Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And that's what leaves me scratching my head so much in this instance.
I mean, I know what you said is true. And you know that it's true. And he's already been around the block with TNA once already, so they know what he's like.

So WTF was she thinking in rehiring the guy?

All I've been able to figure is that they managed to get the deal with Spike without him but had some sort of specific ratings benchmarks in the 18-34 demos they had to hit in order to keep the deal and/or get the second hour (which I fully expect will make things much much worse instead of better).

I know it's the same ol', same ol', but Russo and Jarrett are best friends and Jarrett has stake in TNA so it only makes sense.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

... and Jarrett has stake in TNA so it only makes sense.

But JJ's stake, at maximum, is 28%. That's how much was left for his father when Panda Energy purchased majority interest. And that's why I put the blame so squarely back on Dixie Carter, since she could have (and should have) just said no.

I had forgotten the origin of that whole deal until trying (unsuccessfully) to find TNA's financial statements online this afternoon. Dixie worked as a publicist for TNA & convinced her father (founder & CEO of Panda Energy Corp) to invest to keep TNA from going under. And until today I didn't know that Panda had sold off all their holdings in the SE/SW as well as their stake in a project in China and is in the process of reinventing themselves as a producer of ethanol with underdeveloped overseas markets as their target.

And, while I'm on the subject, I still want to get a copy of Jerry Jarrett's TNA-era biography & read it. Supposedly it goes behind the scenes from the formation of the company to the development of the weekly PPV model up to the point of sale to Panda.

[Toddzilla]

With Westminster pre-empting RAW on USA, isn't TNA going to be on Spike tonight?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

With Westminster pre-empting RAW on USA, isn't TNA going to be on Spike tonight?

Yeah, 9p-11p Eastern. It's a "Best of TNA" thing, 6 matches from previous PPV's ...

FROM BOUND FOR GLORY 2006:
NWA World Heavyweight Title Match – Career vs. Title
Jeff Jarrett vs. Sting
NWA World Tag Team Title Match – Six Sides Of Steel
AJ Styles & Christopher Daniels vs. The Latin American Xchange
Eight-Mile Street Fight
Christian Cage vs. “The War Machine” Rhino

FROM SLAMMIVERSARY 2006:
King of the Mountain Match For The NWA World Heavyweight Title
Christian Cage vs. Jeff Jarrett vs. Sting vs. Abyss vs. The Truth

FROM GENESIS 2006:
Dream Match Of The Decade
Olympic Gold Medalist Kurt Angle vs. “The Samoan Submission Machine” Samoa Joe

In addition, all matches on the two-hour special will be enhanced by TNA Film, giving viewers a unique perspective with never-before-seen footage!

ALSO FEATURED ON THE TWO-HOUR SPECIAL:

- A Countdown to the top five moments in TNA Wrestling history

- The unveiling of TNA’s newest innovative concept match set to debut at March’s “Destination X” Pay-Per-View!

- A music video from Chris Jericho’s band “Fozzy”

- A look back at the some of the legends and celebrities that have appeared in TNA Wrestling

- Highlights of some of the most bloody and gruesome moments in TNA history

- An extensive look at TNA’s X Division and the high-flying Ultimate X Match

[Dawgfan1980]

I've been watching wrestling too long (and, somehow, I'm getting married later this year), and the only shows I like to watch are the Ring of Honor shows and tapes. They actually WRESTLE for more than 4 minutes a match. Was able to watch Samoa Joe v. CM Punk go 60 minutes, in a great match, and the Death Before Dishonor IV where another federation (CZW) went up against ROH for 45 minutes in the Cage of Death (A CZW type match) and did a great friggen job on it. If you like wrestling, ROH might be your cup of tea, think NWA wrestling circa 1990 with ECW storylines almost, and no one gets squashed, and everyone looks good.

[Terps]

If you like longer matches like that I'd suggest picking up some tapes from Japan. Older AJPW, NJPW, NOAH, for crusierweights you could go with Toryumon, Dragon Gate, MPro, etc. If you like hardcore wrestling, go with FMW, BJPW, W*ING, etc. Even the Joshi (women's) wrestling puts the stuff over here to shame.

[Dawgfan1980]

Everything in Japanese wrestling puts ours to shame, because they have more than one brand. At this point, I think it was a McMahon plot to put Russo back in charge at TNA to really show us two horrible products three times a week (I don't count ECW, it doesn't exist). I'll stick to my ROH twice a month, and my vids of Kenta Kobashi v. Samoa Joe. The result may have been known ahead of time, but I don't know if I've ever seen two men hit each other THAT hard ever.

[DeToxRox]

Just chiming in that I'll be at both ROH WM Weekend Shows to see Dragon Gate in action.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Just chiming in that I'll be at both ROH WM Weekend Shows to see Dragon Gate in action.

Bitch.

[SirFozzie]

The new special Match: Elevation X: Ultimate X on Scaffolds.

it's higher, the spots are stupider.. P

[Dawgfan1980]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Just chiming in that I'll be at both ROH WM Weekend Shows to see Dragon Gate in action.

Lucky Bitch. For some reason, ROH doesn't get over to Seattle that often...

[Deattribution]

ECW's December to Dismember did a whopping 90 thousand buys, that's WWE's worse buyrate in 10+ years. Considering the approach McMahon pushed on that show with only one match, I'm not surprised and glad to see it blow up in his face.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Coolness.

Christopher Daniels guesting tonight on Numbers. I didn't see the opening segment, not sure if he was in that segment or not but about midway through, he sits silently at a press conference as one of the two contenders for an MMA title match. Tito Ortiz is playing the champion character btw.

Daniels meanwhile makes at least his 4th appearance as an actor, previously getting bit shots in Buffy, The Practice, and The Rage:Carrie 2.

Although I have to say, as cool as I think this is, a casting agent really missed an opportunity by not casting Low Ki in this sort of role.

[DeToxRox]

Another wrestler dies ..

Mike Alfonso, better known to wrestling fans as Mike Awesome was found dead at the age of 42 in Tampa.

Friends were going to pick him up at his home, he didn't answer the door and was found hanging. This is being ruled a suicide until the results of the autopsy.

[MikeVic]

Oh no! Mike Awesome! That sucks.

[molson]

I wonder if this is another one of those Andre Waters/multiple concussion deals. Awesome would certainly be a candidate. The timing of the end of his career was a little odd, considering he showed he could still bring it at One Night Stand two years ago, and seemingly could have made a living on the indys or in Japan.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by molson

I wonder if this is another one of those Andre Waters/multiple concussion deals. Awesome would certainly be a candidate. The timing of the end of his career was a little odd, considering he showed he could still bring it at One Night Stand two years ago, and seemingly could have made a living on the indys or in Japan.

According to PWInsider he blew out his knee at One Night Stand and never wrestled again.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...312/index.html
SI.com article on the Florida steroid investigation alleges that Kurt Angle was one of the patients of a compounding pharmacy raided last year.

• Kurt Angle, a 1996 Olympic gold-medal-winning freestyle wrestler and now a star professional wrestler, received two prescriptions for trenbolone and one for nandrolone between October 2004 and February '05. (Angle did not return messages left with his spokesman.)

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...312/index.html
SI.com article on the Florida steroid investigation alleges that Kurt Angle was one of the patients of a compounding pharmacy raided last year.

• Kurt Angle, a 1996 Olympic gold-medal-winning freestyle wrestler and now a star professional wrestler, received two prescriptions for trenbolone and one for nandrolone between October 2004 and February '05. (Angle did not return messages left with his spokesman.)

Illegal steroids, oh oh... explains his huge neck lol.

[SirFozzie]

well, that and the fact his neck is so badly screwed up that he's risking paralysis

[finketr]

if it is prescription, why isn't that covered under the HIPAA???????????

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by finketr

if it is prescription, why isn't that covered under the HIPAA???????????

Best I can figure (and I'm open to the possibility that I'm figuring wrong) is that there might be some questions about the legality of the prescriptions.

[molson]

Bad News Brown died today:

hxxp://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2007/03/06/3704792.html

Can't really include him in the "early wrestling deaths", because he was 63 (which makes me feel really old), but still unfortunate.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...312/index.html
SI.com article on the Florida steroid investigation alleges that Kurt Angle was one of the patients of a compounding pharmacy raided last year.

• Kurt Angle, a 1996 Olympic gold-medal-winning freestyle wrestler and now a star professional wrestler, received two prescriptions for trenbolone and one for nandrolone between October 2004 and February '05. (Angle did not return messages left with his spokesman.)

i guess it it would be too much to hope that these scripts were written to assist in recovery from an injury, much like david segui actually had a medical necessity to take the steroids he has admitted using.

[albionmoonlight]

So I'm flipping through channels and notice TNA on, so I decide to watch a tag match.

One of the guys wrestling is Robert Rude.

Any relation to Ravishing Rick?

(Total noob question, I know, but I am about 12 months out of watching wrestling, so I guess I am a noob).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Not as far as I know.

In the TNA case it's Roode, and is apparently his real name.
In the case of Rick Rude, his last name was Rood.

[JeffNights]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not as far as I know.

In the TNA case it's Roode, and is apparently his real name.
In the case of Rick Rude, his last name was Rood.

In my Humble Opinion, this guy should change his wrestling name to something else...i've seen him wrestle, and he aint no Rick Rude!

[albionmoonlight]

Thanks.

Rick Rude was the first heel that I ever liked as a kid growing up.

[saldana]

from a new article on SI.com about the raids

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ids/index.html

Originally Posted by SI.com

We also received a statement from wrestler Kurt Angle: "I did not improperly receive prescriptions. It is well documented that in my career I have broken vertebrae in my neck on five occasions and each time the course of treatment was under the care and supervision of my doctors. Any attempt to link me to the athletes in the current news accounts who may have improperly sought performance-enhancing drugs is without foundation."

SI.com: Taking this at face value, could athletes such as Angle have been prescribed HGH in conjunction with treatment?

Llosa/Wertheim: This cuts to the heart of why HGH is so controversial. Mark Schutta, a University of Pennsylvania endocrinologist, told us that under Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) regulations, HGH, unlike some anabolic steroids, is not a controlled substance. Some doctors contend that HGH -- synthetic human growth hormone -- should be prescribed only in the rarest cases, such as children suffering from dwarfism and patients with AIDS wasting syndrome. They would say that an otherwise healthy adult male in his late 20s has no business using such a prescription-potent drug. Other doctors take a more liberal attitude and contend that HGH has curative properties and can be prescribed "off-label," so to speak.

"To me the question is whether there's a legitimate doctor-patient relationship and, if so, was there a medical necessity for the prescription?" says Carlon Colker, M.D., former competitive bodybuilder and now medical director of Peak Wellness, Inc., which trains elite pro and Olympic athletes. "If there's a doctor-patient relationship and the doctor thought there's a medical necessity, leave the guy alone. If HGH is being prescribed strictly so a guy can throw a perfect game, then it's an abuse."

[JonInMiddleGA]

IIRC, Angle's doctor was one that tended to go with less than typical techniques which is how Angle ended up with him. Again, if memory serves & the reports at the time were accurate, he was the only doctor who recommended a course of treatment that didn't involved major (and career-ending) surgery.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Vince Russo couldn't book a flight if William Shatner came to his house & helped him.

{pissed at the shitty booking that denies the Dudleys a chance to hold the NWA World Tag Titles)

edit to add: What an odd PPV, or at least I'm scratching my head a little bit at my reaction to it.
On the whole, the work rate was actually pretty good, or at worst it was okay ... but the booking was absolutely awful. Probably accounts for the crowd chanting "Fire Russo" during the Sting-Abyss match (which was oddly interesting as did some Flair-esque bleeding).

But all the strange/useless/ aggravating stuff ... Muta in the pre-show & then a comedy segment backstage with Cage, the ill-considered Elevation X match, the Hemme-VKM crap -- and how in the hell are VKM the faces in this one? is the Orlando crowd that misogynistic? It sure isn't related to workrate, I think Hemme might have as much left in the tank as Kip & B.G. who looked awful as did the Heartbreakers, LowKi/ Starr/Backlund is just odd, Daniels new character seems primed to be part of Seratonin ... who weren't on the PPV ... Hernandez looked quite good, but Homicide seems less & less inspired over the past several weeks ... and it's Dutt/Lethal/Lowki/Petey who chase Cage back into the ring when he tried to take a countout, I'm glad they got a paycheck & all but the HW champ getting pushed around by them (given the current state of their pushes) doesn't look good to me. ... and how could I have forgotten the bizarro logic of having Alex Shelley be some sort of honorary member of LAX?

And then there's the 'net reports about Angle vs Joe at the next PPV make no sense at all unless it's supposed to be a #1 contenders match or something, or unless they're going to let the title change hands on Impact ... which is further made strange by the reports all last week that they're going to be dropping the NWA licensing & just make it a TNA World Title.

At this point, I'm hoping they don't go to two hours any time soon, they don't have the writing/booking ability at the moment to do anything but create an absolute abomination of a show of that length.

I knew things were hitting a low point when during the title match I found myself hoping that Jarrett would make his return & interfere somehow. Come to think of it, I wouldn't put it past him to be hoping that's what'll happen & it's why Russo is on board again in the first place -- screw it up royally, JJ returns, Russo gets fired, and the show improves, leaving him to get the credit for it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And on a sad note that I just ran across tonight

from http://www.wrestlemag.com/
WWE: WWF HALL OF FAMER PASSES AWAY
by Mark Bright
11 March 2007, 1:28 pm

“Big Cat” Ernie Ladd passed away last night at the age of 68, reports Louisiana based publication The News Star.

The former WWF star, who was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1995, had been battling cancer for several years.

Rest In Peace Big Cat.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And then there's the 'net reports about Angle vs Joe at the next PPV make no sense at all unless it's supposed to be a #1 contenders match or something, or unless they're going to let the title change hands on Impact ... which is further made strange by the reports all last week that they're going to be dropping the NWA licensing & just make it a TNA World Title.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the title will change hands at the tapings tonight. That's Russo's M.O. RATINGS~!

[MikeVic]

I found it interesting that the PPV actually went 3 hours (or within a few minutes at least)! But I was bored with a lot of it.

[Flasch186]

The question is do the people in the boardroom and that have the power Know or hear about what the fans think of this Russo stuff? Does anyone ever bring up the track record Russo has of an initial bump but the dying effect that follows? I just cant believe that theyre on an island and dont hear this stuff.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

The question is do the people in the boardroom and that have the power Know or hear about what the fans think of this Russo stuff? Does anyone ever bring up the track record Russo has of an initial bump but the dying effect that follows? I just cant believe that theyre on an island and dont hear this stuff.

Anyone who can rise from fat independent video store owner and wrestling fan to head booker of WWE has a tremendous amount of charisma and an ability to make an impression on higher-ups. Sadly, in any business, that's way more important than ability or results.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

The question is do the people in the boardroom and that have the power Know or hear about what the fans think of this Russo stuff? Does anyone ever bring up the track record Russo has of an initial bump but the dying effect that follows? I just cant believe that theyre on an island and dont hear this stuff.

Actually, Dixie Carter went on radio a couple of weeks ago defending Russo & saying that fans were blaming him for things that weren't his fault, blah blah blah.

I'm rapidly reaching the conclusion that's she's either sleeping with him or she's simply a complete idiot who hasn't got a clue. And since her daddy owns the majority interest in the company & seems to have basically given it to her to run, the ultimate responsibility seems to rest with her.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oh good grief, from bad to worse

http://www.tnawrestlingnews.com/head...75724047.shtml
Source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Shawn "Meat" Stasiak was backstage at the last set of iMPACT! tapings because he was in town for Mike Awesome's funeral. He was talking with people about getting back into wrestling.

Stasiak is 36 years old, but he could easily pass off as 28 years old. Physically, he looks very close to how what looked like during his wrestling days.

An advantage he may have in getting into TNA is that Vince Russo pushed him really hard in WCW in 2000.

[MikeVic]

I also find it funny that Kip James said something like: "Why would a guy want to work for a woman?! In this world, women belong in the kitchen and bedroom."

But umm... isn't Kip technically working for Dixie Carter? heh.

[DeToxRox]

I read Mick Foleys new book the Hardcore Diaries in a day. Excellent read that really pulls no punches. Very enjoyable, on par with Have a Nice Day, but without the humor. It is funny, don't get me wrong, but it's just a lot more in your face then his other two.

[TazFTW]

"Finally The Rock has come back to Monday Night Raw."

Never thought I would hear another Rock promo, taped or otherwise. Nice markout moment there.

[molson]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

"Finally The Rock has come back to Monday Night Raw."

Never thought I would hear another Rock promo, taped or otherwise. Nice markout moment there.

Definitely. But damn he looked thin (in a good way) - I don't think he'll ever be in a ring again, even in a non-wrestling capacity.

[Toddzilla]

Ernie Ladd dies, and this guy still walks the earth? Sheesh...

Jake "The Snake" Roberts had his false teeth come out of his mouth during a recent wrestling match with Casey Thompson at an indie show on 3/3 in Davie, Florida. Roberts' appearance during the match was quite embarrassing. Roberts had a hard time getting up after going down, not to mention that he looked really out of shape. He looked disoriented in the ring at times as well. In regards to his teeth, Thompson delivered a forearm to Roberts while he was tied up on the ropes and his false teeth flew out of his mouth. The ref then kicked the teeth to the corner so that they wouldn't get stepped on. A security guard then grabbed them and gave them to Roberts, who then lodged them back into his mouth. Unfortunately, they didn't seem to fit correctly as Roberts may have also gotten a swollen jaw from the forearm.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Roberts was also a no-show for a recent FIP show in Florida. In typical indy fashion, the promoter said Roberts showed up drunk while Roberts claims the promoter refused to pay him what they originally agreed upon.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Ernie Ladd dies, and this guy still walks the earth? Sheesh...

Jake the Snake was one of my favorites growing up. And, like I noted above, I also liked Rick Rude a lot.

So their feud had me totally marking out when I was a kid.

Now, Rick Rude is dead and Jake the Snake is wrestling in indy shows with false teeth.

Sigh.

[Flasch186]

....when he's not binging on crack.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just in case anybody might be interested, 20%-25% off pretty much everything in the store at www.rohwrestling.com until Thursday night 10pm Eastern). Orders under $50 get 20% off with discount code "march20", overs over $50 get 25% off with discount code "march25".

Details at
http://www.rohwrestling.com/news/article.aspx?id=1041

[DeToxRox]

WrestleMania weekend shows in Detroit are looking insane.

I am so pumped to be in attendance.

[JonInMiddleGA]

WSX marathon of most of the remaining unaired episode (all but one) about to begin on MTV (in case anyone here is among the few who actually cared)

[JonInMiddleGA]

In a couple of hours, it's time to make the hour drive northeast to the little town of Cornelia, GA for the 11th annual "Hardcore Hell", one of the four major shows of the year for NWA-Anarchy.

Double Main Event

Anarchy Rules Match - Fans Bring the Weapons
The Devils Rejects (Tank, Iceberg, Azrael, Shuan Tempers, & Dominous, with Rev. Dan Wilson)
vs
The NWA Elite (David Young, Kory Chavis, Jeff Lewis, Onyx, Abomination, with Jeff G. Bailey)
One of the hottest indy fueds in years continues with what promises to be a bloody & brutal bit of mayhem. "The Messiah of the Spinebuster" returns to try to help tip things in the favor of The Elite in a battle of heel stables, but I doubt this will end things regardless of the outcome. We're prepared:
2 cheese graters, a couple of cookie sheets, and a frying pan

Double Jeopardy Match w/ both Anarchy titles on the line
HW Champion Chad Parham vs TV Champion Ace Rockwell vs former TV champ Jeremy Vain vs former HW champ Slim J.
The build-up to this match has left none of the men liking the other very much, not even the faces Rockwell & Slim. Nobody really likes Parham & Vain really doesn't like anybody. Interesting match to me if only because I could make a good case for at least 3 of the 4 being the winner & have little idea how it'll actually be booked.

Anarchy Tag Team Title Match - Double Hangman's Noose Match
Justice Served (Mikki Free & Jason Justice w/ Al Getz) vs Urban Assault Squad (Nemesis & Shadow Jackson w/Jerry Palmer)
Anarchy owner Palmer ended up right in the middle of things at the last show when he tried to rescue the beautiful ring girl from a beating at the hands of the champs Justice Served. UAS had to rescue Palmer & that set up the double hangman's noose match where the loser is the first man to be hung by the neck. This is just the next installment of a feud expected to last at least until the end of summer & with Palmer getting involved against the evil little gnome Getz ("What Al wants ... Al Gets"), it could be another classic indy rivalry before its finished

The Hollywood Brunettes vs Hayden Young & Austin Creed
The newcomer heels have spent more than a month bedeviling Young & Creed, the most over young tag team in the promotion. Will tonight be their revenge, or will the Brunettes keep the upper hand?

Handicap Match
Patrick Bentley vs Seth Delay & Adrian Hawkins
"The Human Action Figure" Bentley has become a much darker person since his former partner Delay turned on him & recruited the young (and not real bright) Hawkins to help. Bentley is mad as hell & I don't think he's going to take it anymore, but can he overcome the legal two-on-one odds?

Sal Rinauro vs Todd Sexton
Two weeks ago, Rinauro knocked Sexton cold with a dumbell from the weight room before a scheduled 6-man tag match. Now it's time for the bookerman to get some revenge (Sexton is the real-life head booker for Anarchy).

Eight-Man Tag Match
Shatter & Fields and Team Macktion (AJ & Kirby Mack) vs Anger, Inc.
(Adam Roberts & Don Matthews) and Brodie Ray Chase & Brandon Phoenix
Probably the curtain jerker match for the night, it may end up being the one I have the most fun watching. The Mack Brothers are talented & fun, Shatter & Fields are ex-Marines playing the bulked up young faces. Meanwhile, Chase is an indy veteran who plays the Southern Old-School Heel role beautifully & has worked wonders in helping Phoenix finally develop a personality that connects with the fans (albeit causing them to despise him). Matthews is a relative newcomer to the promotion but he's like a younger version of Chase who surprised the heck out of me with the ability to draw heel heat with a redneck dimwit gimmick & Roberts is a guy who unfortunately lacks the body build to go with a well-above average set of skills for the indy level. This will almost certainly be 70's booking at it's glorious best & I expect I'll have a ball watching it.