Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Mota

Meanwhile, the guy main eventing Wrestlemania gets booed out of the building every night, is thoroughly unlikeable, but gets everything handed to him on a silver platter for years on end. It's the same story as 2014, nothing ever changes.

But who else can they lean on to main event Mania? The champ who has been on TV less than Alicia Fox? He's had 7 matches since Wrestlemania. Think about that. Joe or Strowman have pretty much been all of those matches minus the 4 way (Roman's only match with Brock). So they have to find someone to lean on. Joe got hurt, Seth got hurt, Finn got hurt, Dean got hurt, Show, Big Cass, Jeff Hardy even Jason Jordan. If you get a push at the top, you were probably injured.

Super Cena even took a clean loss on RAW in a singles match (something that had not happened since 2009). At least Roman has eaten his fair share of losses over the past 3 years on regular TV. They had the fans behind Roman with the Shield 2.0 and then Dean went and got hurt.

[murrayyyyy]

Well crap, should have watched RAW last night as basically everything I typed was in Roman's promo.

https://streamable.com/b8eod

Still seemed scripted but at least they are letting him seem like a bas ass instead of talking about tater tots.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Still seemed scripted but at least they are letting him seem like a bas ass instead of talking about tater tots.

Certainly scripted, but one of the best promos in recent years and probably the best of Reigns' career. He went from getting booed to getting a Rock-like face reaction in like 30 seconds.

Will be interesting to see where they go from here, though. You can't promote the match as some sort of "real" fight, since nobody would consider that a serious contest and it makes everything else on the card look lame. But as a temporary reset of the alignments, it might work.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

But who else can they lean on to main event Mania?

You've got an AJ / Nakamura match in hand, having Reigns v Parttimer main event is a joke.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Certainly scripted, but one of the best promos in recent years and probably the best of Reigns' career. He went from getting booed to getting a Rock-like face reaction in like 30 seconds.

Will be interesting to see where they go from here, though. You can't promote the match as some sort of "real" fight, since nobody would consider that a serious contest and it makes everything else on the card look lame. But as a temporary reset of the alignments, it might work.

It was short lived as he got booed out of the building in the dark match after RAW from reports.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You've got an AJ / Nakamura match in hand, having Reigns v Parttimer main event is a joke.

5 years too late unfortunately. Same with Cena-Taker which should be given consideration as the main event over Brock-Reigns. I'd much rather see them as I'm enjoying the broken man Cena program right now over what will probably be Brock's last match in the WWE.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

5 years too late unfortunately. Same with Cena-Taker which should be given consideration as the main event over Brock-Reigns. I'd much rather see them as I'm enjoying the broken man Cena program right now over what will probably be Brock's last match in the WWE.

Even several years too late, it's still the best thing they've got.

edit to add: At least there's a chance it wouldn't be a shit fest.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Even several years too late, it's still the best thing they've got.

edit to add: At least there's a chance it wouldn't be a shit fest.

The only thing they could do to make Mania interesting this year is a roster shake up @ Mania.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You've got an AJ / Nakamura match in hand, having Reigns v Parttimer main event is a joke.

I actually think they're going to put Rousey on last. Vince loves himself some mainstream coverage and ending the show with Rousey winning would get it. Plus HHH/Steph sure love being the center of attention.

I'd add that I hate these pay-per-views that fall in-between RR and WM. You know who's going to win going in. They should cut it to one PPV before Mania with both shows participating and drop the championship matches. For instance, there is a fatal 5-way for the WWE Championship taking place at Fastlane and we all know who's going to win it (AJ).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

The only thing they could do to make Mania interesting this year is a roster shake up @ Mania.

Only interesting thing I can think of is Reigns turning heel. And no chance Vince does that even though I think it would be great for him.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

But who else can they lean on to main event Mania? The champ who has been on TV less than Alicia Fox? He's had 7 matches since Wrestlemania. Think about that. Joe or Strowman have pretty much been all of those matches minus the 4 way (Roman's only match with Brock). So they have to find someone to lean on. Joe got hurt, Seth got hurt, Finn got hurt, Dean got hurt, Show, Big Cass, Jeff Hardy even Jason Jordan. If you get a push at the top, you were probably injured.

Super Cena even took a clean loss on RAW in a singles match (something that had not happened since 2009). At least Roman has eaten his fair share of losses over the past 3 years on regular TV. They had the fans behind Roman with the Shield 2.0 and then Dean went and got hurt.

If anybody got a main event spot this year, they were placeholders. We all know, and we've known for the last year, that they were going to make Lesnar untouchable so that Reigns could get the main event and get his big win against him to make him "the man". And that's exactly how it has played out so far. Nakamura winning the Royal Rumble so he can get the main event in Wrestlemania? I think it's reduced by this. He got the CM Punk treatment when CM PUnk was the champ, but for some reason never headlined a PPV for months. Something always downplayed him.

That's exactly why the fans have turned against Reigns. He's received the longest coronation ever. And when the fans rebel, they push it back by a year, but you know it's coming back the next year. Vince will have his way.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You've got an AJ / Nakamura match in hand, having Reigns v Parttimer main event is a joke.

WIth Lesnar possibly leaving, this match could be equivalent to Lesnar / Goldberg from 2003 (or whatever the year was).

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Certainly scripted, but one of the best promos in recent years and probably the best of Reigns' career. He went from getting booed to getting a Rock-like face reaction in like 30 seconds.

Will be interesting to see where they go from here, though. You can't promote the match as some sort of "real" fight, since nobody would consider that a serious contest and it makes everything else on the card look lame. But as a temporary reset of the alignments, it might work.

I dislike Reigns, but that was a really great promo.

[Schmidty]

Dola.

Also, has Cena been this bad in the ring for long? I stopped watching wwe years ago and just started watching again last year, but I don’t remember him sucking this much. My wife, who knows nothing about wrestling, watched SD with me last night and she even called the Styles/Cena match cringe-worthy. Styles is so out of his league, it was a ridiculous match to watch. 20 AAs from Cena and that’s it, while AJ is flying around out there. Really bad. Hogan bad.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I dislike Reigns, but that was a really great promo.

I don’t think it was fully scripted, but i reckon it was certainly worked on beforehand. Also think there was more than element of truth to it, maybe exaggerated, but there seemed a real axe to grind somewhere there.

[Ryche]

What the hell is up with all the captions while people are talking on Smackdown? It's like something out of Sesame Street.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Dola.

Also, has Cena been this bad in the ring for long? I stopped watching wwe years ago and just started watching again last year, but I don’t remember him sucking this much. My wife, who knows nothing about wrestling, watched SD with me last night and she even called the Styles/Cena match cringe-worthy. Styles is so out of his league, it was a ridiculous match to watch. 20 AAs from Cena and that’s it, while AJ is flying around out there. Really bad. Hogan bad.

For what it's worth, Cena-Styles from 17 Rumble was seen by most as the top WWE match of the year.

I'm not sure Cena has it anymore but it's because of the amount of time he is spending on movie sets. They are probably in protection mode with both of them as they don't want a repeat of WM32 with everything being ruined because of injuries the month before Mania.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

But who else can they lean on to main event Mania?

This is somewhat self-fulfilling though, no? I mean, they've failed to push anyone else at that level and the response is "Well, I guess no one else is at that level" *shrug*. Are you suggesting that with the right push Rollins, Balor, Styles, Nakamura, Cesaro and Braun could not be relied on to main event? Heck, given the right push, I would even add borderline guys such as Owens, Wyatt (maybe...?), Miz(?), as well as Zayn and maybe even Roode based on their NXT responses.

While I concede that both Rollins and Balor have had some poorly timed injuries when they got their shot, Roman's also had some more minor injuries in the past four years (not to mention a PED... sorry wellness... suspension) only to get plugged back in right at the top. So I'm not sure I buy that argument either (especially with this Jon Bravo/Richard Rodriguez PED story looming).

Furthermore, how often was Shawn Michaels "injured" prior to main-eventing Wrestlemania's 12 and 14. Yet they still managed to "lean" on him. I mean, Steve Austin also suffered an injury in the middle of his first major push and had to relinquish his title. Does that mean that they should have never given him an opportunity again?

[Carman Bulldog]

I should add, if Reigns-Lesnar is the main event and goes on last (and I have no reason to believe it won't), then it will mark 4 straight years that Reigns has been in the Wrestlemania main event.

Only one other person has done that in history and that is Hogan.

Not Austin, Cena, Rock, HHH, HBK, Undertaker, or anyone else.

Hulk Hogan, Roman Reigns. That's it.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

I should add, if Reigns-Lesnar is the main event and goes on last (and I have no reason to believe it won't), then it will mark 4 straight years that Reigns has been in the Wrestlemania main event.

Only one other person has done that in history and that is Hogan.

Not Austin, Cena, Rock, HHH, HBK, Undertaker, or anyone else.

Hulk Hogan, Roman Reigns. That's it.

I think we are headed towards Rhonda being the main event with HHH/Angle wrestling the bulk of the match. I mean it's no Lawrence Taylor winning the main event of Mania but Brock's deal ending combined with Roman's 2016 problems may push this one down the card and they usually want to end with a longer match. I'm not sure an unmotivated ($$$) Brock can stretch a match to 10+ minutes.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

This is somewhat self-fulfilling though, no? I mean, they've failed to push anyone else at that level and the response is "Well, I guess no one else is at that level" *shrug*. Are you suggesting that with the right push Rollins, Balor, Styles, Nakamura, Cesaro and Braun could not be relied on to main event? Heck, given the right push, I would even add borderline guys such as Owens, Wyatt (maybe...?), Miz(?), as well as Zayn and maybe even Roode based on their NXT responses.

While I concede that both Rollins and Balor have had some poorly timed injuries when they got their shot, Roman's also had some more minor injuries in the past four years (not to mention a PED... sorry wellness... suspension) only to get plugged back in right at the top. So I'm not sure I buy that argument either (especially with this Jon Bravo/Richard Rodriguez PED story looming).

Furthermore, how often was Shawn Michaels "injured" prior to main-eventing Wrestlemania's 12 and 14. Yet they still managed to "lean" on him. I mean, Steve Austin also suffered an injury in the middle of his first major push and had to relinquish his title. Does that mean that they should have never given him an opportunity again?

It's the lack of them being able to put over a face in today's wrestling climate I think. I mean they struggled with Roman but at least he's been there to try to push having avoided major injuries.

Personally, Rollins and Styles are the only two on that list who could main event Mania. It's too early for Braun (but I could see him carrying the strap going into something like Summerslam), Cesaro and Naka are a no go as they can't carry their respective shows and Balor seems off for some reason to me within the WWE. I'm not sure Balor gives a shit half the time. There have been complaints about people just waiting for their turn to be champion and I think of him every time. Owens could be but does a bad guy go over that often at Mania as of late? It's hard to even believe that Wyatt was a champion before and Canadian Triple H is horrifically boring as a face.

I think Rollins has been given top story lines after injuries. Like I said earlier, I think something is wrong with Balor's drive. It's either that or when he is in the ring he looks so much smaller than the other guys.

As far as Michaels (who I've never been a fan of) what else was going on? Stone Cold v Vega? Warrior v HHH (maybe the worst Mania match ever)? And 14 was more about Mike Tyson than Michaels. Stone Cold was arguably a top 3 face of all time. Was he injured when they did that silly double pin and made him the ref between Kane and Taker? Or are we talking when he was the IC champ and got his neck injured by Owen?

Thinking about it, Balor might make a good run with the IC belt once Miz goes on maternity leave. Is the belt beneath Seth?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Is the belt beneath Seth?

If it wasn't beneath Cena then it ain't beneath Seth.

[SirFozzie]

You think high spots are ridiculously contrived these days?

Check out this video from a 1970's french wrestling tape

History of Pro Wrestling on Twitter: "Best Jump over the Ropes..EVER !!!!… "

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If it wasn't beneath Cena then it ain't beneath Seth.

Cena's never held the IC belt so is it beneath him?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Cena's never held the IC belt so is it beneath him?

My bad, US rather than IC. Though we could still argue that the IC is the higher of the two.

I'll stick with my answer, that if Cena can carry any non-"World" title then said belt is not below anybody in the company (under the right circumstances)

[murrayyyyy]

ROH16 was much more satisfying to go to than Elimination Chamber(and 1/8 the ticket prices for better seats). First time to see Takahashi and MCM in person. Pretty solid 10 match card with the high point being the reveal of Bury the Bear. Castle-Lethal had actual ring psychology so my kid didn't know how to react. Hopefully TV tapings are just as good tonight.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

ROH16 was much more satisfying to go to than Elimination Chamber(and 1/8 the ticket prices for better seats). First time to see Takahashi and MCM in person. Pretty solid 10 match card with the high point being the reveal of Bury the Bear. Castle-Lethal had actual ring psychology so my kid didn't know how to react. Hopefully TV tapings are just as good tonight.

I saw the recaps afterwards. Sounded like a heck of a curtain jerker too, with Gordon vs Hiromu

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jeff Hardy charged with DWI tonight in NC after a single-car accident.

(under the influence of what hasn't been clarified yet)

[RainMaker]

Can't say I'm surprised.

Will be interesting to see what WWE does here. But I'm guessing he is let go.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Can't say I'm surprised.

Will be interesting to see what WWE does here. But I'm guessing he is let go.

My kid pointed out that -- in theory -- he could have been taking legit prescription med(s) after his surgery. So he might have some way to save himself but it ain't looking good.

Also, Woken Matt tweets "EVAH since the #7Deities have come to me, I do not put alcohol, drugs, or foreign substances into my VESSEL. I AM MORE"

which kinda sounds to me like he just threw his brother under the bus

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

My kid pointed out that -- in theory -- he could have been taking legit prescription med(s) after his surgery. So he might have some way to save himself but it ain't looking good.

Also, Woken Matt tweets "EVAH since the #7Deities have come to me, I do not put alcohol, drugs, or foreign substances into my VESSEL. I AM MORE"

which kinda sounds to me like he just threw his brother under the bus

I mean if you hit a guardrail and they find pills in your car, you can be charged with DWI correct because they can't field test for that(in theory)? He's already been released from jail which seems weird as they hold you here until you sober up at least.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I saw the recaps afterwards. Sounded like a heck of a curtain jerker too, with Gordon vs Hiromu

As long as we don't count the 2 women's matches that were on facebook live then yes, it was a great curtain jerker. Way more women's matches this year compared to the past as it seems like they are going for that demographic suddenly.

[albionmoonlight]

In NC, you can get a DUI for a legal substance (i.e. prescription painkillers). However, it is generally not charged.

Also, the fact that they charged him that quickly indicates that it was likely either alcohol (breath test) or an illegal drug (any amount showing up on a blood test). If it were, say, Vicodin, there would probably be some time when they checked if he had a prescription, etc.

So, it is possible that this was just some painkillers. But it is highly probable that it was alcohol or marijuana.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I mean if you hit a guardrail and they find pills in your car, you can be charged with DWI correct because they can't field test for that(in theory)? He's already been released from jail which seems weird as they hold you here until you sober up at least.

In the situation of finding a bottle of pills, they would generally take a blood draw.

NC law is a little weird on the question of letting someone sober up. There was a case a while back where the guy got off because he claimed that he wanted to go to the hospital to get his own blood test and he could not because they wouldn't release him. And he won on appeal on that issue.

The current state of the law is kind of complicated, but the short of it is that they might release him if he is not seen as a danger and he has someone to release him to.

[JonInMiddleGA]

TMZ (who I have to admit has a pretty strong track record of getting this stuff right) says "Cops say he submitted to a breath test and blew a .25 -- more than three times the legal limit."

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

TMZ (who I have to admit has a pretty strong track record of getting this stuff right) says "Cops say he submitted to a breath test and blew a .25 -- more than three times the legal limit."

I assume he's in decent trouble with his past but didn't one of the Usos get a DUI a couple of months back and didn't drop the titles.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I assume he's in decent trouble with his past but didn't one of the Usos get a DUI a couple of months back and didn't drop the titles.

There have been some on the roster who skated pretty much free & clear of legal problems like this, others considerably less so.

His future may come down to what sort of agreement regarding substances they had with him.

His federal probation has long expired best I can tell, so there's probably no violation there (his plea bargain included treatment for substance abuse, so there was likely some alcohol clauses in that at the time, but it was like 2 yrs probation and that was way back in 2011)

[RainMaker]

I think his history will play a role in any decision. Plus it doesn't help that he's 40 and likely not going to be in the main event scene ever again.

Just doesn't seem like a ton of incentive for WWE to keep him around. They got the nostalgia run they wanted out of them and sold a bunch of merchandise. Not worth the possible bad publicity to see him kill someone in an accident while on the roster.

His best route might be to take WWE's offer of rehab and then come back. Makes it a little harder for the company to fire him from a PR standpoint.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

His best route might be to take WWE's offer of rehab and then come back. Makes it a little harder for the company to fire him from a PR standpoint.

Not sure what the policy on rehiring 3rd-strike people even is honestly.

(It has been noted that his two previous strikes did remain on his record with the company & if this goes as a strike then, by company policy, they have no choice but to fire him. And if they send him to rehab while an employee then I'm pretty sure it has to be as part of a wellness policy violation)

[miami_fan]

WWE Drops Fabulous Moolah, Name Changed to WrestleMania Women's Battle Royal | Bleacher Report

Did anyone know about these claims about Moolah?

[molson]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

WWE Drops Fabulous Moolah, Name Changed to WrestleMania Women's Battle Royal | Bleacher Report

Did anyone know about these claims about Moolah?

This reddit poster pulled together all of the various Moolah stories out there and summarized them:

In light of the controversy surrounding The Fabulous Moolah and her life, I decided to find everything I could on the subject and typed up this 6,000 word super post listing every terrible thing that Moolah has ever done with videos, interviews, quotes, and different sources to back everything up. : SquaredCircle

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

WWE Drops Fabulous Moolah, Name Changed to WrestleMania Women's Battle Royal | Bleacher Report

Did anyone know about these claims about Moolah?

/r/squaredcircle has talked about it for years on reddit.

Thread from a couple of years ago: Why is The Fabulous Moolah disliked by people? : SquaredCircle

[albionmoonlight]

I had never heard any of that.

She seems like one of the worst people to ever exist.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

She seems like one of the worst people to ever exist.

Or, you know, just about average for the business in her era.

My actual first comment aloud when I read this? "I guess there won't be any Bert Prentice tribute events". I mean, wrestling promoters are rather notoriously sleazy as a group and sex was certainly part of that in different ways.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oh, and my comment isn't meant to excuse anything Moolah may have done. My point was more along the lines of "If Snickers has a problem with what she may have done, they really have a problem with wrestling in general .... even if they aren't smart enough to figure that out"

[molson]

It's all about what gets on the radar of the important people. It's not a case-by-case moral determination.

All of this stuff with Moolah was well out there when they were still using her as a comedy character. This time, /r/squaredcircle is a thing, and I think they got to the Mars company, or somebody at Mars is a huge wrestling fan. If they did the same with Jimmy Snuka, he would have been gone much sooner too. If there was enough of a public backlash against Steve Austin for beating his various wives multiple times, the WWE would dissociate with him too.

Regular people have so much more of a voice with corporations than they do with politicians.

[murrayyyyy]

So when does RAW send the US Marshals to North Carolina? Probably the best Wyatt story line.

[JonInMiddleGA]

To their credit, they (WWE creative) didn't botch that nearly as badly as I expected they would.

The use of the globe & the song worked surprisingly (to me) well even.

[murrayyyyy]

Daniel Bryan formally cleared by WWE to return to in-ring action - CBSSports.com

So his first match has to be in the superdome @ Mania, correct?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Daniel Bryan formally cleared by WWE to return to in-ring action - CBSSports.com

So his first match has to be in the superdome @ Mania, correct?

They'd be dumb if they didn't.

I'm thinking a Shane/Bryan vs Zayn/Owens match would be great at Mania. Shane can take his dumb bump and everyone else can put on a great match.