It's here! The NHL 2003-04 playoff thread

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Simms

What about Eddie as a Shark?

Eddie was a shark????

Now this i don't remember

[bbor]

4-2 Wings....i know where i will be at 3pm on Saturday

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by bbor

Eddie was a shark????

Now this i don't remember

He was there for what, a half season, if that? That's who the Hawks actually traded him to at the deadline. Then he signed with Dallas in the offseason.

SI

[bbor]

Who the Hawks get for him?

[Draft Dodger]

Sharks traded 3 players (Chris Terreri, Michal Sykora, and Ulf Dahlen) to get Belfour for 13 games, 3 of them wins (so, the Sharks got a win per player traded). of course, the Sharks were hoping he'd re-sign with them and he'd be a cornerstone for the franchise. he didn't.

he used to get booed pretty heavily in SJ - wonder if they still hold a grudge there.

[Draft Dodger]

dola - I had to look that up, I didn't remember the players.
I actually thought it was some more significant talent than that...

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

btw - Hurst is here and in a good mood. Wings must have won?

Good mood yes, but it was at the cost of 20 minutes of near stroke.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Good mood yes, but it was at the cost of 20 minutes of near stroke.

um, yeah - I know the feeling.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by bbor

Lets play ......Red Wings we hate.....past and present.

Ron Dugay
Harold Snepsts
Jimmy Carson
Kris Draper
Darren McCarty
Brett Hull
Curtis Joseph

But I really really really hate:
Brad McCrimmon
Derian Hatcher

This was fun

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

he used to get booed pretty heavily in SJ - wonder if they still hold a grudge there.

Yes, they do. It's quite delicious.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

dola - I had to look that up, I didn't remember the players.
I actually thought it was some more significant talent than that...

What was the reason for the trade? I looked it up and saw that San Jose wasn't in contention for the playoffs. The Blackhawks ended up about a game under .500.

[bbor]

Jimmy Carson....Mr.Hollywood...good name Klayman

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

What was the reason for the trade? I looked it up and saw that San Jose wasn't in contention for the playoffs. The Blackhawks ended up about a game under .500.

well, on Chicago's part, he was approaching free agency, he had a pretty poor season and Jeff "Can't" Hackett was getting more playing time. You can only imagine what a prince Belfour would have been in the dressing room under those conditions.

as for the Sharks? again, I think they assumed he'd sign with them and they would have a rock-solid goaltender for the next 5 years or so. bad assumption.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

well, on Chicago's part, he was approaching free agency, he had a pretty poor season and Jeff "Can't" Hackett was getting more playing time. You can only imagine what a prince Belfour would have been in the dressing room under those conditions.

Oh yeah. I had forgotten that. That's what it actually was. Basically, the reason was because Hackett and Belfour couldn't get along in the same locker room so they had to get rid of one. Of course, the logical choice was to run the Vezina trophy winner out of town over a never will be.

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

Wow. You bastards. The lot of you!

I go away for one night and this thread becomes some sort of twisted Red Wings "Hate-In". I have a lot to respond to. Hopefully it will be a quiet day at the old office...

Hurst, I may need some back-up.

First off, the game. Those two goals in 18 seconds followed by the two-on-one break almost killed me. Seriously, I nearly died. But, that's all behind us. This series could easily go 7 games. The Wings have controlled play at times, but have by no means been dominant.

As for f*cking VILE Niemenen, what the hell? His ass should be (and will likely be) suspended for the next game. That was a class move. He obviously picked that number up from his days as a legionaire with the Forces of Darkness (no offense, DD). Bastard.

Johnny, your dad hates Steve Yzerman??? That's pure insanity. How can you hate Steve Yzerman?? Even at the peak of my hatred of Forces of Darkness(tm), when my hatred was a perfect hatred, pure and focused, I never hated Joe Sakic. I found it impossible, regardless of him scoring game-winning goals/series-clinching goals against the Wings. As for the rest of those bumbs...

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Oh yeah. I had forgotten that. That's what it actually was. Basically, the reason was because Hackett and Belfour couldn't get along in the same locker room so they had to get rid of one. Of course, the logical choice was to run the Vezina trophy winner out of town over a never will be.

SI

shit, now I remember. The soap opera was a pretty big story. I remember listening to 1 on 1 sports or sports byline USA during that time. IF I remember, fans were going to bat for hackett.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Wow. You bastards. The lot of you!

I go away for one night and this thread becomes some sort of twisted Red Wings "Hate-In". I have a lot to respond to. Hopefully it will be a quiet day at the old office...

Hurst, I may need some back-up.

First off, the game. Those two goals in 18 seconds followed by the two-on-one break almost killed me. Seriously, I nearly died. But, that's all behind us. This series could easily go 7 games. The Wings have controlled play at times, but have by no means been dominant.

As for f*cking VILE Niemenen, what the hell? His ass should be (and will likely be) suspended for the next game. That was a class move. He obviously picked that number up from his days as a legionaire with the Forces of Darkness (no offense, DD). Bastard.

Johnny, your dad hates Steve Yzerman??? That's pure insanity. How can you hate Steve Yzerman?? Even at the peak of my hatred of Forces of Darkness(tm), when my hatred was a perfect hatred, pure and focused, I never hated Joe Sakic. I found it impossible, regardless of him scoring game-winning goals/series-clinching goals against the Wings. As for the rest of those bumbs...

I tend to be a little to over dramatic about these things but if the series does go to a game 7, it could be Cujo's waterloo. I might be alone but I have very little faith in Joseph. It is actually worse with him then it was with Osgood, because Chris didn't have the history and pressure.

Of course, I said the same thing after game 5 of the last Colorado series.

Again, never hated Sakic but I wanted to choke the shit out of Forsberg...many times.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

shit, now I remember. The soap opera was a pretty big story. I remember listening to 1 on 1 sports or sports byline USA during that time. IF I remember, fans were going to bat for hackett.

I never understood it. But I also wasn't in Chicago so I wasn't close to the situation. I had to rely on national news and it just didn't make any sense to me since I was never a Jeff Hackett fan at all but people seemed to think he might have been something. Then again, until 2 seasons ago, I didn't like Thibault either but I've changed my tune.

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by klayman

Ron Dugay
Harold Snepsts
Jimmy Carson
Kris Draper
Darren McCarty
Brett Hull
Curtis Joseph

But I really really really hate:
Brad McCrimmon
Derian Hatcher

This was fun

I will take each candidate in turn...

Harold Snepsts. Haaaaaarold.... Haaaaaaarold... How could you hate Harold Snepsts? He was like a big, loveable teddy bear that guy. His balding head, his bushy 'stache. He was like the gruff, kindly old uncle everyone loves. He was around on the cusp of the Wings initial surge back in 87/88 when the young, spunky Wings kept losing to the Force of Nature that were the Gretyzky Oilers. Speaking of that era, was there a more exciting player than Probie in 87-88. 29 Goals, 398 PIMs, an all-star. Absolutely classic. Granted, he was likely coked up for most games, but that just made things all the more interesting.

Jimmy Carson. Well, I have no defense. He's in belongs to an elite class of players known as "The Red Wings H_B Hated Even While Playing For The Wings." I hated him. He was whiny, soft, and did nothing. Not too mention he was a Young Republican. He joined gorups and everything. He was horrible. His worst offense was that the Wings traded Petr Klima for him. Petr Klima, H_B's first favorite hockey player. The great moves, the great hair, that amazingly cool helmet, Goose Loonies, his crazy antics the led to the Wings drafting Keith Primeau over Jarmir Jagr... Ahh, #85, you were a legend.

Kris Draper. A lot of people seem to hate him, but I have no idea why. How can you hate a guy who was traded for $1. Yes, one dollar. That was it. He's all about working hard, grinding away, all the little stuff. The people love him. He's incredibly friendly (I met him once at a mall, back in 1994, before he was famous. I recognized him immediately. We chatted for a few moments. Incredibly nice, down-to-earth guy). There is really nothing to hate about Kris Draper. At all.

Darren McCarty. I can see where people wouldn't like him, being the resident "tough guy" and all. He pisses me off too from time to time. He's a bit of tease offensively and gets more credit than deserved. That said, he's a warrior. What he did to Lemieux back in 1997 will never be forgotten. That and his amazing game-winning/Cup-clinching goal in Game 4 of the 1997 Stanley Cup Finals. It was an amazing move, forever etched into my mind.

Brett Hull. Yeah, I can see that. I didn't like him either. Though he really gained my respect back in the 1996 Canada Cup series. He was everywhere in that series. He scored clutch goals, back-checked (something I had never seen before), and was a real leader.

Why doesn't anyone ever talk about the 1996 Canada Cup (or World Cup, or whatever the hell they called it). It was classic. The US/Canada games were incredibly rough, featuring quite a few fights in the early rounds. You have the US/Russia game in Montreal where the Quebecios start booing the US and cheering for the Russians, sending Don Cherry on a "This is the first time in my life I've been embrassed to be a Canadian" rant. Great games. Mike Richter's performance in the US/Canada final is still the best single-game performance by a goalie I have ever seen. He faced some ridiculously high number of shots, all from all-stars/potential hall-of-famers and was outstanding.

Curtis Joseph. I have luke-warm feelings for the guy. He seems very decent and handled the whole Hasek thing with class. I could see where one could be pissed at him for chasing after the fat salary or such.

Brad McCrimmon. What? Why do you hate Brad McCrimmon aka The Beast? Well, I could see hating him, but he was only a Wing for like 3 years or something, all in the twilight of his career. I could see hating him as a Flyer, but as a Wing? Come on!

Derian Hatcher. Yeah, I hated him too. At the moment I am neutral. Lawful neutral.

[sachmo71]

Draper dives. He draws penalties for the Wings. He scores clutch goals. Ergo, I hate him.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Ok, now for the others...

Joey Kocur. How could you hate Joey? First of all, he's Wendy's cousin! That alone should put him in Leafs fans' good graces. He had the single hardest/best punch in the NHL for years. He comes back from playing in the beer leagues to a win a Stanley Cup, not to mention scoring a goal in the Finals. Kocur and Probert, the Bruise Brothers, those where good times.

Shawn Burr. I kinda liked him. He was really pretty funny. He was always doing interviews and the like. Very personable. Scotty Bowman hated him. A lot. It didn't end well for Burr, he took a lot of the blame for the Cup Finals lost against New Jersey. He appeared to give Scott Neidermeyer his stick back for some reason and then Neidermeyer went down the ice and scored a goal. It was strange. Coffey and Burr took a lot of heat after that series.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Draper dives. He draws penalties for the Wings. He scores clutch goals. Ergo, I hate him.

Draper doesn't dive. That much. He's just always hustling and that causes him to fall. I will admit there are a couple of "embelishers" on the Wings. Maltby is probably the worst. Holmstrom can be pretty bad too, but the guy takes a pounding. It's amazing the punishment he withstands. So, if he flops once or twice, the guys whacking away at him likely deserve whatever they get.

[klayman]

McCrimmon stems from his Flyers days. Snepsts from his days as a Canuck. Carson from his days as an Oiler, funny enough. But the game wasn't called List players you hated just as Red Wings, it was list all hated Wings, past or present. In fact, in my list only Draper and McCarty are hated from their Wing careers.

As for the series, the Flames lost their chance to win it last night. It probably has something to do with me cheering for the Flames, but I'm sure Detroit will win the series now. Guess that means I'm cheering for the Sharks now...ugh. And this year had so much potential

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by klayman

McCrimmon stems from his Flyers days. Snepsts from his days as a Canuck. Carson from his days as an Oiler, funny enough. But the game wasn't called List players you hated just as Red Wings, it was list all hated Wings, past or present. In fact, in my list only Draper and McCarty are hated from their Wing careers.

As for the series, the Flames lost their chance to win it last night. It probably has something to do with me cheering for the Flames, but I'm sure Detroit will win the series now. Guess that means I'm cheering for the Sharks now...ugh. And this year had so much potential

You are totally a closet Red Wings fan. Even I hate more Wings from their Wings careers than you!

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

You are totally a closet Red Wings fan. Even I hate more Wings from their Wings careers than you!

Slander!!!

Or...maybe I just don't care as much about the crappy team as you do?

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

But I also wasn't in Chicago so I wasn't close to the situation. I had to rely on national news and it just didn't make any sense to me since I was never a Jeff Hackett fan at all but people seemed to think he might have been something.

I remember this. Belfour was struggling and Hackett was playing much better than him. Belfour was acting like a child. He stopped talking to Jeff. He was always pouting. He, apparently, had a physical confrontation with Hackett off the ice where he threw Jeff up against the wall and told him that he would never be a number one goaltender in the NHL. As good of a goalie that Belfour has ever been, he seems to be a terrible person.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Simms

Steve Yzerman is the only reason that I've never been able to develop a serious hate for the Red Wings.

He could play for my hockey team any day of the week and twice on Sundays. The definitive hockey package of class and ability. How can you NOT like the guy?

Agreed. Damn Yzerman. Always being so classy... bastard.

But I'd like to add another guy to the Hated Wings list: Paul Ysebaert.

No reason. It's just a goofy name.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Agreed. Damn Yzerman. Always being so classy... bastard.

But I'd like to add another guy to the Hated Wings list: Paul Ysebaert.

No reason. It's just a goofy name.

Paul Ysebaert. The Rocket Man. I always liked him. He scored a lot of goals for the high-powered early 1990s Wings. But he was evnetually traded to Winnipeg, I think, for Aaron Ward. That was the end of the Rocket Man. I don't think he ever did much of anything again. Spent some time Tampa, I think...

That's it. I am going to get on this Hate Train and make a list of Leafs I hate...

[Maple Leafs]

Count me in among those who loved Kocur. Good, solid guy. As tough as Probert without all the baggage.

Now, since we know Kocur and Clark were cousins, can you name the third NHL tough guy who hailed from Kelvington, Sask?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Here's the list...

Dave Andreychuk. I only hated him with the Leafs. He's just a big, soft player who
scores 98% of his goals from 5 feet from the net. He was always around.

Ed Beflour. Hawks, Stars, that was enough of Crazy Eddie.

Wade Belak. He's just stupid.

Bill Berg. I hated him. He was in my top 5 most hated. He was annoying and had stupid hair.

Nikolai Borchsvesky. I've said enough about this turd.

Garth Butcher. I hated him too. Ugliest man in the NHL for a time which is fitting given his name. Mainly hated him from his St. Louis days.

Tie Domi. Hated him from his Ranger days and his feud with Probert. He's very stupid. But I can't say I hate him now.

Dave Ellet. Blech.

Anders Eriksson. I hated that meatball when he was with the Wings. "I am too full of chocolates!"

Mike Foligno. That little hop thing he did after he scored was so lame. He had a stupid helmet too and a funny nose.

Gary Leeman. I hated Gary Leeman.

Sylvain Lefebrve. No love for Sylvain.

Bryan Marchment. 'Nuff said.

Dmitri Mironiv. He's a soft chicken.

Felix Potvin. He's a Wing killer.

Mats Sundin. Big, dirty Swede.

That's most of 'em...

There are Leafs I like though: Iafrate, Gilmour, Tucker, Corson, Roberts, Nieuwendyke, McCabe, Leetch, Zezel, and quite a few others.

I find it hard to really hate the Leafs. I associate them with CBC/Hockey Night In Canada, the Original Six, all those good things. If the Leafs were still in the Norris division, I would certainly hate them much, much, much more. This is a guarantee.

My most hated teams in chronological order:
Chicago Blackhawks
San Jose Sharks
Dallas Stars
Colorado Avalanche

Colorado has held the title for the longest, going on 8 years now...

Ok, no more hate! H_B is all about the LOVE!

[Simms]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Here's the list...

Dave Andreychuk. I only hated him with the Leafs. He's just a big, soft player who
scores 98% of his goals from 5 feet from the net. He was always around.

Ed Beflour. Hawks, Stars, that was enough of Crazy Eddie.

Wade Belak. He's just stupid.

Bill Berg. I hated him. He was in my top 5 most hated. He was annoying and had stupid hair.

Nikolai Borchsvesky. I've said enough about this turd.

Garth Butcher. I hated him too. Ugliest man in the NHL for a time which is fitting given his name. Mainly hated him from his St. Louis days.

Tie Domi. Hated him from his Ranger days and his feud with Probert. He's very stupid. But I can't say I hate him now.

Dave Ellet. Blech.

Anders Eriksson. I hated that meatball when he was with the Wings. "I am too full of chocolates!"

Mike Foligno. That little hop thing he did after he scored was so lame. He had a stupid helmet too and a funny nose.

Gary Leeman. I hated Gary Leeman.

Sylvain Lefebrve. No love for Sylvain.

Bryan Marchment. 'Nuff said.

Dmitri Mironiv. He's a soft chicken.

Felix Potvin. He's a Wing killer.

Mats Sundin. Big, dirty Swede.

I'm a life-long Leaf fan, and *I* hate(d) probably half the guys on that list.

And I won't pretend he belongs in the same class of respect as Sakic/Yzerman, but I've never been able to understand why people dislike Sundin. He's about the quietest, most unassuming "superstar" you could think of....and when's he ever been a "dirty" player?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Dave Andreychuk. I only hated him with the Leafs. He's just a big, soft player who scores 98% of his goals from 5 feet from the net. He was always around.

Pretty accurate description, although I'm not sure why you'd hate him. By the way, when did he become a center? He was the prototype winger, and now I flip on the TV and he's a defensive center and faceoff specialist. Isn't anyone else mystified by this?

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Ed Beflour. Hawks, Stars, that was enough of Crazy Eddie.

I hated him too before he came to the Leafs.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Wade Belak. He's just stupid.

Yeah.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Bill Berg. I hated him. He was in my top 5 most hated. He was annoying and had stupid hair.

I love Bill Berg. He was the ultimate pest. He could drive the other team crazy, but not in that cheap-shotting Cluade Lemieux way. I love the fact that you hate him. Billy rules.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Nikolai Borchsvesky. I've said enough about this turd.

Didn't he score some sort of big goal against you guys once?

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Garth Butcher. I hated him too. Ugliest man in the NHL for a time which is fitting given his name. Mainly hated him from his St. Louis days.

I hate him too. Rule of thumb: any defenceman who comes to the Leafs and wears number 55 will suck. Berehowsky, Butcher, Murphy, Jackman, Berehowsky again. Only Markov has escaped the curse.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Tie Domi. Hated him from his Ranger days and his feud with Probert. He's very stupid. But I can't say I hate him now.

I can understand people hating him, but I think this is the part where I'm obligated to point out that he's actually a great guy who does more charity work than any other Toronto athelete.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Dave Ellet. Blech.

I've never heard of anyone hating Dave Ellett. Weird.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Anders Eriksson. I hated that meatball when he was with the Wings. "I am too full of chocolates!"

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Mike Foligno. That little hop thing he did after he scored was so lame. He had a stupid helmet too and a funny nose.

Leaf fans love Foligno. Agreed on the nose, though. Fun Red Wing trivia: Foligno was the first star of the first game in Joe Louis arena.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Gary Leeman. I hated Gary Leeman.

Leaf fans did too until the Gilmour trade.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Sylvain Lefebrve. No love for Sylvain.

See Dave Ellett.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Bryan Marchment. 'Nuff said.

Everyone hates Bryan Marchement. It's a requirement for being a hockey fan. I remember back in the days of the Leafs/Hawks rivalry when Marchement was running around like a punk, taking out guys' knees, and hiding behind a big face mask because of some facial injury. Finally Wendel got tired of him, slammed him down on the ice and started popping the straps off his mask one at a time. Manson tried to help out but got taken out by Gilmour(!). The refs eventually got in before Clark could kill him, but for a minute there Marchement looked like he was staring death in the face. I think he peed his pants.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Dmitri Mironiv. He's a soft chicken.

True. Mironov was so soft that Pat Burns didn't use him in the 1993 playoff run. The Leafs went with five defenceman for something like 19 straight playoff games. Bizarre.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Felix Potvin. He's a Wing killer.

You the man, Felix.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Mats Sundin. Big, dirty Swede.

Dirty? Shurg.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

There are Leafs I like though: Iafrate, Gilmour, Tucker, Corson, Roberts, Nieuwendyke, McCabe, Leetch, Zezel, and quite a few others.

Wait, you hate Dave Ellett and Sylvain Lefvebre, but you like Tucker and Corson? Inconceivable...

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Wait, you hate Dave Ellett and Sylvain Lefvebre, but you like Tucker and Corson? Inconceivable...

Lefvebre is a Colorado thing. Ellet is just... Dull. I dunno. He's like white toast. Blah. Just never liked him at all. Too dull, boring.

Corson and Tucker. Well, they are deeply annoying and can be bratty and selfish, but the way I look at it, I would love to have them on my team. Maybe not Corson at this point. I think he's pretty much done.

That's all I got.

[Simms]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Ellet is just... Dull. I dunno. He's like white toast. Blah. Just never liked him at all. Too dull, boring.

Oh, I could tell you some stories about Dave Ellett that might change your mind.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Simms

Oh, I could tell you some stories about Dave Ellett that might change your mind.

Please do! Share!!

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Simms

Oh, I could tell you some stories about Dave Ellett that might change your mind.

Why do I have a feeling Cliff Fletcher's wife is going to figure in prominently here...

[Simms]

Well, it's more like *a* story, but let's just say the man enjoys his Labatts (shocking, I know).

We were both guests at the same wedding, and as the reception dragged on to about 3 a.m. the race for "drunkest guest" was a dead heat between him and my younger brother (my brother, however, had passed out in a booth for a couple of hours at one point before finding his second wind, so he loses points there...Ellett never stopped).

The sheer quantity of alcohol was impressive enough, but he was loud and uproariously funny and kept everybody entertained for most of the night....ranting, joking, you name it. I suppose there's nothing particularly unique about any of this (it's a typically Canadian experience ), but at any rate, he was certainly anything but dull and boring.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Simms

Well, it's more like *a* story, but let's just say the man enjoys his Labatts (shocking, I know).

We were both guests at the same wedding, and as the reception dragged on to about 3 a.m. the race for "drunkest guest" was a dead heat between him and my younger brother (my brother, however, had passed out in a booth for a couple of hours at one point before finding his second wind, so he loses points there...Ellett never stopped).

The sheer quantity of alcohol was impressive enough, but he was loud and uproariously funny and kept everybody entertained for most of the night....ranting, joking, you name it. I suppose there's nothing particularly unique about any of this (it's a typically Canadian experience ), but at any rate, he was certainly anything but dull and boring.

Based on the evidence presented before the court... H_B has removed Dave Ellet from his "Leafs He Hates" lists. Congrats, Dave!

[Simms]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Why do I have a feeling Cliff Fletcher's wife is going to figure in prominently here...

Nah...I don't have first-hand knowledge of anything *that* juicy.

[Draft Dodger]

I often use the name "Garth the Butcher" for D&D or online games. Other sports names I've used is Thane Gash, Reggie the Tongue and Terry the Porter (for MMORPG mules), but Garth the Butcher is my favorite.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Johnny, your dad hates Steve Yzerman??? That's pure insanity. How can you hate Steve Yzerman?? Even at the peak of my hatred of Forces of Darkness(tm), when my hatred was a perfect hatred, pure and focused, I never hated Joe Sakic. I found it impossible, regardless of him scoring game-winning goals/series-clinching goals against the Wings. As for the rest of those bumbs...

I really dont know why he hates him...I actually have alot of respect for Yzerman....playing his whole career for one team....playing for team Canada whenever he can......A long time captain......Yzerman can play on my team anytime......that said....My Dad just doesnt like him....he's too "shifty"...whatever that means....

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Paul Ysebaert.....Spent some time Tampa, I think...

He was Tampa's first Captain.

[bbor]

This thread gets greater by the moment

ML...That 3rd player fromKelvington is on the tip of my tongue but i can't spit it out...PLEEAAASSSEE put me out of my misery.

I'm glad you enjoyed our little fun game we played without you last night HB

Leaf i hate......Laurie Boschman......Antropov......Jaime Mccoun......Ric Natress....'Giveaway' Gill...Jim Benning......Gary Nylund...Bill Derlago....

Wow...i hate a lot of Leafs


Thing is...i hate these guys mostly cause they suck nads.

[Simms]

I'd agree with pretty much all of your list, bbor...with the possible exception of Antropov (but he's rapidly playing himself onto that list).

Additions...

John Kordic -- with all due respect to the deceased, he a) was a waste of space as a player, b) cost us a young Russ Courtnall, and c) had the gall to wear #27.

Tom Fergus -- Cost us Scott Niedermayer (though I console myself with the fact that, had the Leafs kept that pick, they no doubt would have selected somebody entirely different, and who would have busted inside of two seasons).

Peter Ing -- even at their height of suckitude, I can't think of a worse goalie to don the blue and white. At least we got Grant Fuhr for him (well, and Vinny Damphousse).

Dan Daoust -- his name always bugged me. And I'd get him confused with the brand of skates (I had a pair).

Rick Vaive -- loved him as a player, but for the love of God, get him off the TV/radio.

Mirko Frycer -- just generally pretty useless. Though most of the Leafs of that era were.

I'm sure I'll think of more, but those are the ones that come immediately to mind.

Faves.... Eddie Olcyk, Mark Osborne (and Leeman as long as the GEM line was intact...otherwise, I hated him), Allan Bester, Dougie (duh), Wendel, Gary Valk, Mike Gartner, Stumpy...again, I'm sure there's more.

[bbor]

Simms.....Your Tom Fergus reference reminded me of another Tom......the one that cost us Lindros ( not that it was a bad thing in retrospect) ...

Tom Kurvers...what a dud.

[Simms]

Actually, that was the Tom I was thinking of. And he didn't technically cost us Lindros....at the time of the trade, everybody figured the Leafs for #1 overall the next year (Lindros' draft year). As it was, they finished with the 5th pick...where NJ took Niedermayer.

[Johnny93g]

Leafs I didnt like....Hate is too strong of a word...afterall, they were Leafs

Per Gustaffsson
Dmitri Mironov
Craig Wolanian
Kris King
Shayne Corson...cuz of last year....
Berard....after he left us


My favourite Leafs
Ken Wregget...I loved him
Clarky
Nathan Dempsey!!!!!
John Cullen....can't explain this one....
chucky
Folingo
Sundin
Berard....pre-accident
Mogilny
John Anderson....i see him in old games on Leafs TV, and I love him
Rocky Saginaw....same as Anderson
and the king....the greatest.......Killer himself...DOUGY GILMOUR......

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Simms

Actually, that was the Tom I was thinking of. And he didn't technically cost us Lindros....at the time of the trade, everybody figured the Leafs for #1 overall the next year (Lindros' draft year). As it was, they finished with the 5th pick...where NJ took Niedermayer.

Somehow i would have felt betterif it had cost us Lindros as right now i would much rather have Niedermeyer.

[Maple Leafs]

The Tom Kurvers pick ended up being #3 (the Leafs finished second-last but expansion San Jose got the second pick).

But it's actually not unfair to say that it cost them Lindros, since they only avoided finishing last by making a panic deal with the Nords. They sent a prospect (Scott Pearson?) and two second rounders to Quebec for Michel Petit, Aaron Broten and Lucien Deblois. Rotten trade, but Floyd Smith knew he had to do something to avoid last place. Without that deal, the Leafs probably do finish behind the Nords.

Two areas where I differ from most Leaf fans:

- I love Todd Gill. Forget the "giveaway" crap. Sure he was shaky in the early days when he probably shouldn't have been in the NHL. But the loss to the Hawks wasn't his fault and he didn't screw up any more than the other kids they kept throwing out there. And after those first few years he turned into a solid two-way defenceman, not to mention the sort of heart-and-soul guy every team needs. The enduring Todd Gill moment was when Danny Marois decided to get uppity with Kocur, who was ready to kill him when Gill stepped in and saved his life by fighting Kocur to a draw. Todd Gill can play on my team any day.

- I defend the Kordic trade. Yes, obviously in hindsight it didn't work out. But Courtnall was a floater who wasn't doing anything in Toronto, and the Leafs were getting pushed around by every Norris team every night. So they traded talent and potential for toughness. Sure Courtnall blossomed, but he wouldn't have in Toronto. Is this trade really all that different from the deal the Leafs made a few years later when they sent Marios to the Isles for Baumgartner? The only difference is Marois kept playing the way he did in Toronto, and Bomber had his head on straight. Result: Baumgartner played for years in Toronto and Marois was out of the league. You win some, you lose some. These things happen. At the time, Stellick identified a weakness and paid the price to address it.

[Simms]

I stand corrected on the draft position...thanks, ML.

And while the giveaway was heartbreaking, I'm with you re: Todd Gill....I always liked him. Solid, solid d-man. And IIRC, the Leafs and Hawks were both horribly horribly bad that season...but one of them had to make the playoffs. All the giveaway did was save the Leafs what would have likely been a humiliating sweep in the first round. Was it really *that* big a deal?