The Trump Presidency – 2016

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Huh? This would be treated like it was a huge scandal, not like an honest politician trying to stay above the fray. It would've decimated her in the polls and the entire debate would've been about that. The e-mails still would've had relevance. It would be all about what did Hillary know and when.

I strongly disagree with this. One side would have tried to make it a major scandal. People who HATED Hillary due to her constant issue with the truth? I think a lot of them move to her check box. See, she's then the politician that isn't going to play the stupid games or tolerate the cheating. She's the one who will deal with it.

As far as what she knew and when did she know it, that part would have been addressed by her: Not going into the debate with inside information, announcing it before the debate along with the firings.

The other option is to do what Hillary did. Take the question and prepare for it because she was going to win this thing at all cost. No action against any individual who got the question (accept maybe a promotion to head of the DNC) Then act shocked and stunned when the email gets released and scream "RUSSIA, it's the fault of the RUSSIANS!!!, LOOK AWAY FROM MY DISHONEST CAMPAIGN"

That was really effective.

Again, I'll repeat, run a clean campaign and there isn't a damned thing Russia or anyone else can do. Don't and bad crap comes out.

I can't imagine the vitrol that would have come from the left if Fox News had leaked Trump questions before debates twice and the person who leaked them found their way into the upper reaches of the RNC. MSNBC would be having nightly specials on this. And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have given a damn how the emails were found to show it.

Trump is a disaster for the country and I hate it. . . but I'm not going to blame Russia for it. I'm not blaming "idiots, racists, or rednecks either" It's a lot more complicated than all of that and if we don't figure it out, there will be more Trumps.

[JPhillips]

Uh, according to Megan Kelly Trump did get debate questions from a Fox host.

I think Bernie, or more likely his wife, did have something to hide. They were far from transparent about their finances.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im sure that we have had an impact on a few major world powers elections as well.
I think this was just a lot more public than usual.

HRC must have gotten kicked around by Putin and he didnt respect her. Probably why Russia threw their weight behind Trump.
More bad diplomacy by HRC. She should have taken a tip from Claire Underwood.

Republicans have gone from Reagan standing against the Soviets and Communists to now being OK with being a puppet of Russia.

Do you guys root for Drago in Rocky 4 now?

[JPhillips]

Looks like we're getting a Sec/State that literally got a friendship medal from Putin.

Sure didn't see them coming back and winning the Cold War in overtime.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Looks like we're getting a Sec/State that literally got a friendship medal from Putin.

Sure didn't see them coming back and winning the Cold War in overtime.

Nothing to see here. Let's re-focus on emails folks.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Uh, according to Megan Kelly Trump did get debate questions from a Fox host.

I think Bernie, or more likely his wife, did have something to hide. They were far from transparent about their finances.

It's word of mouth. Not an email in large letters stating it. If the press had obvious proof, they would have went nuts with it.

Maybe Bernie did have something to hide. I was just guessing. As long as they all have something major to hide and the parties themselves have things to hide. . . we will be at the mercy of anyone who can hack into their emails and systems.

That's not being in support of republicans or democrats, it's simple reality.

[ISiddiqui]

You'd have to be quite silly to not realize that we ALL have things to hide. Hell, this forum is public, but there are at least a few posts that would disqualify any one here from any public office. Most politicians and party workers tend to keep their regular thoughts private, but likely have let a bit loose in email (up until recently).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Looks like we're getting a Sec/State that literally got a friendship medal from Putin.

Sure didn't see them coming back and winning the Cold War in overtime.

The Exxon CEO. Don't worry, after this one he'll start draining that swamp.

[digamma]

The debate question seems like a weird thing to draw a line in the sand over with HRC.

[cartman]

Trumps' philosophy on intelligence briefings:

“I don’t have to be told ― you know, I’m, like, a smart person. I don’t have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day,” Trump said in an interview airing on “Fox News Sunday.” “I don’t need to be told ... the same thing every day, every morning ― same words. ‘Sir, nothing has changed. Let’s go over it again.’ I don’t need that.”

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You'd have to be quite silly to not realize that we ALL have things to hide. Hell, this forum is public, but there are at least a few posts that would disqualify any one here from any public office. Most politicians and party workers tend to keep their regular thoughts private, but likely have let a bit loose in email (up until recently).

I'm not talking about opinions here. I'm talking about wildly unethical behavior. If it's silly and naive for me to think that our politicians shouldn't engage in that, then you can paint me with that brush.

I'm also not talking about personal things. I don't care if Hillary looks at pornography three hours a day. I don't care if she is an atheist (I know she isn't) I don't even care if she has a different opinion on a few major issues. I do care about a lot of the things that came out in those emails. They showed an incredibly unethical person surrounded by unethical people.

And before anyone starts: I didn't vote for Trump. I do not condone any of the things he said. I know the guy is dirty as hell. I know his associates are too. That's the point. Both sides are horrible and because of that it allows other countries to pull this crap.

I can only think of 3 or 4 people on this board that would have "lost" my vote before the election begins. (and no, I'm not naming them, but I will say they are on the opposite sides of the political spectrum)

[Atocep]

Some on reddit broke down the time line of events with citations.

jacquedsouza comments on CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump win White House

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by cartman

Trumps' philosophy on intelligence briefings:

So Trump is Fredo... It all makes sense now.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Some on reddit broke down the time line of events with citations.

jacquedsouza comments on CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump win White House

That reddit thread devolves into a "Clinton had the person responsible for the leaks murdered" thread within 10 posts.

Seriously.

[kingfc22]

$4 billion market cap hit this morning for Lockheed Martin thanks to sticky fingers and his Twitter account.

Apparently the only businesses allowed to thrive are ones he his okay with thriving. That is a pretty scary reality.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

$4 billion market cap hit this morning for Lockheed Martin thanks to sticky fingers and his Twitter account.

Apparently the only businesses allowed to thrive are ones he his okay with thriving. That is a pretty scary reality.

I'm not a fan of Trump at all but maybe the new reality is also that the US defense industries have spent decades getting rich with our bloated defense budget and the gravy train had to end at some point? I hate the he is doing it with individual companies but the same old same old way of pushing the budget problems down the road to the future politicians had to stop at some point.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Butter

That reddit thread devolves into a "Clinton had the person responsible for the leaks murdered" thread within 10 posts.

Seriously.

Yeah I didn't go below the highlighted post because I fully expected something of that nature.

[kingfc22]

100% agreed Panerd on the gravy train for defense manufacturers; however, his method of attack is a very slippery slope which concerns me a lot more.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

100% agreed Panerd on the gravy train for defense manufacturers; however, his method of attack is a very slippery slope which concerns me a lot more.

Yeah you would think he would understand how Obama making a tweet about Trump industries would effect stock prices and honestly I'm pretty sure he does. I just hate the black/white that the news outlets and a lot of people (not you obviously) seem to have on Trump. I agree with the content of the tweet but not the delivery. When will this spending madness stop?

[JPhillips]

Isn't his plan to increase defense spending? I understand that cutting waste doesn't mean we have to spend less, but this isn't a road to less spending.

[bhlloy]

I know I shouldn't be surprised at anything, but I think the biggest story is a president elect publicly trashing his own intelligence community. Whatever your political affiliation that's not a good thing, right?

[JPhillips]

I'd worry more if Trump weren't smart.

[Butter]

Trump would trash national heroes if it made him look better.

No, wait he's already done that. Multiple times.

[Ben E Lou]

So Chinese state media has said DJT is as ignorant as a child. Twitter war with China before he's even in office?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Isn't his plan to increase defense spending? I understand that cutting waste doesn't mean we have to spend less, but this isn't a road to less spending.

He says he wants to dramatically increase military spending.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

So Chinese state media has said DJT is as ignorant as a child. Twitter war with China before he's even in office?

what better

twitter war or real war?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

So Chinese state media has said DJT is as ignorant as a child. Twitter war with China before he's even in office?

Of all the idiotic things he's done/will do, this is the one I have the least amount problems with. China has been hacking/blackmailing/stealing US industry trade secrets for years. They have used those secrets to hurt a ridiculous amount of American companies and all of our politicians (those with an R and those with a D next to their names) have allowed it to go on without any response.

China needs the US as much as we need them. It's time to change the dynamics of the relationship. The reason they are going on state media with things like that is they are worried and uncomfortable. That's a good thing from where I'm sitting.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by panerd

I'm not a fan of Trump at all but maybe the new reality is also that the US defense industries have spent decades getting rich with our bloated defense budget and the gravy train had to end at some point? I hate the he is doing it with individual companies but the same old same old way of pushing the budget problems down the road to the future politicians had to stop at some point.

Agreed. I'm fine with him blasting some of these companies. They're getting called to task publicly and it's really hard to disagree with his point, even if the knife did enter their back.

Same with China. There's plenty of skeletons in their closet if they really want to go into a war of words.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I think the biggest story is a president elect publicly trashing his own intelligence community. Whatever your political affiliation that's not a good thing, right?

Depends upon what aspect(s) are being criticized.

[JPhillips]

There's no way Trump actually picks Fiorina for DNI, right? This has to be another ritual humiliation ala Mitt, Christie and Rudy.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

twitter war or real war?

What will DJT's response be if China does retaliate by invading Taiwan after he has forced them to acknowledge their continued existence?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

What will DJT's response be if China does retaliate by invading Taiwan after he has forced them to acknowledge their continued existence?

Unfortunately that is a distinct possibility. China even alluded to it.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

What will DJT's response be if China does retaliate by invading Taiwan after he has forced them to acknowledge their continued existence?

I would hope sticking a warship in Taipei Harbor if the invasion hasn't happened yet and a complete embargo combined with a suspension of any debt repayments to them if it has. But if China invades Taiwan it's not going to be because Donald Trump accepted a phone call from the Taiwanese leader or said something mean on Twitter. Though I'm sure the usual suspects will blame him for China's childish escalation and egregiously aggressive actions even in that hypothetical.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I would hope sticking a warship in Taipei Harbor if the invasion hasn't happened yet and a complete embargo combined with a suspension of any debt repayments to them if it has. But if China invades Taiwan it's not going to be because Donald Trump accepted a phone call from the Taiwanese leader or said something mean on Twitter. Though I'm sure the usual suspects will blame him for China's childish escalation and egregiously aggressive actions even in that hypothetical.

Trump has campaigned against getting involved in foreign wars, and after the international (non)response to Russia invading the Crimea, I doubt China has a ton to fear, internationally speaking, from an invasion of Taiwan.

Though the trade war / embargo may happen regardless of any motions towards Taiwan.

[JPhillips]

This won't happen all at once, but Taiwan and the one China policy are way more important to China than to us. We have very little to gain and an enormous amount to lose. "China deserves it," isn't anything upon which to build a beneficial foreign policy.

I hope Trump et al. have decided how far they are willing to go before looking for an escape route. Even getting into a trade war over Taiwan is ridiculous. The one China policy has been working well for all three parties involved.

[cartman]

Apparently someone shorted a bunch of Lockheed Martin stock about 5 minutes before the tweet came out this morning. And now Trump has cancelled his press conference that was scheduled for tomorrow that was supposed to outline how he is going to address potential conflicts of interest.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by cartman

Apparently someone shorted a bunch of Lockheed Martin stock about 5 minutes before the tweet came out this morning. And now Trump has cancelled his press conference that was scheduled for tomorrow that was supposed to outline how he is going to address potential conflicts of interest.

Of course he canceled. He can't be put in a position where he has to not only answer a question, but has to answer a follow up question to rebuke whatever euphemism about "the best", "the greatest", etc he responds with the first time around. You can bet he will have plenty of time to tweet though.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

This won't happen all at once, but Taiwan and the one China policy are way more important to China than to us. We have very little to gain and an enormous amount to lose. "China deserves it," isn't anything upon which to build a beneficial foreign policy.

I hope Trump et al. have decided how far they are willing to go before looking for an escape route. Even getting into a trade war over Taiwan is ridiculous. The one China policy has been working well for all three parties involved.

No, that's absurd. It hasn't worked at all. People getting upset over the Russian hacks? How about what China has done for years without any push back? The one China policy has helped China.

China NEEDS us just as bad as we need them. This is not the one way street it's made to be. They make all the stuff, they need someone to buy it. We actually have a lot to gain here. The debt can be negotiated down significantly for starters.

There is no way China wants to become North Korea part 2 and isolate themselves from the world. It won't work and they damned well know it.

Again, I don't like Trump, but this is actually a much needed thing. The time for this has long passed.

[JPhillips]

China will never bargain away the one China policy, it's foundational to their national image. If we want to push back against China, that isn't the way to go.

Read some of what James Fallows is writing about this. It's very level headed and insightful.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by TroyF

We actually have a lot to gain here. The debt can be negotiated down significantly for starters.

This is one of the worst ideas he's ever had and would be catastrophic to the economy.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by cartman

Apparently someone shorted a bunch of Lockheed Martin stock about 5 minutes before the tweet came out this morning.

It's legal if the president does it.

[RainMaker]

I'm actually going to defend Trump on the Lockheed thing. The stock would have plummeted if this had been an official release, or answered at a press conference, or come out in policy discussions. If it really is his decision to cut costs in that area, Lockheed wasn't going to be able to hide from it.

Lockheed also saw a fairly big spike right after the election because of the belief that Trump would be a big spender. In fact the stock is still higher than it was before the election.

If there was insider trading based on this, that's another story. But Trump laying out a policy direction isn't his fault.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

China will never bargain away the one China policy, it's foundational to their national image. If we want to push back against China, that isn't the way to go.

Read some of what James Fallows is writing about this. It's very level headed and insightful.

I've read extensively on this topic. The "One China" policy is beneficial to China, not to anyone else. The "One China" policy also doesn't mean they are allowed to steal trade secrets. (this isn't some new Republican scare tactic either, Obama spoke to Jinping about this in 2015. We just didn't do anything about it.)

If China wants this policy to continue, they can assure it continues by ending their hacking and spying program of IP. It's "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" Not "I scratch your back, you use a lighter to burn marks into my back and tell me I can't scream"

I'm not trying to be John Wayne here. And I understand the consequences of what could happen. Thing is, I've seen the consequences that have already happened and they need to stop and they need to stop now.

[JPhillips]

If you want to deal with China, this isn't the thing. They will never bargain over the one China policy. So then the question is, will we go to war over Taiwan? I certainly hope not, as we have almost nothing to gain by doing so.

And this has definitely been beneficial to Taiwan and the U.S. Without the agreed status quo, some sort of military conflict is damn near inevitable. As it stands, China gets to say Taiwan is part of China, Taiwan basically gets to be an independent nation, and we don't have to fight a war in Asia. It works, much the same way MAD worked during the Cold War. It sucks, but it's better than the alternative.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This is one of the worst ideas he's ever had and would be catastrophic to the economy.

Yeah, trying to negotiate down US Treasuries is banana republic type stuff. Or it's Greek to me. You choose.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Of course he canceled. He can't be put in a position where he has to not only answer a question, but has to answer a follow up question to rebuke whatever euphemism about "the best", "the greatest", etc he responds with the first time around. You can bet he will have plenty of time to tweet though.

Well that was easy to predict and didn't take long. Instead of having a press conference to address his businesses and answer live and unpredictable questions, DJT fires off a series of 3 tweets.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If you want to deal with China, this isn't the thing. They will never bargain over the one China policy. So then the question is, will we go to war over Taiwan? I certainly hope not, as we have almost nothing to gain by doing so.

And this has definitely been beneficial to Taiwan and the U.S. Without the agreed status quo, some sort of military conflict is damn near inevitable. As it stands, China gets to say Taiwan is part of China, Taiwan basically gets to be an independent nation, and we don't have to fight a war in Asia. It works, much the same way MAD worked during the Cold War. It sucks, but it's better than the alternative.

But NOTHING in the One China policy allows them to act the way they have.

NOTHING.

It's one of the utterly most ridiculous policies we have ever had as a nation. They set the ground rules. They set the terms of trade. They steal IP, trade secrets and blackmail any company they can steal from so they can add to their empire and we all act like this is a wonderful thing. We act like we should be grateful their great leaders allow us to talk to them.

This is simply NOT a sustainable arrangement. The second we no longer become useful to China, Taiwan is going down anyway. We are allowing them to play a 200 year long con, bankrupt our country and then they'll do what and we'll be at war.

This policy is important to China too. Massively important. Anyone acting like it isn't is out of their mind. (If it wasn't, they'd have just taken Taiwan 20 years ago and shut up shop like North Korea) We can and should make them uncomfortable and make them get to the table to answer for their crimes against Americans. The goal isn't war or to shut down trade or to kill people. Hell, it isn't even to get a completely equitable deal. The goal is to get a better deal and let the other party know there are two people in the game, not one.

[JPhillips]

Trade, espionage and IP issues aren't connected to the One China policy. I'm fine working on those issues, but using One China as the tool to do that won't work. They won't negotiate over that, so how will it help us achieve our goals?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trade, espionage and IP issues aren't connected to the One China policy. I'm fine working on those issues, but using One China as the tool to do that won't work. They won't negotiate over that, so how will it help us achieve our goals?

They will damned well negotiate over that. it's beneficial to them as well. The continuation of that policy is important to them. Everything needs to be put on the table. Even if internally we would never go away from the policy, we can't let them know it. Again, this is about setting terms that are better for both parties, not just one. When you do that, the entirety of every deal you have goes on the table.

They'll use our debt against us. (as they should, it's a powerful bargaining chip) They'll throw every bad thing we've ever done on the table. We need to be prepared to do the same. In fact, that's probably what gets this to the table to begin with. Why would China get to the table without the threat of losing anything?

US: "I'd like to talk to you about the billions of dollars a year in IP you have been stealing and the blackmaililng of American corporations."

China: "What exactly are you going to do about it"

US: "Well, I'm gonna stand over here and jump up and down and waive my arms in the air and hope you stop, k, thx, bye"


No. No. Just no. You say "If you don't do this, we are changing our policy towards you. You can make changes and we can all live happily and profitably or we can both go into deep recessions, but we aren't going to allow you to bankrupt us. The long con stops and it stops now or everything gets changed."

Obviously, I wish we had a president with less of a twitter presence to handle this. But none of the other ones seem to give a crap about it. I'm sure Trump will screw this up. I'm sure he's going to screw everything up.

I just happen to think he's right that China isn't our friend and it's time to change the terms of that relationship.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Obviously, I wish we had a president with less of a twitter presence to handle this. But none of the other ones seem to give a crap about it. I'm sure Trump will screw this up. I'm sure he's going to screw everything up.

Maybe you should ask why that (the bolded part) is? Something about battles and wars comes to mind.

President Obama, of course, was in the process of economically isolating China in Asia... it was called the TPP.