The Official NBA 2016 Offseason Thread

[wustin]

Yao was a twig his rookie year.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Short, simple, yet quite entertaining read IMO.

My Rookie Year | The Players' Tribune

edit to add: The headline doesn't reveal apparently, so ... it's a short essay from Yao Ming about his first year with the Rockets.

Yeah, thanks for posting. Really great read.

Pretty much the inverse of that story, re: Fred Weis: Log In - The New York Times

[mckerney]

All-star game is being moved from Charolette, New Orleans may be the new host.

NBA pulls 2017 All-Star Game from Charlotte, focuses on New Orleans

[wustin]

Good thing I don't live in Charlotte, but I'm not gonna hear the end of it on FB if that happens.

[Radii]

Excellent news.

[RainMaker]

Charlotte put in like $35 million in taxpayer money to upgrade the stadium for this too.

[JonInMiddleGA]

{shrug} A sport that already has problem connecting with large swaths of the population decides to further marginalize themselves by hitching their wagon to special interest groups.

Saves a basketball passionate state from enduring a no-defense shooting exhibition, seems like a win for Charlotte to me.

[nol]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

{shrug} A sport that already has problem connecting with large swaths of the population decides to further marginalize themselves by hitching their wagon to special interest groups.

Saves a basketball passionate state from enduring a no-defense shooting exhibition, seems like a win for Charlotte to me.

"large swaths"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by nol

"large swaths"

The audience is primarily young, indexes exceptionally black (nearly 4x more viewing than average white, more than 2x vs hispanic average viewing).

If you think those are demographics for the large midsection of the country often referred to as "flyover states", well then I dunno how to help you.

It's a sport that lives on a base of the largest metro areas, likely moreso than any other in the U.S. sports scene.

[RainMaker]

I just don't think I've ever been concerned with who is in the bathroom when I'm taking a shit. Certainly not enough to cost my state millions of dollars.

[Atocep]

How high are expectations for the revamped New York Knicks? New point guard Derrick Rose curiously said some people have put New York in the same "super team" class as the Golden State Warriors.

"With these teams right now, they're saying us and Golden State are the super teams, and they're trying not to build that many super teams, and [commissioner] Adam Silver came out with the statement and this and that," Rose said during a recent interview with NBA.com.

Who the hell are these people Rose is talking about?

[nol]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The audience is primarily young, indexes exceptionally black (nearly 4x more viewing than average white, more than 2x vs hispanic average viewing).

If you think those are demographics for the large midsection of the country often referred to as "flyover states", well then I dunno how to help you.

It's a sport that lives on a base of the largest metro areas, likely moreso than any other in the U.S. sports scene.

So, there are people in countries besides the United States who watch NBA basketball. It's pretty funny imagining a member of the bathroom police who was somehow still a fan of a league that kicked out Donald Sterling and allowed its players to wear 'I can't breathe' T-shirts. Also not sure why you'd try to denigrate flyover states when North Carolina is currently the only state wasting time and money over bathroom laws.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Who the hell are these people Rose is talking about?

I'm guessing he either doesn't understand sarcasm or stopped reading before getting through all the "This Knicks team would win the title in 2010" type jokes.

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm guessing he either doesn't understand sarcasm or stopped reading before getting through all the "This Knicks team would win the title in 2010" type jokes.

To be fair when you listen to Derrick Rose speak at length you realize he was probably put on earth just to play the sport of basketball.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by nol

So, there are people in countries besides the United States who watch NBA basketball. It's pretty funny imagining a member of the bathroom police who was somehow still a fan of a league that kicked out Donald Sterling and allowed its players to wear 'I can't breathe' T-shirts. Also not sure why you'd try to denigrate flyover states when North Carolina is currently the only state wasting time and money over bathroom laws.

Actually 23 states (including Louisiana where the game will likely be played) are suing the federal government over implementing the directive. And fwiw the NC law came about because the city of Charlotte (which has a ton of recent college graduates, and is thus much more socially progressive than the rest of the state) passed an ordinance allowing gender identity etc, and the more rural and suburban parts of the state predictably overreacted to it.

So I get what Silver's trying to accomplish, but given the facts it doesn't really seem as clean as the national media is making it out to be. And this isn't the thread for it (and the NC law goes too far in other aspects), but as someone who works at a HS it makes complete sense to me to handle the rare transgendered person on a case to case basis instead of giving carte blanche to any teenage boy to pick and choose which locker room they can walk in to.

[JPhillips]

Gerald Green seems like a good replacement for Evan Turner, especially for the vet minimum.

[wustin]

Has anyone been following the Olympics team? Strange roster lineup this go around, pretty much filled with nothing but two-way wingmen. Marc Gasol isn't available to play for Spain so I think it's obvious the US will just run through a train on everyone.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Gerald Green seems like a good replacement for Evan Turner, especially for the vet minimum.

I agree in the sense both are wings, but verrrrry different styles. ET was basically an average to below-average defender who could at least switch a lot of positions, but surprisingly was a great creator and ball handler vs 2nd units when IT4 wasn't on the floor, despite a complete lack of outside shooting (seriously, he shot like 23% from 3). Green gives us another outside shooter and a slasher but certainly shouldn't be a primary ball handler ever, and I'm guessing he'll have to be hid a lot on defense. But Terry Rozier 's shown enough growth and flashes that he'll take over that backup ball handler role, and we desperately needed a wing who could shoot from the outside (RJ Hunter is clearly not ready defensively, probably won't ever be strong enough, and I still don't think he's actually that great a shooter. And I don't care how young he is, James Young should've been released a year ago.) And clearly I'd rather have Green at the minimum than ET at $18m/y!

I think we would've preferred a strong big that can let Horford play the 4 a lot and defend guys like Greg Monroe over Tyler Zeller. Festus Ezeli at his number would've made sense, I wouldn't have minded a trade for Kosta Koufos. But signing Zeller on one of those deals where only this year is guaranteed preserves flexibility/cap space for a run at Gordon Hayward next summer if they can't trade for a "star" this February. Or I guess KD if GS goes horribly wrong somehow, or Westbrook if he'd actually sign in Boston over NY/LA, which I doubt.

[whomario]

Speaking of Marc Gasol: I have only now been starting to watch a few summer league games (scrolling through some admittedly and jumping large portions when players i was interested in weren´t playing) first thing of note: it was downright baffling how much the Lakers pick Zubac resembled him in his playstyle. Seriously, it was like this whole Kobe/Jordan thing in a way Thinks there´s a few "orange" flags regarding his footspeed and what he can do between the instances he gets the ball, but very developed post game, nice footwork, decent passing ability, really soft touch and some nice instincts defensively.

Apparently fell because teams wanted to stash him and he wanted to come over right away, but even then i feel like that´s a stupid reason. Plus, he looked ready to at least not make a fool out of himself for 10-15 minutes a game.

Also, i was totally shocked to learn that Earl Watson is an NBA head coach now, haven´t heard or read his name in years (well, guess thats on me, but still)

Dragan Bender is going to be amazing in 2-3 years.

Ben Simmons is gonna have to be managed very carefully and surrounded with a fitting team, don´t see much middle ground here (either bust or star).

[Izulde]

I loved watching Zubac in Summer League. Really had the impression he's going to be the next second round steal after Clarkson.

[korme]

"Waiters went into the offseason as a restricted free agent, and the Thunder gave him a qualifying offer that would have paid him $6.8 million next season. Waiters didn’t accept, and the Thunder eventually withdrew the offer a few weeks ago, leaving Waiters free to get himself a big fat contract from another team.

Today, Waiters signed with the Miami Heat:

AP Sources with @ByTimReynolds: Dion Waiters has agreed to a 1-year deal with Heat for $2.9M exception.

— Jon Krawczynski (@APkrawczynski) July 25, 2016

Don’t worry about Dion Waiters, though. He knows deep down that this is the season he’s going to average 26 points a game and get himself a max deal."

h/t Deadspin

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I loved watching Zubac in Summer League. Really had the impression he's going to be the next second round steal after Clarkson.

He looks good on offense, but he's so weak and slow defensively he'll be eaten alive on defense his first couple years and idk if he'll ever improve enough. Good gamble by the Lakers though, because who cares these next two years, and hope he makes a body transformation like Gasol did.

[BishopMVP]

Jeremy Lin putting together the video of the offseason.

[stevew]

Westbrook back to OKC for at least an extra season. Gains almost 9 million extra this season and gets the max next year, with the option to become a free agent when he qualifies for the 10 year max salary.

[nol]

Good for him, and a pretty solid refutation of the whole "why should we try to trade any halfway decent player when Westbrook will just sign with us in one year?" strategy the Celtics and Lakers have been rolling with.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by nol

Good for him, and a pretty solid refutation of the whole "why should we try to trade any halfway decent player when Westbrook will just sign with us in one year?" strategy the Celtics and Lakers have been rolling with.

No, the Celtics have not been employing that strategy. They did and do not want to give up the assets it would take explicitly because no one believes Westbrook would sign here next summer. The plan is to win 50+ games, hope a Blake Griffin/Jimmy Butler/DMC deal suddenly appears, the BK pick swap gives us a superstar, or Jaylen Brown develops an outside shot (probably least likely statement there). Plan C we go after Gordon Hayward.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Jeremy Lin putting together the video of the offseason.

This shit has over 4 million views. That dude's reach is incredible for a non-All Star.

[wustin]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

This shit has over 4 million views. That dude's reach is incredible for a non-All Star.

He would be a mega star if he decided to play in the CBA. Would definitely be the best player in that association and maybe just as popular as Marbury was.

[Logan]

Question for the real NBA guys...why is LeBron James still a free agent?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Logan

Question for the real NBA guys...why is LeBron James still a free agent?

He's likely using his leverage to make sure JR Smith gets a new contract.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Atocep

He's likely using his leverage to make sure JR Smith gets a new contract.

Yeah. Basically if any new opportunities pop up on the trade or FA market LeBron just has that much more leverage telling Dan Gilbert what to do. I'm also not sure if it's like the NFL too where there are some minor semi-mandatory offseason activities or even just team marketing appearances he can skip because he's technically unsigned.

[stevew]

I think that the Cavs might want to see about getting under the tax line this season. Yeah I know they just print money, but as of now they aren't paying the repeater rate, but by being over this season they would trigger it for 2017-18.

I also gotta wonder if it has something to do with 2k17 basketball. If he's not signed, I wonder if they can't add him to the game without a royalty payment?

[Logan]

Windhorst just reported LeBron signed a 3 year $100MM deal. Great timing.

[nol]

Originally Posted by nol

the Nuggets' Nikola Jokic, who probably had an even better season than Porzingis last year

He was a beast today. Very nice of Serbia's coach to not start him and spot the US a 9-0 lead.

Highlights

[wustin]

Not probably, Jokic was the clear second best rookie. Porzingis got enough votes for 2nd place probably because of all the fanfare. Jokic shot over 50% and had a ridiculous PER of 21.5

[Izulde]

Citing PER doesn't really lend credibility. It's only a rough, quick and dirty metric, and isn't taken seriously much anymore.

[stevew]

Just had a wtf moment when I saw B Bogdonovic was on Serbia, when I thought he was croatian. And then I realized there were multiple Bogdonovic's that play the same position and are completely not related.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by nol

He was a beast today. Very nice of Serbia's coach to not start him and spot the US a 9-0 lead.

Highlights

It was also his first really good game of the tournament and him stating against France led to a quick double digit deficit as well. Plus it feels like every big looks great against the US, ever

He´s a kid and he´s struggling a bit in his first olympics, getting about the minutes he should.

[nol]

Originally Posted by whomario

It was also his first really good game of the tournament and him stating against France led to a quick double digit deficit as well. Plus it feels like every big looks great against the US, ever

He´s a kid and he´s struggling a bit in his first olympics, getting about the minutes he should.

Yeah, he's struggling a bit because his playing time got yanked around. Not rocket science to play the one player on your team good enough to get minutes in the NBA, but that's the European mindset for you - if you're 4 or more years younger than your teammates, you should be lucky the almighty coach is giving you playing time at all.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by nol

Yeah, he's struggling a bit because his playing time got yanked around. Not rocket science to play the one player on your team good enough to get minutes in the NBA, but that's the European mindset for you - if you're 4 or more years younger than your teammates, you should be lucky the almighty coach is giving you playing time at all.

Chicken, egg ... the mindset is also playing most players 25 minutes at most, playing different lineups based on the opponent is actually a thing here as well. Why the hell would he care what he does in the NBA at any rate ? Raduljica f.e. is the miles better player right now in international competitions but could not sniff playing time in the NBA due to the fast pace and different rules.
To act like any NBA player automatically ought to be given the keys to the offense in FIBA games is pretty ignorant.

[nol]

Originally Posted by whomario

Chicken, egg ... the mindset is also playing most players 25 minutes at most, playing different lineups based on the opponent is actually a thing here as well.

Oh, so involve your good player more against the best team and less against worse teams so you can lose either way. Interesting. Definitely a stroke of tactical brilliance to go with a center who can't do anything outside the restricted area instead of Nikola Jokic when the other team has Andrew Bogut. How else will everyone know you're a brilliant coach if you're not arbitrarily subbing players in and out of the game to make sure they all get 20-25 minutes regardless of their actual ability to play basketball?

Why the hell would he care what he does in the NBA at any rate ? Raduljica f.e. is the miles better player right now in international competitions but could not sniff playing time in the NBA due to the fast pace and different rules.

Competitions? There was a qualifying tournament a few weeks ago during which Jokic was the best player by far. Going back further to compare two players who are now 28 and 21 only proves my point about seniority and politics mattering much more than actually being good at basketball. You make it sound like Nikola Jokic just had one of the best seasons for a 20-year-old in NBA history because he is some freak run/jump athlete, which could not be further from the truth.

To act like any NBA player automatically ought to be given the keys to the offense in FIBA games is pretty ignorant.

You say this after the closest game the United States has played in six years, lol. It's not like this is the only competition America has sent its B team to during that timeframe. I don't recall those Serbian vets putting up much of a fight in 2014.

[whomario]

I make it sound like that despite putting up a good rookie season in a ton of ultimately mostly meaningless games he is still only a kid learning to play the game consistently in different situations. And i don´t see a problem with that. And Jokic probably doesn´t, either.

On your last comment i can only say that to me you don´t get it and thus I give up. No need for the upteenth "Team USA wins every time, so everything about the NBA is better" discussion.

They win every time because the talent level and density is infinitely higher than any other country, not because the brand of basketball that they play (partly out of necessity) or that most of the league plays (out of choice) is more efficient than then one that is played by the top international teams both on club and NT level.
I don´t see how it´s much of an achievement for the team with the much better athletes to win in spite of their brand of basketball (and again, i realize it is partly out of necessity with the roster turnover).

And i´m not sure what is happening at the youth level in the last 10-15 years is good for the NBA in the long run and it´s pretty obvious quite a few executives are feeling the same. It likely won´t matter much because the NBA is existing in a bubble and every 2 years Team USA will still win because of the inherent superiority of the talent level. That doesn´t mean it´s entirely crisis-proove, either. It happened before when the game turned the wrong way. Right now we basically have 2 contrasting philosophies with the super teams and the teams trying to beat the system by emhasizing things outside the area of pure talent.

The number of international players/draftees increasing despite the international game actually having plateaued for a few years or being on the downswing in quite a few countries (due to a lack of finances and a lack of interest from young players due to a lack of attention by the media), that´s a pretty strong indicator. I mean, it´s nice that Australia is having a rise to the top, but it´s the exception. Argentina f.e. would probably like to play younger players more and the 35-38 year olds a little less, but there´s very few options out there.

[whomario]

NBA: Manu Ginobili has built a legacy of love for team in his storied career

just cause ... Zach Lowe article on Manus career.

[nol]

Originally Posted by whomario

They win every time because the talent level and density is infinitely higher than any other country, not because the brand of basketball that they play (partly out of necessity) or that most of the league plays (out of choice) is more efficient than then one that is played by the top international teams both on club and NT level.

I don´t see how it´s much of an achievement for the team with the much better athletes to win in spite of their brand of basketball (and again, i realize it is partly out of necessity with the roster turnover).

That's the freaking point. The team with good NBA players on it wins even with one hand tied behind its back in terms of continuity, scheme, and turnout from its top players, so maybe there's something to utilizing a good NBA player when you have one. There's no magic way of playing basketball that's ineffective against America but works against all other teams, so a team that gets blown out by the United States is not going to be that competitive against Spain. And Serbia was on the way to a beatdown that game until they were forced to heavily rely on Jokic.

Anyway, curious as to what 'style' of play is ill-suited against Jokic. He clearly more than holds his own against NBA-level athletes and is one of the most fundamentally skilled center prospects in the past 15-20 years.

The number of international players/draftees increasing despite the international game actually having plateaued for a few years or being on the downswing in quite a few countries (due to a lack of finances and a lack of interest from young players due to a lack of attention by the media), that´s a pretty strong indicator. I mean, it´s nice that Australia is having a rise to the top, but it´s the exception. Argentina f.e. would probably like to play younger players more and the 35-38 year olds a little less, but there´s very few options out there.

That's mostly because more analytically-minded teams are smart enough to use 2nd-round picks on players who won't come over and take up a roster spot, plus the international players are coming from a wider range of countries. If Kristaps Porzingis becomes better than Dirk, that still has no impact on which teams will be winning medals in major international competitions. It's probably also because NBA teams are more willing to develop young international players than national teams are in many cases. Lack of finances is a pretty laughable argument considering there's obviously more money in the NBA than ever before.

[whomario]

Lack of finances in europe. Why would i argue with a lack of NBA finances as a reason for the downswing of the Sport and a lack of good youngsters coming out of the club academies in Europe ? And theres more international players on rosters every year, not only stashed in europe (why would i argue with those ?). Dont see how one can read those 2 statements into this unless one is determined to ...

[stevew]

How did Jokic go 41st overall? Was he not expected to come to america for 5 years or was he just scouted poorly.

[korme]

Originally Posted by stevew

How did Jokic go 41st overall? Was he not expected to come to america for 5 years or was he just scouted poorly.

He was 30 lbs heavier, slow, and didn't have much range.

[nol]

Originally Posted by stevew

How did Jokic go 41st overall? Was he not expected to come to america for 5 years or was he just scouted poorly.

He was kinda chunky at one point. He got a lot better between 2014 and 2015 because he played for pretty much the only European club that gives playing time to anyone under the age of 22.

Originally Posted by whomario

And theres more international players on rosters every year, not only stashed in europe (why would i argue with those ?). Dont see how one can read those 2 statements into this unless one is determined to ...

Like I said, in many cases NBA teams are faster to realize the potential and ability of international players than their own national teams are, so you get stuff like Giannis being drafted in the mid first round when he hadn't even played for Greece's national team at the U16 or U18 levels or France thinking it can get by in the Olympics without Evan Fournier. And that's without even mentioning how much of the increase in 'international' NBA players over the past few years is driven by Canadians who played high school and AAU basketball in America.

[Atocep]

Derrick Rose may very well be in a world of shit. A lot of damning evidence in his rape case.

[stevew]

it's just civil though? I'm pretty sure that everyone almost universally regards him as garbage anyways. Worst case is probably that he's out a few million dollars and will get dropped by adidas.