WW Dukes Versus Hunters (GAME OVER!!--See Post #1387)

[Autumn]

Phew, gotta go do yard work, will check on the result in a few.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Definitely Martin. If he dukes to Vaimes thats pretty damned shady in my opinion.

Unless Vaimes is a baddy.

[Chief Rum]

Final tally going.

Lots of stuff going on here, so give me a sec.

[Vaimes]

I'm not a baddy. Just an irresponsible towny. ,_,

[Chief Rum]

FINAL Day Two Vote Tally

MartinD (8)-- timmae (495), EagleFan (500), Raven (595), britrock88 (608), cheekimonk (611), Autumn (621), Narcizo (637), Shoveler (644)
Autumn (3)-- Grover (598), MrBug708 (629), MartinD (632)

Yet to Vote: The Jackal, Vaimes

Unable to Vote: fontisian

[Chief Rum]

Mass confusion reigns in the village in the aftermath of Vaimes shooting fontisian.

In normal society, the cops would be called and Vaimes would go to prison. MartinD, the courageous medic who saved fontisian's life, would be lauded.

But things are different deep in the Bayou.

Here, Vaimes isn't targeted at all. He is quiet and doesn't participate much. No one goes over to him. The Hunters seem to feel it will work itself out. The Dukes are maybe too afraid of a guy willing to shoot his gun.

And who draws suspicion? MartinD, the medic. He stands flabbergasted at the reactions of the village, watching as it appears he will be punished for saving a life. There is some discussion on cheekimonk, and then on Autumn.

But in the end, it all comes back to MartinD.

"We can't trust you!" the village cries at MartinD, and they make to grab him.

"But wait!" he cries. "You can trust me! Think what I have done! I was in the Army. I served in Desert Storm. I could never take another's life. I was a medic. I am sworn to heal, even now, long after my service has ended!"

"You all know who you need to go after--the man with the gun. Vaimes! Vaimes is the one who shot at fontisian. He shot to kill. He has given little reason for this. He could shoot any of you at any point! Think about what you all are doing!!"

MartinD's impassioned pleas immediately appeal to the Dukes, and softens the hardened hearts of the Hunters.

He is right... they think. Vaimes is the one who shot fontisian. And, here, we believe in good ole Southern justice.

With a sudden swell of mob mentality, the village falls upon Vaimes. He is helpless, rooted to the spot. The crowd gathers around him and machetes start to fly. His screams are mercifully short.

MARTIND saved himself by Duking to VAIMES!!

VAIMES was a Hunter and a regular Villager with no roles.

[Chief Rum]

Processing night results

[Raven]

So a Hunter should shoot MartinD ASAP?

[Chief Rum]

The sun rises on the tense village of Rollette, where few of the residents or visitors slept soundly that night.

You all awake with fear in your hearts. What will you find when you walk out into the open today? Who died last night.

You all wander out, and look at each other suspiciously. You start to note who is there, silently counting who all is left.

Suddenly, a door to a shack crashes open! You all whirl to the noise, expecting the worst. Two Dukes faint in surprise. The Hunters all raise their guns.

"Jeez!" the figure at the door exclaims. "Put yer guns down! It's just me!"

Fontisian, bedraggled and weary, but apparently well on the health, is back on her feet.

With a sudden realization, you all see that no one died last night at all.

Could it be over?

NIGHT TWO has ended, and DAY THREE has begun. Hunters may commence firing.

Fontisian is healthy again and is able to post in the thread and take any normal actions available to her.

DEADLINE FOR DAY THREE IS 4 P.M EST/1 P.M. PDT THURSDAY.

[fontisian]

I am going to have words with Vaimes after this game about general idiocy, shooting someone without warning or a case, and ignoring blatant hunter claims.

You all are the bigger problem here. There is no way in hell Martin D is scum if I am town, and there was also almost no way Vaimes was scum. Every single person who tried to get them lynched while I couldn’t speak up to defend them instead of waiting a single Day to attack me is on my shooting list.

I am now going to try to confirm myself as town by shooting either scum or a hunter. Once that is determined, you people will never, ever lynch MartinD and will treat him as confirmed town.

Since there was no kill, we can assume that the bodyguard either got a protect in or the cultist was recruited. Since the bodyguard can protect themselves, I wouldn't mind seeing them claim and possible clear their target. I would, however, highly suggest waiting on claiming in case the seer has a guilty or several innocent checks and decides to claim toDay.

[EagleFan]

The question now is, was there a block or a conversion?

[fontisian]

I'm actually betting block is more likely, as the cultist wants to be lynched or shot over the rest of the scumteam.

[fontisian]

Right. I'm looking to shoot in this list toDay:
EagleFan
Autumn
Timmae
Shoveler
Grover

Any comments, suggestions or analysis on those people would be appreciated.

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

The question now is, was there a block or a conversion?

There was a block, as I was the intended target of the night kill.

[fontisian]

You're informed of that?

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by fontisian

You're informed of that?

Yes.

[EagleFan]

What we know:

Vaimes was good. Suspected with most of the possible scenarios ending up that way.

MartinD and font, both unknown still.

No kill last night, block or conversion. If the BG is told that a block was successful that would be good information to have so we can start a trusted list (though it wouldn't rule out cultist if the answer to the below question is yes, just that the person wasn't at least a member of the original wolves).

If conversion, we really have no idea (does a BG block also block a conversion?).


Why is Autumn high on font's list? She says to go after people looking to lynch Martin. She is speaking out of both sides of her mouth with this one.

[fontisian]

I suspect Autumn's the one scum that decided to stay off the lynch.

Your reasons are bull and ultimately irrelevant. I am going to confirm myself or kill myself by shooting toDay. You want scum? Look elsewhere.

[EagleFan]

Barring counter reveals that would make MartinD good and with no knowledge of font's alignment. font is still an unknown.

With that said I think we have more information to use for the day one voting now.

[fontisian]

Chief: Are people informed when they are shot and survive?

EF: If your goal is to convince me not to shoot you, you're doing a poor job of it.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by fontisian

I suspect Autumn's the one scum that decided to stay off the lynch.

Your reasons are bull and ultimately irrelevant. I am going to confirm myself or kill myself by shooting toDay. You want scum? Look elsewhere.

You are a pieve of work, that is for sure.

Civility... look it up.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by fontisian

Chief: Are people informed when they are shot and survive?

EF: If your goal is to convince me not to shoot you, you're doing a poor job of it.

My goal may be to never play in a game that you are in again. Every game you have an attitude with people just because they dare to have a different opinion that you. It is getting old.

[fontisian]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

You are a pieve of work, that is for sure.

Civility... look it up.

I got shot at, silenced, and then had to watch scum lead a lynch on confirmed town, who then duked it to my other confirmed town. Why would I possibly be irritated?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by fontisian

Chief: Are people informed when they are shot and survive?

EF: If your goal is to convince me not to shoot you, you're doing a poor job of it.

No one will get shot and not know it.

[EagleFan]

I don't try to make time for the game just to deal with that. If I want arrogant attitudes I will schedule more meetings at work...

[Chief Rum]

Guys, calm down.

WW can be a very personal game. Just remember we're here to enjoy ourselves.

Not taking sides, just saying let's not have this devolve into an argument about something other than the game itself (arguing in-game stuff is of course perfectly acceptable).

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No one will get shot and not know it.

Even if it is a quiet bullet?

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

FINAL Day Two Vote Tally

MartinD (8)-- timmae (495), EagleFan (500), Raven (595), britrock88 (608), cheekimonk (611), Autumn (621), Narcizo (637), Shoveler (644)
Autumn (3)-- Grover (598), MrBug708 (629), MartinD (632)

Yet to Vote: The Jackal, Vaimes

Unable to Vote: fontisian

Font, I agree that you'll find some scum among the Martin voters, but that's 8 of the 14 of us. The odds are incredibly low that there wouldn't be scum there!

Your list, meanwhile, mentions some of the 8 specifically. Have you explained your suspicions of them previously? If not, could you do that now?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Even if it is a quiet bullet?

Maybe I'll add one in for the next time, but this game here has no quiet bullets.

[Chief Rum]

I suspect my boss would like me to do some work, so I am stepping out for a bit.

I'll check in occasionally to see if any of you hotheads decide to take potshots at each other.

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by fontisian

I got shot at, silenced, and then had to watch scum lead a lynch on confirmed town, who then duked it to my other confirmed town. Why would I possibly be irritated?

At what point were Vaimes and I confirmed as town/village? (That is, before the Day 2 lynch.) There may be evidence pointing one way or the other, but nothing that I can see that would provide certainty.

I know what side I am on, and my posts/actions so far may give an indication to the other players, but there's nothing out there in the thread so far that definitively states that I'm on a particular side.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by MartinD

There was a block, as I was the intended target of the night kill.

That is very surprising to me, that you would be informed of that. It's even unusual for the bodyguard to be informed, I don't know that I've ever heard of the victim being informed. I'm also not sure why the wolves would target you, or why the bodyguard would protect you. You were the lead vote getter and very well could have been dead by night fall.

[fontisian]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No one will get shot and not know it.

Thank you.

I would highly recommend the bodyguard not claim in that case, unless they are under lynch pressure or Martin is lying.

Martin: Can you clarify that you were not protected by an item?

MartinD was probably shot for one of two reasons:
1. Scum thought he was some sort of power role. This could have come from confusion about his Medic claim.
2. Scum thought he would become confirmed town. This points to Autumn as potential scum.

EF: You are more than smart enough to realize that Martin D becomes confirmed town once I flip town. Why, then, did you contribute to a lynch on MartinD when you could have waited one Day and lynched me?

The conclusion I'm coming to is that scum wanted to lynch Martin, then me, then Vaimes, or Martin, then Vaimes, then me. The fact that only Autumn and Narc pointed this out is insane.

[timmae]

Piecing this all together in my mind yet... If font, vaimes and martin are all good that was one messed up play by vaimes that basically cost us a day.

[fontisian]

Originally Posted by MartinD

At what point were Vaimes and I confirmed as town/village? (That is, before the Day 2 lynch.) There may be evidence pointing one way or the other, but nothing that I can see that would provide certainty.

I know what side I am on, and my posts/actions so far may give an indication to the other players, but there's nothing out there in the thread so far that definitively states that I'm on a particular side.

Both of you are confirmed town with the knowledge that I am town.

There is no way Vaimes takes a shot as scum when I am blatantly hinting hunter, especially when he has a full scumteam to pick up on those hints and warn him against it. In addition, he was behaviorally town.

You, as scum, have no reason to have a medic save on me over one of your scummates, and are therefore town.

[fontisian]

Originally Posted by timmae

Piecing this all together in my mind yet... If font, vaimes and martin are all good that was one messed up play by vaimes that basically cost us a day.

It could have been a decent thing, giving us two confirmed town, if anyone bothered to think it through and vote elsewhere.

[Autumn]

No way the bodyguard should claim, whether they got a block or not. They can let us know later, it's too early in the game for that.

It's of course very possible that the cultist got hit, probably more likely than the bg picking the right target. But if the hit wasn't really on Martin I can't imagine why he would pretend it was, that would give us a confirmed wolf if he was lying. However, I also find it hard to believe the wolves put in a kill on the lead vote getter. I suppose it might have been a conditional, but what would they have to gain from flipping Martin villager?

[The Jackal]

Very sorry guys, got super busy at work and it was completely unexpected. It looks like I'm still alive so I'll catch up as soon as I can

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by fontisian

It could have been a decent thing, giving us two confirmed town, if anyone bothered to think it through and vote elsewhere.

I understand your frustration Font, but you're coming across as very disparaging of basically everybody else playing this game.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by fontisian

It could have been a decent thing, giving us two confirmed town, if anyone bothered to think it through and vote elsewhere.

I get what you are saying now.. pieced together with his martyr claim last game it is 2 crazy ass plays but they both make sense in that light.

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by fontisian

Martin: Can you clarify that you were not protected by an item?

The message that I received strongly implied that it was a bodyguard block, not item-based protection. I do not hold any items.

MartinD was probably shot for one of two reasons:
1. Scum thought he was some sort of power role. This could have come from confusion about his Medic claim.
2. Scum thought he would become confirmed town. This points to Autumn as potential scum.

The most obvious reason for me being targeted (in my mind) is that the wolves thought that I was the cultist, and wanted to convert me. (If that was the thinking, they were wrong - I'm now a basic vanilla villager, having used my Medic and Duke one-off powers.)

[Shoveler]

Originally Posted by fontisian

Chief: Are people informed when they are shot and survive?

EF: If your goal is to convince me not to shoot you, you're doing a poor job of it.

Ok I hate to point this out the obvious, but font asked chief about being shot, which to me implies when a hunter shoots them. She did not ask about whether they are informed of a night kill attempt.

Maybe they are one in the same, but I'm concerned that they are not.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Autumn

That is very surprising to me, that you would be informed of that. It's even unusual for the bodyguard to be informed, I don't know that I've ever heard of the victim being informed. I'm also not sure why the wolves would target you, or why the bodyguard would protect you. You were the lead vote getter and very well could have been dead by night fall.

Agreed, on all counts.

[fontisian]

Originally Posted by MartinD

The message that I received strongly implied that it was a bodyguard block, not item-based protection. I do not hold any items.



The most obvious reason for me being targeted (in my mind) is that the wolves thought that I was the cultist, and wanted to convert me. (If that was the thinking, they were wrong - I'm now a basic vanilla villager, having used my Medic and Duke one-off powers.)

I can't imagine that any wolves actually thought you were the cultist when you had a medic save on a villager instead of them.

Ok, the Bodyguard should counterclaim if they did not protect Martin last Night. Otherwise, we can assume he was the shot and is doubly confirmed.

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by MartinD

The most obvious reason for me being targeted (in my mind) is that the wolves thought that I was the cultist, and wanted to convert me. (If that was the thinking, they were wrong - I'm now a basic vanilla villager, having used my Medic and Duke one-off powers.)

Checking back on the ruleset - there's no way that I can be the cultist, as I have used the Duke power. From Post 3:

CULTIST-- You are a villager but you are a wannabe wolf. You win with the wolves, but count towards the village for win conditions. You know the wolves' identities and their Hunter/Duke allegiances. You cannot PM a player like the others, but you can receive PMs. You do not have a natural Hunter or Duke ability, although you will be a member of one of those teams. You have the ability to act as a member of one of those teams as if you were The Blank (Hunter team) or Stuttering Sam (Duke team). If you are attacked by the wolves, you will join them.

(my emphasis)

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by fontisian

Thank you.

I would highly recommend the bodyguard not claim in that case, unless they are under lynch pressure or Martin is lying.

Martin: Can you clarify that you were not protected by an item?

MartinD was probably shot for one of two reasons:
1. Scum thought he was some sort of power role. This could have come from confusion about his Medic claim.
2. Scum thought he would become confirmed town. This points to Autumn as potential scum.

EF: You are more than smart enough to realize that Martin D becomes confirmed town once I flip town. Why, then, did you contribute to a lynch on MartinD when you could have waited one Day and lynched me?

The conclusion I'm coming to is that scum wanted to lynch Martin, then me, then Vaimes, or Martin, then Vaimes, then me. The fact that only Autumn and Narc pointed this out is insane.

If you read you will see that I wanted to try to get a vote that meant something. I certainly didn't want an all Martin vote. Information is what I wanted. If you and Martin are wolves and we looked elsewhere it means we are now two days worth of potential bad lynches and night kills behind and would still be in the same position as before today's lynch. Having 3 completely unknowns.

If I am a wolf, Martin is definitely not the target. Keep the confusion between the two of you still out there.


We have the following possibilities:

1) MartinD is not the bodyguard and was targeted and protected and told that he was.
2) MartinD is the bodyguard and was targeted and protected and told that he blocked the attack.
3) MartinD is a wolf and is trying to out the real bodyguard (maybe because they were blocked last night).


Of the three of you, finding out either MartinD or you were the best options (as Vaimes comes up good in more of the scenarios that I looked through that made sense).

If MartinD is a wolf, we can be near certain that you are. If MartinD is the cultist, we can be near certain that you are. If MartinD is a villager, we are still unknown about you.

If we wait and find out your alliance:
If you are a wolf, we are unknown about MartinD, could be a bad luck village play.
If you are a villager, we know that MartinD is a villager (or close to certain).
If you are a cultist, we are unknown about MartinD.


So: 2 of the 3 MartinD results give us a certain outcome. Only 1 of the 3 results for you give us a certain outcome.

[EagleFan]

Okay, I have to get back to work. Will check back in later.

[MartinD]

Originally Posted by fontisian

Both of you are confirmed town with the knowledge that I am town.

There is no way Vaimes takes a shot as scum when I am blatantly hinting hunter, especially when he has a full scumteam to pick up on those hints and warn him against it. In addition, he was behaviorally town.

You, as scum, have no reason to have a medic save on me over one of your scummates, and are therefore town.

That reasoning, of course, relies on a fact that only you know (if you're town/village or scum/wolf). Take that away, and there are another couple of potential scenarios - either we're both wolves (so I have an obvious incentive to target you for potential Medic attention), or I (as a villager) have managed to pick a wolf at random when deciding where to Medic-target.

TL;DR version - no matter how definite you sound about being a villager, I think that it's possible that you could be a wolf.

[Autumn]

Maybe later, after I eat, I'll have the blood sugar to figure this out, but right now I am completely baffled as to why the wolves would target Martin. As pointed out, once he duked he couldn't possibly be the Cultist. The only scenario that makes any sense there is if they also had a duke order in, so that if he wasn't a real duke, they would have saved him, then converted him. All of that only makes sense if Font was a wolf.

So if they didn't think he was Cultist, why would they kill him? They figured he would Duke, or survive in some other way. Did they think his duke would somehow clear him? If so, why not wait and see and then kill him later? It doesn't make sense, unless they thought he was a special, but I'm not sure what would make them think that.

So far I think the best option offered is that they misunderstood the Medic role, thinking it was basically a bodyguard.

[fontisian]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

If you read you will see that I wanted to try to get a vote that meant something. I certainly didn't want an all Martin vote. Information is what I wanted. If you and Martin are wolves and we looked elsewhere it means we are now two days worth of potential bad lynches and night kills behind and would still be in the same position as before today's lynch. Having 3 completely unknowns.

If I am a wolf, Martin is definitely not the target. Keep the confusion between the two of you still out there.


We have the following possibilities:

1) MartinD is not the bodyguard and was targeted and protected and told that he was.
2) MartinD is the bodyguard and was targeted and protected and told that he blocked the attack.
3) MartinD is a wolf and is trying to out the real bodyguard (maybe because they were blocked last night).


Of the three of you, finding out either MartinD or you were the best options (as Vaimes comes up good in more of the scenarios that I looked through that made sense).

If MartinD is a wolf, we can be near certain that you are. If MartinD is the cultist, we can be near certain that you are. If MartinD is a villager, we are still unknown about you.

If we wait and find out your alliance:
If you are a wolf, we are unknown about MartinD, could be a bad luck village play.
If you are a villager, we know that MartinD is a villager (or close to certain).
If you are a cultist, we are unknown about MartinD.


So: 2 of the 3 MartinD results give us a certain outcome. Only 1 of the 3 results for you give us a certain outcome.

For one, if I'm a cultist, you know MartinD is town, as he would probably think I'm a villager.

Your strategy is to lynch Martin, have him flip town and learn nothing, then lynch me, and have me flip town and learn nothing.

The smart strategy is to find out that I am town (whether through a lynch, a check, or my own actions), and then use that to clear Vaimes and Martin, giving us a solid, non-pr townblock.