WW Small Game IX- The Cold War !! game over CIA win

[Lathum]

You all gather in the morning hoping you are all present. You notice one of you is missing. ImTheCrew isn't there. You rush to his quarters hoping he overslept, he was always a bit lazy. When you arrive you discover a gruesome scene, he has been assasinated execution style.

day 4 has begun. Deadline 9:00PM

[molson]

Looks like a "safe hit" - someone they knew was an American, but knew probably didn't have any armor.

[Alan T]

hmm.


Well I had pretty much figured by this point that ITC was good. I think my suspect list from yesterday still remains in my mind.

Not sure who I feel like pressing.. Molly, Barkeep or Cronin today

[st.cronin]

vote ardent enthusiast

I won't be around at all today, so this is my wag. I feel like I'm being messed with.

[Poli]

?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

vote ardent enthusiast

I won't be around at all today, so this is my wag. I feel like I'm being messed with.

Its unfortunate that you won't be around today as I'm leaning to voting for you.

I feel very strongly that either you or ardent are bad.. and right now frankly Ardent has done more than you to help those fears.

[Poli]

It makes me wonder if I was just unlucky with the phonetap.

[Poli]

My vote will have to be early today. I'm heading to STL in about 3-4 hours for the weekend. I'll be in and out over the weekend and back full time on Monday.

That said, it's leaning to cronin unless someone sells me.

[Poli]

So, does anyone else have information about yesterday before I head out? I will likely have to leave here in two hours.

[saldana]

ok, since my role has been renedered useless by CR's death, i will am gonna reveal everything.

The thing that everyone needs to remember is that I didnt find out if the people i spoke to were spies or not, just that they werent the mercenary.

I am the negotiator. I was trying to find the merc and bring him over to the CIA side, which was also one reason why i wasnt post alot in the evenings...i thought if i seemed like i was hardly playing, the wolves would leave me alone.

on night 1 i went to see st cronin, but Bulletsponge was guarding the door and I went back to my room with out doing anything....so yes, i did know he was the bodyguard, but didnt want to out him, and didnt think he would just let himself get lynched without saying anything.

on night 2 i had a chat with ardent enthusiast, we discussed his loyalties, and i was given every indication he was loyal to america.

on night 3 i went to see alan t, had a nice chat about the 4th of july, and then went back to my room to find it had been robbed and my infra-red goggles were missing.

[molson]

At least two curious kills so far - is it possible that the spies aren't as cohesive as usual? (Either an unkown built-in game restriction, disagreements among the bad guys, or issues with availability?)

[molson]

AE - is saldana telling the truth?

[molson]

So assuming no one contradicts Saldana, either Saldana, AE, and Alan are all good, or they're all bad, right?

[Barkeep49]

I'm going to go ahead and Vote cronin as ardent has been known to false clear people before because of the instinctual way he plays the game. I really believe at this point that he's good and simply received bad information about cronin.

[saldana]

so my initial thoughts about my visits were that st cronin is likely a good guy. since i know he was in his room on night one, and ardent told us his phone tap was clean, that means he didnt kill anyone, and he didnt do anything else obvious.

ardent originally got my full trust for protecting my identity, but then as i thought about it i started to have a little doubt....if ardent is a wolf, i would not havve found out, and then the very next night, someone comes to my room and robs it....my concern is that it was actually a hit, and i only survived because i wasnt there...so ardent is pretty high on my list of trusted for not outing me, but he is also still a suspect.

alan is pretty much a lock for me to trust. he also could have outed me and didnt, but he further protected me when others started asking questions about who came to visit him and basically told people to stop asking so the process of elimination couldnt be used to figure it out.

so overall, my trust list looks like this

100%
Me
Alan

90%
Ardent
Cronin

50-50
bear
molosn

0%
barkeep (cant believe he hasnt said much of anything all game)
molly (her votes are just setting off huge bells for me)

[Poli]

Originally Posted by molson

AE - is saldana telling the truth?

Most definitely.

[Poli]

Sal,

The process of elimination with people asking was driving me up the wall as well.

[molson]

Well, since there's no more reason to protect Saldana, I can reveal that he's the guy who I saw out of his bed the night before last. And Saldana, I stole your goggles. I used them last night, and saw nobody, which was kind of annoying. I heard something that sounded like a gunshot or a door being slammed shut, and I went back to bed.

Not sure why I couldn't see anyone - I didn't see any items in the initial list that gave the spies any "concealing" power, but maybe something was introduced.

[Alan T]

Sal,

The one concern I have is I have a strong suspicion that your role is like you said it is.. you dont know if they are a spy or not. Cronin didn't know who you were, he never saw you... Also we already knew night 1 he didn't do anything..

I'm not sure that we can put Cronin that highly trusted and I really feel its possible he could be bad. I'm really having issues with a few things between Cronin and Ardent and right now just feel like you do better about Ardent. But I think having Cronin at that high of % trust as you listed is just a mistake.

I think I agree with you about Barkeep and Molly as well. Barkeep has really behaved wierdly this game, and when I have brought it up, he's completely ignored it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by molson

Well, since there's no more reason to protect Saldana, I can reveal that he's the guy who I saw out of his bed the night before last. And Saldana, I stole your goggles. I used them last night, and saw nobody, which was kind of annoying. I heard something that sounded like a gunshot or a door being slammed shut, and I went back to bed.

Not sure why I couldn't see anyone - I didn't see any items in the initial list that gave the spies any "concealing" power, but maybe something was introduced.

How did you steal his goggles?

[Poli]

I'll throw it out there:

Vote barkeep

[molson]

A question on Cronin - if he truly was in his bed night 1, does that completely rule him out as a spy? Do people think spies must go out together on a kill, or do they chose someone to send?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Alan T

How did you steal his goggles?

That surprised me too. My understanding with the key could steal items during the day, and check if people are sleeping at night. But I guess I just got lucky with sladana, I looked at night, he wasn't there, so somehow I was allowed to steal the goggles as well.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by molson

A question on Cronin - if he truly was in his bed night 1, does that completely rule him out as a spy? Do people think spies must go out together on a kill, or do they chose someone to send?

No, usually only one person goes out at night. What we know is that Cronin did not kill DaddyTorgo, and according to Ardent did not send in the PM to kill him.

There are multiple wolves, and thats why my trust of Cronin is not so absolute. I also find it odd that Ardent is pretty much ignoring Cronin's vote on him

[Poli]

Originally Posted by molson

A question on Cronin - if he truly was in his bed night 1, does that completely rule him out as a spy? Do people think spies must go out together on a kill, or do they chose someone to send?

I asked a similar question on the first day...before I used the tap. I was told I'd be out of luck, meaning that only the KGB that sent in the night action would be involved...not the whole lot.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Alan T

No, usually only one person goes out at night. What we know is that Cronin did not kill DaddyTorgo, and according to Ardent did not send in the PM to kill him.

There are multiple wolves, and thats why my trust of Cronin is not so absolute. I also find it odd that Ardent is pretty much ignoring Cronin's vote on him

You didn't see my ? post.

I'm not ignoring it, and it's high vis to me.

[beargrowlz]

Originally Posted by molson

Looks like a "safe hit" - someone they knew was an American, but knew probably didn't have any armor.

True, though Cronin has been really riding to get him shot as a spy all game.

That being sad, I have a difficult time believing cronin is KGB given his actions Day 1.

I'm leaning towards one of the two most inactive players - Barkeep or Molly.

[Alan T]

Part of me has the same feeling I had in one game before when I said that I felt Lathum and Blade were playing us and then died the next night. I am getting a weird feeling about ardent and cronin setting up an elaborate setup. I've seen Ardent accused of things before, and he usually doesn't act like this. Cronin has been bothering me for a while now.

[Poli]

I'm on my chill pills, Alan.

[Poli]

Though I will say this? How the heck am I on anyone's question list, including the flippin' negotiator's, after the NEGOTIATOR came and talked to me about loyalties.

[beargrowlz]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Part of me has the same feeling I had in one game before when I said that I felt Lathum and Blade were playing us and then died the next night. I am getting a weird feeling about ardent and cronin setting up an elaborate setup. I've seen Ardent accused of things before, and he usually doesn't act like this. Cronin has been bothering me for a while now.

Can you elaborate more on your feelings about Cronin?

See, the problem I am having is that he's been drawing votes since Day 1 without any reason that i could see - so there's lots of noise there.

[Poli]

Alan, were you attacked the other night when noone died? That was my assumption when nothing happened, and now that CR is dead, it seems likely the KGB were unsuccessful instead of converting.

Eh, maybe.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Though I will say this? How the heck am I on anyone's question list, including the flippin' negotiator's, after the NEGOTIATOR came and talked to me about loyalties.

The negotiator also said that he couldn't tell who was a spy or who wasn't, only whether they were a mecenary or not.

Which makes your point slightly suspcicious.

[Poli]

Meh, whatever. I don't recall that without looking back. What I do know is I've said what's happened and everyone has confirmed that it has happened. Like I'd do that if I was a bad guy.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Like I'd do that if I was a bad guy.

You'd do that if you were a smart bad guy.

Though, I made the same assumption about what saldana meant at first with a recent post, so I won't try to kill you based on that without more.

[Poli]

That's where you're wrong, and you'd likely know that if you'd ever played against me as a wolf. I don't share jack when I'm a wolf/kgb.

[Poli]

I have about 30 more minutes before I'm heading to St. Louis, I don't see me changing my vote. Barkeep has been in here and hasn't commented at all.

It reminds me of the time where barkeep said as a wolf that votes on him don't scare him. At least, I think that's how he said it.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out the next time I'm online. Maybe I'll be alive, maybe I won't.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by saldana

on night 2 i had a chat with ardent enthusiast, we discussed his loyalties, and i was given every indication he was loyal to america.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Though I will say this? How the heck am I on anyone's question list, including the flippin' negotiator's, after the NEGOTIATOR came and talked to me about loyalties.

I've already said. I highly doubt the negotiator would know good vs bad. Same thing applies to me. I don't see a second seer role in this game. The negotiator has admittedly said he had one purpose. That is to find the mercenary. I don't think him visiting either of us says as much about us as it does about him.

Originally Posted by beargrowlz

Can you elaborate more on your feelings about Cronin?

See, the problem I am having is that he's been drawing votes since Day 1 without any reason that i could see - so there's lots of noise there.

I was willing to give Cronin the benefit of the doubt on day 1. Obviously since I saved him with that vote. What bugged me was the way he handled my comments about path on day 2 and day 3. He asked me about all kinds of people but always avoided Path. he didnt say he felt path was good or bad, just didnt talk about him. Even when I said I had the lie detector and was looking for statements from path, he subtly dropped a statement for me to look at Saldana instead. Its obviously just a subtle feeling thing, and if I had more concrete proof, I would have voted him over Chief Rum yesterday.

I can't say I feel worse about Cronin than I do about Barkeep.. and now because of today I feel worse about Ardent too.

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Alan, were you attacked the other night when noone died? That was my assumption when nothing happened, and now that CR is dead, it seems likely the KGB were unsuccessful instead of converting.

Eh, maybe.

Nope, I was not attacked yet this game.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

That doesn't contradict what he said first about not knowing either way. CIA is default, that's what everyone will claim to be. Why would you (or anyone) give him an indication that you were a wolf instead. Obviously if someone he visits is not a merc, they're going to look like CIA.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Originally Posted by saldana

The thing that everyone needs to remember is that I didnt find out if the people i spoke to were spies or not, just that they werent the mercenary.

Its just like the tombstone game. Putting complete trust in a role that gives you information that it was not designed to give you creates an invalid circle of trust.

[Poli]

Then by all means, vote me out and prove yourself wrong. I'm not scared.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by molson

That doesn't contradict what he said first about not knowing either way. CIA is default, that's what everyone will claim to be. Why would you (or anyone) give him an indication that you were a wolf instead. Obviously if someone he visits is not a merc, they're going to look like CIA.

Right. Obviously.

[Poli]

Obviously I haven't been truthful at all and you know that I'm lieing. Obviously.

Obviously. I love that word.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Obviously I haven't been truthful at all and you know that I'm lieing. Obviously.

Obviously. I love that word.

You see.. this is what I would expect after Cronin's vote.

[Alan T]

Vote St.Cronin

I think the one thing Ardent has going for him is he did pass me the body armor. I am really puzzled by some of his moves, but if I had to choose between the two, I'll vote cronin before him because of that alone.

I'm not sure if Saldana kept the armor I sent him or passed it on to someone else.. but I don't think I want to know. Best to keep that quiet probably anyways.

[Poli]

Another thing, you obviously have never played me when I am a wolf...because you'd know that I keep lists of the players, that I take out the most active, that I'm all about the game.

You obviously missed the first day when I voted for barkeep, and he wasn't even in the game. Obviously, I'm a wolf.

[Poli]

I'm out, packing up the laptop and heading to work and STL.

Obviously, good luck fellas.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Another thing, you obviously have never played me when I am a wolf...because you'd know that I keep lists of the players, that I take out the most active, that I'm all about the game.

You obviously missed the first day when I voted for barkeep, and he wasn't even in the game. Obviously, I'm a wolf.

I don't think there are any absolutes when it comes to how someone plays as a wolf. I still find it very odd that you did not react like this earlier.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Right. Obviously.

I think it's obvious, but you're the one trying to tell us it proves your innosence somehow.