Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[murrayyyyy]

Stock is at $57.86 right now... so glad I passed on it when it was $10...

[RainMaker]

The importance of it goes beyond just the money Fox is paying. It's network TV in primetime. It's a whole new audience they can reach (cord cutters, people without cable).

I'm curious how they'll do it. Will Smackdown have the B show feel still or will it be considered the main show?

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The importance of it goes beyond just the money Fox is paying. It's network TV in primetime. It's a whole new audience they can reach (cord cutters, people without cable).

I'm curious how they'll do it. Will Smackdown have the B show feel still or will it be considered the main show?

Reading that FOX plans to tie it in with other programs including NFL Sunday. Sounds like they are going ALL IN here. Would help WWE develop stars instead of having them act on TV shows on SciFi.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The importance of it goes beyond just the money Fox is paying. It's network TV in primetime. It's a whole new audience they can reach (cord cutters, people without cable).

I'm curious how they'll do it. Will Smackdown have the B show feel still or will it be considered the main show?

Real numbers audience is likely to end up flat to smaller honestly, due to the move back to Friday night.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Real numbers audience is likely to end up flat to smaller honestly, due to the move back to Friday night.

Didn't realize it was moving back to Friday night.

Do you think this will change their business model elsewhere? I saw Dave Meltzer mention that the TV rights now trump everything else the company makes money on. I wonder if they'll cut back on house shows.

Also doens't this kind of mess with the network a bit? It used to be the PPVs were vital to the company but now they're secondary. You'd almost be better off putting the good matches on TV for ratings.

[RainMaker]

This also has to be real bad for the indies. WWE can just throw money around at any of the top guys for other promotions.

Maybe Jon knows this but why hasn't a streaming service gone after WWE or another promotion? I know Facebook was really interested but no one wants to pull the trigger. They're all throwing tons of money around for content and a promotion like Impact, ROH, etc would have to be real cheap to buy the rights to.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Maybe Jon knows this but why hasn't a streaming service gone after WWE or another promotion? I know Facebook was really interested but no one wants to pull the trigger. They're all throwing tons of money around for content and a promotion like Impact, ROH, etc would have to be real cheap to buy the rights to.

I suspect something along those lines is where the reportedly higher bid they turned down came from.

As for the others, if you're an FB or YT there's risks attached to being perceived to be hyping significantly inferior product, better to stay out of the space altogether. And for the promotions, the fractional-sized rights fees from a lower tier streamer might not amount to much more than walking in place.

[RainMaker]

Big night for Jericho and Omega.

[RainMaker]

I guess the Bucks won the Heavyweight Tag Championship too. Big night for the gaijin.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I guess the Bucks won the Heavyweight Tag Championship too. Big night for the gaijin.

Sort of a trend at Dominion, which I noticed when the commentary talked about the run of title changes there.

2017: GoD over War Machine
2016: Briscoes over GoD
2015: Bullet Club (Gallows & Anderson) over The Kingdom (Taven & Bennett)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Big night for Jericho and Omega.

My as-it-happened match ratings, strictly fwiw


Match 1:
Kanemaru / Desperado (c) vs R3K (Sho & Yo) for the IWGP Jr Tag Team Titles
2.5*


Match 2:
Juice Robinson/David Finlay vs Jay White/Yoshi-Hashi
2.75*

Match 3: Suzuki-gun (Suzuki & ZSJ) vs Ishii & Yano
2.75*

Match 4:
Taichi vs Michael Elgin vs Hirooki Goto (c) for the NEVER Openweight Title
2.75*

Match 5: Young Bucks vs Evil/Sanada (c) for the IWGP Tag Team Titles
3.25*

Match 6:
Tanahashi/Liger/Rey Mysterio, Jr vs Bullet Club (Cody / Scurll / Page)
3.5* (they made this entertaining, worth at least a quarter to half a star)

Match 7: Hiromu Takahashi vs Will Ospreay (c) for the IWGP Jr Title
4.0*

Match 8: Chris Jericho vs Tetsuya Naito
4.0* (and not as good as the match before it)

Match 9: Okada (c) vs Omega for the IWGP World Heavyweight Title
5.0* (though not the best in the series if you remove the emotions)

[RainMaker]

You should take a star off for whatever Jericho was wearing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You should take a star off for whatever Jericho was wearing.

Funny thing.

My kid said "clockwork orange much?" ... and 20 secs later, Kevin says "channeling Malcolm McDowell" (or something to that effect)

[miami_fan]

So who made the first call yesterday? CM Punk to Vince or vice versa?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

So who made the first call yesterday? CM Punk to Vince or vice versa?

I think there is way too much bad blood. Vince just funded a bogus lawsuit on Punk out of spite. Seems more likely he does some appearances on the indy scene if he wants to get back into wrestling.

The guy is also 39 and has made a lot of money in his life. Maybe he doesn't want to deal with all that stuff anymore.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The Elite vs New Day in Street Fighter competition did a good enough job that you could at least wonder if maybe there's some sort of working agreement between the two superpowers in the offing.

I don't think that's likely any time soon but it says something for Omega & Creed that you might at least be tempted to wonder for a moment.

[JonInMiddleGA]

NTX Takeover opener between Undisputed Era & Lorcan/Burch is one of the better tag matches in north america in a while. Damned fine work all around, solid 4* or better IMO.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If the ghost of Dusty Rhodes and the mental corpse of Vince Russo combined forces to come up with a match finish they still couldn't top the mindboggling clusterfuck that was Gargano v Ciammpa ending.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If the ghost of Dusty Rhodes and the mental corpse of Vince Russo combined forces to come up with a match finish they still couldn't top the mindboggling clusterfuck that was Gargano v Ciammpa ending.

Dusty Rhodes. Haven't heard that name in a while. White hair, razor scarred forehead.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If the ghost of Dusty Rhodes and the mental corpse of Vince Russo combined forces to come up with a match finish they still couldn't top the mindboggling clusterfuck that was Gargano v Ciammpa ending.

I wouldn't go that far, lol. I didn't like the finish, but I wouldn't go that far.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I wouldn't go that far, lol. I didn't like the finish, but I wouldn't go that far.

It's the ignoring of events from literally only minutes before that pushed us past redline here in the batcave.

Even if you overlook the loading of a man on a stretcher, ignoring the same guy frantically tapping out mere moments before the sudden pinfall pushes past my suspension of disbelief threshold.

[JonInMiddleGA]

When Elias has ended up perhaps the most over heel on the main roster ... yeah, you've had some booking issues somewhere.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's the ignoring of events from literally only minutes before that pushed us past redline here in the batcave.

Even if you overlook the loading of a man on a stretcher, ignoring the same guy frantically tapping out mere moments before the sudden pinfall pushes past my suspension of disbelief threshold.

Yeahhh, I feel ya. This may have been the worst, great feud, ever. All the matches have been great, but the bizarre way it's been laid out has certainly detracted. Having the loser leaves town match first, and then having it not really mean anything cause Ciampa wins in the end anyway, is just...odd. One of the best things about NXT compared to the main roster is that it always feels like things are planned well in advance, this feud though, really felt like they making it up as they went along. If they had just stuck to the basics and made Saturdays show the blow off, with the loser moving up, it would have had a lot more gravitas to it. And also not do the shitty finish.

[murrayyyyy]

Money in the Bank was pretty good to me (at least 3 matches should have hit 4 stars) and almost felts so strange ending with 3 really good matches. Plus the return of the Big Hogg. What more could you want?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Money in the Bank was pretty good to me (at least 3 matches should have hit 4 stars) and almost felts so strange ending with 3 really good matches. Plus the return of the Big Hogg. What more could you want?

I dunno, more workers that I actually give a shit about would probably be nice. That's really the biggest problem I probably have with the show overall (aside from the painful endurance test that was Reigns vs Mahal)

Full credit to Rollins & Elias, that was definitely considerably better than I would expected. If you'd told me that I'd consider it to have been the pretty much the equal of anything on the card, I'd have raised an eyebrow at the very least.

I think AJ vs SN was about as good as it could have been given the stipulation. Not breathtaking worldbeating stuff, but close to what I feel like SN needed in terms of performance. (Mark me is happy with the outcome, smark me wonders wth you do with the loser now though)

I'll even credit the booking with Bliss & the briefcase, that was a farily creative way to move through the situation & leave the door open for more stuff.

But I didn't even bother to watch the two final matches -- choosing to take a second nap of the day instead -- 'cause at the end of the day, about the only thing in them I really felt like I'd be missing that I'd really care about was the inevitability that Owens would have a solid funny moment somewhere. I can abstractly appreciate the value that Braaaaaaaaun has to a wrestling company without really feeling any need to sit & watch it. Otherwise the format & the feeling of an extremely predictable outcome made this "highlights later will be plenty"

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I dunno, more workers that I actually give a shit about would probably be nice. That's really the biggest problem I probably have with the show overall (aside from the painful endurance test that was Reigns vs Mahal)

Full credit to Rollins & Elias, that was definitely considerably better than I would expected. If you'd told me that I'd consider it to have been the pretty much the equal of anything on the card, I'd have raised an eyebrow at the very least.

I think AJ vs SN was about as good as it could have been given the stipulation. Not breathtaking worldbeating stuff, but close to what I feel like SN needed in terms of performance. (Mark me is happy with the outcome, smark me wonders wth you do with the loser now though)

I'll even credit the booking with Bliss & the briefcase, that was a farily creative way to move through the situation & leave the door open for more stuff.

But I didn't even bother to watch the two final matches -- choosing to take a second nap of the day instead -- 'cause at the end of the day, about the only thing in them I really felt like I'd be missing that I'd really care about was the inevitability that Owens would have a solid funny moment somewhere. I can abstractly appreciate the value that Braaaaaaaaun has to a wrestling company without really feeling any need to sit & watch it. Otherwise the format & the feeling of an extremely predictable outcome made this "highlights later will be plenty"

I felt (while watching) that I really enjoyed Rollins- Elias until those final matches. The women's MIB can't get much better minus the foul up reaching for the case. Rousey was impressive with her ability to sell and Jax probably had her best match also as it seemed she wasn't scare to hurt someone and hold back for once. AJ/Naka was a really good match but I agree with the where do we go from here statement. Men's MIB probably got bumped up in my mind because of the two previous matches.

[murrayyyyy]

Big Cass released so Carmella wins in the end over Enzo and Cass.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Big Cass released so Carmella wins in the end over Enzo and Cass.

Yeah, anybody who bet on (originally storylined as) Enzo's hairdresser being the last of the trio under contract coulda made some bank.

[JonInMiddleGA]

from WWE Facebook ... ·
WWE is saddened to learn that Leon White, better known to WWE audiences as Vader, passed away Monday night at the age of 63.

----

Rest in peace

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, anybody who bet on (originally storylined as) Enzo's hairdresser being the last of the trio under contract coulda made some bank.

While I don't agree with how she's booked, she's definitely talented on the mic. Also that ring attire.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

from WWE Facebook ... ·
WWE is saddened to learn that Leon White, better known to WWE audiences as Vader, passed away Monday night at the age of 63.

----

Rest in peace

One of the best bumping big men in my time.
Stiff as hell. His and Sting's "WHite castle of fear" bloodbath is worth going out of your way to see.


RIP, big man

[JonInMiddleGA]

477 days after a terrifying spinal injury, Tomoaki Honma returns to the ring for New Japan.

I really gotta dust down in the bat cave soon.

https://youtu.be/FzyU0oX7RxQ

[Toddzilla]

I sliced my toe open on a piece of glass yesterday and it was easy 0.5 on the Muta scale. I figured I'd post that here since you're the only folks i know that would understand.

[JonInMiddleGA]

NXT:UK produced a darned fine tag title match with Undisputed Era vs Mustache Mountain (Bate & Seven).

Well worth seeking out if you're into that style of work

[Scarecrow]

Am I the only one that is enjoying watching Bo Dallas impersonate Bray Wyatt?

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Am I the only one that is enjoying watching Bo Dallas impersonate Bray Wyatt?

I saw a snippet of it and thought it was funny.

But very shortsighted, especially with Curtis Axel impersonating Woken Matt Hardy - Axel was just as good at doing the character, and it just showed the shallowness of it all. It may finally kill it.

[SirFozzie]

Japan's DDT Wrestling crossed the fandom streams with the world cup with VAR and a penalty kick being awarded in a match.

DDT Wrestling Twitter

[JonInMiddleGA]

Catching up on the NJPW shows in the UK, and was thinking how good Suzuki & Ishii are at what they do.

I mean, the standard nose to nose strike exchange sequences ... but nobody ever gets their face split open. That requires considerable precision, not to mention consistency.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And, speaking of the UK and NJPW: poor Oka.

If you haven't seen the gimmick he's been given for excursion just look up Dominator Great O'Kharn (or O'Kahn, I'm seeing the latter sometimes now).

edit to add: There really aren't words for what shit this is.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Good show (with the main event still to go) in San Francisco tonight but dear Lord, AXS coverage of NJPW is horrific.

JR needs to retire, NOW. His inability to get names right is embarrassing, though at least this year I don't think it's due to lack of effort but instead simply due to being past the point where he can do this job.

And the only thing less interesting than Josh Barnett outside the ring at this point is the thread of Josh Barnett IN the ring (via an incredibly stupid angle they stuck in the middle of the US Title match).

I think in the future I'll just try to wait for the New Japan World coverage to upload & watch on delay.

[RainMaker]

I loved JR over the years. I thought it was dumb that they let him go years ago because he was miles better than Cole. But you're right. He just doesn't have it anymore.

It's not a knock on him personally either. He's 66 years old. He has had a lifetime of health issues. And his wife just passed away. It just sounds like he's tired doing this show. It's like old JR but he hasn't slept in 3 days.

[SirFozzie]

OW.

OW OW OW OW OW

Did I say Ow?

[JonInMiddleGA]

They went right to the very very end before doing the booking that HAD to occur.

And it was handled reasonably well IMO.

Let heels be heels.

[RainMaker]

So those 3 (including 59 year old Haku) were able to wipe out like 8 guys?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So those 3 (including 59 year old Haku) were able to wipe out like 8 guys?

Haku took out both Bucks (which is believable)
Then GoD took out Kenny two-on-one.
Then every would-be rescuer was basically going 1-on-3 or 2-on-3

Now the REAL question about loyalty here is ... Pro Wrestling Tees.
They already have the "B.C. Firing Squad" shirts up for sale
That means they knew in advance lol

[JonInMiddleGA]

Lesnar seen with Dana at tonight's UFC show.
Cormier calls out Lesnar immediately after his match.

edit to add: Lesnar comes into the ring & shoves Cormier.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Amateur wrestling legend Danny Hodge is missing, after leaving home late this afternoon. Hodge, now 86, suffers from dementia and "authorities say Hodge is "in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death."

404 Not Found

[Toddzilla]

Takahashi legit broke his neck on that botched suplex, holy shit:

Italo Santana 🇧🇷 on Twitter: "JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!! #G1USA #NJPW @dragon_leecmll… "

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Haku took out both Bucks (which is believable)
Then GoD took out Kenny two-on-one.
Then every would-be rescuer was basically going 1-on-3 or 2-on-3

Now the REAL question about loyalty here is ... Pro Wrestling Tees.
They already have the "B.C. Firing Squad" shirts up for sale
That means they knew in advance lol

So which one is the Wolfpack/red NWO/nwo elite now?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Takahashi legit broke his neck on that botched suplex, holy shit:

I am absolutely gutted by this. Still hoping against hope that it isn't as bad as feared.

Speechless honestly