The Thread of the 2009-2010 NBA Season

[Neuqua]

Derrick Rose becomes the first Chicago Bull to make the All-Star team since Michael Jordan.

Point guards Deron Williams(notes) of Utah, Chicago's Derrick Rose(notes) and Boston's Rajon Rondo(notes) will make their All-Star Game debuts next month in Dallas, sources said Thursday.

Williams, Rondo and Rose top the list of reserves chosen by the league's coaches to participate in the Feb. 14 game at Cowboys Stadium. The names won't be made official until Thursday night, but Yahoo! Sports has obtained the list of reserves.

Besides Rondo and Rose, the East roster includes Boston's Paul Pierce(notes), Toronto's Chris Bosh(notes), Charlotte's Gerald Wallace(notes) and Atlanta's Joe Johnson(notes) and Al Horford(notes).

The West includes the New Orleans' Chris Paul(notes), the Lakers' Pau Gasol(notes), Oklahoma City's Kevin Durant(notes), Dallas' Dirk Nowitzki(notes), Memphis' Zach Randolph(notes) and Portland's Brandon Roy(notes).

Among the notable candidates left off the team are the Los Angeles Clippers' Chris Kaman(notes), New York's David Lee(notes) and Denver's Chauncey Billups

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

Derrick Rose becomes the first Chicago Bull to make the All-Star team since Michael Jordan.

Glad Rondo made it as well, absolutely deserved it.

[jbergey22]

Im suprised this is Deron's 1st. Hes been a stud for 3 years.

David Lee is underrated. Its sad that AI took his spot.

[Chief Rum]

lol...the coaches are as bad at picking these as the fans.

[Groundhog]

A year ago, who thought we'd see Zach Randolph in an all-star game in 2010?

[Big Fo]

What a great turnaround from Orlando, down 16 at one point but they beat Boston by 2. Howard had a number of nice buckets against Perkins who does such a good job defending him, he had that hook shot going tonight. Lewis had some big buckets including the game winner, maybe this will be the start of him playing like he can more consistently, he's had a bad year, the suspension at the start of the season might be one cause, maybe he misses Turkoglu as well, I dunno. van Gundy said that Gortat and Howard aren't often effective together but it worked great in the fourth quarter tonight.

The strange/worrying thing is that the fourth quarter comeback took place with Williams and Redick in the backcourt for most of the time, Carter had another bad night and Nelson was iffy other than a good scoring run early on. Carter is so frustrating to watch sometimes, forcing bad shots and turning the ball over in such a way that it seems like he's not even paying attention.

It was good to see them get a win against Boston after getting their asses kicked on Christmas, with only four legitimate teams in the East there's a decent chance these two teams will face each other in the playoffs.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

What a great turnaround from Orlando, down 16 at one point but they beat Boston by 2. Howard had a number of nice buckets against Perkins who does such a good job defending him, he had that hook shot going tonight. Lewis had some big buckets including the game winner, maybe this will be the start of him playing like he can more consistently, he's had a bad year, the suspension at the start of the season might be one cause, maybe he misses Turkoglu as well, I dunno. van Gundy said that Gortat and Howard aren't often effective together but it worked great in the fourth quarter tonight.

The strange/worrying thing is that the fourth quarter comeback took place with Williams and Redick in the backcourt for most of the time, Carter had another bad night and Nelson was iffy other than a good scoring run early on. Carter is so frustrating to watch sometimes, forcing bad shots and turning the ball over in such a way that it seems like he's not even paying attention.

It was good to see them get a win against Boston after getting their asses kicked on Christmas, with only four legitimate teams in the East there's a decent chance these two teams will face each other in the playoffs.

I really don't like Carter, and there aren't many athletes I vocally hate. Orlando should just cut him and let him rot in free agency.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

lol...the coaches are as bad at picking these as the fans.

how so ? I don´t see any obvious screwups here. People that didn´t see him play much (he´s on the Grizzlies, so that´s likely the majority ...) will bitch about Randolph, but the guy has not only had an amazing individual season but has really shown a new team-quality. Can´t do much about him being flatfooted and not exactly destined to be a good defender, but ran the floor, rotated, moved the ball.

Maybe Gasol over Kaman is dubious in terms of rewarding the right guy, but from a coaches standpoint ? Gasol is easily a better player than Kaman, numbers don´t tell the story.
Kaman should have gone because of the way he plays (hard, every night) and produces (admirable) and because he has the "better" season by virtue of playing way more games.
But if it´s a question of who is the better player, that´s Gasol quite easily.

Lee over Horford maybe ? Possibly, but Horford has a highly underrated impact on a really good team.
Or over Pierce ? Yeah, possibly. But definitely not an unquestionable truth o anything ...

Roy took some heat for coasting, but has quetly led a heavily depleted Portland squad to a very respectable record.

Billups over Paul and Williams ? Of course Chauncey has turned his play around and has been amazing, but those 2 guys have been just that as well.

Rondo has been the best player for the Celtics for long stretches and now that the numbers measure up with his impact he is an obvious choice.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by whomario

how so ? I don´t see any obvious screwups here. People that didn´t see him play much (he´s on the Grizzlies, so that´s likely the majority ...) will bitch about Randolph, but the guy has not only had an amazing individual season but has really shown a new team-quality. Can´t do much about him being flatfooted and not exactly destined to be a good defender, but ran the floor, rotated, moved the ball.

Maybe Gasol over Kaman is dubious in terms of rewarding the right guy, but from a coaches standpoint ? Gasol is easily a better player than Kaman, numbers don´t tell the story.
Kaman should have gone because of the way he plays (hard, every night) and produces (admirable) and because he has the "better" season by virtue of playing way more games.
But if it´s a question of who is the better player, that´s Gasol quite easily.

My quibble was with leaving Kaman off, so I'll respond to that. Kaman should have been in before Gasol and Randolph (either one).

All Star is not about "better player" (and I don't disagree that Gasol is better, he's a terrific talent). All Star is about who is having the better season.

Gasol actually rates slightly higher than Kaman in most averages this season, better FG%, rebounding average (although Kaman's is hurt a bit playing next to the human vacuum Camby), blocks and assists. Kaman's primary edge right now is scoring. My issue with Gasol over Kaman is that Gasol has missed some significant stretches of the season so far, and IMO, the player who has been there for most of the team's games, in a close comparison, should get the nod over someone who has missed 12-15 games or whatever it is.

Randolph, outside of higher rebounding average, simply is just not having as good of a year as Kaman statistically, and he is much worse than Kaman, defensively. Technically, he got in as a PF, I would guess, but this is an All Star team starting a PF as a C (Stoudemire), and besides, Nowitzki is the obvious "backup PF"--Randolph was clearly was one, if not the, last addition to the team.

Kaman is not only a better player having a better year, he is more or less the lynch pin to the Clippers' offense, as much of the team's offense operates out of the Baron Davis-Kaman inside-outside game. Kaman has essentially morphed into the role Elton Brand had three years ago, expanding his range to consistent 15 footers, and still displaying the various moves he has developed in the post for years. He has also been taking a lot more "money shots", showing confidence in taking a lead role in the team's offense. The Clippers, outside of occasional crapping the bed nights like last night with the Nets, are much better and more consistent this year, and that's despite getting nothing from Blake Griffin and having injury issues with Eric Gordon. Reason? A combination of a more motivated Baron Davis and Kaman elevating his game.

He deserves to be there. The NBA coaches are a joke for putting Randolph (at the very least) there over Kaman.

Kaman was also jobbed two years ago for a spot, although as it turns out, he hurt himself just before the break anyway and would not have been able to play.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Randolph, outside of higher rebounding average, simply is just not having as good of a year as Kaman statistically, and he is much worse than Kaman, defensively.

He deserves to be there. The NBA coaches are a joke for putting Randolph (at the very least) there over Kaman.

Actually, he is having a better year statistically Other than blocks he´s (a little) better in just about every statistical category. Started the year a little slower, but by now it looks like this :

Kaman : 20.2 PPG / 9.1 RPG / 1.3 BPG / 1.8 APG / 3.0 TOPG / 50% FG / 75% FT
Randolph : 21.0 PPG / 11.6 RPG / 0.5 BPG / 2.1 APG / 2.2 TOPG / 50% FG / 80% FT

"advanced" stats :

Kaman : 20.7 PER / 19.9 Opp PER / +- 6.3 / 1.20 PPS
Randolph : 24.8 PER / 18.8 Opp PER / +- 7.3 / 1.26 PPS

minutes are pretty much a wash, randolph plays 40 seconds more a night.


And have you seen him play ? He is immensely important to memphis offensively and actually doesn´t hurt them defensively.

Basically your whole "the Clippers are better because of a great Kaman" could pass for randolph and the Grizzlies as well.

Kaman would have been highly deserving, no question about it. But so is Randolph. Sometimes not all players deserving find a spot.
Just because he has a bad image doesn´t change the fact his play has been amazing and helps the grizzlies a whole lot.


the grizzlies coach should be in the running for COTY as well, having the guts to put iverson on the bench (you can bet the front office and ownership wasn´t happy about that one) and getting Randolph to play up to his talent and give a crap on top of it, getting by with virtually no depth (no injuries help) outside of the starting 5, turn a season around with a team and association that is used to loosing, balancing 4 very good offensive options.
Hell of a job.

[RainMaker]

You can make a case for both but I do think Randolph is one of the better stories of the year. A guy who was essentially a black hole offensively has turned into a vital cog for the Memphis team. I think with how close they are, you have to give the nod to the guy who has his team in the playoffs right now. Kaman's stats are also not that impressive when you dig deeper. His true shooting percentage is actually pretty weak for a big man. A solid player but just short of an All-Star in my book. I'd actually give Marc Gasol the nod ahead of Kaman.

In the East, I don't see how Jamison is not on the team and it's surprising that Josh Smith is the odd man out in Atlanta considering he's the best player on that team.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by whomario

Actually, he is having a better year statistically Other than blocks he´s (a little) better in just about every statistical category. Started the year a little slower, but by now it looks like this :

Kaman : 20.2 PPG / 9.1 RPG / 1.3 BPG / 1.8 APG / 3.0 TOPG / 50% FG / 75% FT
Randolph : 21.0 PPG / 11.6 RPG / 0.5 BPG / 2.1 APG / 2.2 TOPG / 50% FG / 80% FT

"advanced" stats :

Kaman : 20.7 PER / 19.9 Opp PER / +- 6.3 / 1.20 PPS
Randolph : 24.8 PER / 18.8 Opp PER / +- 7.3 / 1.26 PPS

minutes are pretty much a wash, randolph plays 40 seconds more a night.


And have you seen him play ? He is immensely important to memphis offensively and actually doesn´t hurt them defensively.

Basically your whole "the Clippers are better because of a great Kaman" could pass for randolph and the Grizzlies as well.

Kaman would have been highly deserving, no question about it. But so is Randolph. Sometimes not all players deserving find a spot.
Just because he has a bad image doesn´t change the fact his play has been amazing and helps the grizzlies a whole lot.


the grizzlies coach should be in the running for COTY as well, having the guts to put iverson on the bench (you can bet the front office and ownership wasn´t happy about that one) and getting Randolph to play up to his talent and give a crap on top of it, getting by with virtually no depth (no injuries help) outside of the starting 5, turn a season around with a team and association that is used to loosing, balancing 4 very good offensive options.
Hell of a job.

Thanks for the well thought response, whomario. I still believe Kaman is every much as deserving of the spot, and we can both agree that it's close.

BTW, Randolph's stats aren't much better than...last year when he was with the Clippers. Obviously, I have seen him play (and come on, man, you should know that, you know I'm a Clippers fan, surprised you threw out all that stuff, and yet you didn't carp to the fact that, of course, I will have seen Randolph play and a LOT).

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Thanks for the well thought response, whomario. I still believe Kaman is every much as deserving of the spot, and we can both agree that it's close.

BTW, Randolph's stats aren't much better than...last year when he was with the Clippers. Obviously, I have seen him play (and come on, man, you should know that, you know I'm a Clippers fan, surprised you threw out all that stuff, and yet you didn't carp to the fact that, of course, I will have seen Randolph play and a LOT).

Like said, Kaman definitely could have easily gone over Randolph or Gasol, no question about it. He also should be in the running for MIP, if not the front runner there with a guy like david Lee (i really apreciate it when players with a handfull of seasons make another step in their development)

Of course i know you are a Clippers Fan and that´s pretty much what i expected as a reponse though, honestly Let me verify : Have you seen him play this season ?
That´s my main point, Randolph this year plays extremely different than ever before for whatever reasons (hitting his head, having an epiphany, being blackmailed to play teambasketball by guys holding his weed-stock as a hostage). Haven´t seen him play as much as you last year, but with league pass online propably 6,7 times and 6,7 times this year allready (not even that much of a Grizzlies follower, they just happened to play a lot of teams i wanted to see those days/nights).
It´s day and night.
No more relentless chucking (well, at leats not consistently ), no more coasting back to D, no more quitting on offensive screens to have a better chance at the offensive rebound, no more holding the ball too long too often.

Does that make the lackluster and erratic efforts he had with the Clippers and Knicks (in terms of team play) any better ? Hell no.
But still, this season he´s been a different player for whatever reasons and solely based on this season has been an All Star Calibre player.
Wouldn´t at all be suprised if over the summer he hits his head again and by this time of the year next season i´ll be commenting on him having just picked up a suspension for drug violations after just being cleared from having beaten up a teammate a week before and having gone straight into "Antoine Walker Mode" on the court (which would be Randolph usual lack of defense and chucking times 3). But this season ? All Star.

And yeah, we can agree that Kaman could have been there as well and no one would have had a right to object.

[RainMaker]

Speaking of the old Zach Randolph.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by whomario

Like said, Kaman definitely could have easily gone over Randolph or Gasol, no question about it. He also should be in the running for MIP, if not the front runner there with a guy like david Lee (i really apreciate it when players with a handfull of seasons make another step in their development)

Of course i know you are a Clippers Fan and that´s pretty much what i expected as a reponse though, honestly Let me verify : Have you seen him play this season ?
That´s my main point, Randolph this year plays extremely different than ever before for whatever reasons (hitting his head, having an epiphany, being blackmailed to play teambasketball by guys holding his weed-stock as a hostage). Haven´t seen him play as much as you last year, but with league pass online propably 6,7 times and 6,7 times this year allready (not even that much of a Grizzlies follower, they just happened to play a lot of teams i wanted to see those days/nights).
It´s day and night.
No more relentless chucking (well, at leats not consistently ), no more coasting back to D, no more quitting on offensive screens to have a better chance at the offensive rebound, no more holding the ball too long too often.

Does that make the lackluster and erratic efforts he had with the Clippers and Knicks (in terms of team play) any better ? Hell no.
But still, this season he´s been a different player for whatever reasons and solely based on this season has been an All Star Calibre player.
Wouldn´t at all be suprised if over the summer he hits his head again and by this time of the year next season i´ll be commenting on him having just picked up a suspension for drug violations after just being cleared from having beaten up a teammate a week before and having gone straight into "Antoine Walker Mode" on the court (which would be Randolph usual lack of defense and chucking times 3). But this season ? All Star.

And yeah, we can agree that Kaman could have been there as well and no one would have had a right to object.

One of the most bizzare transformations I've ever seen. They guy is playing defense, rebounding, passing. . . it's simply crazy to watch.

I had ONE major grip with this years selections:

Where in the world is Josh Smith? Two guys on his team who aren't better players than he is are on the team. (and I'm a Joe Johnson and Al Horford fan)

The guy has been amazing this year. If you have watched more than one Hawks game and do not think he's the best player on the team and one of the top 12 in the East, I'm not sure we can be friends. (j/k)

That was a screw job. I don't have an issue with Randolph over Kaman, I think it was the right call.

[Big Fo]

A humorous and accurate summation of just how poorly Vince Carter played last night: ESPN TrueHoop blog

At least we have JJ Redick.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

A humorous and accurate summation of just how poorly Vince Carter played last night: ESPN TrueHoop blog

At least we have JJ Redick.

Originally Posted by ESPN

Before Carter can make the entry pass, he has the ball poked away by Rasheed Wallace. It rolls toward midcourt. Rondo beats Carter there by about half an hour. Carter jumps right on top of him. A blatant foul, only Carter got there so late, that he is saved by the fact that Rondo has already called timeout.

That's just awesome writing.

[Big Fo]

Another nice win for Orlando tonight, beating the Hawks easily. Howard with a 31-19-3 night. Redick continues to be our best option at shooting guard, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I'm not quite all the way on the Vince Carter hate train (maintaining some hope because I'm a deluded optimist kind of fan) but I've at least gone ahead and paid for my boarding pass.

Andre Miller scoring 52 points in one night is remarkable.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Andre Miller scoring 52 points in one night is remarkable.

especially after averaging 5 in his last 3 games, it´s not like the guy was on a hot streak. Plus, make sure to watch the highlights somewhere for his running hook over Marion to send it into OT !

Batum played some very good defense on Dirk.

Redick has been a revelation this season, i am pretty happy for him too.

Gerald Wallace with 38/11, whoa Amazing season by him.

[whomario]

pretty good game going on between the Celtics and Lakers. Really match up very interestingly and would make for a great finals again if it were to happen.

Fisher shouldn´t be starting at this point of his career...

Rondo playing great so far, Gasol/Bynum having their way inside.

Rondo : It´s stunning how a guy with that little shooting ability can play so good. Every team is keying to the pass and gives him space, still he makes so many things happen. Such great court vision and passing technique. Plus he´s also one of the better players in the league moving without the ball, for a PG that is averaging nearly 10 APG that´s a pretty unique quality.

[DaddyTorgo]

ugh

[whomario]

what a shot by Bryant ...

[MrBug708]

Heh

[stevew]

How bout them Clippers.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

How bout them Clippers.

Woulda been tough to win in Cleveland even with Kaman and Griffin and Telfair. Without them and in the middle of a tough East Coast trip? Fuggedaboutit. Not really the time to judge the Clips as a team.

[stevew]

Oh, I know.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Telfair

Him?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Him?

He's not bad. And when losing him means you have to sign a D-League guy to be your backup PG, that's trouble.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

Oh, I know.

Interesting. Why make the comment then? I guess I shoulda said something when the Cavs escaped an even more injury riddled Clips team a couple weeks ago in LA, a game they shoulda lost.

[stevew]

Eh, just wondering how you give up 46 points in a quarter more than anything. West coming east, those teams have it rough especially during the end of a trip.

I actually did not realize you were missing so many rotation players.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

Eh, just wondering how you give up 46 points in a quarter more than anything. West coming east, those teams have it rough especially during the end of a trip.

I actually did not realize you were missing so many rotation players.

Cool deal. Actually, I missed that particular quarter and found out what happened-- the Cavs hit three pointers on seven straight possessions! I mean, damn. Not sure what you can do about that. When a team's that hot, what do you do, tackle them as they try to shoot? Very impressive.

The ending score doesn't show it, but the Clips actually got the score back down from 30 all the way to low 10's, which isn't bad as far as moral victories go after getting down that much.

[Karlifornia]

Chief Rum being defensive about Clippers basketball?

Just be happy they actually have light at the end of the tunnel, unlike my Warriors.

[whomario]

so, Kevin Durant... After another ridiculous scoring game (45 points on 16-21 shooting) : In his last 21 games he never once scored less than 25 (16 times 30+), shooting 54/52/87 in that stretch, going to the line nearly 11 times a game.
If he ever gets a decent feel for reading double teams and traps than he´s going to be unstoppable.

Vince Carter´s last 14 games : 9/3/2 on 28% shooting in 27 MPG, what the hell happened after new years ? He wasn´t particularly effective early in the season, but still dropped numbers along the tune of 19/5/4 on 40%in november and december
He was out a couple games, maybe a more serious lingering issue ?


Chris Paul is out at least a month, arthrospic surgery on his knee. I think it´s safe to say that this is it for the Hornets in terms of reaching the playoffs.
No5 San Antonio and No 11 Houston still only 2 wins apart.

meanwhile in the East No9 Milwaukee allready 3 and New York at 10 is 6 game back.

Boston has lost 11 of their last 17 games.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by whomario

Vince Carter´s last 14 games : 9/3/2 on 28% shooting in 27 MPG, what the hell happened after new years ? He wasn´t particularly effective early in the season, but still dropped numbers along the tune of 19/5/4 on 40%in november and december
He was out a couple games, maybe a more serious lingering issue ?

Yeah, he's a crybaby pussy.

[Eaglesfan27]

Speaking of the 46 by the Cavs in the 1st quarter, I just saw the highlights and all I can say is wow.

Edit: Never mind, that was the Cavs as a team that shot 11 of 13. I thought it was LeBron alone who shot that at first.

[MrBug708]

Collison had a good game the other night for the Nornets

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by whomario

so, Kevin Durant... After another ridiculous scoring game (45 points on 16-21 shooting) : In his last 21 games he never once scored less than 25 (16 times 30+), shooting 54/52/87 in that stretch, going to the line nearly 11 times a game.
If he ever gets a decent feel for reading double teams and traps than he´s going to be unstoppable.

Vince Carter´s last 14 games : 9/3/2 on 28% shooting in 27 MPG, what the hell happened after new years ? He wasn´t particularly effective early in the season, but still dropped numbers along the tune of 19/5/4 on 40%in november and december
He was out a couple games, maybe a more serious lingering issue ?


Chris Paul is out at least a month, arthrospic surgery on his knee. I think it´s safe to say that this is it for the Hornets in terms of reaching the playoffs.
No5 San Antonio and No 11 Houston still only 2 wins apart.

meanwhile in the East No9 Milwaukee allready 3 and New York at 10 is 6 game back.

Boston has lost 11 of their last 17 games.

Celtics are on a nasty skid. They really shoulda pulled out yesterday.

[RainMaker]

Shitty news on Paul. One of my favorite players to watch. I'm guessing this means they'll try and ship West out of town as soon as possible.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Celtics are on a nasty skid. They really shoulda pulled out yesterday.

What did you think of ESPN's column about how the Celtics should trade Ray Allen for something like Hinrich/Miller or Hinrich/Tyrus Thomas.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What did you think of ESPN's column about how the Celtics should trade Ray Allen for something like Hinrich/Miller or Hinrich/Tyrus Thomas.

I didn't see it yet. Interesting idea. Then again, I haven't watched much at all so far this year - is Allen playing poorly? Is his 3PT% way down? Because he's gone on record as saying he wants to come back next year at a reduced price - so keeping him might not be the worst thing, if he can still shoot.

Hinrich is an interesting guy - not sure how well he ends up playing off-the-ball though? Because you cannot take the ball out of Rondo's hands...his mobility and speed is what creates the room for the other guys to get easy baskets. Tyrus Thomas seems to be a load of poop from what I've seen, and I'm not interested. Brad Miller is getting old and would end up on the bench behind Perkins. Not sure about salaries on those guys and cap-space though.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Speaking of the 46 by the Cavs in the 1st quarter, I just saw the highlights and all I can say is wow.

Edit: Never mind, that was the Cavs as a team that shot 11 of 13. I thought it was LeBron alone who shot that at first.

Still pretty dern good. I think LeBron himself made 4 of them.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Collison had a good game the other night for the Nornets

The Hornets are 5-4 this year with Paul out and Collison starting, including wins over Phoenix, Atlanta, and at Memphis to snap their 11-game home winning streak. I don't think they can hold up for those competitive 5-8 slots in the West over the long term without Paul, but the Hornets really nailed the draft last year between Collison and Marcus Thornton. You can't ask for much more out of the 21st and 43rd picks in an NBA draft.

I hate losing Paul but if there was a year for him to get hurt, this is it. This was always a "just get through it" season while we're waiting for Peja's and Mo Pete's horrible contracts to become expiring contracts.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Hinrich is an interesting guy - not sure how well he ends up playing off-the-ball though?

pretty good off the ball. No coincidence he pops up as a potential upgrade at PG for the Lakers about twice a season.

For Allen his long range shooting actually is down to just 34%, couldn´t tell from the 6,7 games i saw so far.
His scoring inside the arc has been pretty much consistent with last couple of years and he´s still a 16 PPG guy and still a pretty good defensive player.

But if you get Hinrich for Allen you loose your only really viable option to play 35 minutes at SG defending a guy like Kobe, Joe Johnson or (if he finds his form) Carter and contribute offensively at the same time. Even when his shot doesn´t fall, he forces people to work to guard him.
Maybe Tony Allen but he can´t shoot from deep at all, same goes for Marquis Daniels who i would´t trust as a starter as well.

they´d upgrade their bench but weaken their starting SG spot.

Thomas actually might work with the Celtics ...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I didn't see it yet. Interesting idea. Then again, I haven't watched much at all so far this year - is Allen playing poorly? Is his 3PT% way down? Because he's gone on record as saying he wants to come back next year at a reduced price - so keeping him might not be the worst thing, if he can still shoot.

Hinrich is an interesting guy - not sure how well he ends up playing off-the-ball though? Because you cannot take the ball out of Rondo's hands...his mobility and speed is what creates the room for the other guys to get easy baskets. Tyrus Thomas seems to be a load of poop from what I've seen, and I'm not interested. Brad Miller is getting old and would end up on the bench behind Perkins. Not sure about salaries on those guys and cap-space though.

Well Hinrich had a real slow start shooting wise but has picked it up of late since being given the starting SG spot. He's not as prolific a scorer as Allen, but is a much better defender and can even play some point when Rondo is on the bench. He's just a good all-around player who plays hard and has the ability to really shut down a threat from time to time (he has given Wade fits over the years).

Tyrus is actually a really interesting option for you. He's got a ton of raw talent and he's a fantastic shot blocker. He also can crash the offensive boards hard where you guys get killed. He runs the floor well, plays above the rim, and I think would really play well with a good passer like Rondo. He's frustrating at times because he can have a monster game, block 6 shots and then the next night seemingly look completely out of sync. But with a veteran team where he'd know his role, I think he could be a real helpful player. Not to mention he is still restricted I believe and you'd have a chance to keep him as a future PF.

Miller is a big guy who can hit outside shots and bang a few bodies around. Basically just gives you some depth and scoring from a big man. He's actually been pretty vital in the Bulls turnaround this month.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by whomario

pretty good off the ball. No coincidence he pops up as a potential upgrade at PG for the Lakers about twice a season.

For Allen his long range shooting actually is down to just 34%, couldn´t tell from the 6,7 games i saw so far.
His scoring inside the arc has been pretty much consistent with last couple of years and he´s still a 16 PPG guy and still a pretty good defensive player.

But if you get Hinrich for Allen you loose your only really viable option to play 35 minutes at SG defending a guy like Kobe, Joe Johnson or (if he finds his form) Carter and contribute offensively at the same time. Even when his shot doesn´t fall, he forces people to work to guard him.
Maybe Tony Allen but he can´t shoot from deep at all, same goes for Marquis Daniels who i would´t trust as a starter as well.

they´d upgrade their bench but weaken their starting SG spot.

Thomas actually might work with the Celtics ...

I think defense is the bigger issue when you look at potential playoff matchups. Allen has lost a step defensively and Hinrich is a major upgrade on that side of the ball. Boston has shown they can't beat Atlanta without someone who can guard Joe Johnson and Wade and Carter are also potential matchups. I just don't think the Celtics can make the finals when opposing backcourts can run circles around Allen and Rondo. They need a fix somewhere and with Allen not being the perennial scorer he once was, it could make sense.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Allen is not terrible defensively, and Rondo is excellent.

[DaddyTorgo]

i guess thomas also might benefit (a la perkins) from Rondo drawing defenders and getting him easy buckets in the paint...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Allen is not terrible defensively, and Rondo is excellent.

I still believe Rondo's defense is overated. He gets steals and makes plays but he gambles a ton and gives up a lot of easy baskets. I haven't watched them a ton but when the Bulls have played them, Rose was able to basically do whatever he wanted to against Rondo.

[DaddyTorgo]

i heart ray-ray though. by all accounts he's a super class-act, and he's also living here in wellesley (as is rasheed wallace...whose son is in school with my brother apparently)

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I still believe Rondo's defense is overated. He gets steals and makes plays but he gambles a ton and gives up a lot of easy baskets. I haven't watched them a ton but when the Bulls have played them, Rose was able to basically do whatever he wanted to against Rondo.

no way. not to say he couldn't improve on learning when to gamble successfully (which he will as he gets older), but it's not overrated