POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[larrymcg421]

Dem nominee prices on PredictIt

Biden - .52
Newsom - .27
Harris - .15
Clinton - .05
Buttigieg - .02
Pritzker - .02

I think the Newsom money is bad. If Biden steps aside now, Harris gets the nomination.

[RainMaker]

How is Whitmer not up there?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Dem nominee prices on PredictIt

I think the Newsom money is bad. If Biden steps aside now, Harris gets the nomination.

That would be like shooting the golden goose. Entirely on brand though.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

CNN definitely gave Biden dementia and made him look terrible.

There is the worshipper, always one of you. Trump is so much younger than Biden, 3 years? Anyways, I'm curious how one has dementia if he can answer a question with an answer that is rational and well thought out, but the other guy acts like a monkey throwing his feces from the diapers he wears. A sign of dementia is an inability to act rationally and follow instructions. Mango Mussolini failed miserably on both.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

This isn't the first time trump has done this. Debates without any control are perfect for him. He just gets to be his normal lying unhinged clown self.

The Biden team insisted on this format.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The Biden team insisted on this format.

That's a new one. Donald Trump is a narcissist, unhinged liar and your response is Joe Biden insisted on this format.

Why do you think he lied on a national television about something is so obviously true and something he would love to brag about? Probably because he's a con man. He doesn't want to lose his precious religious suckers that love him because he cheated on his wife with some whore.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

That's a new one. Donald Trump is a narcissist, unhinged liar and your response is Joe Biden insisted on this format.

Why do you think he lied on a national television about something is so obviously true and something he would love to brag about? Probably because he's a con man. He doesn't want to lose his precious religious suckers that love him because he cheated on his wife with some whore.

You complained about the format of the debate and insinuated it was setup to help Trump. I simply stated that the format was one that the Biden team insisted on.

I see you're on to stage 2 though. Bargaining up next.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You complained about the format of the debate and insinuated it was setup to help Trump. I simply stated that the format was one that the Biden team insisted on.

I see you're on to stage 2 though. Bargaining up next.

I'm glad you know what i think better than me.
Trump is old, a felon, a moron and a liar, while Biden is just old.

You never explained why you worship a cheat, liar and overall terrible human being? I'm curious. Is that because you relate to that? Do you go out in a public and push old women in the street or something? Rob poor kids of their milk money?

[RainMaker]

I don't support Trump and will not be voting for him. I would prefer he lose which is why I am upset people like you insisted on Joe Biden.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Looking forward to a competent, if not strong, showing by you Joe on Jun 27. You got your wish with no audience.

Please make sure your make up guy makes you look less old.

Joe, you need to fire your prep team ... and your make up guy.

Originally Posted by Edward64

I do agree vast majority of older voters have made up their minds by now (unless Joe has an "Admiral Stockdale" moment in the debates).

Joe had his Stockdale moment. He was certainly better than Stockdale and maybe not as fatal, but yeah, this was it.

Originally Posted by Edward64

Looking forward to the supposed Jun & Sep debates.

Dreading it some but I can see it help Joe if he holds his own. If it’s a bad day, he gets confused etc. I can see it really hurt him.

But the public deserves at least one debate.

Scratch that. Definitely not looking forward to Sep debate and it's obvious that Joe should have avoided the Jun debate. Say "it's pretty clear everyone knows what he and I stand for based on our records, and he'll lie anyway on the stage, so why waste time".

Joe's cognitive decline was pretty obvious on stage. I'd welcome being as sharp as he is when I'm that age, but the contrast from 4 years ago and contrast to Trump in performance (not content) is striking.

But as I've said, debates matter. This time it worked against Joe and, if he loses, will be a major reason.



... Dems better get real, real serious about the House & Senate.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Dem nominee prices on PredictIt

Biden - .52
Newsom - .27
Harris - .15
Clinton - .05
Buttigieg - .02
Pritzker - .02

I think the Newsom money is bad. If Biden steps aside now, Harris gets the nomination.

under no circumstances will Biden step aside.

I mean dems never learned that (*cough* rbg *cough*)

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

under no circumstances will Biden step aside.

I mean dems never learned that (*cough* rbg *cough*)

Feinstein too.

[CrimsonFox]

PS debates don't matter one bit

[Edward64]

I'll let things settle down for a couple days and see how I feel (doubt it'll change), but right now I believe Thomas Friedman has it right.

Joe Biden Is a Good Man and a Good President. He Must Bow Out of the Race. – DNyuz

I had been ready to give Biden the benefit of the doubt up to now, because during the times I engaged with him one on one, I found him up to the job. He clearly is not any longer. His family and his staff had to have known that. They have been holed up at Camp David preparing for this momentous debate for days now. If that is the best performance they could summon from him, it’s time for Joe to keep the dignity he deserves and leave the stage at the end of this term.

If he does, everyday Americans will hail Joe Biden for doing what Donald Trump would never do — put the country before himself.

If he insists on running and he loses to Trump, Biden and his family — and his staff and party members who enabled him — will not be able to show their faces.

They deserve better. American needs better. The world needs better.

It'll be tough for Joe but he should step aside for the greater good. I really don't think Kamala can win it, so I'm thinking Newsome (and/or Michelle) is the best shot the Dems have.

But even if Joe doesn't step aside, I'll still vote for him.

[GrantDawg]

Al Gore is younger than both Trump and Biden.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Al Gore is younger than both Trump and Biden.

So is RFK Jr. ... and he's younger than Al.

He's starting to look better and better everyday in a 3 person race.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So is RFK Jr. ... and he's younger than Al.

He's starting to look better and better everyday in a 3 person race.

No he doesn't. The dude is crazier than Trump.

[GrantDawg]

Dola: Though I will say you may be on to who the real winner last night ends up. I wonder what his bump in the polls will be?

[Ksyrup]

I didn't watch a second of the debate and I don't understand why anyone would, but it appears Joe Biden was the only person in America to have a worse day yesterday than Tim Weah.

Biden should step aside, but all that would do for him is provide some legacy/face-saving ("he did the honorable thing") rather than adding a humiliating defeat to his record. But doing the honorable thing left the building about a year ago. I don't believe it would actually change the outcome of the election for a new candidate to replace him now. No one likes Harris. Any of the others would just be thrown into a fight with little armor or weapons and no time to MacGyver anything.

To bookend my comment yesterday, I suppose the only bright side to Trump winning is we delay a potential Constitutional crisis to beyond January 2025 since he won't have an election loss to try to overturn in whatever ways he could force GOP states and Congresspeople to do it for him.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

No he doesn't. The dude is crazier than Trump.

Really?

If it was only Trump vs RFK Jr, no third choice, you would pick Trump?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Really?

If it was only Trump vs RFK Jr, no third choice, you would pick Trump?

I would absolutely not vote RFK, and I guarantee one or more 3rd party candidates with better, more moderate/sane track records would enter the race.

[Kodos]

Dear Joe. You saved us once in 2020. Thank you. We are in your debt. But the saving move this time is to step aside and let someone younger and more vigorous take up the fight. You've done your job. Now let the next person take the mantle. History will be kind to you if you step aside.

[MJ4H]

RFK Jr.? Not voting for an anti-vax conspiracy theory maniac, thanks.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Dear Joe. You saved us once in 2020. Thank you. We are in your debt. But the saving move this time is to step aside and let someone younger and more vigorous take up the fight. You've done your job. Now let the next person take the mantle. History will be kind to you if you step aside

It's way, way too late for that. Needed to happen minimum six months ago if it was going to happen.

Originally Posted by bronconick

Someone should take both to a retirement home and we'll pick new people starting tomorrow.

We the people picked these candidates. In a free society you get the government you deserve. Grab a mirror, folks. That's the first step to solving the problem.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

We the people picked these candidates. In a free society you get the government you deserve. Grab a mirror, folks. That's the first step to solving the problem.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So is RFK Jr. ... and he's younger than Al.

He's starting to look better and better everyday in a 3 person race.

If you are going 3rd party at least go Chase Oliver.

[Ksyrup]

Down goes Chevron.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't support Trump and will not be voting for him. I would prefer he lose which is why I am upset people like you insisted on Joe Biden.

This is where I stand.

I will still vote Biden but he virtually has zero chance to win. Most voters aren't particularly informed and anyone who watched that last night isn't going to be won over by Joes performance.

[Ksyrup]

They didn't even have to watch to know that Joe was terrible and reinforced every (over the top) thing the GOP has said about him. They just have to watch GMA, or take a brief look at headlines from around various media about the debate. I mean, I expect Fox News to destroy Biden, but I woke up this morning to Sky News and BBC headlines about what a disaster Biden was. So it's not like it matters whether you are in your own echo chamber - his performance was universally panned and a fair number of people are openly questioning whether he should step aside for the good of the country and to preserve his legacy (nevermind that it's too late - all that matters is that these are the discussion topics).

Add on that thanks to the SC, Trump now has more fuel to argue J6 criminals were railroaded and even that seemingly slam-dunk topic has now been partially derailed.

Pretty terrible 18 or so hours. Not sure how much worse it could be for Biden, apart from a legit medical episode.

[Lathum]

If I am Iran, China, etc...today is the day I seriously consider launching any planned attacks on America or allies.

Last night was a national security disaster as much as anything else.

Time for a serious 25th amendment talk

[Atocep]

Lost in last night's disaster, BTW, was the fact that Trump dropped the term "black jobs" which in a normal presidential debate would have been a scandal.

[cuervo72]

Eh, it wasn't lost on many Black posters on Twitter.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Lost in last night's disaster, BTW, was the fact that Trump dropped the term "black jobs" which in a normal presidential debate would have been a scandal.

yeah but since he is a fellow felon he is basically one of them now...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Lost in last night's disaster, BTW, was the fact that Trump dropped the term "black jobs" which in a normal presidential debate would have been a scandal.

He had a really terrible debate that would.have crushed him if he was on the stage next to just about anyone else.

[Danny]

Bidens only real chance now is Trump having a medical emegenvy prior to the election. Ill of course be voting for Biden but neither should be anywhere near the ballot.

[thesloppy]

Time to dust off all those 'leaving the country' fantasies.

[Brian Swartz]

What's the hit rate on people actually following through on that in recent cycles? Under 1%?

[Ksyrup]

I've already dusted mine off, but it's just that - a fantasy. He didn't say anything about people following through with it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, legit question, since I'm not inclined to fall into the rabbit hole of looking up specifics but I figure someone here probably has already done the reading.

In Georgia, as a baseline, there is precedent in local elections for a candidate to (for example) die before an election but after ballots are printed. In those cases, votes for Deceased Cand. A are counted for Replacement Candidate B.
In other instances, votes for a deceased candidate are discarded entirely, only votes for other candidate(s) are counted. So a variety of methods basically, both of which have been used right here in my own county since we got here.

Let's say that Joe is incapacitated and steps aside. Let's further say (hypothetically) that Trump has a medical incident and dies outright.*

What happens in states where ballots are already locked in?
And does it matter that there are difference circumstances to the two departures?

*Doing the deceased thing here in order to set up a "are there differences in the rules for different reasons" scenario.

[Jas_lov]

There's clips on Twitter of Joe's rally in NC today. He's much more passionate and clear. Why didn't that guy show up last night? Is it just the Teleprompter? It's just too late to change candidates now so have to hope that Joe has it in him to show up for the 2nd debate.

[Ksyrup]

Is Trump going to show up for a second debate? Why would he?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is Trump going to show up for a second debate? Why would he?

Fair question.

[NobodyHere]

Is Joe going to show up to the second debate? He wasn't there the first time around.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

What's the hit rate on people actually following through on that in recent cycles? Under 1%?

Probably FAR under. In reality that's at least a combination of finding a new job, moving all of your shit across the world, and endless discussions/conflicts with family. A combo meal of everybody's favorites.

[bhlloy]

You also have to find a job in an English speaking country or in a corporation that is multi-national enough you can speak English, and is willing to sponsor you and deal with the red tape and the penalties to hire on a visa. And then if you are looking to move to Europe, outside of the UK pretty much the entire continent is moving to the right of Trump anyway right now.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Ironically, we are considering moving back just in time for what is increasingly looking like a comfortable Trump win. We'll see how much that influences the decision over the next few months, but culturally being in a non-English speaking country has been tough.

[Lathum]

Where are you?

[bhlloy]

We moved to Switzerland in mid-2022

[Ksyrup]

Interesting. Did you move principally for political reasons, or it just happened to coincide with an opportunity or a "fuck it, let's try something different" type of decision?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, legit question, since I'm not inclined to fall into the rabbit hole of looking up specifics but I figure someone here probably has already done the reading.

In Georgia, as a baseline, there is precedent in local elections for a candidate to (for example) die before an election but after ballots are printed. In those cases, votes for Deceased Cand. A are counted for Replacement Candidate B.
In other instances, votes for a deceased candidate are discarded entirely, only votes for other candidate(s) are counted. So a variety of methods basically, both of which have been used right here in my own county since we got here.

Let's say that Joe is incapacitated and steps aside. Let's further say (hypothetically) that Trump has a medical incident and dies outright.*

What happens in states where ballots are already locked in?
And does it matter that there are difference circumstances to the two departures?

*Doing the deceased thing here in order to set up a "are there differences in the rules for different reasons" scenario.

I actually talked about this recently in one of these threads. Both parties allow their respective National Committees to select new candidates with little variations. Democrats require the party chair to consult Democratic governors and congressional leadership first. The RNC can either select themselves or try to form an emergency nominating convention.

Of course there are legal questions. I do wonder if this would free up electors once the electoral college met, but by the party bylaws this what supposed to happen.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

You also have to find a job in an English speaking country or in a corporation that is multi-national enough you can speak English, and is willing to sponsor you and deal with the red tape and the penalties to hire on a visa. And then if you are looking to move to Europe, outside of the UK pretty much the entire continent is moving to the right of Trump anyway right now.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Ironically, we are considering moving back just in time for what is increasingly looking like a comfortable Trump win. We'll see how much that influences the decision over the next few months, but culturally being in a non-English speaking country has been tough.

If I had a chance to move to England or Canada, I would jump in a heart beat. Australia or New Zealand as well. A non-English speaking country would give me pause, but I would probably do something like the Netherlands or Sweden.