The OFFICIAL 2008-09 NHL Thread

[DeToxRox]

Dola .. I think that Bettman would've been better served to let Phaneuf handle the discipline. At least make Avery play, and then go from there.

Now we have to wait until February 3rd.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Well, I dunno that it's right. I mean Goodell is punishing everyone, and Brandon Marshall and Joey Porter have been calling each other gay in the media. I think that is quite a bit worse, and neither was suspended.

And Porter is more notorious inside football then Avery is inside hockey.

Bettman HATES Avery. It's that simple.

Now was the comment classless? Sure. But that is how so many hockey players are, I guess I am just used to it.

While it's hard to draw lines sometimes, I think the difference between Joey Porter and Avery is that Avery went after Phaneuf's girlfriend (not to mention Mike Comrie's and Jarret Stoll's girlfriends as well). Personal attacks on other players are one thing, personal attacks on girlfriends, wives, family, etc. are a slightly different breed.

Also, I'm sure things 100 times worse are said between players on the ice. Avery's past and the whole orchestrated nature of the comments certainly played a role. He sought out the reporters. It was totally staged.

I appreciate what Avery was trying to do (for example, I fully planned to record the game, but didn't once I heard Avery was suspended), but I don't think the NHL is too far off the mark on this one.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Dola .. I think that Bettman would've been better served to let Phaneuf handle the discipline. At least make Avery play, and then go from there.

Now we have to wait until February 3rd.

Well, like Harry Neale once said: "Revenge can be a luscious fruit if allowed to ripen."

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

While it's hard to draw lines sometimes, I think the difference between Joey Porter and Avery is that Avery went after Phaneuf's girlfriend (not to mention Mike Comrie's and Jarret Stoll's girlfriends as well). Personal attacks on other players are one thing, personal attacks on girlfriends, wives, family, etc. are a slightly different breed.

Also, I'm sure things 100 times worse are said between players on the ice. Avery's past and the whole orchestrated nature of the comments certainly played a role. He sought out the reporters. It was totally staged.

I appreciate what Avery was trying to do (for example, I fully planned to record the game, but didn't once I heard Avery was suspended), but I don't think the NHL is too far off the mark on this one.

I understand the suspension .. Just not a fan of it. At least have a hearing before make indefinite. With anyone else I feel like they would've held them out for the night then decided from there.

[MikeVic]

I think past behaviour played a role, and that's totally justifiable.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I think past behaviour played a role, and that's totally justifiable.

Again, I don't disagee, but every time he does something it feels like there is a knee-jerk reaction from the league. Obviously there is a problem with Avery but the NHL could use any publicity they can get, and a cocky punk calling out a Hollywood star who's boyfriend is a beast, and already hates Avery is great.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Dola .. I think that Bettman would've been better served to let Phaneuf handle the discipline. At least make Avery play, and then go from there.

Now we have to wait until February 3rd.

maybe Bettman realized that Phaneuf is a big pussy

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

maybe Bettman realized that Phaneuf is a big pussy

Whoa, I call penalty box for this statement.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Personal attacks on other players are one thing, personal attacks on girlfriends, wives, family, etc. are a slightly different breed.

But he was also going after his own ex('s)? So now that's policeable? I hope none of these guys end up in divorce court.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by bbor

Hurricanes rehire Paul Maurice as coach!!!

WTF? (runs off to check WRAL)

If true, gee, the team has had trouble playing with passion SINCE THEY CAME TO NORTH CAROLINA, and we're going to bring back a coach who couldn't get them to do it to replace another one who couldn't?

Jim Rutherford seems to be admired in hockey circles, but year after year they put out a team that only plays hard in stretches. They played hard for one 6-month stretch and turned it into a Stanley Cup, but that's it. They've been an underachieving team for a long time, and something more fundamental has to change.

Or in other words, I think Maurice and Laviolette are both pretty good coaches, and I don't think either one is the problem here.

[gstelmack]

Wow, yup, it's true.

[DeToxRox]

Carolina needs Tortorella.

Talk about passion. I love that guy.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But he was also going after his own ex('s)? So now that's policeable?

I'd say ther/her status as Phaneuf's (Comrie's, Stoll's) girlfriend(s) trump(s) their/her status as "his own ex('s).

For example, let's say Cuthbert was now dating Brendan Fraser, Rachel Hunter was dating Keifer Sutherland and Hillary Duff was dating Jim Carrey (all Canadian actors) and Avery said:

"I am really happy to be back in Calgary, I love Canada. I just want to comment on how it's become like a common thing in the for actors to fall in love with my sloppy seconds. I don't know what that's about. Enjoy the game tonight."

That would be a very odd and random comment about Avery's ex's, but I don't think it would have led to him being suspended. I think the fact that he went after other players' SOs was, among other things, what made it suspensionable.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

If true, gee, the team has had trouble playing with passion SINCE THEY CAME TO NORTH CAROLINA, and we're going to bring back a coach who couldn't get them to do it to replace another one who couldn't?

We'll take them back up here in Connecticut, thank you very much.

[watravaler]

ESPN - NHL Attendance Leaders - National Hockey League

RNK TEAM AVG
1 Chicago 21,485
2 Montreal 21,273
3 Detroit 19,726
4 Toronto 19,311
5 Philadelphia 19,303
6 Calgary 19,289
7 Ottawa 19,031
8 St. Louis 18,978
9 Vancouver 18,630
10 Minnesota 18,568
11 Buffalo 18,562
12 NY Rangers 18,130
13 Dallas 17,816
14 Washington 17,765
15 San Jose 17,473
16 Edmonton 16,839
17 Anaheim 16,809
18 Pittsburgh 16,780
19 Tampa Bay 16,373
20 Colorado 16,272
21 Boston 16,169
22 Los Angeles 15,358
23 Florida 15,028
24 Carolina 14,843
25 Phoenix 14,703
26 New Jersey 14,668
27 Atlanta 13,988
28 Nashville 13,827
29 Columbus 13,781
30 NY Islanders 13,238


Was Bill Wirtz really the devil? Now it's time to start putting some chinks in Detroit's armor.

Side-Rant: Anyone else hate the way the standing are calculated?

Bring back the Patrick, Smythe, Adams, and Norris...bring back the old version of the playoffs(4 team divisional playoff) and I'll be happy. Minnesota/Detroit/Chicago should be in the same division

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by watravaler

Side-Rant: Anyone else hate the way the standing are calculated?

No, I think it's fantastic that 25 or 26 teams finish over .500 every year. I think it really helps the NHL's credibility.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by Logan

Although I love the guy, I do agree that there's no place for personal attacks that don't have anything to do with hockey. Girlfriends, wives, children should all be off limits from public comments.

How can ANYONE love Sean Avery? The guy is an idiot, and I think he is a borderline mental case.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by watravaler

ESPN - NHL Attendance Leaders - National Hockey League

RNK TEAM AVG
1 Chicago 21,485
2 Montreal 21,273
3 Detroit 19,726
4 Toronto 19,311
5 Philadelphia 19,303
6 Calgary 19,289
7 Ottawa 19,031
8 St. Louis 18,978
9 Vancouver 18,630
10 Minnesota 18,568
11 Buffalo 18,562
12 NY Rangers 18,130
13 Dallas 17,816
14 Washington 17,765
15 San Jose 17,473
16 Edmonton 16,839
17 Anaheim 16,809
18 Pittsburgh 16,780
19 Tampa Bay 16,373
20 Colorado 16,272
21 Boston 16,169
22 Los Angeles 15,358
23 Florida 15,028
24 Carolina 14,843
25 Phoenix 14,703
26 New Jersey 14,668
27 Atlanta 13,988
28 Nashville 13,827
29 Columbus 13,781
30 NY Islanders 13,238


Was Bill Wirtz really the devil? Now it's time to start putting some chinks in Detroit's armor.

Side-Rant: Anyone else hate the way the standing are calculated?

Bring back the Patrick, Smythe, Adams, and Norris...bring back the old version of the playoffs(4 team divisional playoff) and I'll be happy. Minnesota/Detroit/Chicago should be in the same division

Yeah you need Winnipeg in one of those divisions too.

[Fidatelo]

Between this talk of Smythe divisions and ML's obscure retro jersey post I just read, I'm almost sick to my stomach with renewed Jets nostalgia. I'm very concerned that I'll find myself phoning around trying to order a custom Luciano Borsato jersey this weekend.

[MikeVic]

Who was the up-and-coming young stud #40 in the early NHL games? Evgeny Davydov?

[Fidatelo]

Oh how I loved Davydov! I had multiple copies of his rookie cards, I thought I was going to be rich some day.

[Fidatelo]

I don't think he was number 40 though... I'm going to look it up.

[Fidatelo]

Looks like Davydov was #11 and #40, so we are both right!

[Ajaxab]

I'll never forget Davydov getting his head split open by that camera in Edmonton during one of the Jets' epic playoff runs.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I think the fact that he went after other players' SOs was, among other things, what made it suspensionable.

And I'm still flabbergasted that taking a mild and accurate poke at somebody about who their dating is actionable. Seems more like Bettman power tripping than anything else AFAIC.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by samifan24

We'll take them back up here in Connecticut, thank you very much.

playing for the Wolfpack?

He's an idiot. I don't know if it's suspendable, but he's an idiot.

This has probably already been said but, he acts like he was her first....maybe 101st, but not first. Send him back to Vogue and get him out of the NHL.

[johnnyshaka]

Just because it's accurate doesn't mean it needs to be said in front of a gallery of cameras and tape recorders.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Also agree with others, suspend him AFTER the Calgary game. Let Phaneuf chase him around, let Avery turtle. Let that at least happen first.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Also agree with others, suspend him AFTER the Calgary game. Let Phaneuf chase him around, let Avery turtle. Let that at least happen first.

Why?? So Phaneuf can land himself in hot water with Colin Campbell after he opens up Avery's for face for 15 stitches?? Yeah, that makes sense.

Chain Avery and PacMan Jones together at the ankles and let them loose in Vegas with a camera crew following them...leave the NHL (and the NFL) alone.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Why?? So Phaneuf can land himself in hot water with Colin Campbell after he opens up Avery's for face for 15 stitches?? Yeah, that makes sense.

Chain Avery and PacMan Jones together at the ankles and let them loose in Vegas with a camera crew following them...leave the NHL (and the NFL) alone.

It doesn't make sense for Phaneuf or for Calgary as a team. But for everyone else, they'd be rooting for it.

I wonder if they could have given Avery an extra 2 for instigating?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Why?? So Phaneuf can land himself in hot water with Colin Campbell after he opens up Avery's for face for 15 stitches?? Yeah, that makes sense.

seriously, you guys HAVE watched Phaneuf play, right? Are we talking about a brother of his or something?

[johnnyshaka]

Sure, I've seen Phaneuf NOT fight...yer right...but that bastard can hit like the best of them.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

seriously, you guys HAVE watched Phaneuf play, right? Are we talking about a brother of his or something?

I agree with, DD. Phaneuf is big and strong, but he tends to shrink away from this kind of thing. I remember back in the 2007 playoffs when the Wings had Bertuzzi. Just the mere presence of Bertuzzi was enough to make Phanuef all sheepish and quiet.

As entertaining as the game last night might have been if Avery was kept in the line-up (if Phanuef didn't do something it's likely someone on Calgary would have), I am not sure that would have been good for the league. It had the potential to turn into a pretty ugly affair.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Just because it's accurate doesn't mean it needs to be said in front of a gallery of cameras and tape recorders.

Yeah, since that whole "no personality allowed" thing is working out so well for NASCAR these days.

Sorry, but Avery is easily one of the ten most entertaining things about the NHL at this point, it's beyond idiotic of them to do anything to muzzle the guy over something as insignificant as this.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, since that whole "no personality allowed" thing is working out so well for NASCAR these days.

Sorry, but Avery is easily one of the ten most entertaining things about the NHL at this point, it's beyond idiotic of them to do anything to muzzle the guy over something as insignificant as this.

Precisely why he has to go...antics like his take away from the true ten most entertaining things about the NHL.

Flip it over to Jackass or The Real World if you want to watch Avery-like entertainment.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

playing for the Wolfpack?

The Jets fans here can relate.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Precisely why he has to go...antics like his take away from the true ten most entertaining things about the NHL.

Riiiiight.

I'm not sure at this point there are even ten entertaining things left in the league ... and that's coming from a guy who is even willing to follow minor league hockey a good bit closer than the average consumer (i.e. it's not as though I don't have some degree of interest otherwise).

Teams are largely generic, ditto the players, at least Avery has some personality to make him compelling. Even the most skilled/flashiest players are starting to become fairly interchangeable to me at this point.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

As entertaining as the game last night might have been if Avery was kept in the line-up (if Phanuef didn't do something it's likely someone on Calgary would have), I am not sure that would have been good for the league. It had the potential to turn into a pretty ugly affair.

oh come on, you think a guy like Bertuzzi would pull some stupid shit?

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Riiiiight.

I'm not sure at this point there are even ten entertaining things left in the league ... and that's coming from a guy who is even willing to follow minor league hockey a good bit closer than the average consumer (i.e. it's not as though I don't have some degree of interest otherwise).

Teams are largely generic, ditto the players, at least Avery has some personality to make him compelling. Even the most skilled/flashiest players are starting to become fairly interchangeable to me at this point.

Stick to wrestling if you want sports entertainment, and leave hockey alone. You don't have to be a douchebag to be a good quote.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Stick to wrestling if you want sports entertainment, and leave hockey alone.

Long way between full-time SE and having at least a few interesting personalities in a sport. Avery is one of the precious few of the latter in hockey today, a sport who has enough marketing handicaps without trying to make every player as dull as possible.

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, since that whole "no personality allowed" thing is working out so well for NASCAR these days.

Sorry, but Avery is easily one of the ten most entertaining things about the NHL at this point, it's beyond idiotic of them to do anything to muzzle the guy over something as insignificant as this.

You're right. I'm sure we can all have more fun on this forum to if we go insulting the significant others of posters on this board too. There isn't a line that can be crossed at all - is there?

Come on - this guy went up to the reporters, asked the camera guy to turn his camera on, and then said this obviously reheased line - that was pathetic. I don't see how anything like that should be encouraged.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Riiiiight.

I'm not sure at this point there are even ten entertaining things left in the league ... and that's coming from a guy who is even willing to follow minor league hockey a good bit closer than the average consumer (i.e. it's not as though I don't have some degree of interest otherwise).

Teams are largely generic, ditto the players, at least Avery has some personality to make him compelling. Even the most skilled/flashiest players are starting to become fairly interchangeable to me at this point.

Hey, I hear ya, the talent is diluted and the league could stand to fold 6 teams but that doesn't change the fact that Avery, and douches like him, are a drain and a black eye on the league.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Long way between full-time SE and having at least a few interesting personalities in a sport. Avery is one of the precious few of the latter in hockey today, a sport who has enough marketing handicaps without trying to make every player as dull as possible.

Your point would resonate with me more if your wife wasn't such an inbred hick.

Hey check it out guys! I'm cool!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by chrisj

You're right. I'm sure we can all have more fun on this forum to if we go insulting the significant others of posters on this board too. There isn't a line that can be crossed at all - is there?

Is that significant other your ex?

I'm just not seeing the issue here at all. Jokes about that sort of thing aren't exactly anything new, and definitely nothing new in a jockocracy or even just in a male dominated environment. Not even remotely OOB in my opinion nor in my experience.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Your point would resonate with me more if your wife wasn't such an inbred hick. Hey check it out guys! I'm cool!

I'll just hang around & wait for someone else to not get what you were shooting for there. Has reasonable unintentional comedy value if the predictable misunderstanding occurs.

Then again, it's almost certainly completely irrelevant to the situation at hand since the odds of you having dated her in the past are relatively slim.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'll just hang around & wait for someone else to not get what you were shooting for there. Has reasonable unintentional comedy value if the predictable misunderstanding occurs.

Then again, it's almost certainly completely irrelevant to the situation at hand since the odds of you having dated her in the past are relatively slim.

Who said 'past'? I'm dating that ho right now! Uhhhnnn!

Anyways, I'm not surprised that we disagree on this, nor am I surprised that you don't get what I was aiming at.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Anyways, I'm not surprised that we disagree on this, nor am I surprised that you don't get what I was aiming at.

No, I'm pretty sure I got it, I was referring to the likelihood that someone else wouldn't. But what you seem likely to have been aiming for has nothing whatsoever in common with what Avery did. He has a direct connection to the ex's, whereas your example with me/mine is random.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm just not seeing the issue here at all. Jokes about that sort of thing aren't exactly anything new, and definitely nothing new in a jockocracy or even just in a male dominated environment. Not even remotely OOB in my opinion nor in my experience.

You're right, it's a joke and between guys it wouldn't even garner a second thought but when you make that comment in front a dozen media folk with their recording devices pointing right at you, then you're no longer joking around with your buddies...you are making a statement to who knows how many millions of people...most of whom aren't your buddies.

Next time you're in front of a dozen TV cameras I dare you to call one of your male competitors/co-workers (but that person has to have kids) a mofo. I know if I did that I'd be reprimanded but more likely fired...why should Avery be treated any differently?

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

No, I'm pretty sure I got it, I was referring to the likelihood that someone else wouldn't. But what you seem likely to have been aiming for has nothing whatsoever in common with what Avery did. He has a direct connection to the ex's, whereas your example with me/mine is random.

I don't really care that he has a direct connection or not, the statement as it was delivered (like a little PSA) is retarded and uncalled for either way. My point is that both he and I were acting like douchebags trying to get attention.

And as johnny points out above, if I said anything remotely similar at the speaking engagement I'm doing tomorrow, I'd get canned so fast my head would spin.

[RomaGoth]

I have a few comments on all of this, amongst other things.

1. Avery is a moron, always was and always will be. I also believe that he has mental problems, not just because of this incident but because of other things he has done in the past.
2. Yet another reason the Red Wings are the best run sports franchise in all of sports (yes, including the Patriots). The Wings drafted and later dumped Avery. Another good move, as all he is bringing to the NHL, the Dallas Stars, and himself is embarrassment.
3. I noticed in an earlier post discussion of the old NHL. I also miss those days. I remember Davydov and Borsato. What about the great Thomas Steen? He played with a lot of passion in a town that never appreciated him or his team. I have had numerous discussions with my friends about the current state of the NHL. If it was up to me, the NHL would drop around 10-12 teams, put Toronto and Detroit back in the same division, and restore teams like Dallas and Carolina to their former cities. This would help alleviate all of the average players that now play in the NHL, and allow the great players more room to skate and make plays. There are just too many Georges Laraques in the game now, it is ugly some nights.
4. Gary Bettman is an idiot. He has nearly single-handedly destroyed the NHL with all of his ridiculous expansion nonsense (Florida?)(Columbus?). The NHL needs to fire his dumb ass and hire someone who actually cares about the game.
5. Despite all of the above problems with the NHL and hockey in general, it is the greatest sport in the world. Long live the NHL!!