Werewolf LXXVI - The Werewolf Draft! Game over, see last pages for details - Page 15

hoopsguy · 06-25-2008, 01:53 PM

Awesome.

Poli · 06-25-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

Thats it, I quit! No excuse for such mistakes.

just kidding

st.cronin · 06-25-2008, 02:01 PM

I'll count the unvote:

9 - DaddyTorgo - Lathum (339), LoneStarGirl (538), PackerFanatic (556), mccollins (605), claphamsa (946), SnDvls (659), Mrs. Schmidty (676), Alan T (686), saldana (691)
6 - Lathum - DaddyTorgo (250), KWhit (278), Barkeep (283), RendeR (294), Danny (431), Telle (650)
1 - Mrs. Schmidty - EagleFan (362)
1 - EagleFan - Schmidty (394)
1 - OlieGirl - Passacaglia (270)
1 - saldana - Chief Rum (594)

no vote: GoldenEagle, oliegirl

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliegirl

UNVOTE MRS SCHMIDTY
VOTE HOOPSGUY

I'm still not convinced Mrs S isn't a wolf, but Hoops calling me out when I had a vote on Mrs S reeks of the exact same mistake that Alan made in the last game and he was a wolf. Once bitten, twice shy...

I'm assuming you meant to vote for DaddyTorgo here.. and my calling you out last game wasn't really a mistake.. but that's a conversation for another time

DaddyTorgo · 06-25-2008, 02:02 PM

olie - i got you confused with LSG....my bad. same XX chromosomes

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

olie - i got you confused with LSG....my bad. same XX chromosomes

It's ok.. she doesn't have much room to talk since she got you confused with Hoopsguy

oliegirl · 06-25-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

olie - i got you confused with LSG....my bad. same XX chromosomes

Well, we are even then b/c I got you confused with Hoops, which I do all the freaking time!

I have the same problem with Critch/Cringer/Crim

VOTE DADDYTORGO

RendeR · 06-25-2008, 02:07 PM

Looks like this is pretty well set as it is. Going to be very interesting if DT turns out to be a good guy. Going to be looking very closely at those who started the move to DT as they then apear to have saved Lathum.

I'm not going to bother moving my vote at this point. doesn't seem to look like it will matter...

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:08 PM

Looks like something along the lines of 5 votes in a row on DT.. quite a run that I don't like the feel of.. Right now I'm feeling about the same regarding DT and Lathum, both of whom have either revealed or threatened to reveal in a way that just seems to help the wolves more than us..

Unvote DaddyTorgo
Vote Lathum

DaddyTorgo · 06-25-2008, 02:08 PM

it's okay oliegirl - i'll still always love you

DaddyTorgo · 06-25-2008, 02:08 PM

it's not set yet render. there's still hope for me.

saldana · 06-25-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

Looks like something along the lines of 5 votes in a row on DT.. quite a run that I don't like the feel of.. Right now I'm feeling about the same regarding DT and Lathum, both of whom have either revealed or threatened to reveal in a way that just seems to help the wolves more than us..

Unvote DaddyTorgo
Vote Lathum

alan, do you really think that all the wolves would make the same move within one page of one another...i think it more likely you are seeing voting based on a days worth of posts as opposed to votes based on a couple hours and only a few peoples thoughts.

GoldenEagle · 06-25-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

Looks like something along the lines of 5 votes in a row on DT.. quite a run that I don't like the feel of.. Right now I'm feeling about the same regarding DT and Lathum, both of whom have either revealed or threatened to reveal in a way that just seems to help the wolves more than us..

Unvote DaddyTorgo
Vote Lathum

This is a very interesting switch. How many times have you changed your vote now? In #326, you voted for saldana, in #686 you switched to Daddy Torgo and now you are voting for Lathum because there has been a run on him. Curious voting pattern.

Aren't you suppose to be doing some sort of reveal as well?

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

alan, do you really think that all the wolves would make the same move within one page of one another...i think it more likely you are seeing voting based on a days worth of posts as opposed to votes based on a couple hours and only a few peoples thoughts.

Then it wouldn't really hurt much to keep it close either way would it?

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

This is a very interesting switch. How many times have you changed your vote now? In #326, you voted for saldana, in #686 you switched to Daddy Torgo and now you are voting for Lathum because there has been a run on him. Curious voting pattern.

Aren't you suppose to be doing some sort of reveal as well?

I could change it again and vote for you instead, but I don't think it would have much traction!

I like where my vote is currently (at least for the next 5 minutes).

Lathum · 06-25-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

both of whom have either revealed or threatened to reveal in a way that just seems to help the wolves more than us..

can you elaborate on exactly how my reveal helps the wolves?

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

can you elaborate on exactly how my reveal helps the wolves?

I already covered it previously.I would go back and dig up the posts from the last time I was asked, but I'm being lazy today.

Summary notes though is once again there was no reason for someone who was going to be around this morning to reveal a little less than a day before the deadline if you're a role that often is concerned that once the wolves know who you are your life is short lived.

A reveal that early feels more a part of a plan than anything else to try to see what subtle reactions you might get from others that might clue you off on hints.. but primarily in a game like this it feels more like a calculated wolf play since with 2 seers, no other real seer is going to come out to oppose you, they just as likely might just assume you are the other one opposite of them.

I already said a few times that I didn't like how or when you revealed, and I also don't like the way DT has played his reveal.. and right now both feel somewhat fake to me.

Barkeep49 · 06-25-2008, 02:29 PM

Has DT fully revealed or just threatened to do so?

PackerFanatic · 06-25-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I already covered it previously.I would go back and dig up the posts from the last time I was asked, but I'm being lazy today.

Summary notes though is once again there was no reason for someone who was going to be around this morning to reveal a little less than a day before the deadline if you're a role that often is concerned that once the wolves know who you are your life is short lived.

A reveal that early feels more a part of a plan than anything else to try to see what subtle reactions you might get from others that might clue you off on hints.. but primarily in a game like this it feels more like a calculated wolf play since with 2 seers, no other real seer is going to come out to oppose you, they just as likely might just assume you are the other one opposite of them.

I already said a few times that I didn't like how or when you revealed, and I also don't like the way DT has played his reveal.. and right now both feel somewhat fake to me.

Did DT reveal, or are you just talking about how he has been talking ABOUT revealing?

PackerFanatic · 06-25-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Has DT fully revealed or just threatened to do so?

Creepy, BK - really creepy.

Telle · 06-25-2008, 02:30 PM

I haven't seen a reveal yet.

Lathum · 06-25-2008, 02:31 PM

and I said I revealed early because

1. It thought there would be more votes on me by morning and it would be harder to turn hings around

2. I had a dentist apointment today and didn't know how much I would be around

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

Did DT reveal, or are you just talking about how he has been talking ABOUT revealing?

Just about how he had been hinting about it to start the game, was called out on that by a few people .. he cooled it off and then once he got heat later he threatened to reveal, and then came out with some lame response... then when pressed on that he asked if he should reveal...

Yeah something about that just felt forced... at this point if he isn't a wolf, the wolves already had their eyes on him for at some point to target if he hasn't gotten himself lynched... but feels more likely a wolf who initially was setting up for a later fake reveal that got called out on it too early.

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

and I said I revealed early because

1. It thought there would be more votes on me by morning and it would be harder to turn hings around

2. I had a dentist apointment today and didn't know how much I would be around

The first of which several people disagreed with you upon, as we all have seen there are quite a few people around between noon and 3pm for these mid-afternoon games who can move their vote if need be.

GoldenEagle · 06-25-2008, 02:34 PM

DaddyTorgo has been all over the place in this game. He has been talking about everything from Carson Palmer to his job in real life. He has also been accusing just about everyone in the game of being a wolf:

#198: Questions if Barkeep was picked
#230: Brings up Lathum based on Kwhit's theory
#293:He mentions SnDevils as a wolf candidate
#341: In this post, he mentions me as a "nasty wolf" and also mentions saldana
#379: Suggests Render and Lathum could be creating friction as wolves

The funny thing is, he is stopped this practice once his name has been brought up. In fact, he could have maybe swung some of his votes to Mrs.
Schmidty who at the time was a viable candidate to be lynched. But he went out of his way to defend her (post 654).

I am not convinced DT is a wolf. I think Mrs. Schmidty is the best choice at this time. But I am tacking my vote on to DT.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

Lathum · 06-25-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

The first of which several people disagreed with you upon, as we all have seen there are quite a few people around between noon and 3pm for these mid-afternoon games who can move their vote if need be.

but I wasn't going to be around between 12:00-3:00!

DaddyTorgo · 06-25-2008, 02:38 PM

of course i've been all over the place. that's my MO early in games to try to stir up some activity. and why move to Mrs. S when i feel it's more likely lathum is a wolf, and i'm 100% convinced he's the right lynch candidate anyways?

Passacaglia · 06-25-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

Just about how he had been hinting about it to start the game, was called out on that by a few people .. he cooled it off and then once he got heat later he threatened to reveal, and then came out with some lame response... then when pressed on that he asked if he should reveal...

Yeah something about that just felt forced... at this point if he isn't a wolf, the wolves already had their eyes on him for at some point to target if he hasn't gotten himself lynched... but feels more likely a wolf who initially was setting up for a later fake reveal that got called out on it too early.

I know you're lazy, but can you point me to where he hinted about it to start the game? Lathum said the same thing about DT, but when I asked him to explain what he meant, I wasn't satisfied with his answer. Or are you just thinking he hinted about it based on Lathum's say-so?

DaddyTorgo · 06-25-2008, 02:38 PM

GE - not convinced i'm a wolf or even the best candidate and yet you're voting for me anyways?

Telle · 06-25-2008, 02:39 PM

Well DT, it's getting down to the wire. You have a three vote lead. Do you actually have a reveal to make?

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

but I wasn't going to be around between 12:00-3:00!

You were around this morning. Even if you hadn't gotten back by 3 a reveal this morning would have been plenty of time prior to the deadline with plenty of people around who could have moved their votes today.

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I know you're lazy, but can you point me to where he hinted about it to start the game? Lathum said the same thing about DT, but when I asked him to explain what he meant, I wasn't satisfied with his answer. Or are you just thinking he hinted about it based on Lathum's say-so?

Primarily was talking about DaddyTorgo's posts that initially were in response to me that he very clearly singled out his desire to work out things that could benefit the seer/fake seer to do their role better.

By itself not really a big deal and I would have probably ignored it moreso.. but considering he 1) Did something similar as a wolf before to fake reveal.. and 2) later on did his reveal threats then dropped them then asked again later about revealing .. it just brought back up his original comments in a different light.

If DT is not a wolf and I was a wolf, I definitely would have taken notice of his comments the entire day and gone for him as a night target if he hadn't drawn much heat today.. His comments today seemed more interested in making sure everyone knew he had a role without committing to it.

Lathum · 06-25-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

You were around this morning. Even if you hadn't gotten back by 3 a reveal this morning would have been plenty of time prior to the deadline with plenty of people around who could have moved their votes today.

Alan, I think it based on the dynamics of the game that it's important for me to be around to discuss my reveal.

st.cronin · 06-25-2008, 02:45 PM

Roughly 15 minutes to deadline:

10 - DaddyTorgo - Lathum (339), LoneStarGirl (538), PackerFanatic (556), mccollins (605), claphamsa (946), SnDvls (659), Mrs. Schmidty (676), saldana (691), oliegirl (707), GoldenEagle (725)
7 - Lathum - DaddyTorgo (250), KWhit (278), Barkeep (283), RendeR (294), Danny (431), Telle (650), Alan T (709)
1 - Mrs. Schmidty - EagleFan (362)
1 - EagleFan - Schmidty (394)
1 - OlieGirl - Passacaglia (270)
1 - saldana - Chief Rum (594)

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Alan, I think it based on the dynamics of the game that it's important for me to be around to discuss my reveal.

Fair enough I guess, but your discussing of your reveal hasn't been that convincing to me so far.

DaddyTorgo · 06-25-2008, 02:46 PM

omg...i never hinted that i was the damn seer!!!

just because i was talking about optimal seer strategy now that makes me the seer? that's pretty nebulous.

Passacaglia · 06-25-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

omg...i never hinted that i was the damn seer!!!

just because i was talking about optimal seer strategy now that makes me the seer? that's pretty nebulous.

I guess you missed when Lathum thought you were hinting about being the seer because you said "seer/fake seer" then "seer" later in the same post.

Barkeep49 · 06-25-2008, 02:48 PM

If this vote were close I'd probably switch to DT. As it seems like he's going to get it anyway...

DaddyTorgo · 06-25-2008, 02:48 PM

i'd really rather not reveal

*sigh*

Lathum · 06-25-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Either of those two ways, yes we are down 1 villager, but since we are likely to lynch a villager on D1 anyways, getting rid of someone with the ability to confuse and disorient us (whether on purpose or not) is not that large a negative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

of course i've been all over the place. that's my MO early in games to try to stir up some activity.

DT, I think it is funny that you say it is a good thing to get rid of someone that has the ability to confuse us, yet your MO is to stir up activity day one, which also creates confusion.

DaddyTorgo · 06-25-2008, 02:48 PM

yeah but that's a pretty weak "hint"

DaddyTorgo · 06-25-2008, 02:49 PM

i dropped a nice juicy hint to my role earlier. guess i have nothing to lose now though. Just means I'm going to be dancing with the wolves all game for as long as I survive trying to out-think when they target me versus when I can protect myself.

I'm the bodyguard okay?

DaddyTorgo · 06-25-2008, 02:49 PM

GoldenEagle · 06-25-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

GE - not convinced i'm a wolf or even the best candidate and yet you're voting for me anyways?

Yes. It is the dynamics of this game. In my opinion, villagers should at most vote for only two people a day. That would be ideal.

Passacaglia · 06-25-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

If this vote were close I'd probably switch to DT. As it seems like he's going to get it anyway...

Not necessarily.

UNVOTE OLIEGIRL
VOTE LATHUM

Lathum · 06-25-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

Fair enough I guess, but your discussing of your reveal hasn't been that convincing to me so far.

day 1 startements like this make me laugh and piss me off a little.

How exactly can I be more convincing with no voting records, etc...?

Barkeep49 · 06-25-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Yes. It is the dynamics of this game. In my opinion, villagers should at most vote for only two people a day. That would be ideal.

I think this becomes more true after we get the cunning wolf. As it is they have complete kill freedom with the cunning wolf.

Alan T · 06-25-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

day 1 startements like this make me laugh and piss me off a little.

How exactly can I be more convincing with no voting records, etc...?

You could have started out the game with a post that had the word "see" in it 10 times.

that is a joke btw

Passacaglia · 06-25-2008, 02:51 PM

I'm thinking we're villager/villager here, with a lot of emotion catching us off-guard. I think a tie and no lynch is the best option.

KWhit · 06-25-2008, 02:51 PM

I'm happy with the top two candidates and either one is a solid pick today. I'm leaving my vote on Lathum as iI think it's the best choice considering optimal draft strategy, but I don't trust DT as far as I can throw him.

"And with your bad knee, Ed, you shouldn't be throwing anybody."

06-25-2008, 02:01 PM	#703
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I'll count the unvote: 9 - DaddyTorgo - Lathum (339), LoneStarGirl (538), PackerFanatic (556), mccollins (605), claphamsa (946), SnDvls (659), Mrs. Schmidty (676), Alan T (686), saldana (691) 6 - Lathum - DaddyTorgo (250), KWhit (278), Barkeep (283), RendeR (294), Danny (431), Telle (650) 1 - Mrs. Schmidty - EagleFan (362) 1 - EagleFan - Schmidty (394) 1 - OlieGirl - Passacaglia (270) 1 - saldana - Chief Rum (594) no vote: GoldenEagle, oliegirl __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-25-2008, 02:02 PM	#705
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	olie - i got you confused with LSG....my bad. same XX chromosomes __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

06-25-2008, 02:07 PM	#708
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Looks like this is pretty well set as it is. Going to be very interesting if DT turns out to be a good guy. Going to be looking very closely at those who started the move to DT as they then apear to have saved Lathum. I'm not going to bother moving my vote at this point. doesn't seem to look like it will matter... __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

06-25-2008, 02:08 PM	#710
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	it's okay oliegirl - i'll still always love you __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

06-25-2008, 02:08 PM	#711
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	it's not set yet render. there's still hope for me. __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

06-25-2008, 01:53 PM	#701
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Awesome.

06-25-2008, 02:08 PM	#709
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Looks like something along the lines of 5 votes in a row on DT.. quite a run that I don't like the feel of.. Right now I'm feeling about the same regarding DT and Lathum, both of whom have either revealed or threatened to reveal in a way that just seems to help the wolves more than us.. Unvote DaddyTorgo Vote Lathum

06-25-2008, 02:29 PM	#718
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Has DT fully revealed or just threatened to do so?

06-25-2008, 02:30 PM	#721
Telle College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY	I haven't seen a reveal yet.

06-25-2008, 02:31 PM	#722
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	and I said I revealed early because 1. It thought there would be more votes on me by morning and it would be harder to turn hings around 2. I had a dentist apointment today and didn't know how much I would be around

06-25-2008, 02:34 PM	#725
GoldenEagle Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Little Rock, AR	DaddyTorgo has been all over the place in this game. He has been talking about everything from Carson Palmer to his job in real life. He has also been accusing just about everyone in the game of being a wolf: #198: Questions if Barkeep was picked #230: Brings up Lathum based on Kwhit's theory #293:He mentions SnDevils as a wolf candidate #341: In this post, he mentions me as a "nasty wolf" and also mentions saldana #379: Suggests Render and Lathum could be creating friction as wolves The funny thing is, he is stopped this practice once his name has been brought up. In fact, he could have maybe swung some of his votes to Mrs. Schmidty who at the time was a viable candidate to be lynched. But he went out of his way to defend her (post 654). I am not convinced DT is a wolf. I think Mrs. Schmidty is the best choice at this time. But I am tacking my vote on to DT. VOTE DADDYTORGO __________________ Xbox 360 Gamer Tag: GoldenEagle014

06-25-2008, 02:38 PM	#727
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	of course i've been all over the place. that's my MO early in games to try to stir up some activity. and why move to Mrs. S when i feel it's more likely lathum is a wolf, and i'm 100% convinced he's the right lynch candidate anyways? __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

06-25-2008, 02:38 PM	#729
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	GE - not convinced i'm a wolf or even the best candidate and yet you're voting for me anyways? __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

06-25-2008, 02:39 PM	#730
Telle College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY	Well DT, it's getting down to the wire. You have a three vote lead. Do you actually have a reveal to make?

06-25-2008, 02:45 PM	#734
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Roughly 15 minutes to deadline: 10 - DaddyTorgo - Lathum (339), LoneStarGirl (538), PackerFanatic (556), mccollins (605), claphamsa (946), SnDvls (659), Mrs. Schmidty (676), saldana (691), oliegirl (707), GoldenEagle (725) 7 - Lathum - DaddyTorgo (250), KWhit (278), Barkeep (283), RendeR (294), Danny (431), Telle (650), Alan T (709) 1 - Mrs. Schmidty - EagleFan (362) 1 - EagleFan - Schmidty (394) 1 - OlieGirl - Passacaglia (270) 1 - saldana - Chief Rum (594) __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

06-25-2008, 02:46 PM	#736
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	omg...i never hinted that i was the damn seer!!! just because i was talking about optimal seer strategy now that makes me the seer? that's pretty nebulous. __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

06-25-2008, 02:48 PM	#738
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	If this vote were close I'd probably switch to DT. As it seems like he's going to get it anyway...

06-25-2008, 02:48 PM	#739
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	i'd really rather not reveal sigh __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

06-25-2008, 02:48 PM	#741
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	yeah but that's a pretty weak "hint" __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

06-25-2008, 02:49 PM	#742
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	i dropped a nice juicy hint to my role earlier. guess i have nothing to lose now though. Just means I'm going to be dancing with the wolves all game for as long as I survive trying to out-think when they target me versus when I can protect myself. I'm the bodyguard okay? __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

06-25-2008, 02:49 PM	#743
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	blah __________________ Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature.

06-25-2008, 02:51 PM	#749
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	I'm thinking we're villager/villager here, with a lot of emotion catching us off-guard. I think a tie and no lynch is the best option.

06-25-2008, 02:51 PM	#750
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	I'm happy with the top two candidates and either one is a solid pick today. I'm leaving my vote on Lathum as iI think it's the best choice considering optimal draft strategy, but I don't trust DT as far as I can throw him. "And with your bad knee, Ed, you shouldn't be throwing anybody."

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