Werewolf XLIV: The Fightin’ Fundies vs. Them Gays - GAME OVER

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Tacked on the Church Door is the following sign:

The following people have been labelled as Subversive and Liberal and Unmutual:




ntndeacon

Ok...was this what you meant chief? That your the one putting names on the list? Im not sure im ready to kill ntn until i hear from ITC and chief

[hoopsguy]

Agreed - I'm willing to sit on this for a little while. We have all weekend to hear from people.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Ok...was this what you meant chief? That your the one putting names on the list? Im not sure im ready to kill ntn until i hear from ITC and chief

The dots are there to connect. And I'll prove it. I am the one putting the names on the door. And I have hit on three liberal leaning individuals in three nights.

As the head of the Sunday school, I can speak to the children of our village to discover where their parents keep their secrets. And then at night I steal away to their houses to look for them. In doing so, I discovered a check stub made out to the ACLU in DaddyTorgo's house. I also got distinct liberal vibes from the houses of Lathum and ntndeacon.

And on Night Two, I visited Blade and found nothing but a note saying "Not here. Not anymore. Nice try though." ([i]Anxiety, I hope it's okay to quote that particular note).

Thanks to my schedule and Axiety's quick night phases, I actually dropped the ball on Nights 0 and 1, submitting no actions. But since no one died on either side until Day Two, I don't feel too bad about that.

The Blade (N2) finding confirms for me that he is who he says he is, although it doesn't prove his allegiance (I do believe he is a God-fearing Christian).

Tyrith and ImTheCrew's findings confirmed for me both his story and theirs. When Lathum turned up gay both for me and in death, that further confirmed Tyrith (although that is now confirmed by his death as well). Since at the time I thought I was the seer, you can see why I questioned Tyrith's reveal. It turns out we have a lot of information gatherers, it seems. This is why I questioned his reveal and supported Lathum. At the time, I thought Tyrith was lying and I hadn't tested Lathum (N4) yet.

By putting Lathum on the list with a night action, I saved us having to put him back on if he wasn't lying about his duke ability.

DaddyTorgo (N3), I got the impression he had leanings but wasn't one of them gays. But I couldn't be sure--it was the first time I had any information of use from my scans. I wish I could have saved him, but it was the wrong time to reveal as a seer (another reason I didn't buy Tyrith at the time).

More on DT in a sec...

ntndeacon (N5) was a gut feeling. The wolves made mistakes going after KWhit, path12 and bullet, IMO. They all qualify as veterans who were decidely quieter than usual. As such, they would have been targets for my scans. But they were all night killed, so when I scanned the list for candidates, it occurred to me that all of the vocal players and vets had advocates for being good and reasons to believe they were good. Only Ironhead and ntndeacon qualified as truly "quiet". I thought it very odd ntndeacon was so quiet, so he became my target. It looks like we may have found our third gay.

Now for the proof. In post 630, Daddy Torgo revealed (before he died) that he had written a check to the ACLU, showing his liberal leaning. Earlier in the day, he had sought for a hint that soemone knew this detail. Unfortunately, he missed it. My post, #490:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So is Tyrith saying he is the seer? He never actually said it in so many words, so I want to be sure.

DT, it is rather convenient for you to come up with this explanation. If you're one of them gays, obviously, this could be a sign you have been outed. If what you say is true, it could still mean you could be converted. I'm not sure your reveal (regardless of its timing) makes a difference ultimately on whether we should stone you or not. I don't have aclue right now, though, which way I am leaning with you.

Review my post, particularly the bolded words in the section, which is a message directly to DT. There is no typo in this post at all, no grammatical error. Except one. ACLUe. I had hoped DT would get it. But he missed it.

And as hoopsguy said earlier about me, "Elementary Watson".

(sorry it was D6 instead of N4 like you predicted, hoops).

VOTE STONE NTNDEACON

[hoopsguy]

Chief, looking back on the PMs were there any significant differences between what you saw on DaddyTorgo and Lathum? You talked quite a bit about what you learned on DT but not as much on Lathum ...

[Blade6119]

Ill be honest with you chief, since your being honest with me...if it werent for my block of night actions, you would not like what you found about me. Just so im totally forthcoming.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Chief, looking back on the PMs were there any significant differences between what you saw on DaddyTorgo and Lathum? You talked quite a bit about what you learned on DT but not as much on Lathum ...

That was odd actually. I got lots of details about DT and Blade (although no usable details on Blade), but with Lathum and ntndeacon the message was much the same. Along the lines of "you don't find anything in particular, except the distinct impression of liberalness."

It's the fact that ntndeacon had the same sort of message I got from Lathum, a known wolf, that tells me he might be one and the same. I would be less sure if the message differed a bit more, or gave more indidual details.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Ill be honest with you chief, since your being honest with me...if it werent for my block of night actions, you would not like what you found about me. Just so im totally forthcoming.

Is it action-related or just information about you? If it's just a part of your character, but you're good and not able to do actiosn that hurt us, then I am fine with that.

If it is a part of your role and can hurt us, though, obviously, I would want to know more. What exactly is the harm in coming out with it anyway? Even if it was something we would kill you for, it would take at least three days. I find it hard to believe we wouldn't stone ntndeacon today (although information could come out to change that, I suppose), so we couldn't liberalize you. You are unscannable at night so I can't put you on the list. So we would liekly stone ntndeacon, liberalize you, and then stone you. This game isn't going to last that long. So what's the point in hiding this information about your role?

[hoopsguy]

I would like to hear what NTN has to say in his defense, but right now Chief is putting together a pretty nice case.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Is it action-related or just information about you? If it's just a part of your character, but you're good and not able to do actiosn that hurt us, then I am fine with that.

If it is a part of your role and can hurt us, though, obviously, I would want to know more. What exactly is the harm in coming out with it anyway? Even if it was something we would kill you for, it would take at least three days. I find it hard to believe we wouldn't stone ntndeacon today (although information could come out to change that, I suppose), so we couldn't liberalize you. You are unscannable at night so I can't put you on the list. So we would liekly stone ntndeacon, liberalize you, and then stone you. This game isn't going to last that long. So what's the point in hiding this information about your role?

Because if i share what those leanings are(not the same ALCU story, but think DT) then im afraid i will be put on the liberal list. And if it does not end with ntn, or whoever is after, me being on the list could buy evil more time.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, are you worried that the process of posting the "issue" would get you on liberal list? Just how saucy is it?

While I'm intrigued with what this might be, I think there have been enough people coming out with information around you (not about you, since no one seems to interact with you at night) to make me want to finish with the Chief/NTN line of thought first.

[Blade6119]

i voted a certain way in the 04 election...nothing more then that, i just dont want to say flatly i voted for X as it would add me to the liberal list.

[hoopsguy]

* gasp *

[hoopsguy]

Wow, this is slow even by weekend standards.

[st.cronin]

I don't really have anything to add.

[Blade6119]

waiting on ntn and ITC to talk...nothing really to do until those 2 share

[hoopsguy]

I agree with you on that, Blade. Just was hoping for something to work with before heading out for the evening to watch the basketball games.

[Blade6119]

Im heading out for much of the day now, and maybe the night...so it could get even slower

[ImTheCrew]

i went to ironheads house last night and he was asleep all night

[Blade6119]

ITC, answer me...why did you re-scan tyrith?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ImTheCrew

i went to ironheads house last night and he was asleep all night

I thought you might have gone to investigate me. Oh well...would have liked a voucher, although hopefully I have made a strong enough case.

Incidentally, ntndeacon was out when I visited last night, but I had to leave quickly because he was set to return soon.

[ImTheCrew]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

ITC, answer me...why did you re-scan tyrith?

is not really a "scan" i just wanted to make sure that he just didnt do a night action the first time so i did it 2nd time

[Ironhead]

I think Chief makes a very strong argument for ntn. This late in the game I am not willing to cast a stone at him without at least hearing his side of things first. ntn really needs to start talking soon because regardless of what anyone else does it will only take Chief’s vote to kill him.

[ntndeacon]

I am sorry I just got back in town. We had our fantasy baseball draft today.

[ntndeacon]

To answer the allegations laid against me. Yes there is an incident in my past that would lend me to being put up on the liberal list. I am sorry to have to tell you that I ...was involved in an anti Vietnam protest. When I was a young girl of 17, I rebelled some from my upbringing and went to a rally. There are actually pictures of the event showing me being UnAmerican at it. I re-established my lost values soon after..thanks to my boyfriend of the time who guided me back to the faith.

[ntndeacon]

by the way. Sorry I massacred your name Ironhead

[ntndeacon]

I firmly expect to be stoned by the way. Even if Chief does remove his vote as I think he should. For the Gays will know it is another day that they won't be put on the list if I die.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

To answer the allegations laid against me. Yes there is an incident in my past that would lend me to being put up on the liberal list. I am sorry to have to tell you that I ...was involved in an anti Vietnam protest. When I was a young girl of 17, I rebelled some from my upbringing and went to a rally. There are actually pictures of the event showing me being UnAmerican at it. I re-established my lost values soon after..thanks to my boyfriend of the time who guided me back to the faith.

Too bad I didn't get any specifics with you like I did with DT. Nothing I can confirm there. At this point, I'm afraid I don't see a reason to remove my vote.

It's funny because you have had some bad luck in recent WW games recently, getting killed off really early. I commented on it in Lathum's game, after we sent you out early there.

So I leave you alone, and near the end of the game, who's there being a quiet, unassuming veteran? Wny it's ntndeacon!

Hopefully I am right, and you are gay.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I firmly expect to be stoned by the way. Even if Chief does remove his vote as I think he should. For the Gays will know it is another day that they won't be put on the list if I die.

Is there anything about your role or things you can prove or show that you're not one of Them Gays? I'm not saying I will remove my vote, but I'll listen.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I thought you might have gone to investigate me. Oh well...would have liked a voucher, although hopefully I have made a strong enough case.

Incidentally, ntndeacon was out when I visited last night, but I had to leave quickly because he was set to return soon.

Ok something is very strange here. I wasn't out last night.

[hoopsguy]

Guess that answers the question I was about to post.

[hoopsguy]

NTN, have you been out ANY night?

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Too bad I didn't get any specifics with you like I did with DT. Nothing I can confirm there. At this point, I'm afraid I don't see a reason to remove my vote.

It's funny because you have had some bad luck in recent WW games recently, getting killed off really early. I commented on it in Lathum's game, after we sent you out early there.

So I leave you alone, and near the end of the game, who's there being a quiet, unassuming veteran? Wny it's ntndeacon!

Hopefully I am right, and you are gay.

It is a false hope. I hope you have a strategy on someone to check once it os found that I am a faithful member of the Almost Heaven Baptist Church.

Now onto my quietness. I am ALWAYS quiet. if you look at any of the games Iplay I will be near the bottom of posts almost always. (especially when you view them in game). I would be interested in whom you would target next.

[ntndeacon]

Hoops to answer your question more clearly....
I have not been out on any night. furthurmore, I do not have children so how they would lead you towards my secret is beyond me. I do not deny I have the leaning. ALso I am not claiming ChiefRum is not being forthright with us.

[ntndeacon]

I have no proof of my faithfulness. The only proof that you will see is after you stone me like Stephen.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Hoops to answer your question more clearly....
I have not been out on any night. furthurmore, I do not have children so how they would lead you towards my secret is beyond me. I do not deny I have the leaning. ALso I am not claiming ChiefRum is not being forthright with us.

I'm not sure if these inconsistencies aren't due to just the way the game is set up. My role by definition is based on questioning the children where you keep your secrets. I thought it was a parents thing, but maybe it's just all the kids know, so if they're in my class, I can find out. And the PM was clear that you weren't home (which is different from Lathum, he was actually home, and I had to be quiet) when I explored your place. But maybe you were just out getting groceries. For all I know, you not being home wasn't intended to mean anything. But that's beyond what I have been told about the nature of my role.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I have no proof of my faithfulness. The only proof that you will see is after you stone me like Stephen.

Well, who would you suggest going after? If not you, who is your top suspect?

I don't want to say myself just yet, because that could be the deciding point on whether they come after me in the next night phase or ImTheCrew.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Now onto my quietness. I am ALWAYS quiet. if you look at any of the games Iplay I will be near the bottom of posts almost always. (especially when you view them in game). I would be interested in whom you would target next.

I do know that, but even aren't usually this quiet. I have sproadic posting patterns, too, in these games, based on my availability, so you and I often have similar levels of participation (except recently I have been living longer, for whatever reason).

[Chief Rum]

That should be even you aren't usually this quiet.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm not sure if these inconsistencies aren't due to just the way the game is set up. My role by definition is based on questioning the children where you keep your secrets. I thought it was a parents thing, but maybe it's just all the kids know, so if they're in my class, I can find out. And the PM was clear that you weren't home (which is different from Lathum, he was actually home, and I had to be quiet) when I explored your place. But maybe you were just out getting groceries. For all I know, you not being home wasn't intended to mean anything. But that's beyond what I have been told about the nature of my role.

I was actually wondering about that Chief. Whether you had been in the house when anyone was in. do you know where in the house you searched?

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Well, who would you suggest going after? If not you, who is your top suspect?

I don't want to say myself just yet, because that could be the deciding point on whether they come after me in the next night phase or ImTheCrew.

Well Assuming that all Tyrith said was true. there are 4 people that it is offically unclear on whether they are one of the faithful or one of THEM.
you , me, Ironhead, and Blade. If you are good, like you say. I think there is only one place for you to look.

Ironhead

The reason is this. You can't find Blade it seems. so Ironhead is the next place to look.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I was actually wondering about that Chief. Whether you had been in the house when anyone was in. do you know where in the house you searched?

It didn't really give me specifics about what I searched in your place. It just said I didn't find anything right away, but I got a definite liberal vibe. It also said I had to leave before finding anything further because you could be home soon. Obviously, that's how I drew the conclusion you were out.

Lathum was in when I searched his place. I had to be quiet and sneak around like a burglar. The link between him and you is that I got that same liberal vibe with him. And we know what he was.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Well Assuming that all Tyrith said was true. there are 4 people that it is offically unclear on whether they are one of the faithful or one of THEM.
you , me, Ironhead, and Blade. If you are good, like you say. I think there is only one place for you to look.

Ironhead

The reason is this. You can't find Blade it seems. so Ironhead is the next place to look.

But Ironhead now has a voucher in ImTheCrew. He visited him last night. So unless we buy that ImTheCrew is bad as well and lying, then Ironhead wasn't out and about last night.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

But Ironhead now has a voucher in ImTheCrew. He visited him last night. So unless we buy that ImTheCrew is bad as well and lying, then Ironhead wasn't out and about last night.

Then that leaves 2 then doesn't it. However what I was suggesting was someone for you to search as you have on every night we have seen. And since you can't search Blade, and searching yourself is like asking the fox to guard the henhouse (even if you can do that) It leaves only one candidate for you to check.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It didn't really give me specifics about what I searched in your place. It just said I didn't find anything right away, but I got a definite liberal vibe. It also said I had to leave before finding anything further because you could be home soon. Obviously, that's how I drew the conclusion you were out.

Lathum was in when I searched his place. I had to be quiet and sneak around like a burglar. The link between him and you is that I got that same liberal vibe with him. And we know what he was.

The book that was in my house is in the attic. it shows the Anti VeitNam ralley I attended. That is why iasked.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Then that leaves 2 then doesn't it. However what I was suggesting was someone for you to search as you have on every night we have seen. And since you can't search Blade, and searching yourself is like asking the fox to guard the henhouse (even if you can do that) It leaves only one candidate for you to check.

You know, i think my story has checked out. Ive had 3 seperate seers get the exact same result...i have been telling you my role in pieces all game. I think ive earned some measure of trust(though i could be wrong).

[Blade6119]

I will say this...we seem to be in pretty good shape if NTN is evil. What worries me, is that we have/had supposedly 3 seers. And at that, 2 of those 3 have badly mismanaged their scannings(in my opinion, maybe not yours...be it ITC rescanning tyrith to chief flat out missing the first few night actions).

Im just asking myself, do we really have that much firepower on our side? 3 seers, a role that cant be touched at night, and whatever other roles are out there? There were only 14 players, so 3 seers seems heavy. Though i havent seen a BG, so maybe...just thinking out loud here. Hoops, ironhead...have a role that can help us too?

[hoopsguy]

Blade, my ability has potential to be helpful, but it hasn't been realized all game because certain conditions have yet to be met. Which has been a little bit frustrating, but whatever.

Also, I would like to have a little bit better idea of what ImTheCrew is doing. Based on his accounts, we know he is visiting people at their house. Tyrith has vouched that he is good. But what is he doing at their houses, outside of seeing if they are home? Because right now he is the one vouching for Ironhead, and we are getting late enough in the game that I want to put 100% faith in that vouch but don't feel like I can without some more info.

Also I'll be attending mass (ooc/ at a wine tasting event) for a good portion of the day so I won't be around until late afternoon to cast a vote. If I had to vote now, I would probably go along with the NTN vote because we can do it. Not every lynch is going to be a slam dunk like Lathum was earlier - we took a shot earlier on LSG and it worked out. Clearly the liberal thing isn't only associated with gays, but if DaddyTorgo and Blade (leap of faith, since no one can truly vouch for it but what is value add in him revealing this?) were liberals but not gays then how many more of those are likely to be out there?

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I will say this...we seem to be in pretty good shape if NTN is evil. What worries me, is that we have/had supposedly 3 seers. And at that, 2 of those 3 have badly mismanaged their scannings(in my opinion, maybe not yours...be it ITC rescanning tyrith to chief flat out missing the first few night actions).

Im just asking myself, do we really have that much firepower on our side? 3 seers, a role that cant be touched at night, and whatever other roles are out there? There were only 14 players, so 3 seers seems heavy. Though i havent seen a BG, so maybe...just thinking out loud here. Hoops, ironhead...have a role that can help us too?

I would be concerned about a false reveal as you arre suggesting except that the seers seem to be interconnected. we know Tyrith was good. and if we believe him we know ITC is good. Which brings us to ChiefRum, the other seer. his power seems to be to put those with liberal tendencies on the list. we have seen him do it with Them gays and those with weaker tendencies. I think that after I am eliminated from the game and the night victim is chosen, that ChiefRum may still be alive. He did put Lathum on the list. But it we were pretty well convinced that he was gay at the time. So Lathum appearing on the list seemed a godsend to shortcircuit the duke ability Lathum Claimed. The only problem with that is I don't know a single time the duke has only had his powers at night. Perhaps Lathum was put up there with his consent to keep that story alive. It also had the effect of securing ChiefRum on the side of good. How many times have we seen a bad guy turn on another bad guy to be percieved as good.

[Ironhead]

Blade - I don't think I have a role that would help us out in the current situation. I can tell you that I am the Trustee of the church and my responsibility is to oversee the legal and ethical happenings of the church. It is not an information gathering role, but more a position of esteem and influence.

[ntndeacon]

I will stete flatly what I have been insinuating. I am the church's pianist.