Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Bobby Lashley returns.

That's one good reason for Lesnar to keep the title.

As someone who basically only follows WWE -- which I'm guessing makes me like a big chunk of their audience -- help me understand why I should be excited about this. Lashley hasn't been around in ten years, and he was basically a mid-card guy even then. Now I'm supposed to be hyped for him being the guy to take down Lesnar?

I know he's done MMA and wrestled elsewhere, but it feels like WWE would have a lot of work to put in to get him to the level that a lot of more plugged-in fans seem to think he's already at.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

As someone who basically only follows WWE -- which I'm guessing makes me like a big chunk of their audience -- help me understand why I should be excited about this. Lashley hasn't been around in ten years, and he was basically a mid-card guy even then. Now I'm supposed to be hyped for him being the guy to take down Lesnar?

I know he's done MMA and wrestled elsewhere, but it feels like WWE would have a lot of work to put in to get him to the level that a lot of more plugged-in fans seem to think he's already at.

He's not taking down Lesnar. You won't see Brock again until the Saudi match.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

He's not taking down Lesnar. You won't see Brock again until the Saudi match.

And I think the next time you see Lesnar after that is in UFC.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Ryche

And I think the next time you see Lesnar after that is in UFC.

And considering how much softer his body looks like this past year, and how quickly he becomes purple and winded, you won't see him in UFC very many times. He's 40 years old, his last match was 2 years ago and he was roided up for it. These are not indicators of a strong comeback.

Also, I watched part of Raw last night and saw the debut of No Way Jose. All I could think of was Adam Rose. Great first week, fun intro, and TOTALLY not a good fit for the WWE. He didn't even stand out in NXT, so I'm not sure how you could consider him for a promotion to the main roster.

I did love seeing Ember Moon make her debut, she could be huge in the WWE.

[IlliniCub]

WWE really should think about doing the NXT Takeover specials as a stand alone again and not as part of their 5 major ppv weekends. Honestly every time since they've scheduled them together I have been completely underwhelmed when the main roster show goes down in comparison.

[JonInMiddleGA]

100th ep of Being The Elite is up. Does a good job of dealing with ROH Supercard of Honor events and still leaving you wondering if it's a cliffhanger or something else.

[RainMaker]

The Saudis must be paying a fortune because that card is insane. Every championship is on the line (except women). 50-man battle royal. Brock is flying over. And looks like The Undertaker is doing a casket match.

[murrayyyyy]

19 new people to RAW? Didn't realize Smackdown had that many bodies laying around.

[murrayyyyy]

I hope the do more of the Wrestlemania Theater matches on the network. They take unseen footage/views from matches and piece them together. Really like the different angles/hot mics.

[Scarecrow]

Final results of the shakeup:

The following Superstars were sent from SmackDown LIVE to Monday Night Raw during the first night of the Superstar Shake-up:

1) Jinder Mahal
2) Ruby Riott
3) Sarah Logan
4) Liv Morgan
5) Kevin Owens
6) Sami Zayn
7) Zack Ryder
8) Fandango
9) Tyler Breeze
10) Natalya
11) Dolph Ziggler
12) Drew McIntyre
13) Baron Corbin
14) Konnor
15) Viktor
16 Bobby Roode
17) Mojo Rawley
18) Mike Kanellis
19) Chad Gable

The following Superstars were sent from Monday Night Raw to SmackDown LIVE during the second night of the Superstar Shake-up:
1) United States Champion Jeff Hardy
2) Mandy Rose
3) Sonya Deville
4) Samoa Joe
5) Big Cass
6) Asuka
7) Luke Gallows
8) Karl Anderson
9) Cesaro
10) Sheamus
11) R-Truth
* The Miz (Selected on the first night of the Superstar Shake-up)

Plus new arrivals from NXT:
1) Andrade "Cien" Almas
2) Zelina Vega
3) SAnitY's Eric Young, Alexander Wolfe and Killian Dain

[JonInMiddleGA]

Former AJPW owner Motoko Baba reportedly passed away last week (news just revealed now). A complicated legacy but definitely have to respect her role as at least arguably the most influential woman in pro wrestling history.

Rest in peace.

[RainMaker]

They had to change up Nakamura's theme now that he's a heel and I think they did a really good job. Kept the same riffs but made it more hardcore and added Japanese lyrics so the fans can't sing along.

[RainMaker]

Also was Nakamura ever a heel in NJPW? He's really fucking good at it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also was Nakamura ever a heel in NJPW? He's really fucking good at it.

I've always thought he was a better heel honestly, everything about his character/mannerisms has always screamed heel to me. And while that isn't where some of his success has come from, he does have a heel background.

He aligned himself with former GBH members at the formation of Chaos in 2009. They were, at that point, pretty much the only heel stable in NJPW and feuded almost everyone. Chaos only became the face stable it has been in recent years after going through battles with eventual heel stables Suzuki-gun and Bullet Club, which is how they made the transition to face.

from a Sportskeeda summary

The origination of the King of Strong Style gimmick came with Nakamura's 2009 return to New Japan Pro Wrestling, after a temporary tour of the world (which Japanese wrestling culture encourages, and even requires, for all of its talents to learn new approaches to the craft).

Everything from his new moniker The King of Strong Style, to his increasingly erratic and flamboyant behavior, his unique look and entrance, to even his expanded and hard-hitting move-set.

This came from the decision to fly in the face of Japanese tradition and forge an aggressive and showy loner character who attacked the promotion's history and top babyfaces with reckless abandon.

This heel work led Nakamura to several well-known four- and five-star encounters with men like Kota Ibushi, Kazuchika Okada, Hiroshi Tanahashi, and Hirooki Goto;

[Suicane75]

A little thought on Impact Wrestling. As someone who would love a strong North American company to compete with WWE, I'm baffled by their booking decisions since the new team took over. Maybe it's me being old and grumpy, but the easiest way for me to get into something, is when they provide quality long term booking. Every fucking Impact show feels like it's got new guys coming in, titles constantly changing hands, and to a lesser degree, feuds rebooting.

If you bought the PPV the other night you got the world and tag titles changing hands. Aries just showed up and won the world belt, less than a month later he loses it to the newly arrived Pentagon, and then they next night they change both the belts again. It may not be Russo, but it feels like Russo. And that's enough to keep me away.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Every fucking Impact show feels like it's got new guys coming in, titles constantly changing hands, and to a lesser degree, feuds rebooting.

Well, this IS a company that had gotten so out of whack with their tapings & airings that guys who were long gone from the roster were still appearing (and winning) on TV.

It's still a clusterfuck, and still apparently run by fuckwits. And it's still booked with all the rationale that goes with fuckwits.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, this IS a company that had gotten so out of whack with their tapings & airings that guys who were long gone from the roster were still appearing (and winning) on TV.

It's still a clusterfuck, and still apparently run by fuckwits. And it's still booked with all the rationale that goes with fuckwits.

That's the thing though. It's new guys! And they've been in charge long enough that it shouldn't feel like the same old Impact. It baffles me how people do not learn.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

That's the thing though. It's new guys! And they've been in charge long enough that it shouldn't feel like the same old Impact. It baffles me how people do not learn.

Well, let's see here ... they've put belts on Scott Steiner and The Walking Wellness Violation Matt Sydal. In that light, putting the belt on a less than entirely reliable (much less credible as top champ) Pentagon, Jr isn't really all that shocking.

The overdose of random luchadores reminds me of the relatively short ill-fated attempt to turn the NWA into a Mexico-focused promotion (anybody else remember that? I think David Marquez was behind it, though the year escapes me at the moment) a stunt that pretty much put the last nails into the coffin of the brand.

If anything, given the number of guys TNA is using that have California connections, I wouldn't be surprised if that twit had a finger involved somewhere, somehow.

[murrayyyyy]

Nice set up in Jeddah.

[RainMaker]

So I've read the Saudis are paying $200 million for this event? Wow!

[molson]

It will be really interesting to see, in the next quarter's financial reports, how much money the WWE is getting for this. They're not only running a Wrestlemania-level show there, they're also promoting the greatness of Saudi Arabia on its TV programs. It's all really weird. I saw a $200 million number floating around.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by molson

It will be really interesting to see, in the next quarter's financial reports, how much money the WWE is getting for this. They're not only running a Wrestlemania-level show there, they're also promoting the greatness of Saudi Arabia on its TV programs. It's all really weird. I saw a $200 million number floating around.

Saw the same figures and they aren't paying for anything over there on top of that.

[RainMaker]

It has to be a lot. Lesnar doesn't work cheap. I'm sure getting the Undertaker over isn't cheap either. They're bringing over guys like Jericho, Henry, etc.

[murrayyyyy]

Titus World Slide...

[JonInMiddleGA]

I could see $200m being the value of the recently struck 10 year deal between the Saudi sports authority & the WWE, but for this these couple of days it seems high.

I mean, they got partial ownership of Endeavor (though reportedly less than 10%) for $400m.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Titus World Slide...

Yeah, that was a real Shockmaster moment

[Suicane75]

I counted 5 horrid mistakes by Lashley during his time in the ring, including almost killing Cass.

[Edward64]

Not a wrestling fan so didn't really know much about it.

The female wrestlers is probably going to be a (next) generational thing but its a great step to opening up the country. There is a cool picture of female fans at the event.

(Hopefully NK is next)

Saudi Arabia apologizes for images of 'scantily-clad female wrestlers | Daily Mail Online

Saudi Arabian officials have apologized after images of scantily clad women appeared on big screens during a world wrestling event that allowed women and children for the first time.

The Saudi General Sports Authority released a statement on Saturday, a day after a promotional ad featuring female wrestlers aired at the World Wrestling Entertainment Co.'s Greatest Royal Rumble in Jeddah.

They apologized on a Twitter post for 'the scenes of indecent women that featured in an ad before one of the matches.'

[Mota]

Doesn't seem to be very "open" to me. Women not allowed to be on the broadcast, Sami Zayn who is Canadian but of Syrian descent not allowed at the show.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Mota

Doesn't seem to be very "open" to me. Women not allowed to be on the broadcast, Sami Zayn who is Canadian but of Syrian descent not allowed at the show.

But to them this is the Janet Jackson boob. It's been 14 years and still no one will put a boob on the screen. Other countries look at us like we look at the Saudis in this situation. They had to apologize for Carmella being in the commercial in the one piece where she is drinking the water bottle in that one piece outfit.

Women couldn't drive there until September of last year. You can't expect them to flip everything in 1 day.

[molson]

The WWE and individuals like Triple H shouldn't try so hard to "justify" this, it just comes off as disingenuous.

They're a big, worldwide company who are doing very lucrative business in Saudi Arabia. There's no shame in that or reason to apologize. Hundreds of major U.S. companies do business in Saudi Arabia. In fact, it would be kind of odd if the WWE randomly took this firm moral stand and turned down potentially hundreds of millions of dollars to stand up for women's equality. That's not who they are or have ever been and we shouldn't expect that kind of thing from a wrestling company, which is basically just a carny business that exploded into something bigger.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Not a wrestling fan so didn't really know much about it.

The female wrestlers is probably going to be a (next) generational thing but its a great step to opening up the country. There is a cool picture of female fans at the event.

(Hopefully NK is next)

Saudi Arabia apologizes for images of 'scantily-clad female wrestlers | Daily Mail Online

The "error" did go over pretty well with the live audience:

Ryan Satin on Twitter: "The audience in Saudi Arabia reacting to Carmella making an on-screen appearance at #WWEGRR.… "

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I could see $200m being the value of the recently struck 10 year deal between the Saudi sports authority & the WWE, but for this these couple of days it seems high.

I mean, they got partial ownership of Endeavor (though reportedly less than 10%) for $400m.

The young Crown Prince is desperate for popular support and they have endless oil money. They were offering $3 billion to take over the Confederations Cup which is insane money for a small soccer tournament. They were also linked to that group that wants to buy the Club World Cup for $25 billion.

I also have to believe WWE would need to be paid a lot to cut a bunch of promos reciting some Saudi propaganda, abandon every female on the roster, and ditch Sami Zayn. This is a company that's really careful about the press they get and they knew it would bring on some negativity. Not to mention a chunk of wrestling fans are good ole boys and having a 3-hour propaganda show for a rich Saudi Prince probably doesn't go over well in those parts of the country.

Originally Posted by molson

The WWE and individuals like Triple H shouldn't try so hard to "justify" this, it just comes off as disingenuous.

They're a big, worldwide company who are doing very lucrative business in Saudi Arabia. There's no shame in that or reason to apologize. Hundreds of major U.S. companies do business in Saudi Arabia. In fact, it would be kind of odd if the WWE randomly took this firm moral stand and turned down potentially hundreds of millions of dollars to stand up for women's equality. That's not who they are or have ever been and we shouldn't expect that kind of thing from a wrestling company, which is basically just a carny business that exploded into something bigger.

I agree. It'd be insane to turn down the money that the Saudis were offering (especially as a public company). But it does make a lot of their words feel empty over the years.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Not to mention a chunk of wrestling fans are good ole boys and having a 3-hour propaganda show for a rich Saudi Prince probably doesn't go over well in those parts of the country.

Eh, I think you'd be a little surprised how little of a shit most of that contingent gives on this particular thing. This was (afaik) a Network exclusive (right?), aside from highlights it'll be largely like it didn't happen to most of those folks.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I agree. It'd be insane to turn down the money that the Saudis were offering (especially as a public company). But it does make a lot of their words feel empty over the years.

Because the Warrior Award, Susan G Kolman link and Be a Star program were right in line with words that mean something? Let's not forget that a main storyline right now is fat shaming their women's title holder on RAW. Last year we had a title holder play with some racist jokes toward Naka.

[molson]

It looks like Kane won the Republican primary for Knox County Mayor. (Which basically guarantees he'll be defeat the Dem challenger and be the mayor.)

Glenn Jacobs wins Knox County Mayor Republican primary by 17 votes - WATE

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

It looks like Kane won the Republican primary for Knox County Mayor. (Which basically guarantees he'll be defeat the Dem challenger and be the mayor.)

Glenn Jacobs wins Knox County Mayor Republican primary by 17 votes - WATE

I'm sorry, but you have GOT to have pyro for his swearing in

[RainMaker]

Looks like he won by 17 votes!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Knox County is a slight (R) lean.
Last time it went (D) for President was ... 1940

If he survives the provisional ballots then he's a winner in November almost certainly. He might even win if he turned heel

[molson]

40,545 total votes were cast in the Republican primary v. 7,662 total votes in the Dem primary.

Edit: He has actually been fairly active in the ring recently. Not since Mania, but he wrestled a pretty full March, including house show main events with Brock Lesnar.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The win is now official, Glenn Jacobs actually increased his advantage to 23 votes after the provisional ballots were counted.

Jacobs wins Knox County GOP mayoral primary after provisional ballots counted - WATE

[Suicane75]

Dear lord, that PPV last night was about as bad as you could imagine a WWE show being. The booking in this company is just off the charts awful and the wrestlers are pretty much teetering on putting in as little effort as possible or just plain not even trying.

[Mota]

I had it on in the background and I swear, I didn't watch 2 minutes of it. However, I couldn't believe the negative reaction the matches were getting. The Nia Jax interview was like an after school special, one of the worst interviews I've ever heard. It made me think, no wonder she was bullied, she is so lame. Not exactly what they were trying to pull off.

Also in the "main event", the CM Punk chants broke out, as well as a ton of borings, I couldn't believe it.

When you don't give the crowd what they want, don't expect them to react the way you want them to.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

Also in the "main event", the CM Punk chants broke out, as well as a ton of borings, I couldn't believe it.

Seemed like "Beat The Traffic" chant was on point.

[JonInMiddleGA]

With the kid home from school, catching up on some missed NJPW.

Kushida v Ospreay from Dontaku (May ... 5?) was a damn fine match

Fuck star rating it, there was some pretty wrestling & I mean that in a good way. Kushida looked amazing.

I honestly think Ospreay holding the title may be hurting it right now, though I credit the booking of the match with trying to improve a lack of investment the crowd has in Ospreay as a champion.

Seriously though, damned well worked match (and I don't know that I've ever once said that after a match involving Ospreay)

[miami_fan]

Fox reaches agreement to air WWE's 'SmackDown Live'

[JonInMiddleGA]

Honestly, the VOD coverage for BoSJ -- at least from what might be the worst wrestling venue in all of Japan (KIRA MESSE NUMAZU in Shizuoka ... which must mean "overlit aircraft assembly hanger) --- is almost unwatchable.

A single hardcam, with one rarely used handheld. This is really really bad viewing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sweet Jesus ... $205m / yr for 5 years.
(By comparison, Fox was reportedly willing to only go to $175m/yr when their UFC deal comes up for renewal)

What on earth will Raw renewal be? $3B for 3 years or thereabouts would be my guess (though the dirtsheets are guessing only about $240m annually)

Fox and WWE Close to Massive Five-Year, $1 Billion Deal for 'SmackDown' | Hollywood Reporter

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Fox reaches agreement to air WWE's 'SmackDown Live'

Trade the UFC for just Smackdown is a bit shocking to me. Wonder if they try for Saturday night and where RAW ends up in all this now...

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sweet Jesus ... $205m / yr for 5 years.
(By comparison, Fox was reportedly willing to only go to $175m/yr when their UFC deal comes up for renewal)

What on earth will Raw renewal be? $3B for 3 years or thereabouts would be my guess (though the dirtsheets are guessing only about $240m annually)

Fox and WWE Close to Massive Five-Year, $1 Billion Deal for 'SmackDown' | Hollywood Reporter

I'd guess 400-500m a year if they can get one of the big 3 in with those rights and new programming.

Also means that Smackdown can be filmed in front an empty arena and would still make money. Wouldn't be shocked if this means smaller venues in their future to increase profits.