The OFFICIAL 2007 NHL Offseason Thread

[Travis]

Looks like Pitkanen is our only current RFA that I think we'd have to really worry about. Though I am surprised Lowe started his offensive without locking him up first. Deslauriers, Brodziak and Mikhnov are the others, but I can't imagine too much action on those fronts that Lowe wouldn't happily take the picks (or match if it's on the low end).

[Pyser]

i remembe the rangers signing sakic to an rfa offer starting the madness...

i think it came with a $14m salary in year 1.

[Maple Leafs]

I really think LA should make a big offer to Emery. They need a goalie, and he'd fit right in down there.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Pyser

i remembe the rangers signing sakic to an rfa offer starting the madness...

i think it came with a $14m salary in year 1.

Was that before the Hurricanes signed Federov to the deal with the ridiculous accelerator if he played in a conference finals game?

[Pyser]

hmm, i dont know. i think it was in 97...

incidentally, how much of a bargain does the dipietro deal already look? only 4.5m for a topflight goalie basically for the rest of time.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Travis

Looks like Pitkanen is our only current RFA that I think we'd have to really worry about. Though I am surprised Lowe started his offensive without locking him up first. Deslauriers, Brodziak and Mikhnov are the others, but I can't imagine too much action on those fronts that Lowe wouldn't happily take the picks (or match if it's on the low end).

I'm not sure if it is binding or not after a trade but the Flyers said they were taking Pitkanen to arbitration. So I'm not sure if that still holds true after the trade.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Fair enough, although I still think this was a dumb idea by Lowe.

Besides, isn't signing RFA's how the insane spending started a decade ago? I seem to remember guys (like Shanahan, Federov, and Tkachuk?) getting massive RFA offers in the mid-90's which was blamed as a large contributor to the overall rise in salaries.

What do you do if you're Lowe? You can't get UFA's to really consider coming to the team, other GM's know it so will use that as leverage in trade discussions. Drafting, while not an Oiler strength necessarily has still (along with previous trades) given the Oilers a very strong group of prospects, but it's not very likely that more than 1 or 2 of those guys will have much impact this season. He *needs* a scorer to pair with Hemsky, and our best answer for that (Lupul) was run out of town by the fans.

With the way that salaries are escalating for top end talent and the UFA age getting lower and lower, RFA offer sheets are going to become more and more common place, especially if the cap continues to rise. Lowe has a strong dollar to work with right now, but there are no promises that it'll continue to be that way, so the time to spend is now, but he's still trying to be "smart" with his money and make investments in players that will still be more likely to be worth their money five years into their deal.

I'd guess there are only 3-4 RFA's he'll make a run at, then it'll be back to trying to trade for a top line forward. If not, we spend a year with a lot of kids in the lineup and see who can (hopefully) elevate their game and head into a strong draft class with a lot of picks.

Personally, I still really like the direction the club is taking for the future, and assuming health won't be the same issue this season, *if* we can add a 35-40 goal scorer up front to play with Hemsky, there's no reason we can't be competitive this year (well, aside from our coaching staff, but that's a different rant for a different time).

[Maple Leafs]

According to Eklund, and this makes some sense, the Oilers did this knowing full well the Sabres would match. In fact, they were counting on it. He thinks it's actually a warning shot to other GMs -- trade us the rights to your RFAs for a reasonable price, or this is what you have to look forward to. Parise or Ryder could be the real target.

[Travis]

Another RFA name being thrown around right now is Penner. Would rather go that route than Ryder, though I'd still expect Parise to get the next offer.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Was that before the Hurricanes signed Federov to the deal with the ridiculous accelerator if he played in a conference finals game?

Ya that's the deal that I remember being the most criminal, because Detroit was almost guaranteed to go to the finals at that point.

I also remember Chicago signing Tkachuk to a massively front-loaded contract because they knew the Jets were in financial trouble. Stupid Jets should have just taken the picks...

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

According to Eklund, and this makes some sense, the Oilers did this knowing full well the Sabres would match. In fact, they were counting on it. He thinks it's actually a warning shot to other GMs -- trade us the rights to your RFAs for a reasonable price, or this is what you have to look forward to. Parise or Ryder could be the real target.

Heh, nice. Reading on Spector's, he stated that the Oiler's and Sabre's had talked but that the Oilers thought the Sabre's were bluffing that they'd match the offer sheet. I could see Eklund's reasoning a lot more if it was a team in the same division/conference (ie: Phaneuf next year) where you either pay a steep price and steal a key player or force them to pay out the nose to keep their young talent rather than getting a bargain RFA contract.

I'm still quite curious about trading rights and then getting them signed. Somebody is going to get burned on that next year (acquired rights not signing and heading to free agency), and I wonder if the practice will fade after that or not. Of course that's in the UFA sense, not RFA's, wouldn't make much sense for GM's to trade away RFA rights, just get them to sign faster and maybe for a bit more to speed up the process to avoid offer sheets.

[johnnyshaka]

Looks like Lowe isn't the only guy breaking the code:

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?articleid...e&service=page

"Obviously, the terms are pretty great, and we felt it was something Thomas wanted to do," said Vanek's agent, Steven Bartlett, adding that he also received offers from other teams.

[NoSkillz]

Keep burning those bridges Kevin. Geez.

I guess Vanek is the new leader in Buffalo. I love the kid but 10 million this year?!

Lowe won't make it to next year's draft. Mark my words. This is desperation at it's highest level.

[Travis]

Some interesting names that could potentially be listening to offers next year as RFA's (all information from nhlnumbers.com).

Phaneuf, Stoll, Getzlaf, Perry, Wolski, Seabrook, Boyes, Halak, Spezza, Montoya, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Crosby, Fleury, Lehtonen, Bouwmeester, Ovechkin, Semin.

I have to believe that seeing offers like this for Vanek, especially if there were other offers as well drives up their asking prices and potentially has some of these guys holding off on getting deals done prior to hitting RFA status to see what they could attract. I'd be surprised to see more than 3-4 of these guys not reupped prior to that, but in all likelihood for a lot more money than they thought they'd get even yesterday.

[MikeVic]

And the countdown to the next lockout begins. lol.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by NoSkillz

Keep burning those bridges Kevin. Geez.

I guess Vanek is the new leader in Buffalo. I love the kid but 10 million this year?!

Lowe won't make it to next year's draft. Mark my words. This is desperation at it's highest level.

I'd take that bet in a heart beat. The only way Lowe is gone is if he steps down. Unfortunately that means we're stuck with MacT and crew as I can't see Lowe ever axing him.

But again, it sounds like Lowe was not alone on the RFA offer, and expect that to be common place very soon. I just really hope that the NHL has language in place that will prevent poison pill deals like what happened with Hutchinson in the Sea/Minn debacle.

[Pyser]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

And the countdown to the next lockout begins. lol.

no, not lol.

the game very quickly broke itself again, at least for small market teams. i dont think this offseason will go down in history as a good one for the game.

[Dr. Sak]

Crosby has been talking with the Pens already about an extension.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Pyser

no, not lol.

the game very quickly broke itself again, at least for small market teams. i dont think this offseason will go down in history as a good one for the game.

What has any of this got to do with small market teams and what is actually broken?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Pyser

no, not lol.

the game very quickly broke itself again, at least for small market teams. i dont think this offseason will go down in history as a good one for the game.

Oh, I meant kind of like a "HAH. Look what's happening now."

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

What has any of this got to do with small market teams and what is actually broken?

I can see this happening more every year. A team will either overpay a star player RFA to get them away from a team, or overpay to keep them on their team. It'll just keep escalating the salaries at a faster pace than UFA.

[Honolulu_Blue]

This makes me happy.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/233205

Scott Clemmensen may not have been able to help the Maple Leafs into the playoffs last season, but he'll get a chance to help them more directly now.

According to Star sources, the former New Jersey Devils goaltender has signed a two-way contract with the Leafs and is expected to be the club's No. 3 goaltender this season, working with the AHL Toronto Marlies alongside youngster Justin Pogge.

Clemmenson, 29, has backed up Vezina Trophy winning goalie Martin Brodeur for parts of five seasons, playing only six games last season and 13 the year before.

On the final day oflast season, with the Leafs needing New Jersey to beat the New York Islanders to get into the playoffs, the Devils gave Clemmensen the start and he played well enough to push the game to a shootout, which was won by the Islanders.

The Boston College grad, a native of Des Moines, Iowa, will replace Jean-Sebastien Aubin and J.F. Racine on the Leaf goaltending depth chart.
Clemmensen was made expendable in New Jersey when the Devils signed the more experienced Kevin Weekes as an unrestricted free agent this week.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/233205

Scott Clemmensen may not have been able to help the Maple Leafs into the playoffs last season, but he'll get a chance to help them more directly now. According to Star sources, the former New Jersey Devils goaltender has signed a two-way contract with the Leafs and is expected to be the club's No. 3 goaltender this season, working with the AHL Toronto Marlies alongside youngster Justin Pogge.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I admit. I was very tempted to post this bit of news in its very own "PING: Maple Leafs!" thread.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I can see this happening more every year. A team will either overpay a star player RFA to get them away from a team, or overpay to keep them on their team. It'll just keep escalating the salaries at a faster pace than UFA.

Then again, maybe the Vanek situation will smarten owners up and maybe make them pay less for retreads like Guerin and spend some of their money on making sure they lockup their young talent instead.

And what does that have to do with small market teams?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Then again, maybe the Vanek situation will smarten owners up and maybe make them pay less for retreads like Guerin and spend some of their money on making sure they lockup their young talent instead.

And what does that have to do with small market teams?

Yeah, that can happen too, and I hope that's the case. I'm just worried when I see a potential for salaries to increase quickly.

I didn't personally say anything about small market teams, but I think it could mean small market teams won't be able to keep their young talent, and will perpetually suck.

[Fidatelo]

Small market teams that rely on young, relatively cheap talent will have trouble fending off teams that attempt to poach their RFA's. What good are a bunch of draft-picks if other teams are consistently prying them away just as they start to produce?

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Small market teams that rely on young, relatively cheap talent will have trouble fending off teams that attempt to poach their RFA's. What good are a bunch of draft-picks if other teams are consistently prying them away just as they start to produce?

Then make sure to renegotiate the contracts before they expire.. Sure, this is only allowed during the final year of a contract, but still..

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Coder

Then make sure to renegotiate the contracts before they expire.. Sure, this is only allowed during the final year of a contract, but still..

But why would a young star agree to a contract if they know they'll get more from a richer team?

[johnnyshaka]

Teams are only as rich as the salary cap lets them be...and at the rate that the cap is currently going up, we'll be back to free-wheeling days before too long.

But, the "Vanek Affair" has nothing to do with any of this...the cap has risen by $11 million in the last two years...small market teams can blame that for losing their young players to richer teams.

[Fidatelo]

The cap rise is indeed a large part of the problem. I'm confused how that has even happened. I read somewhere this week that the NBA's estimated cap for next year will be 56mil. How on earth is the NHL's cap almost as high as the NBA's? Seriously, the NHL has like 8 fans south of Fargo, and somehow they can afford to dish out the same amount to payroll as the NBA?

[RPI-Fan]

Do people not get it? Total salaries will NOT accelerate faster than total revenue. It will not happen.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Do people not get it? Total salaries will NOT accelerate faster than total revenue. It will not happen.

Exactly, and the growth rate *should* slow down at this point. And if revenues decrease, there are roll backs written in the CBA for the contracts.

The biggest problem the league has right now is Bettman and the talk of expansion.

[johnnyshaka]

The more I think about it, the more I realize that what Lowe did today really won't happen all that often because I think the Oilers are currently in a very unique position. He's got tons of money to spend, extra draft picks, and a pretty well stocked farm system. So, to him, offering a big contract like he did to Vanek really doesn't hurt him anywhere as he can afford it and he's got enough youth and extra picks to get by the next couple of years without his first rounders.

How often is that situation going to arise?

[RPI-Fan]

It hurts him because everyone will poach from Edmonton now (that's the argument people will make at least).

[johnnyshaka]

You are missing my point...if teams are going to poach they would be best served to make sure they are in a position in which they can afford the contract and the hit in the draft pick department. My point being that this situation isn't one that presents itself all that often.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Do people not get it? Total salaries will NOT accelerate faster than total revenue. It will not happen.

I guess that's great, assuming the revenue sharing is good enough.

Regardless, I still find it hard to believe that the NHL has revenues even close to comparable with the NBA.

[Travis]

Re: the RFA offer sheets

I don't think you'll see many on the level Lowe offered today, mostly likely the most common offer sheet will be the one that costs the team a 1st, 2nd and 3rd (I think it is). Not sure off the top of my head but I think that's around the 4.8 million per year offer or one tier below that.

So still good money, but yes, the Oilers have a huge draft pick pool to play with right now, so they can go a bit nuttier than most. Also another reason they may choose to play the same game next year with a much more impressive list of potential RFA's (again, expecting most of those guys to be taken off the market during this season).

[Pyser]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Do people not get it? Total salaries will NOT accelerate faster than total revenue. It will not happen.

i think they already have. i mean, where is all this money coming from? ticket prices?? it seems impossible to be this high this quick without a half-decent tv deal. i think somethings rotten in denmark, and the shit will hit the fan in an offseason or two.

[johnnyshaka]

Eklund is reporting that Selanne is now a Flyer.

[Travis]

Wow, the Dallas Stars get two former Oilers in Brad Winchester and Toby Peterson today.

Thank god we don't have to sit through another season of Peterson on the top unit PP because he's MacT's cabana boy. Nothing against Toby but he either had some fantastic blackmail material on MacT or knew just what he liked.

And if, indeed, Selanne is a Flyer, they have an absolutely scary top 3 lines going on.

[johnnyshaka]

Yeah, saw that tid bit on Toby and Brad...oh well, no harm done.

[Blade]

All I can say is thank God Toby is on his way out...

And it is too bad for Winchester, but he had to move on. He was ruined here, and he deserves a fresh start in a place that will give him a real shot...

[Karim]

What has accelerated the cap is the strength of the Canadian dollar. The six Canadian teams account for 33% of the league's revenue, each having contributed to revenue sharing.

It's not something anyone could have predicted and the net effect is pushing the salary floor up to a point that will cause losses for small-market US teams.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Eklund is reporting that Selanne is now a Flyer.

I'm going to have to see Teemu in Flyer orange to believe that. Absolutely no way. He just wouldn't do it. Unless the Ducks flat out told him to go, he wouldn't leave, except to retire. Heck, he already pretty much said this himself.

Anyone believe the Ducks told their most popular player to take a hike?

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm going to have to see Teemu in Flyer orange to believe that. Absolutely no way. He just wouldn't do it. Unless the Ducks flat out told him to go, he wouldn't leave, except to retire. Heck, he already pretty much said this himself.

Anyone believe the Ducks told their most popular player to take a hike?

Have yet to see this anywhere else, which, if it's a done deal is very surprising.

But yeah, add me to the list of people who would be amazed if he ends up donning a Flyers jersey.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

YEklund is reporting that Selanne is now a Flyer.

I am as big of a Flyer fan as they get and I doubt this happens.

[johnnyshaka]

LOL! I just about to reply about your message about the quote you originally quoted...this one makes much more sense.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

LOL! I just about to reply about your message about the quote you originally quoted...this one makes much more sense.

Wha...?

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wha...?

Sorry, Chief, he had quoted my message about not caring about Toby and Brad leaving Edmonton with his "I'm a Flyers' fan and don't believe it" which was obviously intended for the quote he has there now.

Guess you had to be there.