2008-2009 College Basketball Thread......

[JonInMiddleGA]

Georgia beats Florida for their first SEC win of the season, dropping the Gators to fourth in the SEC East behind the tied trio of Kentucky, Tennessee, and South Carolina. Anybody have that outcome in their pre-season pool?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Arles

Arizona has won 7 in a row (including wins over UCLA and Washington) to go from "dead" to bubble team. Still a bit of a stretch, but who knows...

I don't think it's a big stretch - 2 more conference wins gets Arizona to 20 overall and 10 in the Pac-10. I think given their reputation, that'd be enough to secure them a tournament spot, especially if they notch another win against the UW or beat Cal.

Thanks to Arizona knocking off UCLA, Washington now has a 1.5 game lead in the Pac-10. I'm not sure if they'll be able to hang on, what with games remaining against the SoCal and Arizona schools and WSU, but they've got some cushion now. Would've been even better if Stanford hadn't collapsed in the 2nd half today and lost to Cal, but it was more important for the Bruins to lose.

[MizzouRah]

We owed you one Nebraska!!!

[Tigercat]

LSU beat a pesky Ole Miss team to improve to 9-1 in the SEC, 21-4 overall. Hopefully a few more NCAA writers/coaches pay attention to non-top 25 box scores and standings this week so the Tigers can get ranked.

Tasmin Mitchell is finally shining like the future all-star he was billed to be out of HS.

[Wolfpack]

With apologies to Digamma and JIMGA, it's nice to know that we're not the worst team in the ACC this year. However, the degree of difficulty gets exponentially harder in the next game as State pays Carolina a visit on Wednesday.

With that being said: Go to Hell, Carolina! Go State!

[duckman]

Blake Griffin was a beast yesterday against Texas Tech. He scored 40 points and pulled down 23 rebounds (third time that has happened in school history) as the Sooners cruised to 95-74 win. That win keeps them at 2 games up in the Big XII with just 5 games to go!

[MrBug708]

God love Ben Howland and what he's done for UCLA. But man needs to change things up once in a great half decade.

And God Bless Josh Shipp and DC and their three Final Fours, but maybe it's time for them to break ground in the NBA/Europe

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by duckman

That win keeps them at 2 games up in the Big XII with just 5 games to go!

How do you figure? If we both win our games this week and then we beat you next Monday (and I don't think we have a great shot as we don't really have a way to stop or even contain Griffin)- we would effectively be in 1st place at 12-1 with you guys at 12-1 but we'd have the tiebreaker.

SI

[duckman]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

How do you figure? If we both win our games this week and then we beat you next Monday (and I don't think we have a great shot as we don't really have a way to stop or even contain Griffin)- we would effectively be in 1st place at 12-1 with you guys at 12-1 but we'd have the tiebreaker.

SI

Sorry, they have 1.5 game lead according to the standings.

Kansas (as well as Mizzou and Texas) has as a good of a shot of beating OU as any elite team in the nation. OU is far from invincible.

[Radii]

Virginia, winless in their last 8 games, beats Clemson 85-81 in OT.


Yesterday, Maryland beat Virginia Tech, muddying up the middle of the ACC, as there are now 6 teams that are either 6-4, 6-5, or 5-5 in conference play. Maryland and Va Tech are both on the bubble, but IMO all this game did was make it more likely that neither get in. Bad loss for Va Tech,and Maryland's next 3 games are vs Clemson, UNC,and Duke.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Radii

Virginia, winless in their last 8 games, beats Clemson 85-81 in OT.


Yesterday, Maryland beat Virginia Tech, muddying up the middle of the ACC, as there are now 6 teams that are either 6-4, 6-5, or 5-5 in conference play. Maryland and Va Tech are both on the bubble, but IMO all this game did was make it more likely that neither get in. Bad loss for Va Tech,and Maryland's next 3 games are vs Clemson, UNC,and Duke.

gonna be cleared up tonight when BC beaks Duke. rest of the family is going, but not me

[Radii]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

gonna be cleared up tonight when BC beaks Duke. rest of the family is going, but not me

I'll be watching, and rooting like hell for BC

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

God love Ben Howland and what he's done for UCLA. But man needs to change things up once in a great half decade.

And God Bless Josh Shipp and DC and their three Final Fours, but maybe it's time for them to break ground in the NBA/Europe

Man, tough crowd. Even UCLA will have dips in the road periodically (and it's pretty impressive when a dip in the road still includes an NCAA tourney seed of 5th or better and 20+ wins...)

[dawgfan]

Dola - I'm just happy UW's rise and UCLA's "dip" is happening now with top C prospect Josh Smith figuring out where he wants to go. The timing of both couldn't be any better for the UW...

[Radii]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Man, tough crowd. Even UCLA will have dips in the road periodically (and it's pretty impressive when a dip in the road still includes an NCAA tourney seed of 5th or better and 20+ wins...)

Don't forget that they also lost two players who were picked in the top 5 of the draft.

My expectations for my team are as high as anyone else's on this board. Any season that doesn't include either an ACC Tournament Championship or a Final Four bid are failed seasons. But the UCLA perspective is a truly unique one Its fun to watch for sure

[Radii]

Huge win for Boston College over Duke. This moves them to 7-5 in the ACC and 19-8 overall. Their RPI isn't great and they have some bad losses(Harvard...) but now have wins over UNC and Duke to help them out. 9-7 in conference play would probably give them a pretty good shot at getting into the tournament.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Radii

Huge win for Boston College over Duke. This moves them to 7-5 in the ACC and 19-8 overall. Their RPI isn't great and they have some bad losses(Harvard...) but now have wins over UNC and Duke to help them out. 9-7 in conference play would probably give them a pretty good shot at getting into the tournament.

Duke is having a rough go of it lately, aren't they?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Duke is having a rough go of it lately, aren't they?

They've lost 4 of their last 6,yeah.

Those losses are at Wake Forest, at Clemson,vs UNC, and at Boston College, so it may not be as terrible as it looks. Their final 5 ACC games are going to be challenging though, so there is the potential for a little freefall before the tournament.

vs Wake
at Maryland
at Virginia Tech
vs Florida State
at UNC

[DaddyTorgo]

YEAH EAGLES!!!!


WOOHOOO!!!!!!

[Radii]

UNC survives in Miami. Miami held UNC to a season low 29 points in the first half. UNC ran out to a 54-40 lead midway through the 2nd half but Jack McClinton decided to take over the game and all of a sudden its 58-57 with 4:30 to go. UNC did a good job hanging on for the win.

This is an especially big win with Duke and Clemson both losing today UNC is 9-2 in ACC play, Duke is 7-4 and 3 others are 6-4. UNC has a much easier schedule down the stretch than Duke as well, setting things up very favorably to win the ACC regular season and get a #1 seed.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Radii

This is an especially big win with Duke and Clemson both losing today UNC is 9-2 in ACC play, Duke is 7-4 and 3 others are 6-4. UNC has a much easier schedule down the stretch than Duke as well, setting things up very favorably to win the ACC regular season and get a #1 seed.

It's definitely turning into a regular rugby scrum in the standings right now. There was a brief opening for other teams to jump on Carolina when they stumbled out of the league gate, but that ship's long since sailed now with Carolina generally managing their schedule while everyone else beats each other down.

Given how things are shaking out, I think the ACC will be looking at 6 or 7 bids. Duke, Carolina, Wake, and Clemson are pretty much all locks at this point. I think FSU's done enough to get in and so has BC (Duke and Carolina, the latter on the road, should be enough to overcome the Harvard loss). However, VT and Miami are both playing their way out at the moment. I think one of the two might make it, but not both.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Given how things are shaking out, I think the ACC will be looking at 6 or 7 bids. Duke, Carolina, Wake, and Clemson are pretty much all locks at this point. I think FSU's done enough to get in and so has BC (Duke and Carolina, the latter on the road, should be enough to overcome the Harvard loss). However, VT and Miami are both playing their way out at the moment. I think one of the two might make it, but not both.

That sounds about right to me. Miami is in huge trouble now, having lost 5 of 6, those losses at the beginning of the run to Va Tech, NC State, and Maryland are really hurting them. If they can finish 4-1 to end up 8-8, not unreasonable given their schedule, and win a game in the ACC Tournament then they have a chance.

Virginia Tech has the advantage of being 6-4 in conference play but they have a nightmare of a schedule. at UVA, vs FSU, at Clemson, vs Duke, vs UNC, at FSU... ouch. if they can manage to finish 3-3 in that stretch they deserve to be in.

Actually, given Va Tech and Maryland's schedules the rest of the way, and the hole Miami has dug, I would put my money on 6 bids right now,but would be happy to see one of those teams somehow play their way in.

NC State is playing a lot better lately, even in their losses. I can't imagine them having a shot at getting in the tournament, but they're not an easy win for anyone anymore. If the game this Saturday was in Raleigh I'd be quite concerned.

[Karlifornia]

USC vs. Arizona State right now on CSN. The game features two stars. The raw Demar DeRozan, and the NBA-ready James Harden.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Very excited to see Mizzou crack the top 10 this week. The poll also shows just how embarrassingly bias the coaches rankings are. Duke at #9 after losing four of their last 6? Anyone outside of the top 5-6 marquee schools would have plummeted in the rankings after that brutal run of basketball, which included a 27 point drubbing on the road.

NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls - ESPN

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah the coaches rankings are embarassingly biased. no doubt!

[Chief Rum]

UCLA deservedly fall to #18 in the coaches poll, and we'll fall further than that in the AP poll, when it comes out.

It's retribution time. Was UCLA jobbed in the ASU game? Yes, a bit. Would that have won them the game? No, it just would have improved their chances. So either way, that game's at best a toss up. And then Collison and Howland both mentioned in post game interviews that the calls in the ASU game, they think, did affect the team going into Saturday's game to U of A, which led to the flat first half that got them down by 20. Sorry, you can't go into McHale with that attitude and facing a team with at least 2 likely lotto picks and expect to win.

UCLA needed this gut check, and hopefully they will come out better for it. But I have my doubts right now that this team has the makeup to get past this. Collison is a very good player, but he doesn't seem to inspire the team like Farmar and Afflalo and Luc Richard did in the past. And the team continues to struggle with some of the ways Howland does things, like (again) the awful way he runs an offense at times, and his lack of trust in freshmen. Also, the team just isn't consistent with the effort.

So Thursday against UW is a huge game for UCLA. Howland will set it up to be a "Game of the Season". If--and it's a huge if, because this team of all teams has shown an inability to rise to this occasion and take that next step--this team listens to Howland and really shows up Thursday, first place or no, the Dawgs are going to get a hurting Thursday night. Especially since UCLA will be in it for revenge, on top of just flat needing the win. Pauley is likely to be hopping mad, too.

I am looking forward to a good game.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So Thursday against UW is a huge game for UCLA. Howland will set it up to be a "Game of the Season". If--and it's a huge if, because this team of all teams has shown an inability to rise to this occasion and take that next step--this team listens to Howland and really shows up Thursday, first place or no, the Dawgs are going to get a hurting Thursday night. Especially since UCLA will be in it for revenge, on top of just flat needing the win. Pauley is likely to be hopping mad, too.

I am looking forward to a good game.

For all of these reasons, plus the simple fact UCLA is more talented, I expect the Bruins to beat the UW, and by at least 15 points.

It's setting up to be a crazy finish to the Pac-10 season this year...

[molson]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Very excited to see Mizzou crack the top 10 this week. The poll also shows just how embarrassingly bias the coaches rankings are. Duke at #9 after losing four of their last 6? Anyone outside of the top 5-6 marquee schools would have plummeted in the rankings after that brutal run of basketball, which included a 27 point drubbing on the road.

NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls - ESPN

They're still #5 in the RPI, so the coaches poll is actually harsher than their "real" ranking (for purposes of tournament seeding).

I saw this phenomenon with Syracuse over the last few weeks - they lost 6 out of 8, and actually rose in the RPI over that time, because they faced 5 of the top 15 teams.

[RedKingGold]

Not that I agree with MBBF that much, but these coaches rankings are pretty useless.

Marquette ahead of Villanova after Nova' destroyed them by 19 points last week? Weak.

[kcchief19]

Then the AP poll must be equally embarrassing because Duke is No. 9 there too. Taken in context -- at No. 8, at No. 13, vs. No. 3 -- it's not that big of a deal. The case could be easily made they deserve to be in the mid teens so they may be a little overranked, but this isn't football -- the voters are putting them where they think they belong, not just based solely on who won and lost last week.

I knew Missouri would jump up a couple of spots but didn't expect 10 in coaches and 11 in AP. Little nervous about that because I'm not sure how this team will react. The Tigers get their bye this week then its at Colorado, vs. K-State at KU and vs. OU. I will gladly take 2-2 at that stretch and I'm popping champagne at 3-1. 4-0 and we'll be writhing on the floor in ecstacy.

[Karlifornia]

Uconn down 12-6 when Thabeet comes back from injury..see how long it takes them to come back (probably not very long)

[Swaggs]

Pitt and UConn both look really good. They are both very impressive in half-court defensives sets.

I hate Duke as much as the next guy, but looking over other teams' resumes, Duke is pretty well in the range that they belong in as far as I can tell.

[Groundhog]

If DeJuan Blair was about 2 inches taller he'd be a lottery pick.

[cougarfreak]

Jesus, UConn and Pitt are having a hockey game right now.

[Karlifornia]

What the hell was Levance Fields doing there after that offensive board?

[Swaggs]

I wonder if Arizona will make a play for Jaime Dixon after this season.

He is a West Coast guy and Arizona is one of the two best jobs in the Pac 10, in my opinion. It would make a lot of sense unless Pitt is willing to pay up (which they have a history of not doing).

[muns]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I wonder if Arizona will make a play for Jaime Dixon after this season.

He is a West Coast guy and Arizona is one of the two best jobs in the Pac 10, in my opinion. It would make a lot of sense unless Pitt is willing to pay up (which they have a history of not doing).

I dont see it happening. He would be walking into a horrible situation (basically starting over), when he has a fantastic thing going at Pitt.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by muns

I dont see it happening. He would be walking into a horrible situation (basically starting over), when he has a fantastic thing going at Pitt.

What? Horrible situation? Granted, Arizona isn't where they were during Lute's glory years, but on name alone it's still one of the top programs in the country.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

What? Horrible situation? Granted, Arizona isn't where they were during Lute's glory years, but on name alone it's still one of the top programs in the country.

While I can appreciate your argument about the name and how it used to be, but they havent done anything in how many years? They dont exactly have the kids on the team now, so its a rebuild job, and on top of that take a look at the adminisration. They run out the guy they had picked to replace Lute, because Lute comes back and feels threatened. On that alone that makes it a tough job to land a big name as it can look unstable. If Dixon leaves a top program for that situation in my opinion he would be an idiot.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It would make a lot of sense unless Pitt is willing to pay up (which they have a history of not doing).

Uh, they extended his contract a few years ago when Arizona State made a play for him so idk how they have a history of not doing it. I think (hope) Jamie stays at Pitt for awhile...he's got the most consistent Big East team the last 8 years and he's bringing in his best recruiting class by far since he's been coach. I think he stays.

[Groundhog]

I think Pitt is one of those situations that it would make sense for him to stick around at least for a few more years yet. Stepping in to another big name school is not neccessarily always the wisest move for a coach, because often it takes a year or so to get the players you need for your system, and success is expected straight away. Don't win, and you may be out of the job and off to a mid-major to work your way back up to the top again.

If he can keep bringing in the recruiting classes, he has a real chance at turning Pitt in to a major player in that conference. Unless the cash was significantly greater, I'd stick it out at Pitt.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

If he can keep bringing in the recruiting classes, he has a real chance at turning Pitt in to a major player in that conference. Unless the cash was significantly greater, I'd stick it out at Pitt.

Pitt's already a major player in the conference. 8 straight years of 20+ wins and 10+ conference wins. Now he has to make Pitt a player in the NCAA's...never been past the sweet 16, although that's got to change this year I hope.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by yacovfb

Uh, they extended his contract a few years ago when Arizona State made a play for him so idk how they have a history of not doing it. I think (hope) Jamie stays at Pitt for awhile...he's got the most consistent Big East team the last 8 years and he's bringing in his best recruiting class by far since he's been coach. I think he stays.

They also have allowed their past two ADs to leave over money (to Arkansas and Nebraska--although Pederson came back after being fired), allowed Howland to leave, let football coach Walt Harris leave for Stanford, let Johnny Majors leave for Tennessee, and let Jackie Sherrill leave for Texas A&M.

You can argue that all of those guys had their reasons for leaving, but over the past 30-years, Pitt has certainly let alot of talent leave for other teams.

Dixon is from California and previously lived in Arizona. He just signed an extension for somewhere between $1.5M-1.6M per year (through '16) and will become the all-time winningest head coach through the first 6-years of a career. He may feel loyalty towards Pitt for giving him a chance, but if you look at some of the coin going around these days, it wouldn't surprise me to see him get an offer for over $2M this offseason. That would be pretty hard to turn down if it gets him closer to home and to a, historically, more prestigious school.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by muns

While I can appreciate your argument about the name and how it used to be, but they havent done anything in how many years? They dont exactly have the kids on the team now, so its a rebuild job, and on top of that take a look at the adminisration. They run out the guy they had picked to replace Lute, because Lute comes back and feels threatened. On that alone that makes it a tough job to land a big name as it can look unstable. If Dixon leaves a top program for that situation in my opinion he would be an idiot.

Is it any worse than the situation that Tom Crean left Marquette for when he came to Indiana?

I think there are a handful of schools (UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, Indiana) that, when they call, you listen whether you are happy at your job or not. I think schools like Arizona, UConn, Syracuse, and Duke are either on that list or on the cusp of being on that list due to the amount of success, over a great number of years, that Olson, Calhoun, Boeheim, and Coach K. have recently had. Just my opinion, but if one of those schools are sniffing around my team's coach, I'm pretty nervous.

[dawgfan]

If I'm Arizona, I make a big play for Mark Few at the end of the year. It appears as though Ernie Kent will survive this season at Oregon despite what a disaster it's been, so now is probably going to be the best time to tempt Few. If Oregon cans Kent, then they would be considered front-runners to lure Few away from Gonzaga.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

They also have allowed their past two ADs to leave over money (to Arkansas and Nebraska--although Pederson came back after being fired), allowed Howland to leave, let football coach Walt Harris leave for Stanford, let Johnny Majors leave for Tennessee, and let Jackie Sherrill leave for Texas A&M.

You can argue that all of those guys had their reasons for leaving, but over the past 30-years, Pitt has certainly let alot of talent leave for other teams.

Dixon is from California and previously lived in Arizona. He just signed an extension for somewhere between $1.5M-1.6M per year (through '16) and will become the all-time winningest head coach through the first 6-years of a career. He may feel loyalty towards Pitt for giving him a chance, but if you look at some of the coin going around these days, it wouldn't surprise me to see him get an offer for over $2M this offseason. That would be pretty hard to turn down if it gets him closer to home and to a, historically, more prestigious school.

Major and Sherril are good ones that left that werent shown the door. Pederson had a problem with the way his football coach in Harris was being treated saw the writing on the door and bolted to Nebraska and a bigger budget, and Harris was then let go.

Howland left to go back home to UCLA, and no matter what Pitt did they werent gonna stop that one. (Ucla and Arizona are apples and oranges)

Going from 1.5 mil to 2.5 mil isnt nearly enough coin to jump ship to Arizona to clean up the mess * i know you said over 2 mil, im just having fun with this conversation*. That only starts the convo if you think Arizona has a better reputation going for them now than Pitt, which I dont.

Dixon has the number 15 rated class in the country coming in for next year which has already been pointed out is his best ever and he sits atop the big east.

On top of this, you have to talk about Maggie Dixon and all the funds both the Big East, Pitt, and stuff they do at MSG for the Maggie Dixon Classic for cancer research. Moving West goes the opposite way of NY and Army which is where she coached and as close as they both were to each other that would also play in him moving somewhere.

[Swaggs]

Few would be another great choice.

Hard to believe that he has passed on so many offers.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by muns

Major and Sherril are good ones that left that werent shown the door. Pederson had a problem with the way his football coach in Harris was being treated saw the writing on the door and bolted to Nebraska and a bigger budget, and Harris was then let go.

Agree with pretty much everything you've written although Nebraska was also Pederson's alma mater, another (and probably main) reason he bolted.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Is it any worse than the situation that Tom Crean left Marquette for when he came to Indiana?

I think there are a handful of schools (UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, Indiana) that, when they call, you listen whether you are happy at your job or not. I think schools like Arizona, UConn, Syracuse, and Duke are either on that list or on the cusp of being on that list due to the amount of success, over a great number of years, that Olson, Calhoun, Boeheim, and Coach K. have recently had. Just my opinion, but if one of those schools are sniffing around my team's coach, I'm pretty nervous.

No its not even close to the Indiana situation, which was way worse, but Indiana and Arizona arent on the same level which is where we disagree.

Even with who has been at Indiana they were able to land top classes because Indiana can recruit itself. Without Lute at the helm and lets be honest, even with him there in his later years they werent landing top classes.

As you pointed out with your list of schools, you have Arizona on the cusp, and I dont. Arizona doesnt recruit itself like the others do, and the past how many years is proof of that.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Few would be another great choice.

Hard to believe that he has passed on so many offers.

It is amazing where Few could have landed but choose to stay. You think this might be the year he bolts since its not his usual kick ass year?