2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[GrantDawg]

Mine, too. And I had already stopped following the real Trump crazy. These are the more moderate Trump people. They all have attacked the election in the last few days, and are now going to that other sight. I think people on this board is underestimating the number of people that are believing this election was stolen. This is not going to end quietly.

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[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Mine, too. And I had already stopped following the real Trump crazy. These are the more moderate Trump people. They all have attacked the election in the last few days, and are now going to that other sight. I think people on this board is underestimating the number of people that are believing this election was stolen. This is not going to end quietly.

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Pretty good chunk of Democrats believed the 2016 election was rigged by the Russians. Most Republicans believed Obama wasn't born in this country and legally could not hold office. Yes this is worse but it's par for the course too in modern day politics.

Most of those people going to Parler will be back. The whole point of social media these days is to attack people and there aren't many targets on Parler. FFS the people who own is post more on Twitter than Parler.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Drake

Like everything else Democrat, we'll talk about it for awhile and actually do nothing. We're essentially the Susan Collins of political parties.

How many 'centrist' Democrats really want Pelosi gone though? I doubt it's that many.

It's really the left that wants her gone.

[Ben E Lou]

Not good. Not good at all.

New polling shows a massive drop in trust in elections among Republicans. 7 in 10 GOP voters say the 2020 election was not free and fair. https://t.co/CPIP5juQ09 pic.twitter.com/fjNW1g6UrJ

— Nick Laughlin (@nick_d_laughlin) November 9, 2020

[ISiddiqui]

Also I've watched CNN for decades. They've never broadcast every single daily WH press briefing and have cut away from press briefings plenty of times well before Trump (granted this is Fox News, but I'm providing some context).

[GrantDawg]

That's what I am saying, Ben. And I believe that number may be light.

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[whomario]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

That's true, but IMO besides the point. Is it ok for a news network to not broadcast a Biden press conference because they think what he's saying isn't true? Is it the job of the news media to tell people what to think, or to report the news and let people decide for themselves? Remember we're talking specifically about news media here, not editorials/talking heads.

Again, report, not broadcast. The News part here is that his press secretary claimed XYZ. The press conference itself ? That's just the chosen/agreed upon format to inform the press. I might be off, but: they are not all broadcast live by all channels, right ? There is a degree of deciding which are shown and which aren't ?

I really hardly see it as a necessity for the democratic process. Again, i definitely realise it is american tradition and recognize that we in Germany (for obvious reasons) came to a very different understanding of the role that live broadcast 'performance' via broadcast has to play in the democratic process as such.

But maybe it's at least prudent to ask some questions about what type of role it should play in the US. Is it to inform americans or is it to broadcast the White House performance when it pleases them ? I think it's unhealthy to either side to be beholden to the other like that (media/politics). Them both being somewhat dependent on the other imo serves a purpose, so when you have one do whatever the hell they please in terms of conventions/give and take* and the other just play along i find that problematic. Just as i (and the media) found it problematic when the Obama admin limited photographic access and other blocking tactics.

Propaganda replacing Information isn't a trivial problem for a democracy any more than censorship is.

* I mean, has everybody forgotten all the Shit the Trump admin pulled like excluding Journalists from "press gaggles" and briefings or themselves banning TV cameras and live Audio from press briefings ?

[Ksyrup]

I thought for sure they'd file something somewhere today as a "put up or shut up" move to get some momentum, but why show your cards (assuming you have any) if you can get half the country on your side by making allegations? As long as 90% of the elected officials in your party are not foreclosing the possibility of fraud, why shouldt those who follow the party break ranks with the party leaders?

[Ksyrup]

They get MI and PA, Trump "wins."

Sounds like the Trump campaign and the RNC is asking the Republican legislature in Michigan to throw out the results of the election in Michigan too.

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) November 10, 2020

[Jas_lov]

And Kemp will do it in GA. We're heading down a very dangerous path.

[ISiddiqui]

In GA, though the SecState (who is a Republican) is standing up to a lot of this fraud stuff... which has led to Sen Perdue and Sen Loeffer to call for his resignation.

I think in Michigan and Wisconsin they would do it as well. Because I think those SecStates realize by doing it, they are basically signing off on a literal Civil War (if it happens, I can easily imagine California, NY and other blue states deciding to secede).

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by whomario

report, not broadcast. The News part here is that his press secretary claimed XYZ. The press conference itself ? That's just the chosen/agreed upon format to inform the press. I might be off, but: they are not all broadcast live by all channels, right ? There is a degree of deciding which are shown and which aren't ?

You're right, but in this case this issue is deciding not to broadcast it for the express reason of not believing what they say. If we accept it is ok for the media to do that, they can also do it on an issue that we think is true and vital.

Originally Posted by whomario

I mean, has everybody forgotten all the Shit the Trump admin pulled like excluding Journalists from "press gaggles" and briefings or themselves banning TV cameras and live Audio from press briefings ?

No, I thought it was wrong then, I think it was wrong now, I made reference to that as one of my biggest issues with Trump in one of the other threads ... I don't know anyone on this forum who thinks that was ok.

Originally Posted by whomario

Propaganda replacing Information isn't a trivial problem for a democracy any more than censorship is.

That's the rub though. Who gets to decide what is propaganda and what is important news? I'm not saying they should play it and then not challenge in any way what was said. Broadcasting what actually happened is more credible that reporting it on it without broadcasting it, because you're getting it firsthand not secondhand. After that you can have the usual commentary between people who agree/disagree, present different points of view, and so on. But when you preempt that by just saying 'they're wrong so we're not even going to show it to you and give you the option', then the media have become the propagandists.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by KSyrup

They get MI and PA, Trump "wins."

This is the point where we find out what we're made of. I don't think they'll be able to get states to go along with this, but if we do the systems is really that broken already.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

In GA, though the SecState (who is a Republican) is standing up to a lot of this fraud stuff... which has led to Sen Perdue and Sen Loeffer to call for his resignation.

I think in Michigan and Wisconsin they would do it as well. Because I think those SecStates realize by doing it, they are basically signing off on a literal Civil War (if it happens, I can easily imagine California, NY and other blue states deciding to secede).

Wisconsin law doesn't allow it. The electors are legally required to vote for who won the popular vote and state legislature plays no role in the process. I believe Pennsylvania is similar, but I'm not certain.

I honestly think this is mostly bluster and is more about undermining the Biden administration from the start. They're going to kick and scream about a rigged election to excite the base, get turnout in Georgia, and then use the election as justification for blocking anything dems want to do.

[kingfc22]

This is all just depressing that we let a single con man destroy our country.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

My wife's FB feed is just a steady stream of people posting their new Parler accounts.

they will find it as enticing as Google Plus (RIP)

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

This is all just depressing that we let a single con man destroy our country.

This is exactly where I am with all of this. We all knew this was going to happen from the White House, but to have high ranking officials support this craziness is really surprising and depressing.

[Atocep]

My wife's family are all moving to Parler. Her step dad had his facebook account deleted after a countless number of temp bans. He would laugh about the bans and the stupid shit he would post to own the libs that resulted in the bans, but when his account was deleted he posted about how facebook won't tell him why his account was deleted and about how he lost his work calendar with appointments. Just completely playing dumb and trying to play the victim card.

[molson]

I have to remember to thank my girlfriend's family for being awesome. I have no looney exposure. Though, it does make those people seem less human to me. Like they're fictional villains.

Edit: The closest I get is comments I see on my friends' posts, from their family and friends. I remember one last week about how Hillary Clinton started a Marxist Lesbian revolution that included paying Colin Kaepernick to kneel.

[Izulde]

An associate of mine posted today asking for information about Parler to see if he should start a business page/account there as well. He stays away from politics, so this was a perfectly innocent question.

It turned into a shitstorm in less than 5 posts. He ended up saying he regretted even asking and did a lot of deleting (though I'm not sure if that was just deleting status/comments or unfriending people as well). Very frustrating experience for him.

[Atocep]

Doesn't the Parler user agreement require you to pay legal expenses in the event they're sued because of content you posted?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Doesn't the Parler user agreement require you to pay legal expenses in the event they're sued because of content you posted?

Hey, they claim to be the party of personal responsibility, so seems fitting that they would be required to pay for dumb stuff that they do.

[Drake]

I'm happy for folks to go to Parler.

They've been complaining about censorship on social media for years. Let's see what happens when they've got their own platform. I mean, I think they'll devolve into 8kun batshittery pretty quickly, but I'm a fan of having all the crazies in one box.

Everyone knows that it's 100x easier to keep a cat in a box than it is to try to herd them.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Drake

I'm happy for folks to go to Parler.

They've been complaining about censorship on social media for years. Let's see what happens when they've got their own platform. I mean, I think they'll devolve into 8kun batshittery pretty quickly, but I'm a fan of having all the crazies in one box.

Everyone knows that it's 100x easier to keep a cat in a box than it is to try to herd them.

I dunno - I think radicalization is a real danger. But I'm certain that was already happening.

SI

[molson]

I'm listening to an audiobook about a woman who went under cover into the white supremacy chat rooms and boards. There's also kind of an analysis of how those people find each other and evolve their views. In their own safe space, it grows more rapidly and becomes more extreme. But I don't think that that necessarily means that the "right" thing to do is normalize their views on Facebook and other mainstream outlets. I'm not sure there's an "answer" at all, except fighting them at every turn and trying to prevent them from gaining power.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Drake

I'm happy for folks to go to Parler.

They've been complaining about censorship on social media for years. Let's see what happens when they've got their own platform. I mean, I think they'll devolve into 8kun batshittery pretty quickly, but I'm a fan of having all the crazies in one box.

Everyone knows that it's 100x easier to keep a cat in a box than it is to try to herd them.

It's literally ISIS 101 on how to radicalize and recruit extremists to your cause.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I dunno - I think radicalization is a real danger. But I'm certain that was already happening.

SI

I also agree with this 100%. I think it's a coin flip between mass radicalization and the party splintering itself into its own set of purity tests.

I had conservative friends whose judgment I would have otherwise trusted posting articles from The Gateway Pundit on social media today. I'm talking educated people who should be able to track down reliable source data and interpret it.

And I'm like, "What the fuck are you thinking?"

The problem is, I've seen this shit before. My ex-wife was bipolar. I got pretty accustomed to dealing with someone who had a labile grip on reality. What I'm seeing right now reminds me so much of that long, slow slide into delusion that is simultaneously a slow-motion sort of inevitable slide and an explosive collapse of reason all at once. I used to say to my ex, "Hey, I'm worried about you. Hey, you seem to be making some decisions that are out of character for you. Hey, you don't seem to be thinking clearly. Hey, I made an appointment with your psychiatrist. I think you should all have a chat." And then out of nowhere it's, "Oh, you broke into a drug dealer's house and stole his car to protect the kids in the neighborhood."

This feels a lot like that. I think the right has been going slowly crazy for the last four years, and now they're about to have their psychotic break.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Drake

I had conservative friends whose judgment I would have otherwise trusted posting articles from The Gateway Pundit on social media today. I'm talking educated people who should be able to track down reliable source data and interpret it.

Yup. I don’t care if the folks who were already 85% Qanon go over to Parler. My concern is for the people who—as recently as last week—most everyone would have considered somewhere between center right and staunch-but-reasonable conservative. People who had social media feeds that weren’t echo chambers, that were having reasonable back and forths with left-leaning family and friends. It seems like some of *those* folks are going to end up radicalized if fed a steady diet of nothing but information coming from FAR-right sources.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

They get MI and PA, Trump "wins."

Sounds like the Trump campaign and the RNC is asking the Republican legislature in Michigan to throw out the results of the election in Michigan too.

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) November 10, 2020

He needs a third state. MI (16)and PA (20) gets him to 268

[henry296]

Originally Posted by bronconick

He needs a third state. MI (16)and PA (20) gets him to 268

Wisconsin or Georgia recount going his way would do it.

[GrantDawg]

Georgia will be the third state.

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[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

This is the point where we find out what we're made of. I don't think they'll be able to get states to go along with this, but if we do the systems is really that broken already.

And then what do we do?

[Brian Swartz]

We have a full-on Constitutional crisis and we find out if America really has the stomach for civil war (we don't). Unlimited options at that point; the military removing Trump from office by force or supporting his stay, the former I think. But ultimately if it's that broken, Trump is the least of our problems. If we can't agree to a reasonable transition of power then the republic falls instead of waiting a while longer and then falling.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

We have a full-on Constitutional crisis and we find out if America really has the stomach for civil war (we don't). Unlimited options at that point; the military removing Trump from office by force or supporting his stay, the former I think. But ultimately if it's that broken, Trump is the least of our problems. If we can't agree to a reasonable transition of power then the republic falls instead of waiting a while longer and then falling.

If that happens and the republic fails those oh so valuable 401ks drop to pocket change as the US loses the honor of the dollar being the gold standard currency. I am surprised by some democrats that brush this off as just posturing by Trump. Maybe it is but the danger of a miscalculation (Democrat’s never do that) is too great a risk if we are wrong. I feel like We are in the Batman Dark Knight Rises movie and Bane and the Arkham criminals are in charge of Gotham City now.

[molson]

I wonder if the Republicans are setting up some king of negotiation for a transfer of lower. Have a bunch of legal, political, and criminal sticks in the fire, with an offer to drop it all and have Trump leave if the Dems agree to....something. Dems would probably go for it.

[Drake]

The thing that impresses me the most about Tucker Carlson is his ability to be both completely reasonable and batshit crazy in consecutive sentences.

Tucker: We heard you. It’s hard to trust anything. Here’s what we know. - YouTube

Love him or hate him, he's really good at his job.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by rjolley

This is exactly where I am with all of this. We all knew this was going to happen from the White House, but to have high ranking officials support this craziness is really surprising and depressing.

And the con man isn't even doing it because he wants to be president. He doesn't. He'd be happy to go back to golfing. There's no grand principle or crucial second-term goal here. It's just that his ego can't handle losing, so a whole country is going to (potentially) flush its system down the drain just to protect one dude's feelings.

[larrymcg421]

Trump up to 15 cents on Predict It.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Trump up to 15 cents on Predict It.

Free Money...Them markets on predictit are great.

[jbergey22]

Time for the Republican party to sink or swim. They need to fix this before it gets more messy. Think about the 2024 election and dont waste key votes on an election you already lost defending a nutcase.

Why they have any loyalty to the Dumptrain is stunning. All he does is shit on most of them.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Time for the Republican party to sink or swim. They need to fix this before it gets more messy. Think about the 2024 election and dont waste key votes on an election you already lost defending a nutcase.

Why they have any loyalty to the Dumptrain is stunning. All he does is shit on most of them.

Because he's taken over the party and going against him is a political death sentence for any vulnerable GOP member of congress. If he had been trounced and someone like a Linsey Graham had lost their seat it'd be different, but Trump expanding the base to pull in black males and doing fairly well with Latinos is going to feed Trump's power within the party.

This is very likely entirely about Georgia and setting the foundation to go after tougher voter ID laws, ect. Undermining Biden's Presidency from the start is a bonus.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Free Money...Them markets on predictit are great.

Yeah, if Trump somehow wins from here, then the world burns. Who gives a shit about money in that scenario?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Because he's taken over the party and going against him is a political death sentence for any vulnerable GOP member of congress. If he had been trounced and someone like a Linsey Graham had lost their seat it'd be different, but Trump expanding the base to pull in black males and doing fairly well with Latinos is going to feed Trump's power within the party.

This is very likely entirely about Georgia and setting the foundation to go after tougher voter ID laws, ect. Undermining Biden's Presidency from the start is a bonus.

I mean your points are very valid and very likely correct.

I see it as defending a two time popular vote loser and also causing you and your party to lose more of them in between voters because of the lack of trust the party will have if they dont willingly give the concession to Biden.

[JPhillips]

The head of the Election Crime unit at DoJ resigned because Barr's policy,

abrogating the forty-year-old Non-Interference Policy.

They probably won't get away with it, but we're heading down a dark path right now. Now would be a good time for the four GOP Senators that have accepted the election results to force McConnell's hand a bit.

[molson]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Yeah, if Trump somehow wins from here, then the world burns. Who gives a shit about money in that scenario?

He doesn't have to win, it just has to get ugly enough for that price to go up more and sell at a profit. Seems like a decent bet.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

He doesn't have to win, it just has to get ugly enough for that price to go up more and sell at a profit. Seems like a decent bet.

I more meant that this is a reason to bet Biden, because his price is getting so low.

[kingfc22]

How many more days of this nonsense before the stock market reacts? Thursday? Friday?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

How many more days of this nonsense before the stock market reacts? Thursday? Friday?

Yeah that is what I am wondering too.

[bhlloy]

I'm trying to think of a realistic scenario if Trump did steal it. Talk of states seceding are bluster, I think. Not that California wouldn't seriously attempt it, but realistically it's a legal pipe dream and 270 million is still a lot more than 40 million. There would be protests in the street for the better part of a year making BLM look like childs play (especially if we start to get a handle on COVID in January) and serious civil unrest, but I don't think that really moves the needle. Countries that dislike Trump will still dislike Trump but will rely on American trade and business just as much as they did before.

I don't think unions have enough skin in the game to make a dent with nationwide strikes (and you'd probably find in some the majority of their members are Trump supporters anyway). Maybe you get a few principled mega businesses move operations to Canada or overseas, but they are all beholden to shareholders and could never pull out of the US market without immediately killing themselves either. Lots of people go home to their original countries or try to move abroad, but then hey, that's a net positive in this scenario to the perpetrators anyway.

I guess you are hoping the military rises up as one and deposes him, but then are they willing to fight in the streets? And while the Joint Chiefs think Trump is a buffoon are they really willing to see a literal civil war play out if they oppose him?

So outside of massive protests on a scale the world probably hasn't seen and a lot of upheaval, what exactly terrifies me if I'm Mitch McConnell looking at this in early December 2020 deciding whether to throw the weight of the GOP behind an attempt to just reverse results in a few key states? I mean if you just don't accept election results in 2020 we aren't having free and fair elections in 2022 or 2024 anyway, so fuck it right?

[Edward64]

Nice thought exercise here.

If it was 270-268 I would be worried about some shenanigan's (e.g. faithless electors) but it's all drama, distraction, conspiracy theories etc.

The focus should be on the 2 GA senate races (and AK?) and how to give Biden 2 good years.