Official 2008-2009 MLB Offseason Thread

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I think this offseason shows that there's, at the very least, a power struggle. The Teixeira deal is probably the most obvious Cashman deal, Sabathia could be, but I can't see Cashman going for Burnett.

How is that evidence of a power struggle? Cashman doesn't want to give up prospects, but who cares about money unless it comes out of his pocket?

If Burnett tanks, Cashman can just hide him on the DL or minor leagues (just like Pavano). I doubt Cashman minds getting the potential of Burnett (especially if it works out).

[Galaxy]

Interesting article on the Yankees from last year:

hxxp://money.cnn.com/2007/08/03/news/companies/yankees.fortune/index.htm

Another article:

hxxp://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/52936/

[Galaxy]

Looks like the Yanks re-signed Wang for an one-year, $5 million deal.

[Jas_lov]

The Yankees could bring back Pettitte for $10 million and they'd still have a lower payroll than last year. They got rid of a lot of dead weight and now they're by far the best team in baseball. Angels are worse, Red Sox are no better, Rays will dissapoint, and the Central sucks. The only thing that can stop the Yankees now are injuries to a few key players.

[JPhillips]

What's so bad about being the Yankees GM. Any other team in baseball would be hosed for years if they had last season's Yankee club, but now they have to be one of the top five teams in the AL with the potential to win the WS. Sure you have to deal with some crap, but what other job allows you to be so consistently competitive?

[Young Drachma]

Moving into that new park, they had to be aggressive and were. Too bad I'm a Jays fan.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

How is that evidence of a power struggle? Cashman doesn't want to give up prospects, but who cares about money unless it comes out of his pocket?

If Burnett tanks, Cashman can just hide him on the DL or minor leagues (just like Pavano). I doubt Cashman minds getting the potential of Burnett (especially if it works out).

Because Cashman has been all about getting Hughes, Kennedy, and Chamberlain in the rotation. Joba is a lock, but Kennedy is on the outside looking in right now, and Hughes will be in the same boat if they resign Pettitte. He's also been trying to maintain some financial flexibility so that they don't end up in a situation similar to a few years ago when they needed Beltran but didn't feel comfortable committing the money to him because the payroll was already out of hand.

Teixeira makes much more sense for the Yankees this offseason than either Sabathia or Burnett. Burnett makes ZERO sense. Sabathia is a defendable move, but the money would have probably been better spent elsewhere.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

What's so bad about being the Yankees GM. Any other team in baseball would be hosed for years if they had last season's Yankee club, but now they have to be one of the top five teams in the AL with the potential to win the WS. Sure you have to deal with some crap, but what other job allows you to be so consistently competitive?

I guess it depends on your personality. Some might not see it as a bad job, but I don't see how it could be considered one of the most prestigious jobs in baseball considering the considering the circumstances you work under.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

What's so bad about being the Yankees GM. Any other team in baseball would be hosed for years if they had last season's Yankee club, but now they have to be one of the top five teams in the AL with the potential to win the WS. Sure you have to deal with some crap, but what other job allows you to be so consistently competitive?

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Because Cashman has been all about getting Hughes, Kennedy, and Chamberlain in the rotation. Joba is a lock, but Kennedy is on the outside looking in right now, and Hughes will be in the same boat if they resign Pettitte. He's also been trying to maintain some financial flexibility so that they don't end up in a situation similar to a few years ago when they needed Beltran but didn't feel comfortable committing the money to him because the payroll was already out of hand.

Teixeira makes much more sense for the Yankees this offseason than either Sabathia or Burnett. Burnett makes ZERO sense. Sabathia is a defendable move, but the money would have probably been better spent elsewhere.

Hey, may the better competition win.

If Hughes or Kennedy is truly better than Burnett, then they'll take that place in the rotation. Seeing how the Yankees handled Pavano and Irabu, they do not let how much money that player is being paid dictate who plays and who does not.

Also, this "financial flexibility" need was before the new Yankee Stadium was built. At the very least, the Yankees are counting on that new coliseum to bring in extra revenue. Further, you've seen evidence above that the overall payroll of the Yankees will not be that much different from the previous few seasons.

Besides, where else was the money going to be spent? Burnett was going to make his money with either the Braves or the Yankees. The money saved by not going with Burnett would not be worth it Burnett actually plays to the level he is being paid.

[DaddyTorgo]

upgrading from Varitek's '08 to an .800 OPS catcher would ultimately be about the same, or possibly better than upgrading from Lowell to Teixeira. The Red Sox can improve offensively simply by getting that catcher. Given that they now don't have $20 million locked up in Teixeira, they should be willing to take on payroll if necessary.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Joba is a lock ...

Can't remember what talking head I caught this afternoon right after the Tex signing but the conversation was that Pettite would eventually be signed (instead of Lowe) and that Joba was headed straight to the bullpen.

Not the consensus?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

They got rid of a lot of dead weight and now they're by far the best team in baseball. Angels are worse, Red Sox are no better, Rays will dissapoint, and the Central sucks. The only thing that can stop the Yankees now are injuries to a few key players.

The 2009 Yankees are going to be as big a preseason WS favorite as the 2008 Detroit Tigers.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Can't remember what talking head I caught this afternoon right after the Tex signing but the conversation was that Pettite would eventually be signed (instead of Lowe) and that Joba was headed straight to the bullpen.

Not the consensus?

Shouldn't be. Pettite is supposed to be the 5th starter. The Yanks rotation looks like this right now (to me): Sabathia, Burnett, Joba, Wang, Hughes/Pettite

[Logan]

I think Wang is going to technically be the #1. And from what I've heard locally, Joba is going back to the pen since they haven't upgraded the area (yet at least).

[Galaril]

So, 40 million over 8 years that is amazing. I am not sure if this was already mentioned before but what I heard some discussion of this morning is that Rudy Guilianna gave the Yankees 1.5 billion for the new stadium and then recently the Yankees have asked the city for anoither 400 million of tax payers money! Talk about bailouts.

[Logan]

Well, Giuliani hasn't been the mayor in 6+ years so I don't know where that came from. And the taxpayer money for the stadium isn't what's being used to build it -- it's tax breaks on bonds that would otherwise be adding to tax revenues. Also, the city will spend money on "infrastructure."

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Logan

Well, Giuliani hasn't been the mayor in 6+ years so I don't know where that came from. And the taxpayer money for the stadium isn't what's being used to build it -- it's tax breaks on bonds that would otherwise be adding to tax revenues. Also, the city will spend money on "infrastructure."

Just repeating what was said on ESPN not saying I have clue if it is true but sure doesn't sound good.

[Logan]

I should've assumed incorrect info came from ESPN .

[Galaxy]

If you read some of the articles posted, it sounds like the Yankees (not sure where it is coming from) are contributing up to $800 million towards the costs.

[Galaxy]

Also, I notice that the Brewers owner has sort of come out for a cap.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

Well, Giuliani hasn't been the mayor in 6+ years so I don't know where that came from. And the taxpayer money for the stadium isn't what's being used to build it -- it's tax breaks on bonds that would otherwise be adding to tax revenues. Also, the city will spend money on "infrastructure."

No idea how accurate it is but I think I heard the discussion Galaril was referring to - that the Yankees/Guiliani entered into a long-term contract that contained a "poison pill", that somehow denying the Yankees this money would open the door for them to leave town.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by molson

No idea how accurate it is but I think I heard the discussion Galaril was referring to - that the Yankees/Guiliani entered into a long-term contract that contained a "poison pill", that somehow denying the Yankees this money would open the door for them to leave town.

Haha... and they would go where? Even a stadium in North Jersey or on Long Island would probably cost them millions a year in revenue.

[ISiddiqui]

Why would a North Jersey stadium cost them millions a year in revenue? The Giants and Jets play in North Jersey and have no designs to move back into the city.

[SirFozzie]

The Mets’ ability to fully capitalize on enhanced stadium revenue may be clouded by Bernard L. Madoff’s suspected theft from the real estate company owned by Fred Wilpon, the Mets’ principal owner. The team has said its financial operations will not be affected. But if the Mets resist signing major free agents they need, the Madoff factor, right or wrong, will be raised as the reason, not good judgment or financial conservatism.

But the Mets (and the Yankees) have something Madoff couldn’t make off with: the ability to deduct their construction debt payments, maintenance and other stadium costs from the revenue they share with other teams. The Yankees have issued $942.5 million in tax-free bonds and the Mets $547 million through the city’s Industrial Development Authority. They could be approved next month by the I.D.A. for $341.2 million more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/24/sp...l?ref=baseball

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

They got rid of a lot of dead weight and now they're by far the best team in baseball. Angels are worse, Red Sox are no better, Rays will dissapoint, and the Central sucks. The only thing that can stop the Yankees now are injuries to a few key players.

Did you forget that this Yankees team finished 10th in runs scored last year and still have a declining Jeter, Posada, and Matsui? The Red Sox didn't need to get any better. They were 6 outs from the World Series last year and really don't have any holes to fill.

The Yankees are better than they were last season right now, but lets not get carried away. They're not a lock for a playoff spot let alone the best team in baseball by far.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah but Atocep - Jas is a Yankee fanatic. blind to reality and reason.

he's probably still laboring under the delusion that Jeter is a gold-glove caliber shortstop

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Why would a North Jersey stadium cost them millions a year in revenue? The Giants and Jets play in North Jersey and have no designs to move back into the city.

Those are teams that play once a week and sell out all their games ahead of time. I don't know if the new stadium reduces capacity enough that the Yankees expect to sell out every game, but if they don't making a stadium harder to get to for a majority of fans* will presumably reduce the walk up crowd. The Red Sox also make a fair chunk of money from things like apparel and merchandising with the huge walkaround crowds in the Landsdowne area, even people who don't have tickets to the game but go to the bars around it.


* I've been to the Meadowlands, so I know what a hassle that is to get to from the city, but I've never been to Bronx stadium, so maybe it is just as out of the way.

[tucker rocky]

Predictions for 2009 MLB season

AL East
Redsox
Yankees(wild card)
Rays
Bluejays
Orioles

AL Central
Whitesox
Twins
Tigers
Indians
Royals

AL West
Angels
A's
Rangers
Mariners

NL East
Phillies
Mets(wild card)
Marlins
Braves
Nationals

NL Central
Brewers
Cardinals
Cubs
Astros
Reds
Pirates

NL West
Dodgers
Giants
Rockies
Padres

World Series

Angels vs Phillies

Phillies win in 7 games
(no rainouts, or other weather related delays)

[molson]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Those are teams that play once a week and sell out all their games ahead of time. I don't know if the new stadium reduces capacity enough that the Yankees expect to sell out every game, but if they don't making a stadium harder to get to for a majority of fans* will presumably reduce the walk up crowd. The Red Sox also make a fair chunk of money from things like apparel and merchandising with the huge walkaround crowds in the Landsdowne area, even people who don't have tickets to the game but go to the bars around it.


* I've been to the Meadowlands, so I know what a hassle that is to get to from the city, but I've never been to Bronx stadium, so maybe it is just as out of the way.

As much as a hassle the Meadowlands is, at least you can drive to it. I don't think there's any reason a NJ/Long Island stadium, designed well with adequate parking, wouldn't sell out every game. Most fans come into the Bronx to see the Yankees from those places anyway, they'd actually be moving closer to their fanbase.

NJ/LI are really just other parts of the NYC metro area. They're no easier/harder to get to than a lot of Queens/Brooklyn/Bronx.

[ISiddiqui]

And Hell, for a North Jersey stadium, you can put it close to an NJ Transit stop and have a decent way to get there over train (they can even have a 'gameday' train to make it easier). Driving to Yankee Stadium is a complete and total pain in the ass.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And Hell, for a North Jersey stadium, you can put it close to an NJ Transit stop and have a decent way to get there over train (they can even have a 'gameday' train to make it easier). Driving to Yankee Stadium is a complete and total pain in the ass.

Having never lived there, I can't speak for the general ease of things with respect togetting to Jersey from New York. But I definitely agree on the "waste to drive to Yankee Stadium". When I went there last summer, it was easy as anything, with the subway running right next to it. No need for cars there, at least if you live in reasonable range of the subway system.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Having never lived there, I can't speak for the general ease of things with respect togetting to Jersey from New York. But I definitely agree on the "waste to drive to Yankee Stadium". When I went there last summer, it was easy as anything, with the subway running right next to it. No need for cars there, at least if you live in reasonable range of the subway system.

That's also true of North Jersey and Long Island - it's just as connected via PATH and LIRR. (but the latter two would have the addition of easier car travel, which is important for some people).

My only point is that the Yankees COULD leave NYC...And that apparently is why they get such ridiculous hand-outs from the city.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

My only point is that the Yankees COULD leave NYC...And that apparently is why they get such ridiculous hand-outs from the city.

Quite true. In fact, George Steinbrenner kept using the threat of a new stadium in North Jersey to get money from the city.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Predictions for 2009 MLB season

AL East
Redsox
Yankees(wild card)
Rays
Bluejays
Orioles

AL Central
Whitesox
Twins
Tigers
Indians
Royals

AL West
Angels
A's
Rangers
Mariners

NL East
Phillies
Mets(wild card)
Marlins
Braves
Nationals

NL Central
Brewers
Cardinals
Cubs
Astros
Reds
Pirates

NL West
Dodgers
Giants
Rockies
Padres

World Series

Angels vs Phillies

Phillies win in 7 games
(no rainouts, or other weather related delays)

Did the D-Backs get shut down?

[dervack]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Predictions for 2009 MLB season



NL Central
Brewers
Cardinals
Cubs
Astros
Reds
Pirates

Sorry, but how do the Brewers, who lost their two best starters from last season and as of yet, do not have a closer, win the Central?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Predictions for 2009 MLB season

AL East
Redsox
Yankees(wild card)
Rays
Bluejays
Orioles

Is that the "Fuck the Yankees" reaction you're expecting from the Red Sox there?

AL Central
Whitesox
Twins
Tigers
Indians
Royals

Think you can probably flip the Tigers and Indians, but okay.

AL West
Angels
A's
Rangers
Mariners

A's could make things awful interesting. They seem to be adding at a time when other teams aren't, and the Angels have a hole at closer, even if they've got guys they think can step in there.

NL East
Phillies
Mets(wild card)
Marlins
Braves
Nationals

Who are the Phillies going to plug in to fill the 40-HR void left by Burrell's bat? Also, the Mets just added a couple pretty key pieces to a bullpen that cost them the division last year. I have a hard time seeing the Phils beating them out this year.

NL Central
Brewers
Cardinals
Cubs
Astros
Reds
Pirates

Yeah, the Cubs are going to return virtually everybody and finish third, while the Brewers are going to lose their #1 and #2 starters and finish first. Right.

NL West
Dodgers
Giants
Rockies
Padres

No D'Backs? Also, while I would love for the Dodgers to repeat, I don't think they will unless they bring a motivated Manny back. I just don't see enough power in that lineup to be able to carry the team if the pitching struggles.

World Series

Angels vs Phillies

Phillies win in 7 games
(no rainouts, or other weather related delays)

Wait...tucker rocky. You're a Phillies fan, if I recall. This makes sense now.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Who are the Phillies going to plug in to fill the 40-HR void left by Burrell's bat? Also, the Mets just added a couple pretty key pieces to a bullpen that cost them the division last year. I have a hard time seeing the Phils beating them out this year.

Ibanez is a pretty suitable replacement for Burrell. If I were a Phils phan, I would have preferred for the club to re-sign Burrell, but his production has been pretty similar to Ibanez's the past few years. And I think I've had this argument here already, but K-Rod is not a significant upgrade over Billy Wagner. Putz is certainly an improvement, but I don't think he'll be the key to the division.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Hammer755

Ibanez is a pretty suitable replacement for Burrell. If I were a Phils phan, I would have preferred for the club to re-sign Burrell, but his production has been pretty similar to Ibanez's the past few years. And I think I've had this argument here already, but K-Rod is not a significant upgrade over Billy Wagner. Putz is certainly an improvement, but I don't think he'll be the key to the division.

It's not that K-Rod is an upgrade over Wagner, per se. It's that he and Putz together strengthen what was an Achilles heel for them. Doesn't mean they'll win the division this time, but at the least I have to think that they're not going to be susceptible to late collapses this go-round.

[tucker rocky]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Did the D-Backs get shut down?

Dodgers
D-Backs
Giants
Padres
Rockies

Originally Posted by dervack

Sorry, but how do the Brewers, who lost their two best starters from last season and as of yet, do not have a closer, win the Central?

The Central could get ugly.
Like a few seasons back when the Padres won the division with a sub-500 record.

=SackAttack;1909846]
1- Is that the "Fuck the Yankees" reaction you're expecting from the Red Sox there?

2 Who are the Phillies going to plug in to fill the 40-HR void left by Burrell's bat? Also, the Mets just added a couple pretty key pieces to a bullpen that cost them the division last year. I have a hard time seeing the Phils beating them out this year.

3 Yeah, the Cubs are going to return virtually everybody and finish third, while the Brewers are going to lose their #1 and #2 starters and finish first. Right.

4 No D'Backs? Also, while I would love for the Dodgers to repeat, I don't think they will unless they bring a motivated Manny back. I just don't see enough power in that lineup to be able to carry the team if the pitching struggles.

Answer to #1-Yankees always try to "buy" a championship. They'll need to learn that championships can be won through the farm system.

Answer to #2-Burrell would've cost more, Ibanez is older though, same numbers(though he'll be batting in NL parks), basically a stop gap while the Phils may have someone in the minors in a few.

Answer to #3-OK, uhh.... Cards, Cubs, Astros, Pirates, Reds, Brewers. In that order.

Answer to #4-Forgot about the D-Backs, oops.

see revised predictions above.

World Series

Angels vs Phillies

Phillies win in 7 games
(no rainouts, or other weather related delays)

Wait...tucker rocky. You're a Phillies fan, if I recall. This makes sense now.

That is the correct assumption.

[ISiddiqui]

How in the world can someone think the Cubs, with just about everyone back are going to completely collapse and die? I think they get at least 90 wins and probably closer to 100 than 90.

[dervack]

They win 97 games in 2008 and now they might not win 81?

[Karlifornia]

Giants sign Randy Johnson to a supposed 1 year $8 million dollar deal. THREE CY YOUNG WINNARS IN THE ROTAYSHUN! WURLD SEEREEZ HEAR WE COME!

[SirFozzie]

Looks like the Sox will sign Brad Penny to a 1 year, 5 Million guaranteed (with 3 million more in incentives) deal. Also looking to reacquire Josh Bard from San Diego, wonder if that means they've moved on Tek.

[Galaxy]

What's the deal with Lowe? I thought the Mets were very close to a deal with him.

[Logan]

Seems like they are haggling over it being a three or four year deal, with the money equal at $15MM per. But with the Sox signing Penny, it looks like their rotation is done and will be out of it, so I would think things just swung in the Mets' favor big time in terms of both years and dollars.

Of course, it's possible that if his asking price changes from 4/60 to, say, 3/42, more teams could come into the picture.

I think a deal gets done, and in other news, apparently Oli Perez's price has come down too and the Mets might be able to bring him back even with adding Lowe.

[Logan]

Just heard that the Angels and Fuentes agreed to a deal.

I thought that closer situation was being handled in-house?

[samifan24]

Indians acquire Mark DeRosa from the Cubs for three minor leaguers.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Logan

Just heard that the Angels and Fuentes agreed to a deal.

I thought that closer situation was being handled in-house?

As far as Proven Closers (TM) go, that was pretty cheap: "Fuentes will $8.5 million for 2009 and $9 million for 2010, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney. The contract includes a $9 million vesting option for 2011, based on games finished." Then again, as I said with KRod's contract- everything is cheap this year relative to year's past, unless you're the Yankees, and 2nd tier guys are going to get hit hardest.

SI

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

Just heard that the Angels and Fuentes agreed to a deal.

I thought that closer situation was being handled in-house?

From what I have heard, it still will be. Fuentes isn't being handed the closer job, but just becoming another option, along with Shields, Arredondo, Jepsen and possibly Escobar when his rehab is over. Sounds like bullpen by committee (but at least it's all good options).