Werewolf LXXXVIII: Game Thread

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

However, take a look at the amount of time that elapsed from when RealDeal first put out the charge and when you responded. RealDeal never outlined a case despite multiple inquiries from me to do so.

In the end, do what you guys think you have to do. I'm going to argue against a vote on me because it is good for the village to get demons, not villagers.

I think I'm in the position today that you were with PurdueBrad yesterday, where you thought he was seeing something that wasn't there but did not doubt his intentions. Well, I do not think that you guys are running some kind of nefarious plot. I have zero reason to think that you are demons. So that leaves me to conclude that you are just wrong.

I don't see how the 30 minutes between the time when Real Deal put his post out and when I got back here and started responding is unfavorable to me at all considering the nearly 90 minutes you failed to respond to my posts until just recently.

Once again, I think this is a rather silly thing to try to base your innocence on to try to sway voters.

And this also is nothing like the case yesterday with PurdueBrad, where I actually caught his clues right away, we discussed it among the angels right away and throughout the day the best way to handle it. You on the other hand chose to either purposely ignore the hints or you didn't see them (which would be a first for you most likely) and instead pushed some conversation and threw a half-hearted vote out his way as well.

[hoopsguy]

For what it is worth, if you are out at the end of the hour then we probably won't have time for a back-and-forth as I'm having to move onto another conference. I'll defintely be around tonight for anyone who is around to discuss.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

For what it is worth, if you are out at the end of the hour then we probably won't have time for a back-and-forth as I'm having to move onto another conference. I'll defintely be around tonight for anyone who is around to discuss.

Fair enough, but once again, I take offense to the charge that I did not allow you an opportunity to respond to my points as I've been here a solid 2 hours since bringing them up.

I also will be here at times tonight, but not dedicated here as I was today, as I'll be sneaking in glances at the board when my wife is not looking. I have a conference call at 6pm ET, then likely dinner and some time with my daughter. I should be back some point between 8:30 and 9 however.

[Alan T]

Bottom line, no you have not stood up and waved a sign during the game saying "Hey guys, I am a demon". But no one else has done so either. Since there has not been a demon yet with risk of a lynch vote (Hannibal vs Telle day 1 and Telle vs RealDeal day 2), the voting behavior does not tell us a ton either.

So you have to go to the next level and look at player behavior, how they voted, when they voted, why they voted. What the conversations they made or tried to make were. I illustrated my points earlier why you were bugging me based on how you were behaving and how it is 180 degrees different from your normal play as a "Vanilla Villager". So based on your deviation from standard behavior, you seem like a quality choice to consider for the vote at least.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Pass is starting to make me scratch my head. Following Telle's "reveal" he was all for lynching her and tried to get me to switch my vote to her. He couldn't vote that day because he had already submitted his work actions, but why not vote for her on the next day? If you're so sure that her reveal was fake, why put in the early work actions again to handicap yourself from voting? I understand needing to get your actions in early in case you can't check in prior to deadline, but I would at least leave myself the option to vote if I need to. Place a work action and keep your second action in reserve. Saying that you think Telle was lying and then to not vote for her (after trying to get someone to switch their vote to her the previous day) or even vote at all, is very odd to me.

I'm back! I read this at work, but couldn't post, but wanted to reply. I'm going to answer this next.

[Danny]

Catching up, will reply to any posts along the way I see.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

RealDeal - DaddyTorgo (380), PackerFanatic (397), Telle (403), Telle (403), jeheinze (437), Jonathan (536)

Telle - Danny (442), RealDeal (458), RealDeal (458), RealDeal (458), hoops (495), KWhit (521), Purdue (527), Purdue (527), Alan (538), Alan (538), Render (543)


Walls - Pass(282)

Carpentry - Danny(443), Packer(339), Tyrith(419), Tyrith(419), jackal (469), KWHit (521), Jonathan (564), CR (567)

artwork - Hoops(315), Jackal(318), Daddy T (512), Render (543), CR (567)

Roof – Pass


OK, that is the final tally from yesterday. I'm going to work on putting together the old "vote/unvote" grid to see what jumps out. I know RendeR was on RD early and was in position to have the "longest held vote" for the tie-breaker before he switched.

Tie-breaker is not longest held vote, its mean vote. So if the votes are Telle then 5 for Render and then 4 for Telle, Render would be lynched.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm not sure what the meta-gamey comment means. CR worked on the walls and left early, but I don't think that makes him more likely to be the saboteur. And I know you can't respond now, but maybe someone else can take the torch for you. Anyway, I don't think we can rule out two single saboteurs, or someone faking one work but succeeding the second time. So I'm looking at CR, PB, RD, Telle, RendeR, and Alan.

I'm still suspicious of Telle's reveal. It was made SO close to deadline, it's like she was hoping no one would be around to counter. And it's not a 24-hour clock, so she had no chance of avoiding a wolf kill by waiting. Also, in Cathedral I there were some rules where people couldn't say things -- for example, last game, cronin was Gabriel, and knew that Anxiety was Lucifer, but couldn't tell me (the other angel). There was some other similar rule, which cronin got penalized for disobeying -- maybe it was that he couldn't attack Lucifer? I dunno. Anyway, it could be that the real Gabriel can't say he is Gabriel. Also, Telle said she was St. Gabriel. I'm no Christian, but it's just Gabriel, right? An angel can't be a saint, can he? Then again, BK is no Christian either, so if there's a mistake there, it could be his. On the other hand, I don't recall hearing St. Gabriel when I was an angel last game.

To defend Telle a little, she's probably still alive because the demons aren't that interested in killing Gabriel. Last time, Lucifer knew who Gabriel was, so I imagine he was not allowed to kill him. Plus, the demons want a 1:1 ratio with villagers, so even when I was going nutcakes defending cronin last game, he was fine getting lynched, as long as we didn't lynch a villager. This is something to consider, though -- if we're near endgame and clueless on who to lynch, it might be better to lynch Gabriel instead of a villager. Last game the angels were sorta on our side -- this game we don't know.

Anyway, I'll be following along at work but can't post, and I'm not sure if I will be home by deadline today.

WORK ON WALLS
WORK ON WALLS

If anyone wants to double up on me, I understand.

This is post 282, by me, bolding done just now. Why did I put in an action right away, locking myself in? Like I said, I wasn't sure if I would be able to post again in time for the deadline. I ended up getting back before, but was not sufficiently caught up. In my next post, I will attempt to demonstrate that when I posted this (first thing in the morning yesterday), there was not much heat on Telle, so a vote for her risked being a throwaway. PLUS, this post itself shows pretty clearly IMO that I was leaning toward not believing Telle, but not sure of it.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I'm confused Danny, I thought discussion was leaning towards the fact that the demons likely knew Telle was the cultist. Wouldn't they be less inclined to vote for her?

Pretty much what Alan said. I didn't have much time to go over things too closely before I left, but I think it is likely there is a demon with a vote on Telle.

The others probably went to work like Alan said.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Trying to tie together various actions of unknowns and knowns , one thing that jumped out at me was:

Telle as the cultist knew who the demons were, the demons did not know who the cultist was. When there were suddenly two different people stating that Telle was lying, the demons had to assume that she was the Cultist. Did Telle try to signal anywhere previously? Was there any lines drawn previously?

Day one, the first vote thrown out there was Packerfanatic's vote on Hannibal. Seemingly innocent, first vote no big deal. No one knew Hannibal was the seer, no reason for a big push. Suddenly the second vote of the day also was real quickly thrown on Hannibal by Telle as well.

It was a day that likely was going to get less votewise as many people had already stated they likely were going to use both actions on building instead of voting. So perhaps only 4-5 votes would be needed for a lynch, and Telle's second vote real quick put Hannibal in increasing danger.

The quick second vote on someone doesn't really make much sense for a wolf to do nor a villager to do in most games, and in most games trying to lynch someone from being the second vote on a player ends up in just lynching a villager. This was different however in that Telle was the cultist and possibly was looking for ways to send messages to the wolves.

So what if there was a reason for the quick second vote? It would tell two things, obviously as we know Hannibal is not a demon, but would it tell something to Packerfanatic as well?

Lets look at how Packerfanatic then responded in day 2 when Telle was on the line and two people revealed that she was not Gabriel. Packer was a real quick second vote on RealDeal in a move that didn't really make much sense. We already discussed Render and DaddyTorgo's play there in more depth, but Packerfanatic also either made the same mistake or had some other reason for doing so..


So yeah, it could be completely coincidental how Packer and Telle paired up not only in votes but in how they acted, but there could also be something more to it. Just throwing another name out for discussion here.

Very interesting.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

In my opinion, the whole Telle reveal was fishy as hell.

Originally Posted by RendeR

Not really when you consider there would be not one, but two people who KNOW she's lying if she fake revealed.

Originally Posted by Danny

At least two, but I think 3. I'm guessing based on the last game, there are three angels.

Originally Posted by Lathum

well, it may be a little meta-gamey, but CR picked walls, left early and then we fell 2 units short on the walls.

PurdueBrad was the other person who used both votes for walls.

So either one of them sabatouged us or there are 2 demons who each casted a single vote and sabatouged us.

I think CR is a good place to start looking tomorrow.

Here's some posts between the end of the day we lynched Hannibal and the beginning of the next day. I figured the writing on the wall was saying that a Telle lynch was not going to happen. And I don't think it would have, if not for DT and RealDeal. I *might* have been able to drive a Telle lynch, or at least drive us close enough to make it interesting and learn something, but not when I wasn't sure I'd be home in time for deadline, let alone missing the bulk of the daytime!

Next, my take on some top suspects.

[DaddyTorgo]

fyi everyone - I am on duty tonight for transporting my brother to and fro some stuff. I won't be on until after 9pm. will try to keep up on the thread on my phone but not sure how well I will be able to or if I can post

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

It is not as much about what we want you to do as it is about what you have already done.

Your reaction yesterday to PurdueBrad was the first thing that tipped me off. I don't know how many people caught his hints (I don't really need a rollcall of those who did and those who didn't), but you are a pretty bright player and to react the way you did to his voting of me seemed off (and was actually opposite of the way I reacted based on the same information seemingly). I have a hard time believing that you missed his hints completely.

Your reaction to the Telle situation yesterday felt to me like someone who was hedging their bets. Really in a win-win situation, you argued the correct side (the mathematical probability of Telle being good), yet did not really commit to it until the "juicy" spot for a vote. As previously discussed the location of your and Kwhit votes both seemed pretty demonish from my point of view, especially for someone who seemed to have decided on their stake in the issue well before the actual vote was cast.

The way that today has played out where you have presented a boatload of information without providing hardly any direct opinions on players feels pretty much like a lawyer trying to bury the opposing side in overload of data so the important pieces kind of get filtered out in the mass storm at some point. It feels very similar to how you have played as a bad guy in the past.

As a good guy, when you do not have an important role you tend to play agressively. You tend to want to push the vote to get people moving even in a game that requires other actions that might conflict with the need for voting (See Spawn 3 game). In this game you have not been taking a hard stance on any vote, and often (as seen in both day 1 and day 2 and even somewhat today) seem to be begging your way out of the vote in a sense to allow others to do the work for you. If you truly did not have a very important role, historically you have used that advantage to try to take a chance, to stir things up to try to see if you can get a pulse on people. That is even more important then ever in a game with the seer already dead and no bodyguard.

So it is not really as much what we want you to do to prove yourself, even though if you have some way of doing so I am all ears.. but more how you have reacted almost every step of this game thus far.

I'll start with hoopsy, since that's the most contentious. My initial impression is that this is typical WW play from Alan -- he usually has some kind of tunnel-vision toward hoops.

Your first point is that he didn't react to PB's hint. I'm willing to give him a pass on that, since no one else followed him on the vote. I think BK's post might have helped to throw people off the radar on it. I know you didn't want a role call, but you can probably tell from my posts this morning that I didn't pick up on it, either.

Your second point is his reaction to the Telle situation. I think this reaction applies to over half of the players in the game -- myself included since I wasn't posting for most of it (but trust me, I was wringing my hands while reading it). Probably the only ones NOT sitting and waiting were Render and RealDeal -- although I think heinz and JE had early votes on RealDeal in, too.

You accuse hoops of posting info with no opinions. I think you're holding him to a higher standard here than everyone else. I think post 644 of his does a decent job of giving some opinions, though I'm not sure what he's trying to say about me in it.

[Danny]

Well, the choices for today look like Jeheinz, Hoopsguy, Pass, Kwhit, or PF.

My vote on Kwhit does not seem likely to be followed up, so he'll probably be out. None of the four remaining strike me as someone I should trust, so my vote is open for any of them.

Still, unless a better case is made for one of the others, I'll likely be voting Hoopsguy because if it's basically a crapshoot between the four, I'd rather see the angels get to use their actions to help us elsewhere.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

...so why would Pass skip a wall and go to something that can't be worked on until the walls are done?

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I was going to switch to Telle after the events of yesterday unfolded, but two things were against me:

A) She was already going down, and my vote was not really needed to begin with

B) I was under the impression that unvoting voided your work, and when I found out otherwise, it was already too late.

I was just thrown off by how quickly RD was jumping on the Telle bandwagon, but I now obviously see why he was doing so, and my thinkings were off-base.

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I am willing to work on walls and it will get done.

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

hoops and I are working on the walls, so they will be done tomorrow.

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I don't know what I believe yet - but if you ARE a demon and fake your work, then we will still complete the work, as I will not be faking.

Next up is PF. Maybe I'm more tuned in to him since he's been coming after me. His first post here throws some accusation my way on something which is pretty obvious IMO that I didn't do -- if I "switched" it would have been in the thread. There's also no post count by my roof work -- it's definitely something done TO me, not BY me.

His next post is some excuse-making about why he voted for RealDeal. Since Telle seemed to think this about the rules, I give him a pass, but it does seem like he's setting himself up to have an excuse for being on the wrong side of that one.

The next post don't inspire any kind of logical argument in me -- they just give me the creeps. He just seems like he REALLY wants us to believe that he'll finish the walls, so the rest of us don't need to worry. Note that when it was just me yesterday, I made no such posturing -- I even welcomed people doubling up on my work.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Next up is PF. Maybe I'm more tuned in to him since he's been coming after me. His first post here throws some accusation my way on something which is pretty obvious IMO that I didn't do -- if I "switched" it would have been in the thread. There's also no post count by my roof work -- it's definitely something done TO me, not BY me.

His next post is some excuse-making about why he voted for RealDeal. Since Telle seemed to think this about the rules, I give him a pass, but it does seem like he's setting himself up to have an excuse for being on the wrong side of that one.

The next post don't inspire any kind of logical argument in me -- they just give me the creeps. He just seems like he REALLY wants us to believe that he'll finish the walls, so the rest of us don't need to worry. Note that when it was just me yesterday, I made no such posturing -- I even welcomed people doubling up on my work.

Some good points here about you seemingly not being responsible for the change in workplace.

[Danny]

Anyone have a summary of actions used for what so far and actions remaining?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Man, this is one of those games where I just feel so less informed than everyone else and I can't catch up. I totally screwed the pooch yesterday letting my emotions of RD's tact get the better of sound judgement.

All I really know if Alan and RD are angels and it's not being disputed. Seeing as that I'm a villager and they're the good guys, I'm inclined to vote with them today.

If work needs to be done, someone just clue me in as to where. I'd be happy to be one of the wall workers (we need 3, right?)

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

First, it's worth noting that you and Alan are the two people I'm putting the most trust in this game (I said that earlier).

With that said though, I just want to make sure I have this right. Basically you want all of us to vote for hoops, but you guys don't want to do it and you don't want to tell us why we should.

I'm not ruling out that I'd still do it, but uhm, yeah that seems a tad needy

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Vote hoopsguy

heinz, front and center! I've been suspicious of him most of the game, but looking back, I couldn't find much reason why. His first post here, basically forgoing his vote for the angels, struck me. Then when the angels tell him what to do, he complains about it, but does it anyway. You can already tell from my first two dossiers that I'd rather vote for PF than hoops, so I'm not going to be following the angels, but heinz rates higher than hoops in terms of suspicion as well.

[Passacaglia]

Next up is Passacaglia. Total trust there. I will not be voting for him.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Next up is Passacaglia. Total trust there. I will not be voting for him.

Seems like you two are in bed together, I don't like this one bit. I may have to split my votes amongst each of you.

[Danny]

Hopefully we'll have some more discussion over the next couple hours. It's been really dead for having 14 people still alive since I got home

[Passacaglia]

KWhit I pretty much have no read on. He was on the right side with RealDeal and Telle, but if I recall, the vote was a runaway then, so it's not saying much.

[RendeR]

I got nothin...

[Passacaglia]

Out for the night.

VOTE PACKERFANATIC
VOTE PACKERFANATIC

[Danny]

Any chance Pass volunteered to work on the walls because he knew that a fellow demon had the ability to change his work?

[Danny]

I think I am leaning against voting PF or Kwhit now with a choice between Hoops, Pass and Jeheinz

[Tyrith]

Sigh, this sucks.

[Danny]

And what's interesting is all of Jeheinz, Hoops, and Pass are out for the evening, so I doubt we'll be getting anything else to go on.

[Danny]

Unvote Kwhit
Vote Hoopsguy
Vote Hoopsguy

Again, I might change this if there is more info available, but as it stands, I'd rather the angels get to use some of their actions for things other than voting.

[Danny]

Chief, Jonathan, what are your thoughts?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

The piece I'm really struggling with here is that Alan + RealDeal both seem pretty convinced of the rightness of this action but do not have an argument and are not committing votes to it. Don't get me wrong, I do not want votes today, but it is not like we are having a two way conversation either where they are discussing their suspicion. That might allow me to persuade angels and villagers alike to look in other directions.

Heck, I've changed my mind on my earlier vote. I'll guess that the demons are actually eager to jump on me in this spot. Heinz can always fall back on the "my schedule didn't allow me to get back and change" when it shows up wrong. So I've now convinced myself that he is a more likely demon than The Jackal.

UNVOTE THE JACKAL
VOTE JEHEINZ72

Not sure if you're coming back again tonight, but you had thrown out The Jackal's name a few times more of a namedrop than any kind of real heat but as if trying to set up a case for him and your first instinct seemed to be to vote for him.

You then changed your mind to Jeheinz and I don't quite get why. I would love to understand more reasoning behind it. It seems a flimsy excuse at best. Several times during the day people had made the comment that they were likely going to follow the angels in voting today. You chose to single out Jeheinz however for actually throwing down the vote because he had to leave.

I think it is pretty well known that Jeheinz has a certain schedule and he likely won't be back to defend himself the rest of the evening. There also doesn't seem to be much else to your reasoning other than retaliation on your part.

My gut instinct here is that this vote feels more like a vote for someone who already has their vote on you so as to not drive someone else to vote for you as well (such as the jackal who could move his vote), or one of the other people leading in vote counts. My feelings are that this was just a temporary vote holder on someone that couldn't hurt you any further until you got back later to see where you needed to move your vote to try to save yourself.

Is there more to it then that?

[hoopsguy]

My thoughts are that you are on the wrong guy, although I understand your reasoning for doing so. I should be around for the last hour so I'll be happy to answer any questions from now until then.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Not sure if you're coming back again tonight, but you had thrown out The Jackal's name a few times more of a namedrop than any kind of real heat but as if trying to set up a case for him and your first instinct seemed to be to vote for him.

You then changed your mind to Jeheinz and I don't quite get why. I would love to understand more reasoning behind it. It seems a flimsy excuse at best. Several times during the day people had made the comment that they were likely going to follow the angels in voting today. You chose to single out Jeheinz however for actually throwing down the vote because he had to leave.

I think it is pretty well known that Jeheinz has a certain schedule and he likely won't be back to defend himself the rest of the evening. There also doesn't seem to be much else to your reasoning other than retaliation on your part.

My gut instinct here is that this vote feels more like a vote for someone who already has their vote on you so as to not drive someone else to vote for you as well (such as the jackal who could move his vote), or one of the other people leading in vote counts. My feelings are that this was just a temporary vote holder on someone that couldn't hurt you any further until you got back later to see where you needed to move your vote to try to save yourself.

Is there more to it then that?

My thought is that when I'm a wolf I'm happy to go with the flow of the villagers, try to adapt to the play of the guys who are trusted. When I'm a wolf I don't have the worst voting record and I try not to have the best. I want to be as much in the middle as far as public review goes, and hope that my in thread reputation helps me avoid lynch for one more day. I think Heinz is playing it much the same way in this case.

It is more of an instinctive vote than one that is finely reasoned, and I normally like to rely on logic more than instinct. But I do not have any strong mathematical play to make. I know that you are starting to get the movement you asked for on me. As a "cleared angel" you are going to likely get a pass on it when it is wrong. And that is fine in the context of this game ... I'm not trying to call for some kind of run on the angels. But I would like for us to get a demon and I would like to be alive to be part of it.

Do you want me to bother responding to the posts on the time/accusation stuff? I had several appointments come up this afternoon that I was not able to break away from, even though it would have been convenient for me to do so. I'm not going to try and grind an axe about being able to face my acccusors earlier if you are here now.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Do you want me to bother responding to the posts on the time/accusation stuff? I had several appointments come up this afternoon that I was not able to break away from, even though it would have been convenient for me to do so. I'm not going to try and grind an axe about being able to face my acccusors earlier if you are here now.

I pretty much said my piece about the time discussion from earlier. I fully understand that people can not be here all of the time. My only point was that I was here and you were not, so it was a bit unfair to call me out for not being here when that was never the case. That said, I would rather keep the next hour of our discussion focused on more game related topics then something like that anyhows. I also would love for the next hour to not only be a back and forth between you and I as it helps me learn nothing about anyone else regardless if I am right or wrong about you.


Now back to the topic on hand, so you feel that a wolf is more likely to jump on a "poor" vote choice then a different option so you are voting for Jeheinz here? Does this mean that you also feel this way about the previous few days votes where as far as the wolves knew Telle, Hannibal and Real Deal were all poor vote choices? Your vote on Jeheinz seems to suggest that you believe a demon would be out front voting early rather then trying to blend in later, or by not voting at all and instead doing work somewhere?

[Alan T]

I think it is only fair after the jeheinz vote question is answered I'll step back a bit and let you try to plead your case with the others. There are plenty of people here now who have not voted that I would love to see in the discussion instead of me dominating it.

You are excellent at talking your way out of jams when you are a bad guy, so it is only sporting for me to give you a chance with everyone here. I'll still be around and will chime in if I feel the need to though.

[Danny]

I'd also love to see more thoughts/posts from CR, Kwhit, and Jonathan, they have all been very quiet this game overall.

[KWhit]

just landed from a very delayed flight. Can someone give me a quick synopsis?

[KWhit]

What's the basic argument against me?

[Danny]

Real Deal and AlanT are angels. They feel strongly that Hoopsguy is a demon, but don't have a scan or anything like that go back it up. They hope to use their actions for spiritual growth as opposed to voting, but will if necessary to ensure Hoops is lynched. The other candidates from today seem to be Jeheinz, Pass, Packer and you (I orignally voted for you this morning, but you should be safe now)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by KWhit

just landed from a very delayed flight. Can someone give me a quick synopsis?

Kind of tough, everyone has been all over the place. My attempt:

Hoops, jeheinz and packerfanatic all are doing work on the wall, there is only 1 action left to finish however, so that should be completed.

Packerfanatic , Passacaglia and yourself (kwhit) have all been named by several people at times today as people that might get votes. Currently the only votes on you were unvoted however.

RealDeal and myself (two admitted angels) have come out with reasons believeing that we think Hoopsguy is a demon and would like to see a vote on him today but have admitted that it is not based on any fact, but instead our interpretation of his game play thus far.

Hoopsguy is making a case for jeheinz being bad.


That is my attempt at an impartial quick recap as I can...

[KWhit]

any theories on why we still didn't finish the walls?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by KWhit

What's the basic argument against me?

You're pretty much out of the discussion now. My reasoning was I felt there was likely a wolf in the middle to late votes on Telle, all of which were proven good except for you and Hoopsguy.

Still, I'd rather not focus the discussion on you for tonight as you're kind of out the lynch loop right now.

[KWhit]

why do the angels think hoops is bad?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by KWhit

any theories on why we still didn't finish the walls?

Passacaglia's second action on the wall was "moved" to the roof instead. Barkeep stated that his recap was not a mistake so someone moved it. People have brought up that perhaps Passacaglia was happy to work on the wall knowing that would happen however but no one is really gunning too hard at Passacaglia for only that fact alone.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Danny

You're pretty much out of the discussion now. My reasoning was I felt there was likely a wolf in the middle to late votes on Telle, all of which were proven good except for you and Hoopsguy.

Still, I'd rather not focus the discussion on you for tonight as you're kind of out the lynch loop right now.

works for me.

Anybody have a vote count?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by KWhit

why do the angels think hoops is bad?

His play/posting so far. It's nothing concrete. My reasoning for my vote is #1 Hoops was a part of that group I thought there was likely a demon from and #2 if Hoops is the lynch choice without voted needed from the angels, they can use their actions for other things that can help us.

[hoopsguy]

I do think that wolves will want to build a 2+ person separation if they are not part of the separation. It is hard for me to comment too much on Day 1 as I missed a big portion of it down the stretch. But it had the feel of a very slow march - I do not have any sense of how the wolves approached this day without one of their own on the block (seer/cultist).

Day 2 - I have said that I think the wolves would have wanted to avoid making an attention-raising vote on this day. Double work, or early votes that did not change, seem the easiest way to achieve that goal.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Danny

Chief, Jonathan, what are your thoughts?

I am disinclined to think hoops put all that work into that post rundown as a demon. But Alan and Real Deal are proven Angels in my mind. That's what I think.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by KWhit

works for me.

Anybody have a vote count?

Nothing direct, but keeping track of it in my head I think packerfanatic and Hoopsguy are tied for the lead at 3 right now.

[DaddyTorgo]

well i'm back. raging headache but here. quick summary anyone?