunch of games all at once; we'll refresh that every once in a while," that could get interesting.

[SackAttack]

PS4 Day-One Patch Is 300 MB, Enables Online Multiplayer And More

...lol.

Online multiplayer, okay. It's a goofy way of saying it, but if they've updated the firmware and the patch is required, you couldn't play online anyway without the firmware patch. At 300 MB, I'm virtually certain that it is, in fact, a firmware update, not an actual "turn on these features."

Most of the ones listed are online features of one shade or another, so okay - I get that if you can't log into PSN (which you can't do if you aren't up-to-date on "required" firmware, even on PS3) - you couldn't use those features.

But watching blu-ray/DVD? What the actual fuck, Sony?

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

But watching blu-ray/DVD? What the actual fuck, Sony?

Is there some kind of licensing fee they are trying to avoid by removing blu ray/DVD from the boxed product? I remember that Windows removed DVD playback due to decoder licensing costs.

[chadritt]

or it was just a minor firmware update for the player and it worked just fine out of the box.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

PS4 Day-One Patch Is 300 MB, Enables Online Multiplayer And More

...lol.

Online multiplayer, okay. It's a goofy way of saying it, but if they've updated the firmware and the patch is required, you couldn't play online anyway without the firmware patch. At 300 MB, I'm virtually certain that it is, in fact, a firmware update, not an actual "turn on these features."

Most of the ones listed are online features of one shade or another, so okay - I get that if you can't log into PSN (which you can't do if you aren't up-to-date on "required" firmware, even on PS3) - you couldn't use those features.

But watching blu-ray/DVD? What the actual fuck, Sony?

I decided to wait until tax time to pick up either console. Figured they will have many of the bugs worked out by then.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I decided to wait until tax time to pick up either console. Figured they will have many of the bugs worked out by then.

Me too.

[mckerney]

I've still got way too many PS3 games to finish to consider picking up a next gen console.

[Doug5984]

Gave my PS4 preorder to someone else at cost, still on the fence about the Xbox One... may just wait until after the new year like a few others have said. Won't have much time to play them anyway until then.... Checked on ebay, and really couldn't make much if I sold my preorder there either.

[RainMaker]

I'm going to wait. Just don't feel like I'm getting much. I already don't play many games on the console and nothing with the new ones is blowing me away. Plus there are so many good games for the old systems that you can get for cheap that I would likely enjoy more.

I really hate the console stuff. It's such a negative for consumers, especially with this artificial war that creates these terrible exclusive agreements. And a bunch of bullshit arbitrary restrictions that prevent anyone but high budget AAA titles from succeeding.

Regardless, I think console gaming will be different this gen. I think it's slowly going to die in terms of being a "gaming" device. Not enough companies making high quality games that are worth playing on a console. The lineup alone for these next gen systems is utter shit.

[spleen1015]

I'll get a next gen console when there is a game I want to play. There's nothing at launch for me.

I'm finding that I'm enjoying PC games more these days anyway.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

PS4 Day-One Patch Is 300 MB, Enables Online Multiplayer And More

...lol.

Online multiplayer, okay. It's a goofy way of saying it, but if they've updated the firmware and the patch is required, you couldn't play online anyway without the firmware patch. At 300 MB, I'm virtually certain that it is, in fact, a firmware update, not an actual "turn on these features."

Most of the ones listed are online features of one shade or another, so okay - I get that if you can't log into PSN (which you can't do if you aren't up-to-date on "required" firmware, even on PS3) - you couldn't use those features.

But watching blu-ray/DVD? What the actual fuck, Sony?

Just now notice this post. I'd be shocked if this isn't related to piracy prevention. Also, there were some boxes that got out last generation before release and those people were able to leak info before that point. I'm guessing they are trying to curtail that as well. The X1 has a large patch as well on Day 1.

Now, the REAL problem that should have been the one you are pointing out is that both companies are releasing big software changes on Day 1. I see this as the first moment that could define a console generation. IF either one of these patches goes bad on either system, it will go viral in a heartbeat and turn the generation on its head before it even gets started. That's what people should really be watching. If both huge patches work just fine, no big deal.

[spleen1015]

Nothing worse than waiting months for a new console to come out, pick it up at midnight only to go home and wait an hour or 2 for an update to get applied.

They both fail.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Nothing worse than waiting months for a new console to come out, pick it up at midnight only to go home and wait an hour or 2 for an update to get applied.

They both fail.

It's the new norm whether we like it or not.

Saw another interesting writeup about the new Killzone: ShadowFall game. Says that the original size of the files was 290GB and the compressed retail version is 40GB. This is why we're not ready for formats like MS originally proposed on their console. Just way too much file size when we have an American internet infrastructure that is as lacking as it currently is. If people want their consoles to work in that way, they need companies like Google Fiber to succeed and drive new infrastructure improvements so we have better internet access.

'Killzone: Shadow Fall' Used To Be A Massive 290GB - Forbes

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Just now notice this post. I'd be shocked if this isn't related to piracy prevention. Also, there were some boxes that got out last generation before release and those people were able to leak info before that point. I'm guessing they are trying to curtail that as well. The X1 has a large patch as well on Day 1.

Now, the REAL problem that should have been the one you are pointing out is that both companies are releasing big software changes on Day 1. I see this as the first moment that could define a console generation. IF either one of these patches goes bad on either system, it will go viral in a heartbeat and turn the generation on its head before it even gets started. That's what people should really be watching. If both huge patches work just fine, no big deal.

Come on, now. No, that's not the "real problem." Microsoft has a bigass patch because they're walking back a bunch of things the console was designed to do that people said 'uh, fuck that' to.

Sony has a day-one patch because...why, exactly? What it sounds like is they had the same ideas in mind with respect to an always-on connection being necessary, and decided to let Microsoft take the fall for that one. There is virtually no reason for a firmware update being necessary to enable Blu-ray playback, for example.

For online play, sure. If there's new firmware and they've identified a weakness in the console this close to launch, I can see a download being necessary before you can go online.

But it also impacting Blu-ray suggests to me that even the most basic functions of the PS4 were ideated, before Microsoft's meltdown, as necessitating an always-on connection.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Sony has a day-one patch because...why, exactly? What it sounds like is they had the same ideas in mind with respect to an always-on connection being necessary, and decided to let Microsoft take the fall for that one. There is virtually no reason for a firmware update being necessary to enable Blu-ray playback, for example.

For online play, sure. If there's new firmware and they've identified a weakness in the console this close to launch, I can see a download being necessary before you can go online.

It's likely needed because the OS wasn't finished when consoles went into production and they're still working on it since the suspend/resume won't be added until after launch.

[Icy]

I have a ps4 preordered but don't know what to do.

I still have some Ps3 games not finished, like "last of us" and GTA5, plus games that already own and that won't be out for PS4 until next season, like NHL14 and MLB the show.

As for the new games i want on Ps4, mainly are NBA2k14, FIFA14 and Battlefield 4, but i have all them already or waiting for release on PC so i should be able to play them on PC without needing a PS4.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by mckerney

It's likely needed because the OS wasn't finished when consoles went into production and they're still working on it since the suspend/resume won't be added until after launch.

Really? When is the suspend/resume function supposed to be live? That is a major attraction for me and why I was going to be a day 1 adopter.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Really? When is the suspend/resume function supposed to be live? That is a major attraction for me and why I was going to be a day 1 adopter.

This is all they've said about it, at least as far as I know

Some features will not be available at launch, such as “suspend/resume mode” which is a feature that keeps the PS4 system in a low power state and promptly takes users back to their game. We will provide additional information about system software update version 1.50 and features available at the PS4 system’s launch, and features that will be available after launch, in the near future.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by mckerney

It's likely needed because the OS wasn't finished when consoles went into production and they're still working on it since the suspend/resume won't be added until after launch.

Don't know about the suspend/resume part, but I'm sure you're correct on the first part. They put PS4's into production at least a month before the X1.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Some early rumors on Xbox One interface issues. Still some time to work it out.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Article over at Kotaku surrounding the rumors.

Rumored Xbox One Launch Issues Lead To Lots Of Questions

[MizzouRah]

More tweets..