Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: the whole "Kurt Angle's surprise" thing

I might stop short of a prediction but ... Undertaker's brother-in-law (a musician) just social mediaed live from what looks like the front row of Raw.

Last time he did that was the last time we saw 'Taker.

#JusSayin

[General Mike]

I bet it's Dixie Carter. Cue the "You deserve it" chants

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, what the hell is with the camera work & the cuts every 2-3 seconds?

This is hazardous to people prone to seizures & shit. Good God, I haven't seen this many cuts since the last time I tried to watch a long-form Iron Maiden video (no cut lasts more than two seconds, by (idiotic) design).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, what the hell is with the camera work & the cuts every 2-3 seconds?

This is hazardous to people prone to seizures & shit. Good God, I haven't seen this many cuts since the last time I tried to watch a long-form Iron Maiden video (no cut lasts more than two seconds, by (idiotic) design).

Kevin Dunn still hasn't figured out this stuff 30 years later.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Kevin Dunn still hasn't figured out this stuff 30 years later.

Weirdly, it was worse during the women's match than in the stuff the followed.

Different director? Just crap they do during the women's match?

[JonInMiddleGA]

from WWECreativeHumor:

"We kid. We kid."

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Weirdly, it was worse during the women's match than in the stuff the followed.

Different director? Just crap they do during the women's match?

The cuts are to hide stuff not hitting in HD. That's probably why there is more cuts in women's matches.


Angle reveal sucked.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Angle reveal sucked.

Yes. Yes it did.

My son pointed out that Gable tweeted immediately afterwards


Chad Gable‏
Verified account @WWEGable 11m11 minutes ago

Ummmmm..... what?

[RainMaker]

It sucks on two fronts. The reveal sucks and doesn't really seem to have a storyline going forward. It also breaks up a good tag team that Jordan sort of needs while he gets better in the ring.

[RainMaker]

Am I the only one here who likes Braun Strowman? Like I get the smaller guys who can do a bunch of cool moves but there is something satisfying about a giant man who just throws guys around.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It sucks on two fronts. The reveal sucks and doesn't really seem to have a storyline going forward. It also breaks up a good tag team that Jordan sort of needs while he gets better in the ring.

They've been building up to this for a long time. I fully expect a dedicated storyline from the writers for this.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Am I the only one here who likes Braun Strowman? Like I get the smaller guys who can do a bunch of cool moves but there is something satisfying about a giant man who just throws guys around.

I don't particularly like him, but the way he tosses guys is impressive.

Though the way Big Show manhandled Cass last night might have been even more eye opening to me. (just the physical ease with which he moved him around)

[Scarecrow]

Shane McMahon rescued from helicopter that crash landed into ocean

[Neon_Chaos]

That man can take a bump from ANYTHING.

[molson]

Not even top 5 of the craziest Shane McMahon bumps.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Where do you watch it? Do they have a website/app to pay for?

Wrestling on Demand on Kodi also.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Idle thought re: NJPW.

Sanada vs Ibushi would be some damned good stuff right now.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Am I the only one here who likes Braun Strowman? Like I get the smaller guys who can do a bunch of cool moves but there is something satisfying about a giant man who just throws guys around.

Like him much more than the 5'8" flip brigade superstars. It helps that they've actually pushed him really well. He's also improved a ton in a relatively short time and should be a good monster for at least a decade.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Currently watching the third night (aka Thursday late/Friday dawn) G1 show.

One thing I'll say for the booking thus far is that they've done a pretty good job of using the non-group stage tag matches to tell various stories. Little things but useful in the big picture.

Also, credit to Tama Tonga for a darned good promo at the G1 press conference the other day. One of the smallest names in the tournament, he took an opportunity to use that in his (faux) shoot and got more mileage from the chance with solid work.

[CrescentMoonie]

The Tama Tonga promo was okay. Mediocre worker needed a shakeup and sneaky smart move by NJPW to use it to hint at taking the full G1 overseas next year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

The Tama Tonga promo was okay. Mediocre worker needed a shakeup and sneaky smart move by NJPW to use it to hint at taking the full G1 overseas next year.

What I liked was that a below-the-fold guy got a chance to run with something.
He delivered it fine, so it created a purpose out of largely nothing.

That's better than average production for the situation is my thinking on it.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

What I liked was that a below-the-fold guy got a chance to run with something.
He delivered it fine, so it created a purpose out of largely nothing.

That's better than average production for the situation is my thinking on it.

I like what they did, for sure, even if Tonga was only okay at doing it. It hints at the G1 special being a precursor to the full G1 happening outside of Japan soon and it comes from someone who was probably around the 50th person on the roster to get it out there while having solid reasoning behind it from his character's perspective. Maybe Tonga actually takes the ball and run with it, but even if he doesn't this allowed them to plant some seeds for future global expansion without officially saying it.

Whoever booked it deserves a ton of credit.

It's like WWE getting across the first stage of a major change to their business through someone like Apollo Crews.

[General Mike]

Rest in Peace Daryl

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Rest in Peace Daryl

I've not seen, but I'm aware.

And I am livid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

G1 Climax question in case anybody knows:

Hypothetical: what if Omega & Okada tie for the group win but draw vs each other? That tie is usually broken by head-to-head result but what if there's no result to settle it?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Rusev/Cena making me wonder if Punjabi Prison Match won't be a highlight.

This has been atrocious.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

G1 Climax question in case anybody knows:

Hypothetical: what if Omega & Okada tie for the group win but draw vs each other? That tie is usually broken by head-to-head result but what if there's no result to settle it?

The only time they did something like that, that I could find was 2004, when they had the top 3 in each group advance to a bracket style tournament. 6 wrestlers were tied in the A block with 8 points, with 4 advancing. Nakamura and Chono were determined to be #3 and #4 and had a play-in match.

Similar thing happened in 2002 as well. So, I'm guessing they'd do a play-in match.

[General Mike]

Missed 2/3rds of the Battleground PPV. Sounds like I didn't miss much.

Edit: The third I saw hasn't been too hot either.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Missed 2/3rds of the Battleground PPV. Sounds like I didn't miss much.

Edit: The third I saw hasn't been too hot either.

Tag team title opener probably the highlight.
Not sure the women's match - uninteresting to me as it was - might not have been #2.

AJ/Owens was as flat as possible, worked at a snail's pace.

[General Mike]

The Great Khali in 2017?

[JonInMiddleGA]

And, against all odds, that clusterfuck went from bad to worse.

[General Mike]

I was actually amazed that Khali could climb the cage, after hearing previous reports about his health status.

[CrescentMoonie]

It's almost impressive how far SD has dropped since Vince realized it was good and started killing it. If they had just not beaten Raw in the ratings he probably would have left it alone.

I enjoyed AJ/Owens particularly because it wasn't at the idiotic pace that many matches are today, but it was still 3rd at best on the card. I'll take the women over the tag match, but both were pretty good.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Tag team title opener probably the highlight.
Not sure the women's match - uninteresting to me as it was - might not have been #2.

AJ/Owens was as flat as possible, worked at a snail's pace.

The Fashion Files was probably #2 for me. As much as I love the idea of 20ish PPVs a year it's just too much when it's the same feud for 4 months.

[RainMaker]

I love AJ and Owens but they don't seem to do their best work when paired together.

The Punjabi Prison match seems like a terrible match for people to watch in person. How can you tell what is going on?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I love AJ and Owens but they don't seem to do their best work when paired together

Speculation today has been that the finish was actually botched.

[JonInMiddleGA]

On a side note, last night Owens/AJ beautifully highlights the need for more leeway to call matches in the ring/on the fly.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Speculation today has been that the finish was actually botched.

Not sure how as AJ clearly rolled his right shoulder on the mat and propped his leg up to do it. Unless AJ didn't hear the 1st count would be the only way.

[Suicane75]

Meanwhile in Japan, they're putting on AMAZING shows every night.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Meanwhile in Japan, they're putting on AMAZING shows every night.

Well, at least some pretty damned entertaining ones. Not sure I'd call the whole of G1 night 3 (4? I've lost count but I mean the most recent one) "amazing", but it was largely entertaining even as the weakest of the past week.

Loving the work Yuji Nagata is doing so far, I'm actually emotionally engaged with those outcomes. Been a stack of months since I've had that response to anything in the U.S. wrestling scene.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, at least some pretty damned entertaining ones. Not sure I'd call the whole of G1 night 3 (4? I've lost count but I mean the most recent one) "amazing", but it was largely entertaining even as the weakest of the past week.

Loving the work Yuji Nagata is doing so far, I'm actually emotionally engaged with those outcomes. Been a stack of months since I've had that response to anything in the U.S. wrestling scene.

The Tanahashi match was awesome with Tana going subtle heel. Just a remarkably worked and booked tournament so far.

My buddy had the perfect summary of the two companies right now while we were watching Battleground. He said "I can be in the mood to watch wrestling and be bored with a WWE PPV within an hour, meanwhile I could have no interest in watching wrestling at the moment, but turn on G1 just to catch up, and 2 hours later I'm totally into it and having a blast".

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

The Tanahashi match was awesome with Tana going subtle heel. Just a remarkably worked and booked tournament so far.

My buddy had the perfect summary of the two companies right now while we were watching Battleground. He said "I can be in the mood to watch wrestling and be bored with a WWE PPV within an hour, meanwhile I could have no interest in watching wrestling at the moment, but turn on G1 just to catch up, and 2 hours later I'm totally into it and having a blast".

The WWE tries so hard to come up with all kinds of storylines, and soap opera stuff. Sometime in between all the story segments, there are matches.

In NJPW, the matches ARE the story. That's why we tune in, yet the storylines are no less interesting. The matches start the stories, and are the reason that there are stories.

It's extremely similar to the wrestling you grew up with when you were a kid. If you loved the WWF and were a Hulk Hogan fan, then you're probably a WWE fan today. If you loved the NWA and chose Ric Flair, then NJPW probably is the wrestling for you.

[CrescentMoonie]

The thing that's helping NJPW the most is that they're taking time to let stories play out. I actually don't like their style (or that of ROH) but it works when you build people up to logical spots, throw in just enough twists along the way to keep it from being too predictable, and finish it off with 5-6 big events during the year instead of 20 PPVs.

I would still kill for a promotion that books logically, that mixes modern move sets with a more 80s pace and no kicking out of finishers, and that keeps itself to 4-6 PPVs per year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

The WWE tries so hard to come up with all kinds of storylines, and soap opera stuff. Sometime in between all the story segments, there are matches.

In NJPW, the matches ARE the story. That's why we tune in, yet the storylines are no less interesting. The matches start the stories, and are the reason that there are stories.

It's extremely similar to the wrestling you grew up with when you were a kid. If you loved the WWF and were a Hulk Hogan fan, then you're probably a WWE fan today. If you loved the NWA and chose Ric Flair, then NJPW probably is the wrestling for you.

Great example of this was the last show, which didn't have English commentary (and my Japanese is limited to car brands & a few gaming references) ... yet we knew what was happening and why it was happening by simply watching the action in/around the ring.

[Suicane75]

I think the saving grace for WWE is familiarity. I really think a lot of people over 30 watch because they've always watched it. I hate the product but I still keep up with it, I have the network because it's cheap and even though we get more enjoyment out of goofing on the product than watching it, my friend and I still get together to watch the PPV's. Although what used to be a group of 5 has whittled down to 2 1/2.

They're so big and have access to so much talent that they almost can't help but have some good shit every now and again, but the good stuff seems to come in spite of their booking than because of it.

Last nights G1 was the first night that I wouldn't call great. Omega/Yano was fun in a goofy way and Juice/Suzuki was good from a storytelling perspective. Okada/Sanada was a bit of a letdown for the first half but it was great once they got going.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I think the saving grace for WWE is familiarity. I really think a lot of people over 30 watch because they've always watched it. I hate the product but I still keep up with it, I have the network because it's cheap and even though we get more enjoyment out of goofing on the product than watching it, my friend and I still get together to watch the PPV's. Although what used to be a group of 5 has whittled down to 2 1/2.

They're so big and have access to so much talent that they almost can't help but have some good shit every now and again, but the good stuff seems to come in spite of their booking than because of it.

Last nights G1 was the first night that I wouldn't call great. Omega/Yano was fun in a goofy way and Juice/Suzuki was good from a storytelling perspective. Okada/Sanada was a bit of a letdown for the first half but it was great once they got going.

I think this is where I'm at. I watch Raw and Smackdown, mostly out of habit, I watch all the network specials, and Battleground was the first that I missed the lion's share of since before the Network started. I wish I had time to get invested in New Japan besides the AXS show, but it's not feasible right now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by General Mike

I wish I had time to get invested in New Japan besides the AXS show, but it's not feasible right now.

It is a pretty major time investment when they're in full swing.

We're going to catch up on the one show we're behind tonight. But I think Sunday (since we'd gone out for something else on Saturday) we watched around 10 hours of wrestling counting WWE.

[General Mike]

Giving Cena vs Nakamura away on Smackdown next week doesn't seem prudent, but I guess the business model has changed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hatin' life on the building they ran in for that round (the U.S. pre-dawn Tuesday one). I'm tired, blank on the name, but it's horrible for television. I mean, don't televise from there again kind of bad.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Giving Cena vs Nakamura away on Smackdown next week doesn't seem prudent, but I guess the business model has changed.

It's the TNA strategy I guess. Sounds like they must be getting pressure about the TV ratings. They've been using the PPVs to setup TV shows like TNA did. Even saw them push a story about how Facebook might be interested in buying their TV rights when the contract with USA is done.