The NBA 2014-15 Regular Season Thread

[Zinto]

This trade deadline is pretty crazy.

[BishopMVP]

Isaiah to Boston too? Did every average point guards get traded in 5 minutes? These last 20 minutes have been crazy.

[korme]

My goodness.

[Arles]

Sounds like the pick Suns gave up in the Knight deal is this year's top-6 protected Lakers pick (going to Philly).

[BishopMVP]

Add Pablo Prigioni and Alexey Shaved to that list of PG's getting traded. BLOCKBUSTER!!!!

[Arles]

So, here's what I've gathered from this firestorm:

Phx sends Plumlee, Innis (Bucks) and the Lakers pick (Phi)
Phi sends MCW (Bucks)
Bucks send Knight (Phx) and a pick (Phi)

Suns send Thomas to Boston for Thornton and a 1st (Cleveland's)

Suns send both Dragic brothers (Zoran and Goran) to Miami for Danny Granger, John Salmons (exp), Miami's 2017 first and Miami's 2021 first
Players (Norris Cole, Williams, Hamilton, ...) from Miami also going to New Orleans to offset salaries

[Arles]

So, from what I can tell, the Suns shed $20 mil in salary for next year (both Dragics, Thomas, Plumlee, Innis), lost the Lakers top 6 protected pick, gained Knight ($5 mil QO RFA), Thornton (expiring), Salmons (exp), Granger ($2 mil player option next season) and 3 firsts when the dust settles. Whew!

[korme]

I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS BUT ALSO A NEWBORN SO I'LL JUST SAY THE NBA RULES

— Zach Lowe (@ZachLowe_NBA) February 19, 2015

[BishopMVP]

Wow OKC made out in that trade. Kanter, Singler, Novak and Augustin for Jackson and Perkins?

[nol]

OKC among the biggest winners today. Phoenix effectively bows out of the playoff race while making some good moves for the future, and the Thunder considerably upgrade its supporting cast.

Philly gets worse and gets even more picks. In particular, that pick from the Suns via the Lakers is only top-3 protected next year, and with signing Dragic out of the picture, the Lakers are likely to be bad again. Losing out on Carter-Williams will be quickly forgotten if the 76ers pick up D'Angelo Russell or Emmanuel Mudiay in the draft.

KJ McDaniels going to Houston (for Isaiah Canaan and a 2nd rounder) is flying under the radar but could end up being huge come playoff time. That seems to be a low return for Philly, but McDaniels has a weird deal that allows him to become a free agent, and he wouldn't be re-signing with them.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by nol

OKC among the biggest winners today. Phoenix effectively bows out of the playoff race, and the Thunder considerably upgrade their supporting cast.

Phoenix had lost 6 of 7 and were out with Dragic. OKC was going to pass them even if they kept him.

Philly gets worse and gets even more picks. In particular, that pick from the Suns via the Lakers is only top-3 protected next year, and with signing Dragic out of the picture, the Lakers are likely to be bad again.

Yep,the Lakers pick is top 5 protected this year. So, virtually no chance Philly gets it this year. But next year it could have value if the Lakers don't add anyone. But with all the cap space and Kobe coming back, you have to think they will be a little better.

[korme]

Yeah, thats great for Houston.

[bhlloy]

Weird trade for the Bucks - losing their only real effective scorer in the year they in ally make the playoffs. Down the road it may pan out but tough to see the short term gain.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Weird trade for the Bucks - losing their only real effective scorer in the year they in ally make the playoffs. Down the road it may pan out but tough to see the short term gain.

Word is Knight rejected a $8+ mil contract extension and will be an RFA. Moving him for Michael Carter Williams and Tyler Innis isn't bad value if he was leaving after next season for UFA. Does hurt this year's playoff run though.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Weird trade for the Bucks - losing their only real effective scorer in the year they in ally make the playoffs. Down the road it may pan out but tough to see the short term gain.

I guess I'm not alone in my first impression, though I'm far from an expert on the players the Bucks got in return. I figured Knight was miscast as a PG but it seems weird to trade your most effective scorer, as you said.

[Arles]

I'm not sure how much worse the Suns will be down the stretch. I still think it was a longshot for them to make the #8 seed, but trading Dragic, Thomas and Plumlee for Knight, Thornton and Granger might not hurt a ton. They were weak at the 3 and length at G/F. Knight is a better defender than Goran and all 3 shoot well from behind the arc. Will be interesting to see Phoenix with more of a traditional lineup.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by korme

Yeah, thats great for Houston.

Pablo Prigioni is also going to have an impact in the playoffs at some point.

Love the Thomas deal. Get a guard who can shoot for a guard who loves to shoot and almost certainly a 20+ draft pick. Tayshaun Prince back to Detroit also for Jonas Jerebko and Luigi Datome. I guess Brandon Bass had no market, but thats 2 of the 3 dead end veterans we've been playing recently. If we make the playoffs now it's because young guys are improving.

[Arles]

Yeah, I thought Boston did well. The Suns were in a bind with Thomas (5'9) and Bledsoe (6'1). You can't really play both on the floor as they are both small and need the ball. Getting Thornton (6'4) and Granger (6'9), along with Knight (6'3) allows Phoenix more flexibility defensively.

Thomas should pair well with Smart as Smart is bigger and can guard 2s. Plus, he is a better offball guard and will allow Isaiah to penetrate more.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Arles

Yep,the Lakers pick is top 5 protected this year. So, virtually no chance Philly gets it this year. But next year it could have value if the Lakers don't add anyone. But with all the cap space and Kobe coming back, you have to think they will be a little better.

A little better in the West still net the Sixers a solid lottery pick. With Gasol, Aldridge, and now Dragic likely to be locked up there's not a lot out there to spend cap space on anyway.

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Weird trade for the Bucks - losing their only real effective scorer in the year they in ally make the playoffs. Down the road it may pan out but tough to see the short term gain.

In the West, this is a long-term/tanking move, but in the East the Bucks will still make the playoffs. They'll have some seriously long young defensive players though.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by lungs

I guess I'm not alone in my first impression, though I'm far from an expert on the players the Bucks got in return. I figured Knight was miscast as a PG but it seems weird to trade your most effective scorer, as you said.

MCW under Jason Kidd will be really interesting. Good defender with great length, shown some quality PG attributes but also a tendency to turn it over too much and force things. Just how much of that was due to playing with D-league players is up for interpretation, so it'll be great to watch on a real team. Also can't really shoot, but again, if anyone can help him there it's Kidd.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by nol

A little better in the West still net the Sixers a solid lottery pick. With Gasol, Aldridge, and now Dragic likely to be locked up there's not a lot out there to spend cap space on anyway.

Yeah, you have to think the Lakers will go all out for Rondo and Love. I think they will get a PG and a big to go with Kobe, Nick Young and Randle. The Lakers could have 35+ mil in cap space...

[corbes]

Life as a Sixers fan continues to be depressing. Acquiring first-round draft picks doesn't mean anything if we're going to turn around and trade those young draft picks away for more draft picks.

[whomario]

All those deals make way too much sense, i'm confused

Rockets, Thunder, Blazers all with very sensible upgrades to their depth. Kanter is a great fit potentially for the Thunder next to either Ibaka or Adams. Thunder also add Kyle Single who is decent.

Rockets are now loaded with guys who can give you good, unassuming minutes. Prigioni on a playoff team is great to see. Would not be shocked to see him in crunch time lineups.

Also, KG back to the Wolves is a nice little move. If he has mellowed a bit in the locker room, he could have a good influence on the young players and if nothing else this is a great marketing ploy. (and it is very likely he will stay at least another season after this, no reason why he would waive his no-trade clause otherwise)

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by korme

Zach Lowe predicted this the other day because George Karl absolutely loves the Professor.

Kings trading Ramon Sessions to Washington for Andre Miller, source tells Yahoo.
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) February 19, 2015

Poor Ramon Sessions-seems to get traded every year-he's from the Myrtle Beach area, so local paper keeps up on his career.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by corbes

Life as a Sixers fan continues to be depressing. Acquiring first-round draft picks doesn't mean anything if we're going to turn around and trade those young draft picks away for more draft picks.

They're a disgrace.

[Arles]

Suns also got $2 mil from Miami in the Dragic deal to cover Granger's $2 mil salary next year (he will probably get bought out). This means the only person under contract next year that the Suns got was Knight (who will be a RFA with a $5 mil QO). The deals put the Suns at around $45 mil (including the $5 mil hold for Knight). Before the deal, they were at $62 mil and facing a lot more money to Goran.

So, the Suns have around $17 mil in cap space to add a big to Bledsoe, Knight, both Morris', Len, Tucker, Warren and Goodwin. That's a better spot, IMO, then being at the tax limit with Dragic, Thomas, Bledsoe and co. This team needs an impact big to be viable.

[Groundhog]

I don't understand the MCW or McDaniels trades for the Sixers. Yeah, draft picks are nice and all, but MCW seems like he could end up being a pretty good player at some point if he continues to improve his shooting, and McDaniels is a 2nd round steal who looks like a legit rotation guy at the very worst...

I think they think they are playing pokemon with draft picks or something.

[stevew]

Knight counts at 250% of his 2014-15 vs the cap. 8.75M

Rookie scale, bird rights, less than league average salary.

His QO is totally different I believe

[nol]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I don't understand the MCW or McDaniels trades for the Sixers. Yeah, draft picks are nice and all, but MCW seems like he could end up being a pretty good player at some point if he continues to improve his shooting, and McDaniels is a 2nd round steal who looks like a legit rotation guy at the very worst...

I think they think they are playing pokemon with draft picks or something.

McDaniels is an upcoming free agent who won't re-sign. Just like with Dragic or whoever else, you have to get what you can.

You could also say that Brandon Knight could end up being a pretty good player, and what Philly got for MCW compared to what the Bucks got for Knight is the premium you get for pulling the trigger early.

[Arles]

OK, so Knight will be 8.75 mil hold, that still put the suns at around $48 mil. Should be an interesting offseason for them. I'm guessing they resign him to a deal starting at 9-10 mil a season. Given that's half what Dragic will get and he's 5 years younger, not a bad save.

[Groundhog]

Ah, I forgot that McDaniels had a non-typical 2nd rounder contract.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Arles

OK, so Knight will be 8.75 mil hold, that still put the suns at around $48 mil. Should be an interesting offseason for them. I'm guessing they resign him to a deal starting at 9-10 mil a season. Given that's half what Dragic will get and he's 5 years younger, not a bad save.

Knight is just 23, averages nearly 18 & 5, with 1.6 steals per game.

You're not going to resign him for $9-10 M. It will be much higher.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by nol

McDaniels is an upcoming free agent who won't re-sign. Just like with Dragic or whoever else, you have to get what you can.

You could also say that Brandon Knight could end up being a pretty good player, and what Philly got for MCW compared to what the Bucks got for Knight is the premium you get for pulling the trigger early.

Not to mention MCW's shooting has actually gotten worse and his overall statline is inflated a little by Philly's pace along with being the primary ball handler on a bad team. I think selling on him for a premium draft pick while you can is a good risk to take.

[stevew]

McDaniels would get Gilbert Arenas provisioned. So I think he can get MLE, MLE, Max offered on a 3 year deal, right? So he counts like 5.x/5.x/17(?) If Hou matches and 9m/9m/9m if not matched.

I think so anyways.

I imagine he's getting a nice offer.

[miami_fan]

1st round picks by the Heat since Pat Riley came to Miami

1995- Kurt Thomas
1997- Charles Smith
1999- Tim James
2002- Caron Butler
2003- Dwyane Wade
2004- Dorell Wright
2005- Wayne Simien
2007- Daquan Cook (via trade)
2008- Michael Beasley
2012- Arnett Moultrie

I think I will take my chances with Dragic.

Of course as I type this, an alert comes across my phone. Chirs Bosh is in a Miami area hospital undergoing testing on his chest area. Fuck.

[miami_fan]

Chris Bosh Illness: Updates on Heat Star's Status and Return | Bleacher Report

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

McDaniels would get Gilbert Arenas provisioned. So I think he can get MLE, MLE, Max offered on a 3 year deal, right? So he counts like 5.x/5.x/17(?) If Hou matches and 9m/9m/9m if not matched.

I think so anyways.

I imagine he's getting a nice offer.

I don't imagine he'd be very happy with the trade though, and he's not going to have the opportunities to showcase himself as much with the Rockets.

Having said that, the only reason I can think of that he wasn't starting or playing more minutes with the Sixers was that they were trying their best to keep his value lower than it would be if they were playing him the minutes he warranted on that roster.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Not to mention MCW's shooting has actually gotten worse and his overall statline is inflated a little by Philly's pace along with being the primary ball handler on a bad team. I think selling on him for a premium draft pick while you can is a good risk to take.

I just can't find which pick they got in that deal besides the Lakers one, and that will make the difference between whether they're selling high or just trying to get more ping-pong balls this year and next. The 2016 draft won't be as strong as the 2015 one, so there's no guarantee that the pick from LA (even assuming it's in the top 10) will be better than Carter-Williams, despite his flaws.

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I don't imagine he'd be very happy with the trade though, and he's not going to have the opportunities to showcase himself as much with the Rockets.

Having said that, the only reason I can think of that he wasn't starting or playing more minutes with the Sixers was that they were trying their best to keep his value lower than it would be if they were playing him the minutes he warranted on that roster.

I'd say the opposite; he's already showed he's athletic and can play defense. He's not going to miraculously develop a three-point shot over the next couple months, but if he makes an impact in a playoff game with the Rockets it'd be huge for him. From the Sixers' standpoint, Jerami Grant and Robert Covington have been playing well enough as of late to legitimately take his minutes, and it doesn't hurt that both of those guys are on the cheap pre-extension Chandler Parsons deals that McDaniels turned down.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

1st round picks by the Heat since Pat Riley came to Miami

1995- Kurt Thomas
1997- Charles Smith
1999- Tim James
2002- Caron Butler
2003- Dwyane Wade
2004- Dorell Wright
2005- Wayne Simien
2007- Daquan Cook (via trade)
2008- Michael Beasley
2012- Arnett Moultrie

I think I will take my chances with Dragic.

Of course as I type this, an alert comes across my phone. Chirs Bosh is in a Miami area hospital undergoing testing on his chest area. Fuck.

Shabazz Napier and Norris Cole

[stevew]

The Hypothetical Yugoslav basketball national team is wicked to think about.

Bigs-Pecovic, vucevic, mirotic, Nirkic, Teletovic, Saric

Guards-Both Dragic bros.

They could just keep spawning dirty 7 footers.

I'm sure they have other guards in Europe.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

Shabazz Napier and Norris Cole

I forgot about the trades for Napier and Cole.

Point still stands.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Knight is just 23, averages nearly 18 & 5, with 1.6 steals per game.

You're not going to resign him for $9-10 M. It will be much higher.

Thomas and Dragic (player option) were on the books for almost $15 mil this offseason. Dragic wanted $20+ per for 5 years (until he's 34). If they end up signing Knight for a deal similar to Bledsoe ($11-12 per), then they will have 2 under 26 guards playing at a high level locked up for 4-5 years at a combined price that is slightly higher than what Dragic will get himself this offseason.

The key will be how they use the draft the next 2 years, along with the development of Len, Markieff, Warren and Goodwin. But, they have a chance to be relevant. Had the paid Dragic (and even still moved Isaiah), they would have $33-36 mil in 2 guards and hampered when it came to adding/keeping any impact bigs.

[korme]

Knight wants 5-100, I'm telling you Chief is right. That's what NBA guys are saying that's what he wants. Everyone knows the cap is rising, guys will get overpaid.

[korme]

And for the WTFSIXERZ crowd, here is a decent reason to move on from MCW while you can get nice things from him:

Man, Michael Carter-Williams is still really struggling with his efficiency... pic.twitter.com/V6QolNfiAG

— Kirk Goldsberry (@kirkgoldsberry) February 19, 2015

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Chris Bosh Illness: Updates on Heat Star's Status and Return | Bleacher Report

Very sad but good that they caught it in time. This is likely the end of his NBA career.

[nol]

Yeah, it'll only take one team to give Knight a max offer sheet.

I have MCW on my fantasy team in a league that doesn't count turnovers and missed shots, and even then he hasn't been that great. I still like the move from the Bucks' perspective - they don't think Knight is their PG of the future (or at least not enough to sign him to a max deal) and get to try again with some younger prospects. A lineup of MCW-Middleton-Giannis-Dudley-Henson could actually be very stifling against a team like Toronto in the playoffs. Of course, from the Sixers' side I can understand how low MCW's trade value would be if his numbers remained stagnant next year as we was about to enter RFA. I thought a very high proportion of the deals yesterday were win-win, with the worst thing to say being that some of them were to correct prior dumb moves (like Minnesota's trade for KG).

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Chris Bosh Illness: Updates on Heat Star's Status and Return | Bleacher Report

Sounds like this will be season-ending at least .

[corbes]

Originally Posted by korme

And for the WTFSIXERZ crowd

Yeah. I wasn't thrilled with MCW and in isolation I think they got a good return. I think my gripe is that they've been telling us to be patient because they are draft wizardz and then are already turning around and flipping the guys they've picked into more draft picks. Basically, there's no endgame in sight other than tanking and flipping picks until you wind up with Michael Jordan.

If Sam Hinkie was in an FOF MP league, he'd have been thrown out by Ben a long time ago.

[JPhillips]

MCW being coached by Kidd is his best scenario. His first year stats look very similar to Kidd's first year.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by corbes

Yeah. I wasn't thrilled with MCW and in isolation I think they got a good return. I think my gripe is that they've been telling us to be patient because they are draft wizardz and then are already turning around and flipping the guys they've picked into more draft picks. Basically, there's no endgame in sight other than tanking and flipping picks until you wind up with Michael Jordan.

If Sam Hinkie was in an FOF MP league, he'd have been thrown out by Ben a long time ago.

I gotta disagree. Hinkie is living the GM dream of an ownership that wants a championship but built on his terms.

All I heard was while MCW had talent it would only be a coup if he could develop a shot, in Philadelphia, he could not. So he was moved, he was never considered a core piece, rather it was implied he could be if he developed the way the Sixers brass wanted him to.

Analytic process doesn't just include the draft but after as well. To get the Lakers first rounder (albeit protected to 5) is a major ROI. Furthermore, if the Lakers keep the pick, the Sixers have a shot at least a 4th overall pick next year, and the following year it is unprotected.

Reinforce this idea with the concept that most point guards are interchangeable unless they are elite (and MCW wasn't elite), it becomes a no brainer.

To me, the Sixers were never going to quickly transition to playoff caliber, that's not what management wants, they want in the next few years to be a team that rivals the elite Finals teams. They'll be young, cheap and high pace and talented.

KJ to Houston was not a shock either, KJ was a goner the moment he challenged his 2nd round contract. He risked and won actually, with the expanding salary cap, he very likely gets a big payday. Sixers wouldn't have matched, so now they get a PG and a 2nd rounder for a guy they would've gotten nothing for in the offseason.

I see no problem with these trades. There is a slim chance they have four 1st rounders this June which is insane. But they have money and bullets for the lottery, and they have a great chance of pulling off getting more talent.

Rather watch that then a playoff team that gets obliterated by the top teams, gets a mid draft pick that is too flawed to contribute and rinse/repeat.

[nol]

Originally Posted by corbes

Yeah. I wasn't thrilled with MCW and in isolation I think they got a good return. I think my gripe is that they've been telling us to be patient because they are draft wizardz and then are already turning around and flipping the guys they've picked into more draft picks. Basically, there's no endgame in sight other than tanking and flipping picks until you wind up with Michael Jordan.

If Sam Hinkie was in an FOF MP league, he'd have been thrown out by Ben a long time ago.

With a top-3 pick and a healthy Embiid I think they will be significantly better next year despite having traded two of their most exciting players.

As far as the patience goes, the drafting hasn't inspired much distrust when the "worst" picks have been drafting players would've gone several spots higher when healthy/not staying in Europe and would've been drafted with the next pick had the Sixers not selected them. Other than that, they got the ROY with the 10th pick (and of course the real wizardry there might be playing in such a style that enabled him to put up numbers and look better than he actually is) and have found some legitimate-looking players in the 2nd round.

Seattle/OKC spent more than 2 seasons sucking, and they should have been in a better position to build because they weren't close to the bottom of the league when they moved up in the lottery to get the Durant pick.