Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Just for the record ...

Richmond is TV DMA #57 with 553,390 households
Dayton is TV DMA #63 with 498,270 households

You forgot the other thing in the City of Richmond's favor - it's not Dayton, OH.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Just for the record ...

Richmond is TV DMA #57 with 553,390 households
Dayton is TV DMA #63 with 498,270 households

Right, I think I was confusing that with Omaha. But as far as viewing audience within the DMA for the team's games, I think Dayton blows just about everyone else out of the water. Sadly, they have no real national pull.

Don't get me wrong, do I think UD "deserves" to be in the Big East? If you are basing it largely on performance on the court, absolutely not. But then, neither does DePaul or Providence or Seton Hall. Dayton has been mediocre for 30 years, if not more, and they have squandered chance after chance at national relevance. If we end up not playing in the Big East, then we have no one to blame but ourselves... and our shitty coaching decisions.

But, to say that Richmond would be a better choice is pretty ridiculous. Whether you think Dayton is a shithole or not has nothing whatsoever to do with which program has more upside or brings more to the table. Dayton is the proverbial 5 tool player with upside that can't get out of A ball because he can't figure out how to hit a curve. Richmond isn't even the favorite team in their own city. Let's be real here.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Right, I think I was confusing that with Omaha. But as far as viewing audience within the DMA for the team's games, I think Dayton blows just about everyone else out of the water. Sadly, they have no real national pull.

Don't get me wrong, do I think UD "deserves" to be in the Big East? If you are basing it largely on performance on the court, absolutely not. But then, neither does DePaul or Providence or Seton Hall. Dayton has been mediocre for 30 years, if not more, and they have squandered chance after chance at national relevance. If we end up not playing in the Big East, then we have no one to blame but ourselves... and our shitty coaching decisions.

But, to say that Richmond would be a better choice is pretty ridiculous. Whether you think Dayton is a shithole or not has nothing whatsoever to do with which program has more upside or brings more to the table. Dayton is the proverbial 5 tool player with upside that can't get out of A ball because he can't figure out how to hit a curve. Richmond isn't even the favorite team in their own city. Let's be real here.

Well, in fairness, before 4-5 years ago they WERE the favorite basketball team in their city. Ok, maybe it's more fair to say before 2 years ago, they were the basketball program with the most National recognition.

I think you're selling UofR short here. I'm probably biased somewhat on the opposite side from you, but they bring quite a bit to the table as far as Basketball.

[BishopMVP]

For the record, I feel bad for Wade and W&M fans - they went from having a pretty sweet geographically-centric CAA for them to losing VCU, ODU, and now maybe George Mason in like 2 years.

[finketr]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Right, I think I was confusing that with Omaha. But as far as viewing audience within the DMA for the team's games, I think Dayton blows just about everyone else out of the water. Sadly, they have no real national pull.

Don't get me wrong, do I think UD "deserves" to be in the Big East? If you are basing it largely on performance on the court, absolutely not. But then, neither does DePaul or Providence or Seton Hall. Dayton has been mediocre for 30 years, if not more, and they have squandered chance after chance at national relevance. If we end up not playing in the Big East, then we have no one to blame but ourselves... and our shitty coaching decisions.

But, to say that Richmond would be a better choice is pretty ridiculous. Whether you think Dayton is a shithole or not has nothing whatsoever to do with which program has more upside or brings more to the table. Dayton is the proverbial 5 tool player with upside that can't get out of A ball because he can't figure out how to hit a curve. Richmond isn't even the favorite team in their own city. Let's be real here.

As a Dayton native (CJ-grad), my recollection is UD has not always been so mediocre. They seemed to win a fair amount of games and played very tough. I also seem to recall a year where they lost to the eventual national champs 4 years in a row in the Big Dance.

Sadly, Dayton seems to have become more of a shithole than it was when I grew up there and before I moved for economic reasons (1980s-1998). alas, can't imagine them not in a conference with XU anymore.

[tarcone]

B1G getting rid of cross divisional "rivalries". Going to 9 games in 2016. The only guaranteed yearly game is Purdue/Indiana.
Im bummed about this. If Purdue goes East we lose our most hated rival. I mean that was THE game i looked forward to every year.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This actually kinda surprises me in a way.

I've seen the ratings for the games that are already airing. Outside of football, nothing else has a pulse outside of a few markets (Lady Vols b'ball, UK men's hoops, etc).

I'm just not sure where anybody makes their money back on the additional investment honestly. There aren't THAT many vanity advertisers out there, and those that are won't be making a buying decision based on a few thousand extra spots in programs that literally post a 0.0 rating (i.e audience is too small to be reliably measured).

But everyone else is doing it. Why learn from mistakes when you can just copy theirs?

SI

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by tarcone

B1G getting rid of cross divisional "rivalries". Going to 9 games in 2016. The only guaranteed yearly game is Purdue/Indiana.
Im bummed about this. If Purdue goes East we lose our most hated rival. I mean that was THE game i looked forward to every year.

I'm pretty sure IU will end up in the East. Lots of football heavyweights already in. They'll be looking to put in a cupcake team (even if IU is improving quickly). Plus, Purdue is farther west than IU.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I'm pretty sure IU will end up in the East. Lots of football heavyweights already in. They'll be looking to put in a cupcake team (even if IU is improving quickly). Plus, Purdue is farther west than IU.

Also puts IU and MSU together for their trophy game.

[Izulde]

I'm also of the impression that Richmond is better academically than Dayton, but I could be wrong.

[cartman]

Georgia Southern and Appalachian State are moving up from the FCS ranks to join the Sun Belt conference.

Appalachian State Mountaineers, Georgia Southern Eagles to join Sun Belt, according to sources - ESPN

[britrock88]

As long as the program remains somewhat successful, I can see App State doing well in the FBS -- and they do have those 3 straight FCS titles from '05-'07 to hang their hats on. The couple of times I've been to Kidd Brewer Stadium in the last several years, the stadium was jammed (it has grown from 16.5k to 24k capacity in that timeframe), even in cold weather. And I think the Mountaineers can shrug off rivals like Western Carolina (who's pretty moribund) for Sun Belt teams, and it doesn't hurt to bring Georgia Southern along.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

Georgia Southern and Appalachian State are moving up from the FCS ranks to join the Sun Belt conference.
[/url]

Hell, Southern is already the 2nd best football program in the state.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I don't know that I would take George Mason... I would like Davidson quite a bit, though. Siena is also a meh for me.

Atlantic 10 Conference Adds George Mason University as Full Member - Atlantic 10 Conference Official Athletic Site

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by cartman

Georgia Southern and Appalachian State are moving up from the FCS ranks to join the Sun Belt conference.

Appalachian State Mountaineers, Georgia Southern Eagles to join Sun Belt, according to sources - ESPN

Instantly making App State one of my favorite teams in the FBS.


Man I want A NEW FOF: TCY so BADLY

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Man I want A NEW FOF: TCY so BADLY

Would you say you yearn for TCY2? Cause I yearn.

SEINFELD "THE KEYS" (DO YOU EVER YEARN?) - YouTube

[cartman]

Idaho and New Mexico State will be joining the Sun Belt as football only members.

Idaho Vandals, New Mexico State Aggies headed for Sun Belt Conference in 2014, sources say - ESPN

[Buccaneer]

I'm trying to catch up here and saw that the former Big East got a long term deal (football and basketball??). Can someone tell me the annual per team payout for:
former Big East now
former Big East before
new Big East
upgraded ACC
Mountain West

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I'm trying to catch up here and saw that the former Big East got a long term deal (football and basketball??). Can someone tell me the annual per team payout for:
former Big East now
former Big East before
new Big East
upgraded ACC
Mountain West

Google Machine searching yielded the following. I searched because I too, was curious:

MWC: Mountain West
10 years, $120 million, CBS College Sports (through 2016)
Annual: $12 million
Average Annual per School: $1.33 million

CUSA
5 years, $35 million, CBS College Sports (through 2016)
5 years, $35 million, Fox (through 2016)
Annual: $14 million
Average Annual per School: $1.17 million

SEC: 15 years, $2.25 billion, ESPN (through 2024)
15 years, $825 million, CBS (through 2024)
Annual: $205 million
Average Annual per School: $17.1 million

Assuming the conference maintains its current lineup of 14 members, the combination of new deals with ESPN and CBS, along with the formation of a 100% SEC-owned network, would bring the SEC schools nearly $23 million apiece in 2014-15, according to an estimate prepared for USA TODAY Sports by a college sports rights-valuation firm.

ACC: 15 years, $3.6 billion, ESPN (through 2027)
Annual: $240 million
Average Annual per School: $17.1 million
(This includes the additions)

ORIGINAL BIG EAST: 6 years, $200 million, ABC/ESPN [CBS contributes $9 million of total] (through 2013)
Annual: $40 million
Average Annual per School: $3.18 million for football schools, $1.56 million for non-football schools

OLD BIG EAST (NEW TV DEAL): That will bring the Big East's total media rights value to about $22 million annually, starting in 2014 and, based on a 12-team league, worth about $1.8 million per school annually.

The Big East Conference confirmed Saturday that ESPN has matched a media rights deal offer, keeping the network as the league's primary rights holder.

The deal is for seven years and worth $130 million through the 2019-20 school year, league sources said. The Big East's new deal is worth less per school than its current ESPN deal and six times less than what ESPN presented two years ago. (LINK)

Just the other day:

The soon-to-be renamed Big East will collect a total of $4 million over seven years for men's basketball games broadcast on CBS beginning in 2014, two sources with knowledge of the contract told CBSSports.com.

The basketball deal, which gives CBS the rights for up to 12 league appearances per season, comes after the announcement of a $126 million contract with ESPN to televise football for the new league. Both deals are for seven years. CBS will have the first selection from conference and non-conference home games, as well as some games played on neutral sites. Half of those appearances will be league games.

NEW BIG EAST/CATHOLIC 7 + 3: 12 years/$500 million deal with new FOX Sports 1 network. Each school will make between $4-5m per season under the new deal.


Big East And Catholic 7 Television Deals Do Not Add Up - Forbes

Combined, the Big East and Catholic 7 are going to $62 million a year with their new television deals. Two years ago ESPN offered the 16-team Big East $1.2 billion over nine years, or $133 million a year (a 270% increase from what it was paying at the time) was turned down by the Big East. The result is that combined the current Big east and Catholic 7 conferences are going to earn half the television money they were offered as one conference in 2011.

[Buccaneer]

Thank you, that's a good summary.

[Buccaneer]

Combined, the Big East and Catholic 7 are going to $62 million a year with their new television deals. Two years ago ESPN offered the 16-team Big East $1.2 billion over nine years, or $133 million a year (a 270% increase from what it was paying at the time) was turned down by the Big East. The result is that combined the current Big east and Catholic 7 conferences are going to earn half the television money they were offered as one conference in 2011.

So the Providence Mafia shot themselves in the foot? I added MWC so I could see context compared to the northeast.

[Abe Sargent]

Yeah, great post YD

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So the Providence Mafia shot themselves in the foot? I added MWC so I could see context compared to the northeast.

Well actually, Georgetown and the basketball schools -- not all -- were the reason they turned down the first deal. They thought they could get more on the open market. Then all hell broke loose and they came out way worse.

But yes, ultimately, the Providence clan were to blame for their consistent blunders and overplaying their hand.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So the Providence Mafia shot themselves in the foot? I added MWC so I could see context compared to the northeast.

No. Those numbers were based on the composition of the Big East at that time (plus the future expansion). Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers, Louisville and I believe TCU and Boise State all included. Take out all those teams, and the value drops enormously. The biggest and dumbest misconception parroted by the media is that if the Big East took the deal when it was offered, none of the movements would have taken place. Every school would have still left for the better deal they received (or will receive). The network would have invoked the out clauses in the deal and the Big East would be right back at this spot.

[Buccaneer]

So schools like Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville et al goes from roughly $3m/year to $17m?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So schools like Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville et al goes from roughly $3m/year to $17m?

WVU actually got bumped up to $21 million for joining the Big 12. They are getting a partial share of the Big 12 revenue, due to a loan they took out from the conference to help with their Big East exit fees. They will get a full $26 million share in the 2015 season.

http://www.wvgazette.com/Sports/201206010255

[Buccaneer]

So WVU went ahead a paid the full exit fee so they could jump early, while Syracuse and Pitt decided to wait it out?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So WVU went ahead a paid the full exit fee so they could jump early, while Syracuse and Pitt decided to wait it out?

No, Syracuse and Pitt were obligated to wait until July 1, 2014 to exit the league based on the 27 month requirement for withdrawal as stated by the conference bylaws, and in doing so would pay a $5MM exit fee. They were able to pay $10MM instead to leave for 2013.

[Buccaneer]

How much did WVU had to pay to exit in 2012?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

How much did WVU had to pay to exit in 2012?

$20 million.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Logan

No, Syracuse and Pitt were obligated to wait until July 1, 2014 to exit the league based on the 27 month requirement for withdrawal as stated by the conference bylaws, and in doing so would pay a $5MM exit fee. They were able to pay $10MM instead to leave for 2013.

I thought it was 7.5MM for Pitt and Cuse.

And the problem with WVU's 20MM was that a portion of it had to be used to get Temple out of the MAC early.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So schools like Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Louisville et al goes from roughly $3m/year to $17m?

I believe WVU was getting around $6 million from the Big East after bowl payouts and everything else while in the Big East. That is expected to go up to over $30 million per year once the full share from the Big 12 kicks in (plus bowl payouts, ect) and the Tier 3 deal is finalized.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So WVU went ahead a paid the full exit fee so they could jump early, while Syracuse and Pitt decided to wait it out?

Syracuse and Pitt had a landing spot (already invited to and agreed to join the ACC). They and the ACC were alright with the possibility of waiting it out for 27-months (although, it had been speculated that they would get out a season early).

The Big 12 needed to remain at 10 teams to retain their TV contract (after losing Missouri and A&M and adding TCU) and invited WVU to join for the 2012 season. WVU, knowing that the Big East was a sinking ship, paid $20M to avoid the 27-month exit agreement so they could join the following season.

There was speculation that, if WVU would not have been able to join for the 2012 season, they may not have gotten an offer (or someone else, like Louisville, would have stepped up and paid).

[Swaggs]

Somewhat ironically, WVU probably would have finally gotten their long-coveted invitation to the ACC after Maryland left, but they had signed the GOR and paid the buyout to join the Big 12 already.

WVU will make more money playing in the Big 12 and have better access to bowls, but has no traditional or regional rivals, which sucks.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Somewhat ironically, WVU probably would have finally gotten their long-coveted invitation to the ACC after Maryland left, but they had signed the GOR and paid the buyout to join the Big 12 already.

WVU will make more money playing in the Big 12 and have better access to bowls, but has no traditional or regional rivals, which sucks.

While this season ended poorly after a strong start, and was disappointing from that regard, I enjoyed the crap out of the Baylor game and the Texas games, but eventually, too many teams I don't care about ruined the season, you know?

[Abe Sargent]

Of course another problem is the Big XIII vs ACC battle we all expect some day to figure out who is the 4th in the dance, if the ACC wins, the remnants of teh Big Xii willl find some major leagues, but WVU could be left holding their hat, because th ACC will want bigger teams that us I suspect.

[BishopMVP]

Western Kentucky from Sun Belt to C-USA. Tulsa probably to the Big East. I believe that means James Madison to the Sun Belt. FCS football is dead.

[britrock88]

More room for the Northwest!

[Logan]

The former Big East will be known as the AAC (American Athletic Conference).

[Logan]

Ha

@celebrityhottub

AAC? Somebody wanted to be first in the phone book.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah it's not the worst name in the world. A lot better than what I thought they'd come up with, honestly.

[molson]

Can't wait for those ACC v. AAC showdowns. And for reporters' attempts at describing them as such.

[Young Drachma]

If you can't beat 'em, brand as close to them as possible.

[Buccaneer]

I was thinking about the new ACC (with SU/Pitt, then Louisville) and how that will become even more of a power basketball conference while still remaining a mediocre football one. How much does/will basketball generate for ACC (tickets and/or TV money) compare to football?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I was thinking about the new ACC (with SU/Pitt, then Louisville) and how that will become even more of a power basketball conference while still remaining a mediocre football one. How much does/will basketball generate for ACC (tickets and/or TV money) compare to football?

ACC, ESPN agree to 15-year extension - Hokies Journal - The Washington Post

[Buccaneer]

Thanks DC. Even as powerful ACC will become in basketball, are the revenues for such small compared to football?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Thanks DC. Even as powerful ACC will become in basketball, are the revenues for such small compared to football?

20% of the ACC revenues go to basketball. So Notre Dame will get 1/15th share in that pie. They won't reap any of the football benefits.

http://www.dukechronicle.com/article...-dame-join-acc

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

20% of the ACC revenues go to basketball. So Notre Dame will get 1/15th share in that pie. They won't reap any of the football benefits.

Notre Dame to join the ACC | The Chronicle

ND gets the football benefits of access to all bowl tie-ins. Under their Big East deal they had limited access to Big East bowls.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

While this season ended poorly after a strong start, and was disappointing from that regard, I enjoyed the crap out of the Baylor game and the Texas games, but eventually, too many teams I don't care about ruined the season, you know?

Not excited about that final Big XII game against Kansas last season?!? There was all sorts of drama like could Geno Smith get over 400 yards (yes), could WVU put up 60 on Kansas (no! 59-10, bitches!), and more!

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Press conference date and time set to announce new SEC network.....

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/D...?hl=slive&sc=0