Werewolf IV - River of Darkness

[Tigercat]

Keep in mind, if you believe Sirfozzie because of dreams
KWhitt and Jeff must be defended by the same logic, for they have proven(Kwhitt with the correct names and order of dreams, Jeff by posting the dream in its entirety) they had the dreams. If BrianD does get lynched the game should end on the spot, or the reason for believeing Sirfozzie was not a good one.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I believe him because of the dream posts. He has also made better arguments in his favor/defense. You posted before if anyone else was suspicious of SirFoz and I am one that was/is. I did notice that he is not mentioned in the dreams of you, Fouts or Fonzie which I find odd. I think of all the dream posters, someone is definitely not telling the truth. I said I was 99.99%, but there is certainly a little niggling suspicion there.

However, I also think that BrianD has done a flimsy job of defending himself. I'm not convinced by his arguments. To be fair to him, he walked right into SirFozzie's play and it is certainly possible that BrianD is really the doctor and SirFozzie trapped him. I'm not convinced that's the case though.

I'm not sure what more I could do to defend myself. I've given you my role, I've told you about my dreams, and I discussed how I used the dreams to fall in with Lathum and protect those he named (Tiger).

After I named my role, SirFozzie jumped in and claimed the same role. He knows I can't prove my role. It was a ballsy move, but it seems to have worked. I started out believing that he pulled that move in a classic Airhog ploy...get the accusations flying and see what shakes out...make a real vote at the end. I'm now thinking that he may be casting false suspicion on me deliberately. According to the opening setting for the game, the floods usually last a week or slightly less. That means that there is probably only a couple of days left. Last nights description seemed to confirm that. The water rose, but now the sun came out so there is likely to be no more rain and a lowering of the water level.

With all of the hints dropped about the dreams by Taz, it became pretty clear that dreams were more widespread than people thought. SirFozzie brought it out into the open, so he now has a lot of power. If he can ride the tails of that power, he should be able to coast through the last few days in the village. Again, he is playing a ballsy game, and it looks like it is working for him.

[jeff061]

Reading back, it's certainly possible Des and Lathum were working together. They agreed a lot early on and between each other sold the fact that deacon was evil and the sword meant nothing. Maybe Lathum played us? Maybe Hog and Deacon were knights?

I'm not really believing that, I'm just trying to come up with possibilities on who else could be playing for the other side. Everyone seems equally squeaky clean on the surface, other than Brian.

I think the real reason I'm focusing on Des and company is Taz's post about dreams and their inability to see them.

[jeff061]

After I named my role, SirFozzie jumped in and claimed the same role

It's not that simple though, he baited you into saying doctor. If you had said something else it wouldn't of worked.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Keep in mind, if you believe Sirfozzie because of dreams
KWhitt and Jeff must be defended by the same logic, for they have proven(Kwhitt with the correct names and order of dreams, Jeff by posting the dream in its entirety) they had the dreams. If BrianD does get lynched the game should end on the spot, or the reason for believeing Sirfozzie was not a good one.

I am actually hopeful that the game will end on the spot if BrianD is lynched. Hopeful, but by no means certain. SirFozzie has to know that the spotlight will be on him if the game continues after the lynching of BrianD. So he has a day. If he had stayed silent, then would he have gained more time to do whatever evil thing he is trying to do?

Of course, suspicion might be easily turned on me and Swaggs as well, given that no one is totally convinced that we are knights (I understand why no one is). I am going to go back and read through all the posts to try and make sure the decision I make is based on the best possible information, but right now my vote stands. Maybe examination of the whole sequence of dream posts will bring something to light. Not knowing all the possible roles in the game makes it very difficult to attach people to anything specific.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I am actually hopeful that the game will end on the spot if BrianD is lynched. Hopeful, but by no means certain. SirFozzie has to know that the spotlight will be on him if the game continues after the lynching of BrianD. So he has a day. If he had stayed silent, then would he have gained more time to do whatever evil thing he is trying to do?

Of course, suspicion might be easily turned on me and Swaggs as well, given that no one is totally convinced that we are knights (I understand why no one is). I am going to go back and read through all the posts to try and make sure the decision I make is based on the best possible information, but right now my vote stands. Maybe examination of the whole sequence of dream posts will bring something to light. Not knowing all the possible roles in the game makes it very difficult to attach people to anything specific.

As I said.. it's a pure suicide play. Either we win on the spot.. the wolf gets me (unless he wants the remaining players to do it), or I likely get lynched.

My goal is to win. I win by surviving, which is important, but I also win by removing threats to my village. BrianD, by claiming my role, has shown himself a threat to my village.

[Fouts]

I think the villagers win once Brian is lynched. I still see no reason why SirFozzie should be suspected, maybe Tiger is overthinking things.

I'm not sure Airhog voting for Brian and not Desnudo/Swaggs means they are knights. Airhog was doing some crazy voting after he died. If he was controlled by the ghostmaster, why can he vote for whomever right now? Does the ghostmaster want Desnudo/Swaggs cleared?

Brian is definitely not a villager, he would have received the same dreams. So if he isn't a villager, and not a knight, he must be lynched.

[Tigercat]

In order to make my vote count in case a ghostmaster is out there and has the ghosts vote ridiculously for a villager or knight, I unvote Sirfozzie and I vote for BrianD. First, I want to side on the side of caution with these ghosts, on one hand I believe many of the ghosts have seemed to vote independently enough, but on the other hand with numbers thinning we can't trust who has what role with the ghosts. Secondly, after looking at the timing of Sirfozzie's posts with BrianD's, Sirfozzie was either telling the truth or calculating. If he was that lieing and calculating, I think he would have gotten the parameters of the role description from Werewolf 2 correct. So after thinking it through, it does seem possible that the role simply changed some. So just call me a chaotic villager, but after looking at the timing and further thought, I will go out on a limb against BrianD now. I hope we get the right guy.....

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Fouts

I think the villagers win once Brian is lynched. I still see no reason why SirFozzie should be suspected, maybe Tiger is overthinking things.

I have been known to do that from time to time. Still, if there is only one baddie left, whoever said this game was a mindfuck was right. That would mean there was only 5-6 badguys in all likelyhood. Crazy when those badguys were likely against each other and against the good guys at the same time!!

[jeff061]

If there is only one left either Lathum has a way overpowered role or he was just lucky. Knowing the identity of three bad guys in the first three rounds?

[Tigercat]

Maybe one of the baddies had a super powerful role but misused it?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I have been known to do that from time to time. Still, if there is only one baddie left, whoever said this game was a mindfuck was right. That would mean there was only 5-6 badguys in all likelyhood. Crazy when those badguys were likely against each other and against the good guys at the same time!!

In the last game, in which the werewolves won, it started out with 3 werewolves versus 16 villagers (two of whom were evil). So, it isn't out of the realm of possibilities for there to be 5-6 in this one.

That said, I still feel like there are two left.

[Swaggs]

Lathum's death is still one of the biggest mysteries to me.

[jeff061]

I just don't see how two could be left. 1 or 3.

[Swaggs]

At least, two.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

And if they are knights, and BrianD has the balls to say he didn't see us in the dream but rather he got a vague dream like the knights, I think we need to SERIOUSLY consider Sirfonzzie and Kwitt. What do you think villagers and possible knights?

Am I the only one suspicious of SirFonzzie? (besides BrianD)

Re-reading the posts, I find most of the stuff up until the dream posts of little help. Without knowing roles, things are too open to speculation and interpretation.

I do notice a possible SirFozzie-KWhit connection, but I keep wondering about the slam-dunking of BrianD. Does it really make sense for he/them to pull that off, knowing that it will be suspicious should the game not end?

If a werewolf(s), SirFozzie(KWhit) could easily have kept quiet about dreams and continued to eat villagers while everyone tried to figure out what was going on.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Lathum's death is still one of the biggest mysteries to me.

After reading through all the earlier posts, I think that Lathum may have been a wolf seer/visionary. Who knows exactly how it might have worked. That is, if the magicians and wolves are fighting. It would explain why he got blasted and why two dark cultists were eaten. I find it hard to explain deacon and king being eaten so quickly any other way. Except blind luck of course, which did happen in the last game with the cursed.

Not really relevant to anything going on now, but it could help account for some numbers. I think six pure evil attack roles sounds about right. We haven't really discussed the possibility that a remaining villager or two might be a sorcerer or a cultist, which would also balance the ratio.

[Tigercat]

That post was several pages back I do not hold myself responsible for any theories placed in it!

But 99% of my theories on worrying about Sirfozzie were based on
1) feeling that there must be more than one baddie left(which I am not/was not alone in thinking) and therefore
2) someone with the dream must be bad

And I therefore did not find the dream defended Sirfozzie in the Sirfozzie vs BrianD debate enough by itself. I wasn't so much looking to go after Sirfozzie as I wanted to hear arguements which may sway me or not sway me. But in the end I did find enough to go with Sirfozzie that I didn't have to worry about the dreams either way, which was the place I was trying to get at.

[Desnudo]

Well consider the possibility of a villager being a sorcerer or cultist if you really want to bend your mind. We didn't really discuss it, but I'll throw it out there. Not much to go on about that at this point though.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Well consider the possibility of a villager being a sorcerer or cultist if you really want to bend your mind. We didn't really discuss it, but I'll throw it out there. Not much to go on about that at this point though.

It is a mind bender.

The questions are: Do Tigercat, jeff and KWhit have roles, and if so.. what are they?

We KNOW there's a ghostmaster out there. Is there a Dark Seer? Another Wolf? Dark Magician? (if he's played on to the board in attack mode, we're in deep trouble.. (ok HORRIBLE joke)). Jeff said he had a "minor role". Can't figure out what that could be.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

It is a mind bender.

The questions are: Do Tigercat, jeff and KWhit have roles, and if so.. what are they?

We KNOW there's a ghostmaster out there. Is there a Dark Seer? Another Wolf? Dark Magician? (if he's played on to the board in attack mode, we're in deep trouble.. (ok HORRIBLE joke)). Jeff said he had a "minor role". Can't figure out what that could be.

Ok, maybe we all had some sort of role. Fonzie and I are brothers. You are the doctor. Desnudo/Swaggs are Knights. Jeff the ghostmaster, what does that make KWhit?

[Tigercat]

I am just an ordinary villager(perhaps the only one, perhaps Eaglesfan was the other), not that it matters too much at this point cause everyone knows I am a villager, and nothing i could be could be anymore or anyless threatening than that. Besides, if I was a seer I've been a damn poor one methinks. But yea, it kinda sucked for a while cause I figured just being plain in a game with so many factions would get me no defense and I would be killed fairly quickly. Turns out that dream stuff saved my ass earlier, cause a villager isn't much of a good target in a game with multiple factions.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Well consider the possibility of a villager being a sorcerer or cultist if you really want to bend your mind. We didn't really discuss it, but I'll throw it out there. Not much to go on about that at this point though.

I thought of that, but no one is really going against the grain. If the game isn't over after this coming game night that is something we'll have to look at.

[jeff061]

I never said I was the Ghost Master.

I don't plan on revealing my role, keeping it quiet until the right time is more beneficial for the good guys than letting it out in the open.

Though it may be to late in the game to use it in the way I had planned to. It is really nothing special or worth thinking about.

[Lathum]

I Vote SirFozzie

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I Vote SirFozzie

Interesting.

[SirFozzie]

you said it yourself. The ghosts are voting randomly, or the way their puppetmaster tells them to.

Definitely makes me believe Ghostmaster isn;t a friendly role.. either that, or they are doing their best to see their side wins from beyond the grave (wasn't there a thought that Lathum could have been a wolf seer type?

[weinstein7]

Ugh. I just read through the Werewolf V thread, and now I'm all confused.

I will say that this game is much more intriguing, although I'm not sure if it's because of the more veteran players or because of the setup.

I have my own theories on who you guys should lynch, but I'll keep quiet. Probably wrong anyway. Pretty sure if I were playing I'd resemble Airhog from Werewolf II.

[Barkeep49]

unvote Desnudo
Vote SirFozzie

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh

[SirFozzie]

Where's my pac man suit?

[Eaglesfan27]

I vote SirFozzie.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

you said it yourself. The ghosts are voting randomly, or the way their puppetmaster tells them to.

Definitely makes me believe Ghostmaster isn;t a friendly role.. either that, or they are doing their best to see their side wins from beyond the grave (wasn't there a thought that Lathum could have been a wolf seer type?

Maybe he can only control certain ghosts? And who knows which that is. I find it odd that I was the last one convinced to vote for BrianD, but I was quite the exception, but these ghosts are finding it so easy to vote for you. It will be curious if the majority of them vote for one person and its not BrianD. Perhaps we will get an idea who's controlling them very soon. Anyone noticing if ghosts are posting right away or if they are reading the thread first?

[Lathum]

boo

[kingfc22]

booo

[Desnudo]

Boo yourself.

Trying to figure out what the ghosts are up to and the reasoning behind it is something I think we're going to understand only in hindsight. If it is like Peregrine said, then some ghosts are out for revenge, some want justice, some are just random.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Lathum

boo

If you are gonna do a classic, you could at least do the childs voice through the television or give us a vision of christmas future at the river of darkness.

[kingfc22]

wow, that is scary

[Swaggs]

Foz, who, that is still living, do you feel you have pissed off the most today?

That might give us the ghostmaster.

[SirFozzie]

Two people.

Jeff061: I've asked him several times to elaborate on his "minor role", and he's demurred each time.

BrianD: Well, obviously, duh..

[Lathum]

bettlejuice

bettlejuice

bettlejuice

[weinstein7]

Originally Posted by Lathum

bettlejuice

bettlejuice

bettlejuice

And who was it that said Tim Burton had never done anything for them.

For shame.

FOR SHAME!

[TazFTW]

Ghostly Vote count (from what I can tell)

BrianD - 8 (SirFozzie, jeff061, TazFTW, Desnudo, KWhit, Fouts, Airhog, Tigercat)
SirFozzie - 3 (kingfc22, Lathum, Eaglesfan27)
KWhit - 1 (BrianD)
Swaggs - 1 (Barkeep49)

[Barkeep49]

unvote Fozzie
Vote Swaggs

[Lathum]

Unvote Fozie
Vote Swaggs

[Eaglesfan27]

Unvote SirFozzie

Vote Swaggs.

[Desnudo]

Well I think it's pretty obvious who doesn't have control.

[Tigercat]

I think the ghosts are on crack.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Well I think it's pretty obvious who doesn't have control.

Does crack work on ghosts too?

[Lathum]

hey barkeep. pass the pipe

[Barkeep49]

Hey man YOU had it last? What did you do with it?