Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[molson]

What would be the U.S. equivalent of Great Kabuki v. Dory Funk Jr. in 2017?

Dory Funk Jr. & Hiro Saito vs Masanobu Fuchi & Great Kabuki - YouTube

[CrescentMoonie]

Dory Funk Jr vs Terry Funk?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Nice. Now the big question. Were his eyes bloodshot?

#KingOfBros

[JonInMiddleGA]

Give or take, 24 hours til another Wrestle Kingdom.
Hard to believe, how a year goes by.

I don't think this one can live up to the last one honestly, but I don't figure it'll be bad by any means.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Give or take, 24 hours til another Wrestle Kingdom.
Hard to believe, how a year goes by.

I don't think this one can live up to the last one honestly, but I don't figure it'll be bad by any means.

You watching live?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

You watching live?

Yeah, the kid has planned his whole week around it, so I'll play along. Work is slow atm, so I can sleep in a bit after it ends around dawn or so.

*his week got less complicated by waiting too long and having NXT taping in Atlanta Thursday night sell out w/out actually getting himself a ticket. Then again, the $40 price was probably a stretch for value in both our opinions. NXT will tape here against 2x in Feb, but he's not in town for either :/

[JonInMiddleGA]

Spoiler free match ratings for WrestleKingdom. These were my live takes, maaaaaybe subject to change a quarter* either way. Best I can tell, I'm 0.25 to 0.50 lower than what I saw on social media

Bucks vs R3K ... 3.5*
6 man gauntlet ... 2.75*
Ibushi-Cody ... 3.25*
KES vs Evil/Sanada ... 3.125* (yep, I did that)
Suzuki v Goto ... 3.5*
4-way juniors ... 3.75* (0.25 deduction for booking)
Tanahashi v Switchblade ... 3*
Jericho v Omega ... 4.75* (gets bonus 0.25 for the booking/scripting)
Okada v Naito ... 5.00* (yes, I would have gone higher if I thought it was deserving)

After 6 hours and change, I'm pretty frustrated by the upper card booking overall, pleased by the workers effort, unhappy that perhaps they've reached the point of not knowing what to do. I have less enthusiasm for everything from now til G1 than I had before the show started & that's not where you oughta be dammit.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Spoiler free match ratings for WrestleKingdom. These were my live takes, maaaaaybe subject to change a quarter* either way. Best I can tell, I'm 0.25 to 0.50 lower than what I saw on social media

Bucks vs R3K ... 3.5*
6 man gauntlet ... 2.75*
Ibushi-Cody ... 3.25*
KES vs Evil/Sanada ... 3.125* (yep, I did that)
Suzuki v Goto ... 3.5*
4-way juniors ... 3.75* (0.25 deduction for booking)
Tanahashi v Switchblade ... 3*
Jericho v Omega ... 4.75* (gets bonus 0.25 for the booking/scripting)
Okada v Naito ... 5.00* (yes, I would have gone higher if I thought it was deserving)

After 6 hours and change, I'm pretty frustrated by the upper card booking overall, pleased by the workers effort, unhappy that perhaps they've reached the point of not knowing what to do. I have less enthusiasm for everything from now til G1 than I had before the show started & that's not where you oughta be dammit.

Meaning the wrong person won the main event? It feels very WWEish to let Okada retain right now even if it seems like they did it to have Omega take if from Okada. Naito will never be hotter and they screwed it up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Meaning the wrong person won the main event? It feels very WWEish to let Okada retain right now even if it seems like they did it to have Omega take if from Okada. Naito will never be hotter and they screwed it up.

I was trying to be spoiler-free but, uh ... yeah.

A billion times yeah.

*and that's not the slightest knock on Okada, who has several more reigns in him afaic ... but the time & place for this one to end was right there. You're asking a lot of fans to stick with Naito without a payoff, and that leaves me to wonder if this amounted to a serious slight.

[JonInMiddleGA]

To be absolutely clear: I have no significant criticism of any of the workers last night. Even the pre-show annual rumble of a random motley crew was well done. (I don't count recognizing that a few guys have slowed down physically as "criticism" {coughTanahashicough} that's just reality)

Everybody brought their work boots, laced 'em up & put on a show.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I was trying to be spoiler-free but, uh ... yeah.

A billion times yeah.

*and that's not the slightest knock on Okada, who has several more reigns in him afaic ... but the time & place for this one to end was right there. You're asking a lot of fans to stick with Naito without a payoff, and that leaves me to wonder if this amounted to a serious slight.

I blame my displeasure for the spoiler. I really think Omega getting the Jericho match screwed up the long term plans but maybe it didn't with Omega having the US title. Sticking with my original answer of they blew it here before I talk myself into being okay with Okada having the monster year he had so it makes sense.

LOLOkadaWins.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I blame my displeasure for the spoiler. I really think Omega getting the Jericho match screwed up the long term plans but maybe it didn't with Omega having the US title. Sticking with my original answer of they blew it here before I talk myself into being okay with Okada having the monster year he had so it makes sense. LOLOkadaWins.

I largely kept thinking of what I've heard great wrestling minds say about knowing when it's time to take a match home. That you react to the feedback you're getting & if it means you don't get in all your stuff but the timing is right, then go to the finish.

That's where the IWGP title picture was going into last night, there was never going to be a better moment to give the fans the payoff & let Naito have his victory. You're not going to get him more over with another month/3 months/12 months, there's nowhere to go but down in terms of that build.

You can, however, overextend Okada's run at the top & make it less useful to put the belt back on him someday. He's not at Rrrrrrrroman Rrrrrreigns hate or anything, fans are still certainly plenty warm to him but every day you drag this reign out makes it less appealing for him to get it back or keep it for any length down the road.

There's also the matter of where to go from here. Back to Omega? Damn guys, we just did this twice, is the next big thing really going to have to be round three, without any interruption? Drag Tanahashi back into the IWGP picture (ugh)? (I'm fine with him working regularly but there aren't even many 4* matches left in the guy, if any. He's closer to being an occasional attraction than he is to being Okada/Omega/Naito in the ring at this point). You could feed Okada the irregular challengers that deserve a title match -- Juice, Magabe, Ishii -- but talk about lack of anticipation or drama. I have no interest in seeing Jericho go around with any of the other guys 'cause basically he provided the one match style he has left. He delivered it well but I don't believe you can do much else with him with any of the other guys now.

You could maybe do something with Ibushi & Okada, then go Omega, then back to Okada & then Naito (or even vice versa I suppose) but to get there requires some other jumps too.

Another issue IMO is that they pretty much have one main event belt more than I can care about. Either retire the IC or combine it if you insist on having a US title. One of those has to become more midcard than main, leaving the Openweight to be the get-your-first-title option.

Maybe the HW tag division will regain some meaning in 2018, last night as least gave some reason to hope it might occasionally have a purpose.

[murrayyyyy]

I figured Ibushi is how they are going to go with the victory over Cody.

Hell, I'm not sure Omega stays as his contract is up at the end of the month. He's got all the power right now and part of him has to look at AJ/Finn and think of getting over here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Hell, I'm not sure Omega stays as his contract is up at the end of the month. He's got all the power right now and part of him has to look at AJ/Finn and think of getting over here.

I'd be shocked at that honestly. He has to be aware of the incredibly low odds of him not being mishandled there.

[Suicane75]

I was underwhelmed by the show by and large. I honestly think my second favorite match behind the main event was Cody/Ibushi. Best Cody match ever IMO.

I'm with Jon on the booking, though not as much the main event. I think they can make Naito work as the challenger by maybe making his character more serious in the build to the next match whenever it happens.

I'm more blase about the undercard and where guys are slotted. Ishii might as well have not been on the show, the Juniors are just mix and match at this point. I want real feuds, singles matches. It'd also be nice if there were more than two Junior Tag teams at any given point.

The whole thing felt very much like a WWE style, let's get everyone on the show kind of deal and that hampered my enjoyment of it.

I'm not giving up and I have my hopes high that NYD can revive some of my interest but of the 4 Dome shows I've watched live, this far and away my least favorite.

[murrayyyyy]

So this is what happens when you bring a knife to a gun fight... (hinting at NY Dash reaction)

Wonder if this leads to the great color factions that worked so well in the past.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

So this is what happens when you bring a knife to a gun fight... (hinting at NY Dash reaction)

Wonder if this leads to the great color factions that worked so well in the past.

Watchign tonight, just got through that segment.

The problem I see here is, well, we remember how that ended up. And I already internally called certain people "the B-team" as it was.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, finished NYDash.

Do. Not. Like. the ending. Cause the "next" thing after this feels obvious a.f. and I don't like how that sets up the current thing to go.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And tonight (today? time zones are confusing), Jay White joins a faction in NJPW.

Ummm ... either I'm smoking something stronger than Pall Malls or Gedo is smoking some serious shit.

[RainMaker]

I haven't been watching much wrestling but AJ Styles is still the best wrestler in the world in my opinion. Every match I see him in is incredible. He can make anyone look good.

[Toddzilla]

So is Austin Aries looking to become a modern day Ultimo Dragon, walking around with 8 belts?

WSW Champion
Defiant Champion
IPW:UK World Championship
Impact Global Champion

he's 1/2 way there

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I haven't been watching much wrestling but AJ Styles is still the best wrestler in the world in my opinion. Every match I see him in is incredible. He can make anyone look good.

Young(er) AJ was almost certainly the best in the world in his prime. Today he's been passed by at least 2 or 3 people.

That does NOT, however, mean he's chopped liver by any stretch of the imagination.

[Toddzilla]

I just spent 3 hours down the rabbit hole watching Showbuckle's channel on YouTube. If you want a gutshot of New Japan, this is your hook up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I just spent 3 hours down the rabbit hole watching Showbuckle's channel on YouTube. If you want a gutshot of New Japan, this is your hook up.

I think that's the guy who did the fantastic history of Naito's journey to WK12. If so, yeah, he's capable of some top notch stuff.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I think that's the guy who did the fantastic history of Naito's journey to WK12. If so, yeah, he's capable of some top notch stuff.

It is, and that's the video that I started with.

[miami_fan]

Paige Reportedly 'Done' as in-Ring WWE Performer Due to Injury | Bleacher Report

[AlexB]

Yeah, the video of Paige after the kick to the back is not good at all

[CU Tiger]

The videos of her pre exile are very good though

[bulletsponge]

Yep, she did her best work then

[PilotMan]

I liked her, it's too bad. But she's done some good work outside the ring too.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Yeah, the video of Paige after the kick to the back is not good at all

What a dumb spot for someone coming off a serious neck injury. Especially at a house show.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What a dumb spot for someone coming off a serious neck injury. Especially at a house show.

For it to be a dumb spot, she'd have to agree to it / be in on it.

There's considerable thought that she wasn't expecting it, certainly at least not to the extent it was delivered.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pete Dunne‏Verified account
@PeteDunneYxB

IWGP Jr. champion vs WWE UK champion happened tonight in Milton Keynes in a venue with a max capacity of 170 people. What a bizarre time to be a wrestling fan

edit to add: separately, Will Ospreay pointed out that it was the first meeting of an IWGP champ & a WWE champ since Muta vs Hogan ... which took place before either he or Dunne was born.

[molson]

Enzo fired by the WWE after rape allegations.

At first, the allegations seemed just to be coming from a crazy person on twitter (who once did a fake pregnancy "prank" on social media for some reason), but there is a police report out there and pending police investigation.

So the company completely skipped over the suspension phase outlined in its conduct policy. Either they learned something bad, they know charges are coming and don't want to be seen as waffling on rape, or they're just tired of the guy and he was on thin ice anyway (he was already dressing in the arena hallways because he was banned from the locker room for various attitude-related issues). Edit: Also, a police report was apparently filed in October and the investigation has been pending since that time - if Enzo didn't make the company aware of that investigation, that could be grounds for a firing too.

[RainMaker]

I'm guessing it's a mix of him being on thin ice and the recent metoo movement stuff going on. They'll be promoting the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania in the next few months heavily and probably don't want to be asked about it in public. Plus Enzo isn't a good wrestler and could always come back if he's cleared.

[RainMaker]

I haven't been watching much but did tune in for the Raw 25 show. It was lackluster in my opinion. The current product is predictable and boring. And there is only so many times you can bring out some attitude era wrestler to wave and have it mean anything.

The Stone Cold stuff was good though.

[PilotMan]

Just reupped my sub for RR through WM. I wonder what I missed?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Just reupped my sub for RR through WM. I wonder what I missed?

Oh dude it's crazy now. Brock Lesnar is champion, Roma Reigns is getting a huge push as the next big thing, and there's all this drama involving McMahons as authority figures. They really took things in a new direction, you might have trouble keeping up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

from NJPW, reports that Kojima has a torn ACL. At 47, that's a tough comeback road.

He doesn't have a ton left in the tank, I mean let's be honest about it. But I enjoy his presence in the preshows & whatnot.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Night 1 in Sapporo for NJPW New Beginnings series was pretty solid.

A nice twist and surprise finish in one place, a decided heelish behavior by a face in another place, some good work on the whole.

Not sure if night 2 (which starts at 1am eastern due to an afternoon start in Japan) can hold up against it simply because almost the entire undercard is a repeat from the night before aside from shuffles for different mains.

[murrayyyyy]

Not sure RR can top that. Will uncle dave give it 5 stars without any Tokyo Dome being located in Philly. And you just knew it wasn't over after the match.

Is he a mens version of bayley or dbrian?

[Suicane75]

Best match I've seen since Ishii in Long Beach or The G1.

[JonInMiddleGA]

well NJPW NB night 2 didn't match the wrestling of night 1 but they sure as hell found a way to make twitter explode

I had it open while watching, #njnbg went from not top ten to #2 in the world in about 2 mins flat.

[cartman]

Finally a trailer has been released for the HBO documentary on Andre the Giant.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

well NJPW NB night 2 didn't match the wrestling of night 1 but they sure as hell found a way to make twitter explode

I had it open while watching, #njnbg went from not top ten to #2 in the world in about 2 mins flat.

Seldom have so many tears been shed

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Seldom have so many tears been shed

2nd night in a row that people were crying in the audience I believe.

[dubb93]

Men’s Rumble on early. Stinks to me like there may not be a popular winner.

[dubb93]

I could not have been more wrong. AJ vs. Nakamura at Wrestlemania. Can’t wait.

[dubb93]

Wonder if that means Rhonda is actually here? Trying to think why the men’s Rumble would go early. Probably wrong again.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I could not have been more wrong. AJ vs. Nakamura at Wrestlemania. Can’t wait.

That was a pleasant surprise. Although we all know the main event will still be Brock vs. douchebag (ie. Roman Reigns).

I'm constantly astounded as how WWE continuously presents a product where the fans take a steaming dump over it, and they still keep coming back for more.