Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Amazing to see this all play out. Who would have ever thought that this situation would evolve to the point where a school would consider cancelling a game rather than having it televised on a TV network?

All That and a Bag of Mail: How Big of a Disaster is the Longhorn Network? : Outkick The Coverage

With news that Texas Tech might cancel a game to avoid appearing on the Longhorn Network, how big of a disaster is the LHN?

It's a Titanic like disaster.

ESPN got stuck holding the bag, but it could just as easily have been Fox. ESPN won the bidding and lost the network war.

I mean, I can't even think of any business decision that ESPN has ever made that has played out this poorly. Can y'all?

Maybe the mobile phone business. Remember ESPN Mobile? That failure cost a ton of money, but at least then you could blame being ahead of the market's desire. I mean, people did want to use their phones to keep tabs on sports and their lives, the technology just wasn't good enough yet. So ESPN Mobile was too forward thinking. But the LHN?

No one wants the network. Now or ever. Hell, Texas even had to pay $70,000 to get the network on in its own dorm rooms last year. The games suck, the revenue is pathetic, yet the LHN is continuing to create instability across the entire Big 12 and by extension across all of college football.

If Texas had just gone independent I think things would have been smoother for the rest of college football.

Texas A&M, Colorado, Nebraska, and Missouri are all in different conferences because of it. So are TCU and West Virginia. By extension so are SMU, San Diego State, Boise State, Pitt, Syracuse, basically it all spirals back to the LHN and the instability of Texas in the Big 12.

In historical terms, the Longhorn Network is the football equivalent of the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. One set off World War I, the other set off realignment.

ESPN is so profitable in other arenas that the LHN failure is just a rounding error on its books, but this is still an amazing swing and miss.

At what point do they just roll the LHN programming into the existing ESPN structure and give up on distribution? That has to happen soon, right?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by article

One set off World War I, the other set off realignment.

So this network was the reason the ACC grabbed BC, VT, and Miami?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think you are generally right and I'm just sharing what I am hearing. I don't think it is absurd to think that there was contact, just as there certainly was between Arkansas and the Big 12, WVU and the SEC, Missouri/Rutgers/Pitt/etc. and the Big Ten, etc.

The ACC supposedly voted on WVU last time around and they didn't have the votes (supposedly the Carolina block all voted against them) and probably never will. WVU and Notre Dame don't particularly have any type of relationship, so I'm sure we aren't a team that they would choose to come along for 16 and I don't think we'd be interested with the direction we are moving in (Texas-centric coaching staffs and administrators).

But that does raise a very good point, that is if Notre Dame said "we aren't going to join unless you go to 16" Swofford no doubt would put out an open invitation to every BCS and FBS school on the eastern seabord.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Amazing to see this all play out. Who would have ever thought that this situation would evolve to the point where a school would consider cancelling a game rather than having it televised on a TV network?

Seems overblown by one team refusing to do it. It's not like the rest of the conference can follow suit. At some point somebody has to play them and it's going to be on the LHN. They all knew this going in so protesting it now seems rather poor.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

But that does raise a very good point, that is if Notre Dame said "we aren't going to join unless you go to 16" Swofford no doubt would put out an open invitation to every BCS and FBS school on the eastern seabord.

I'm not really sure who gives you much bang for your buck, though. I'm sure Penn State would be the biggest fish, but they aren't leaving the Big Ten and no one is leaving the ACC. Who else is there? UConn, Rutgers, WVU, Temple, UCF or USF, Louisville?

I'd guess that it would be a toss-up between taking a basketball power (Louisville or UConn, although UConn doesn't seem to be too popular with the ACC) or getting Rutgers (gives you a nice, populated state in New Jersey plus some impact in NYC and Philly, and ND could probably swing a deal to play a game in New York (Rutgers or Syracuse) each year.

[Toddzilla]

Seriously, in a package with Notre Dame? The ACC offers EVERYONE. UConn, Rutgers, ODU, Delaware, VCU, Coastal Carolina, Mars Hill, you name it.

[cartman]

As I've said before, those few viewers that the LHN has must be the most influential people in the world, if the network is causing that much pain and hand-wringing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of chatter in B12-land that expansion is dead for this year.

[digamma]

Playoff official, beginning in 2014. Semis rotate between six bowl sites, championship game to the highest bidder. Teams selected by committee.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by digamma

Teams selected by committee.

What could go wrong with this?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

What could go wrong with this?

It's an improvement over having the coaches (or in many cases their aides) vote people into the BCS championship.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I excited for this new playoff format.

Definitely a step in the right direction. I don't think I'd want to have a larger field than four. At some point when you make the playoff field too big it eliminates the importance of regular season games. With a field of four, I think you still have that.

Sure, it elevates the importance of two bowl games (plus the final) over the others, but the former system elevated one bowl game above all others. So long as the match-ups are interesting and the games are good, the other bowls will be fine.

[Atocep]

I don't see the setup announced lasting very long. The semi final games are going to be very tough to sell to fans. How many fans are going to go to be willing to pay for the tickets, make hotel and travel arrangements to see the semi final games, and then do the same for the final?

You'll likely see these games moved to the home team's stadium within a couple of years and then a entirely new set of issues arise when a school out in the middle of nowhere with a 35k seat stadium qualifies.

[britrock88]

Still holding out hope for traditional bowl configurations and a +1.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I don't see the setup announced lasting very long. The semi final games are going to be very tough to sell to fans. How many fans are going to go to be willing to pay for the tickets, make hotel and travel arrangements to see the semi final games, and then do the same for the final?

You'll likely see these games moved to the home team's stadium within a couple of years and then a entirely new set of issues arise when a school out in the middle of nowhere with a 35k seat stadium qualifies.

On the ride home I heard the opinion that this is essentially (with the bidding on venue) turning into a second Super Bowl. How many SB attendees are fans of the participants vs those there for an event? It's possible that some fans could be priced out of the final, so they'll go to the semis (and, there's a chance the team won't move on). Or if they're that devoted they'll just pony up for both.

edit: And I kinda doubt the 35k scenario will happen. Boise St could barely even sniff a BCS game that mattered, they or a similar team isn't going to be installed as one of the top two by a committee.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Still holding out hope for traditional bowl configurations and a +1.

That's kind of what this sounded like to me, except with weaker bowl ties.

If I've read it right, 6 bowls will rotate the semi-finals, with higher bidder getting the championship as a non-bowl game.

That's awfully close, in terms of venues, to what we've had for the past few years ... right?

(Or am I reading this wrong, and the semi-finals will be _in addition to_ the usual Sugar Bowl, Orange Bowl, etc? I'm reading it as those bowl games will be 1v4 and 2v3 in their given year)

[britrock88]

I think you're reading it right. 2 of the Rose/Cotton/Orange/Sugar/Fiesta/??? will rotate the semis. The final will be a "seventh" game hosted by the highest bidder.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I don't see the setup announced lasting very long. The semi final games are going to be very tough to sell to fans. How many fans are going to go to be willing to pay for the tickets, make hotel and travel arrangements to see the semi final games, and then do the same for the final?

You'll likely see these games moved to the home team's stadium within a couple of years and then a entirely new set of issues arise when a school out in the middle of nowhere with a 35k seat stadium qualifies.

Yeah, it seems silly from a fan's perspective. I think a neutral field championship is fine, but not for the other rounds. Still think an 8, 12, or 16 team playoff with home field for the top seeds sounds like the best option.

[cartman]

2009 would have been an interesting year to pick 4 teams. You had 5 undefeated teams (Alabama, Texas, TCU, Cincinnati, Boise State) plus Florida, with one loss to Alabama in the SEC Championship Game.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It's an improvement over having the coaches (or in many cases their aides) vote people into the BCS championship.

You realize the coaches were only one factor in the whole formula?

[bronconick]

The interesting complaints will come from the bowl committees who get the semifinals, because I can't imagine coaches are going to want to put up with back to back weeks of pomp and circumstance and choose instead to fly in late in the week for the semis.

[MacroGuru]

Anyone else feel like this decision takes away from the game? I don't know if it's because I am a fan of BYU or the fact I think it's going to be more corrupt than the BCS.

I don't know the cynic in me sees this not going right and CFB for the "mid majors" not being as important.

I don't know...it's just not appealing to me...and I think it's because it's the 4 team playoff scenario...I don't know, I guess I am just bleh about it.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by cartman

2009 would have been an interesting year to pick 4 teams. You had 5 undefeated teams (Alabama, Texas, TCU, Cincinnati, Boise State) plus Florida, with one loss to Alabama in the SEC Championship Game.

Well, Florida lost the SEC Championship, so they shouldn't be in.

Which won't stop them from putting them in anyway, like this past season. My personal opinion is that when you can't have ALL conference champs plus some wildcards, you shouldn't have ANY wildcards. The teams have to have won their conference to make it to these playoffs. But instead, they'll be picking the teams that will draw the biggest crowd and have some sort of arguable claim to be in.

[BillJasper]

It's time to just ditch the bowl games altogether. Does anyone really care about these anymore?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You realize the coaches were only one factor in the whole formula?

Absolutely. But given some of the votes we've seen out of these coaches (most of whom do not watch many other teams or don't even do the vote themselves), it's great that they're now out of the picture and a committee is making those decisions.

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Anyone else feel like this decision takes away from the game? I don't know if it's because I am a fan of BYU or the fact I think it's going to be more corrupt than the BCS.

I don't know the cynic in me sees this not going right and CFB for the "mid majors" not being as important.

I don't know...it's just not appealing to me...and I think it's because it's the 4 team playoff scenario...I don't know, I guess I am just bleh about it.

The focus if you're a mid-major is that this is a step that will eventually lead to mid-majors becoming relevant. The chances for your team making a championship just went up with this change. Given that it's likely a step towards a 8 or 16-team playoff, I would think that's a step in a better direction than what we had before.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Well, Florida lost the SEC Championship, so they shouldn't be in.

Which won't stop them from putting them in anyway, like this past season. My personal opinion is that when you can't have ALL conference champs plus some wildcards, you shouldn't have ANY wildcards. The teams have to have won their conference to make it to these playoffs. But instead, they'll be picking the teams that will draw the biggest crowd and have some sort of arguable claim to be in.

I agree. I think this new model is flawed and I'm disappointed, but I hope the selection committee proves me wrong.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I agree. I think this new model is flawed and I'm disappointed, but I hope the selection committee proves me wrong.

They are already working on formulas that will allow four SEC teams to compete for the championship!

[digamma]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

It's time to just ditch the bowl games altogether. Does anyone really care about these anymore?

I think they are a ton of fun. Maybe too many of them now, but if you've ever been to one, I think you'd agree it's a great experience.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Absolutely. But given some of the votes we've seen out of these coaches (most of whom do not watch many other teams or don't even do the vote themselves), it's great that they're now out of the picture and a committee is making those decisions.

If you lessen the amount of people who are making a decision, the bias is more easily pronounced.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

If you lessen the amount of people who are making a decision, the bias is more easily pronounced.

AND easier to identify.

[timmynausea]

As far as the semifinal games moving away from the bowl sites and to campuses, the Big 10 wanted that originally, and the SEC fought it, saying it'd be unfair to have Southern kids playing in a super cold climate in January.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

As far as the semifinal games moving away from the bowl sites and to campuses, the Big 10 wanted that originally, and the SEC fought it, saying it'd be unfair to have Southern kids playing in a super cold climate in January.

So the SEC will no longer be inviting northern teams down to play during August?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

AND easier to identify.

What does it matter if its a closed off selection committee?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

As far as the semifinal games moving away from the bowl sites and to campuses, the Big 10 wanted that originally, and the SEC fought it, saying it'd be unfair to have Southern kids playing in a super cold climate in January.

Wah. What happens when those same kids get drafted by Green Bay and New England, etc.?

Its the coaches that dont want to play against Wisky or Iowa or Michigan at their places in January. The SEC coaches would get a taste of their own medicine.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Wah. What happens when those same kids get drafted by Green Bay and New England, etc.?

Its the coaches that dont want to play against Wisky or Iowa or Michigan at their places in January. The SEC coaches would get a taste of their own medicine.

I think the current bowls are in locations like New Orleans, Florida, California, and Texas is because people like to have a vacation, lots of things to do, and nice weather to go along with their football game. I am sure that Iowa City is not on the radar for a national title game due to the fact that there is nothing going on there and not that teams are scared to travel to Iowa.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Does anyone really care about these anymore?

Abso-fucking-lutely. Bowl games are a blast. Honestly, I'd rather just go back to the arrangements prior to the BCS, but that train left the station a long time ago...

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Abso-fucking-lutely. Bowl games are a blast. Honestly, I'd rather just go back to the arrangements prior to the BCS, but that train left the station a long time ago...

+1

I love college bowl games. I enjoy watching teams from different conferences play against each other. Sure, some are duds, but some turn out to be great games.

[RendeR]

Lets just eliminate the mid major issue altogether.

realign entirely. 8 conferences, 8 teams each

top 2 finishers in each conference get seeded by record into a 16 team playofff for the national title.

I gives a rats ass where they play the games. Just get the settup right and the rest handles itself.


EDIT: yes this means we cut the top level College Football series down to 64 teams. period. Let the hangers on and the wannabes play at a lower level with their own playoff setup. There are far too many shitty ass teams claiming to be Division I schools. No I don't give a frick about basketball or other sports in relation to this change. Either you go with the program if you are selected to one of the 8 conferences or you play in the lower one and suck it up.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Lets just eliminate the mid major issue altogether.

realign entirely. 8 conferences, 8 teams each

top 2 finishers in each conference get seeded by record into a 16 team playofff for the national title.

I gives a rats ass where they play the games. Just get the settup right and the rest handles itself.


EDIT: yes this means we cut the top level College Football series down to 64 teams. period. Let the hangers on and the wannabes play at a lower level with their own playoff setup. There are far too many shitty ass teams claiming to be Division I schools. No I don't give a frick about basketball or other sports in relation to this change. Either you go with the program if you are selected to one of the 8 conferences or you play in the lower one and suck it up.

Uh.... No.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Uh.... No.

great reaction, got a good reason why? or do you like watching the so called best teams schedule cream puffs for half a season instead of playing games that matter?

[RendeR]

For example, SUNY Albany and the University of buffalo do not belong in Div I football. like...Ever.

[tarcone]

I dont want the B1G to go to 8 teams. The B1G isnt just a football conference. It is a research conference, as well as, a basketball conference and a baseball conference and a wrestling conference, etc.
College just isnt all about football.

[General Mike]

Done with college football. I have better things to waste my time with.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

+1

I love college bowl games. I enjoy watching teams from different conferences play against each other. Sure, some are duds, but some turn out to be great games.

This can't be done without public institutions giving millions of dollars to third party organizations largely run by scumbags who turn around and pay themselves a million a year to run one football game and bribe presidents and athletic directors with hookers and blow?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RendeR

great reaction, got a good reason why? or do you like watching the so called best teams schedule cream puffs for half a season instead of playing games that matter?

There's the part you don't seem to quite be grasping: at football schools every game matters.

The amount of discussion prior to, say, UGA vs Vandy is very similar to the week before UGA vs Florida, just minus the hatred.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oh, btw ... let the hunt begin

Chick-fil-A Bowl plans to bid for semis, national title game - ESPN

[cartman]

I wonder why they think they would get it vs. the Sugar Bowl? I doubt that Atlanta would get two playoff games in the same building.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

There's the part you don't seem to quite be grasping: at football schools every game matters.

The amount of discussion prior to, say, UGA vs Vandy is very similar to the week before UGA vs Florida, just minus the hatred.

Yeah, but what of Buffalo, Florida Atlantic, and Georgia Southern? I get that these games are a hoot to go to, and they make bank for the school. But from a relevance standpoint, they're on par with a big outdoor concert.

So they matter in the sense that they're events. But I can't accept that they matter from a football standpoint (yeah, radio can still parse it for how future starters fare I guess, or how the kicker looked going 7-9 on xp, or....)

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh, btw ... let the hunt begin

Chick-fil-A Bowl plans to bid for semis, national title game - ESPN

Motor City Bowl is planning to put a bid in for the title game as well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

I wonder why they think they would get it vs. the Sugar Bowl? I doubt that Atlanta would get two playoff games in the same building.

Umm ... huh?

They (the event formerly known as the Peach Bowl) are going to try to get in the six bowl rotation for semi-final matchups.

They (presumably the city technically) will be bidding to host the NCG.

It's easy enough to have them not have a final & semi-final in the same year.

I imagine a good portion of the eventual winning NCG bidders will be places that are also part of the semi-final site rotation. LA/Pasadena, Miami, and New Orleans all seem likely candidates to me.