Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Toddzilla]

Holy crap, Slammiversary was wild. Going in with very low expectations helped but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Way better than most of the WWE PPVs this year, and who expected that coming from Impact?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Holy crap, Slammiversary was wild. Going in with very low expectations helped but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Way better than most of the WWE PPVs this year, and who expected that coming from Impact?

Have only seen the recaps but it sounded as though they went about as close to full CZW as a PPV has seen in a while (for one match I mean).

[Toddzilla]

Yep. What I thought was very well thought out was there were basically 3 matches in a row (with a breather in between 1 and 2) that built on each other in terms of brutality. And they finished it off with a perfectly acceptable palate-cleanser of a wrestling contest.

[dubb93]

Can we stop with the DQs in the G1 and all the Firing Squad bullshit please.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Little reveal in the latest BTE episode. Omega says he may be working with a broken heel (as in his foot, not a flawed character). That might explain why the chair shot to his leg was played up.

*the way it was presented, I didn't feel like it was a work

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Can we stop with the DQs in the G1 and all the Firing Squad bullshit please.

They're doing what the goal seemed to be: get some heels heat.

Between them & Jay White, that seems to be priority one for this year.

re: And just wait til they split LiJ

[RainMaker]

Sort of still catching up on stuff but I thought that Okada/Page match was great. Never really got into Page but Okada made him look like a star.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Holy crap, Slammiversary was wild. Going in with very low expectations helped but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Way better than most of the WWE PPVs this year, and who expected that coming from Impact?

I know I'm a puss for this but I really hate that arm breaking stuff. I don't know why but it's the one thing in wrestling that makes me squirm.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Sort of still catching up on stuff but I thought that Okada/Page match was great. Never really got into Page but Okada made him look like a star.

I really like the development Page has made in recent months (that G1 performance wasn't surprising to me at all) but it does take two to tango & Okada was very willing to cooperate with him.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

They're doing what the goal seemed to be: get some heels heat.

Between them & Jay White, that seems to be priority one for this year.

re: And just wait til they split LiJ

They have gone separate directions. It seems White is still having decent enough matches while the Firing Squad is turning in garbage DQs at this point. They have actually made them less interesting to me so far. White needed to win a couple clean to this point IMO, but I give him more leeway as I think he has consistently turned in excellent singles matches since his return. The Bullet Club OGs have basically embarrassed themselves so far this G1 and turned something I was excited for post San Fran into a joke. Also with White I think using chairs and that kind of stuff (announce tables etc, could do with less red bumps honestly) is starting to get normalized at this point while the Bullet Club is just going straight cheating DQ bull crap after putting on a terrible match.

As I say all this I have to admit that Minoru Suzuki is a guilty pleasure of mine. White reminds me more of Suzuki while the OGs remind me more of the WWE bull crap that I stopped watching for a reason.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

As I say all this I have to admit that Minoru Suzuki is a guilty pleasure of mine.

I have zero guilt in called King Suzuki one of the most enjoyable characters in all of wrestlers for me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Now talking about guilt ... I'm kinda sheepish to admit that I thought the Ellsworth vs AJ & Paige promo was weirdly entertaining.

edit to add: On a separate WWE note, I hadn't seen Vince from RAW until a little while ago. Holy hell, he looks like a cadaver.

[murrayyyyy]

Three deaths in pro wrestling today (third is being debated online). Brickhouse Brown, Nikolai Volkoff and Brian Christopher. Christopher hung himself in jail after a DUI a few days ago and mixed reports on if he has actually passed or not. Some say he's barely alive while Lawler's podcast partner says he has passed away. Either way a dark day for wrestling.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Damn, that's a rough overnight.

The shoot interviews Volkoff did over the years were pretty interesting, particularly in the sense that you could tell he wasn't completely comfortable breaking kayfabe entirely. Seemed like a pretty good guy (which is often the case with fantastic heels).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Now talking about guilt ... I'm kinda sheepish to admit that I thought the Ellsworth vs AJ & Paige promo was weirdly entertaining.

edit to add: On a separate WWE note, I hadn't seen Vince from RAW until a little while ago. Holy hell, he looks like a cadaver.

I noticed this too with Vince. Felt like he hadn't aged in decades but father time catches up to us all. Plus I believe he's had issues with his hips so he probably can't work out like a madman like he used to.

In a sad way it's probably why he's kept himself off TV. He's always been keen on age when it came to on-air personalities and he seems content to let HHH and Stephanie handle those duties.

Also Ellsworth is a guilty pleasure of mine. I find the guy entertaining as hell.

[JonInMiddleGA]

G1 is a grind ... but with the kid out of town for most of the past week, being 12 hours behind makes catching up feel impossible (since he leaves tomorrow for several more days away).

Between trying to avoid spoilers and getting out of the flow, the sense of the whole thing is a LOT less right now :/

[RainMaker]

There's no way I can keep up. I'm trying to find what others are saying are matches worth the time. If you have any suggestions I'm all ears. Been trying to watch it in the background while I do other stuff but I just end up missing things.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There's no way I can keep up. I'm trying to find what others are saying are matches worth the time. If you have any suggestions I'm all ears. Been trying to watch it in the background while I do other stuff but I just end up missing things.

We managed -- between tornado warnings tonight -- to get thru one show.

Sanada vs Ibushi was solid, Juice & Omega was fine.

Whatever the hell night that was (8? 7? 9?)

[dubb93]

Check out the Ishii matches. Ishii-Goto was amazing, Ishii-Ibushi was good as well. You can basically skip A block at this point. I would not even turn on the last A block show. There wasn't a single match on there that was anything more than "meh, that was alright."

I'm behind one show. Will be behind two shows after tonight I guess. I'll try to catch up tomorrow.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Naito vs Tama Tonga (night whatever it was) ... I'm not sure whether to be pleased with myself that I predicted what Tama's post-show press conference promo would be or if I should be disappointed with the writing.

That's something that I do recommend for people trying to follow things, watching the post-show pressers once the sub-titled versions are released. There's both some good lines in those most nights and occasional foreshadowing and/or storytelling being done.

Plus, I like seeing guys like Henare working to develop their mic skills. (He's probably gotten more mic time just from being on the curtainjerking G1 tag matches than he's had his entire career)

[dubb93]

Night 14, start at Zack Sabre Jr vs. Juice Robinson and watch the final three matches. All of them sniff are 3*+ (if you have to skip one then skip the Juice match), one nearly hits 5* in my book and the other is somewhere between 4-4.5*. Would have to watch that one again to really nail down a rating, but it’s all must see TV. One of the best nights of the G1 so far.

[dubb93]

If anyone is still cherry picking matches, I’d catch Hangman Page vs Minoru Suzuki from night 15. It wasn’t as good as some of the better B Block matches, but it was an extremely fun brawl to watch. I was a big fan of Big Mike vs Tanahashi up until the end, which completely ruined the whole package for me. If there is one thing you simply have to nail it is the ending.

[dubb93]

Tonight/tomorrow (whenever it happens in the middle of the night) is Naito/Sanada and Omega/Yano. Ishii has been the real MVP this G1 and he faces Juice. If nothing else....it should be fun to watch. I just hope Yano/Omega (which by my watch is the main event!?!?!?!?) delivers all the lawls it has the potential to.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ishii vs Ibushi from night ... wtfever it was/is ... match of the G1 to that point I think. Helluva fight. 2 guys who don't look like they would click, the chemistry is remarkable.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ishii vs Ibushi from night ... wtfever it was/is ... match of the G1 to that point I think. Helluva fight. 2 guys who don't look like they would click, the chemistry is remarkable.

Ishii’s G1 has been simply amazing. He has been in my three favorite matches of this G1.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Whatever night was Page vs White, I really enjoyed (again) watching the tiny evolution of White. (Page is fully into the evolution stage, he might be on his way to becoming a full blown star afaic).

White has sooooo much to learn but I'm enjoying the way he's handling his post-match interviews, because he's keeping it simple & staying on message. The character isn't all that deep, but he's doing a good job with something a lot of people fail to do, which is making his stuff believable.

And in this match, the moment that stood out was simple yet entirely effective: go for a chair attack, ref stops it, so you slide the chair across the ring & make the ref chase it ... and whack Page with another chair out of ref view.

That's just good simple heel work right there, felt like a veteran move well beyond his years, and he executed it with a fluid motion that I eventually figured out reminded me of Larry Zbyzsko. (kid said Kevin Sullivan woulda done it too)

[dubb93]

New Japan has officially started entering the PG era. My analysis if anyone cares.

On one hand wrestling doesn’t have to have the cursing and the middle fingers and such, but it is something that adds to the rawness of the product in a pre 1990 NWA kind of way that is largely missing from other major wrestling companies. I also think with the way the Firing Squad stuff has been such a focus of the G1 that this is not something that was passed along to the booking team ahead of time. This tells me that this was a unilateral decision of the new president that just took over a few months ago. That is the part that worries me. I stopped watching WWE because they stopped caring if I watched. I simply stopped being their target audience. I believe that outside of Japan there probably aren’t a lot of children watching NJPW. I believe it is mostly people that want to watch the product they are putting on because they enjoy wrestling and NJPW is putting on a fairly adult orientated product with some excellent wrestling. I also believe that this is not the new presidents vision of wrestling. I believe this is probably the first change and that there will be many more to come and if he isn’t consulting the wrestling minds inside the company (and there is a lot of evidence he is not) I think there could be a substantial neutering of the product over the next couple years as he asserts his vision which appears at first glance to be PG/kids/sponsor friendly wrestling. If he tries to beat WWE at their own game on the global market he is going to get put out of business by Vince McMahon. I don’t know a bunch about NJPW past presidents but do they generally allow themselves to be ran by old, white, nonwrestling guys or is this something new for them?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

New Japan has officially started entering the PG era.

I thought about this (with Juice constantly chastising himself for dropping f bombs in the post match) but then there's Fale's new shirt & catch phrase.

Perhaps it will remain similar to before but it'll be more of a face/heel divide* thing. (something I felt like Juice referenced when he said "if I don't stop, I'll never get an action figure")

Harold Meij isn't exactly your typical your old, white, non-wrestling guy. Born in The Netherlands but spent his early childhood in Japan, then his youth thru college in the U.S. but was back working in Japan by 24 and has been there pretty much the entire 30 years since. He's known for having one of the sharpest marketing minds in the country best I can tell, across multiple industries, he seems to have a knack for knowing how to maximize profit in the country, something that old white guys typically struggle with in such a unique consumer environment.

His fingerprints are clear to me: White, Robinson, and Page, all fitting with his public desire to make the company's stars younger & in short order (I think it was "at least two 28 or younger by the end of the year"). We've gotten at least two "work or shoot" controversies during the G1 (J.R./Barnett and Tama Tonga-inspired new social media policy), I get the feeling that sort of not-quite-sure stuff may be his doing as well.

But whether the product will change beyond the periphery, it feels too early to tell.

edit to add: *I'm not sure a bit more definition to the face/heel divide thing is a bad idea. The company had gotten a bit "Stone Cold tweener" heavy, the majority of the top guys had gotten to the point of being cool heels. Chaos were heels, likewise Bullet Club and LiJ, now even Suzuki-gun (or at least The King himself) are all face pops. A pure face here & there isn't a bad thing, especially with crowds in Japan, even today. Can't ride The Ace forever. And Juice probably isn't gonna be Tanahashi, no matter how hard he works. And Switchblade can't be the only heel in the company, nor are the O.G.s enough on their own as constituted (though they're certainly trying).

[RainMaker]

I'm kind of surprised with how poorly Juice has done. I figured he'd build on last year's performance and at least win 5 or 6 matches. The whole thing really just makes his US title look weak.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm kind of surprised with how poorly Juice has done. I figured he'd build on last year's performance and at least win 5 or 6 matches. The whole thing really just makes his US title look weak.

But I think he's probably been right there (through where I am so far at least, as we try to catch up) with Ishii in term of being consistently good throughout.

Plus, the injury gives cover to any weakness perception

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mae Young Classic night two taping spoiler involving an injury

Spoiler

Tegan Nox, who missed last year's MYC with an ACL injury, suffered a broken leg during night two tapings. Crowd reportedly stunned into silence as she tried to work through it before medical staff intervened & called for the stoppage. That's some awfully shitty luck

)

[dubb93]

This post will be spoiler free as far as results go, but I’m watching the Budokan first show which also happens to be the first show under the new mandate. So far we have Gedo saying “shit” repeatedly during his match. ZSJ mumbling cuss words. A guy using a finisher called “Apeshit,” which the announcers called by name. A guy wearing a shirt that says “Fuck Em’.” And a guy repeatedly using the middle finger. I’m not sure if this is a work in progress or a silly angle of some sort.

EDIT: Togi also yelled “Fuck you,” to his opponent, forgot that one. And as the show goes on just too much of the banned stuff going on to keep up on.

[Toddzilla]

Colt Cabana sues CM Punk for $1.2 Mil - is this bizzaro world?

hxxps://www.pwtorch.com/site/2018/08/10/colt-cabana-files-lawsuit-against-longtime-friend-c-m-punk-claiming-he-reneged-on-promise-to-pay-his-legal-bills-in-wwe-doctor-lawsuit/

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

This post will be spoiler free as far as results go, but I’m watching the Budokan first show which also happens to be the first show under the new mandate.

Ahhh. I guess in trying to remain as spoiler free as possible while we continue to play catch up, I've missed any sort of "new mandate" with regard to the presentation of the product. Only thing I knew about along those lines was a general "clean up your act" edict after Tama landed himself in Twitter jail.

Nothing about that, as I interpreted it, was intended to have any impact on the actual product at all.

So it sounds as though I may have missed something that's occurred in the gap between where we are in the shows & now.

We do still have hope of catching up in time for the final, got through 3 shows yesterday/last night, another binge tonight and we'll be in range of catching up completely tomorrow.

[dubb93]

New mandate came down yesterday from the president himself that no cuss words spoken in English and no middle fingers as he thinks those are considered taboo by international audiences and NJPW is trying to expand internationally. It is what prompted my post yesterday. As I said I don’t have a problem with those exactly....but I think he’s missing his international audience and I also think it is a slippery slope towards the PG era that WWE has become. I also don’t think PG wrestling is exactly something he will be successful with outside of Japan.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

New mandate came down yesterday from the president himself that no cuss words spoken in English and no middle fingers as he thinks those are considered taboo by international audiences and NJPW is trying to expand internationally. It is what prompted my post yesterday. As I said I don’t have a problem with those exactly....but I think he’s missing his international audience and I also think it is a slippery slope towards the PG era that WWE has become. I also don’t think PG wrestling is exactly something he will be successful with outside of Japan.

Yeah, that'll be a vibe killer then, some of the unplanned/incidental stuff is among the greatest charms of the promotion really. Or at least, among the greatest charms of watching the shows on njpwworld

As far as "expanding" the international audience, either he's completely misread who is interested in NJPW and has given them the international expansion they've gotten so far OR he's grossly overestimating how much more available audience there is for any pro wrestling product in 2018

I guess he's thinking WWE level -- which is fine in & of itself -- but he's barking up the wrong tree there if he thinks the path to that is duplicating them. They aren't going to take that market share away in large numbers.

They can cobble together pieces of that AND draw from outside it but duplicating it isn't a thing and isn't gonna BE a thing. I'd compare that to being a import softdrink trying to compete with Coca-Cola.

If taken at face value however this does possibly make the rumors of certain impending departures make a little more sense (and feel more likely). If you're not gonna be allowed creative control to the extent you're used to -- which is really what this comes down to, specifics be ... darned -- then you might as well take VKM's money and reduce your travel schedule considerably.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I was a big fan of Big Mike vs Tanahashi up until the end, which completely ruined the whole package for me. If there is one thing you simply have to nail it is the ending.

Just saw it. I wasn't all that into the match but, damn, that ending. Neither looked good nor felt good.

[JonInMiddleGA]

1.5 shows to go to be caught up. 9.5 hours til the G1 final starts live.

We can do this.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And now, a nap before getting back to watching live in about 3.5 hours

Advice to future G1 Climax viewers: don't get behind, getting caught up on multiple multiple days is a bitch

[JonInMiddleGA]

A certainly fine enough main event -- I wouldn't go past 4.25* honestly -- but overall a rather disappointing show due to a lackluster undercard.

The "surprise announcement" turned out to be ... that WK will be held Jan 4 at the Tokyo Dome. Golly, nobody saw that coming {eye roll}

Nice to see Honma looking much better physically, super to see Shibata at Tanahashi's second.

On the whole, there were some super individual performances during the tournament as a whole, Ishii the MVP and Juice probably next (despite his record), a number of others had moments. There were some notable story/character elements (Jay White was downright fantastic executing what he was given) but overall the OG stuff was overdone so badly that it almost balanced that out.

Hard for me to not call this year's G1 Climax mildly disappointing, and the Final shockingly underwhelming aside from the main event.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by dubb93

New mandate came down yesterday from the president himself that no cuss words spoken in English and no middle fingers as he thinks those are considered taboo by international audiences and NJPW is trying to expand internationally. It is what prompted my post yesterday. As I said I don’t have a problem with those exactly....but I think he’s missing his international audience and I also think it is a slippery slope towards the PG era that WWE has become. I also don’t think PG wrestling is exactly something he will be successful with outside of Japan.

Unless this is how they will bring their talent over to the US through by meshing kayfabe and reality. So a guy/group gets "suspended" from NJPW and ends up in ROH/IMPACT for 3 months making a name for themselves here. I think their US shows selling out quickly and the Bucks merchandising probably has a lot of NJPW guys wondering how they can make their own brand work in the US.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Unless this is how they will bring their talent over to the US through by meshing kayfabe and reality. So a guy/group gets "suspended" from NJPW and ends up in ROH/IMPACT for 3 months making a name for themselves here. I think their US shows selling out quickly and the Bucks merchandising probably has a lot of NJPW guys wondering how they can make their own brand work in the US.

Possible, but that might be sillier than simply doing a variant of Stone Cold vs McMahon (notable that we saw the new boss on camera, actively involved, at least twice during the weekend).

I mean, fans of pretty much all the promotions involved are largely wise to the fact about working relationships between the companies. There's not much kayfabe left about that, especially not where these companies are concerned.

Not saying you're wrong, just saying that it'd be kinda goofy of them to go that route with it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart death reported by the WWE (among others).

Just 63, no cause of death given so far.

Rest in peace.

[albionmoonlight]

Man. I was born in 1976, so the Hart Foundation WWF run was in the core of my fanboy years. RIP, Jim.

[molson]

Saw this kind of depressing photo on reddit

https://i.imgur.com/JfExTwA.png

And of course, Hart has had a serious stroke and prostate cancer in the meantime.

[RainMaker]

When I was a kid I was big into tag team wrestling. Hart Foundation vs Demolition was one of my favorite feuds. And I loved the 2 out of 3 falls match at Summerslam.

[RainMaker]

Ambrose is back and boy did he get jacked when he was out. Also the new hair makes him look a bit like HHH.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Ambrose is back and boy did he get jacked when he was out.

Yeeeeeeah.

Kinda looked like a photo from a different pro wrestling era frankly.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeeeeeeah.

Kinda looked like a photo from a different pro wrestling era frankly.

Allegedly, John. You have to say allegedly nowadays.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Allegedly, John. You have to say allegedly nowadays.

He's the 2nd guy I've seen in the past couple weeks that reminded me of {cough} a bygone era.

Probably just pure coincidence.