WW LII -- Clue (SOCIALITES WIN)

[DaddyTorgo]

not voted: telle, chief rum, ntndeacon, schmidty, sndvls

4/5 of you are in the thread. let's get this hashed out

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

Let me explain again where I'm coming from.

1) Nameless socialites know the identity of Peacock.

2) Certain people have checked in specifically as vanilla or nameless socialites.

3) Certain of those people have demonstrated in subsequent posts that they are not aware of Peacock's identity.

4) I then assume they have a nefarious reason for lying about being a nameless socialite.

I would be careful about just assuming the people are bad for reasons I already pointed out (named socialite also don't know, except, assumedly, Mrs. Peacock). It's a mark against them, but we have better candidates to go after.

Plus, you have to also remember that some out there will still throw out Mrs.Peacock's name, so that it doesn't show that she is being "ignored". Wolves and murderers might pick up on that, ya know?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

B) you continue to suggest we simply accept the list as is so far and depend on Mr Green for the rest, even though as a veteran WW player, you very well know that list is hardly a lock, given that wolves and individual victory seekers supplied at least some of the information. Why are you so accepting of the list, path? Is it because you already know who the murderer is, and you don't want the list being re-evaluated?

Per Pass, there were no duplicate clues given at the start. I'd say that the wolves have no incentive to lie in case of getting caught out. We've only had one duplicate so far.

So yes, in general I trust the list.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

"People Views" for Tonight

ntndeacon VIEW DaddyTorgo
Barkeep49 VIEW Telle
ChiefRum VIEW Schmidty
Schmidty VIEW Saldana
AlanT VIEW LoneStarGirl
saldana VIEW oliegirl
Path12 VIEW RendeR
Telle VIEW Neon_Chaos
Crim VIEW Barkeep49
LoneStarGirl VIEW Swaggs
Swaggs VIEW Crim
SnDvls VIEW AlanT
DaddyTorgo VIEW ChiefRum

st.cronin - if not lynched, take the place of whoever was lynched and make their view

that should give us solid coverage of everyone. i am aware that path+sndvls+ntn are not slated for a 2nd viewing.

sorry if this point has since beren made, but wouldn't it be better if those that have 2 people vouching against their murderous intent can be changed out for people withonly one. For example Crim has 2 folks vouching for him. I think I have only one. There are probably others as well, but iam doing it off the top of my head.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

Number 5 is that they could possibly be a socialite. However, they should have checked in that way, as others did, since there are plenty of roles out there.

You're depending on the opening role, the "Chekcing in, I am a villager, everyone" posts as your way of defining this? Come on, path, your play here is paranoid and overreaching. You are far too much of a veteran wolf to make this play. We need far more than this (and if its coming as I try to catch up, sorry for wasting everyone's time).

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Plus, you have to also remember that some out there will still throw out Mrs.Peacock's name, so that it doesn't show that she is being "ignored". Wolves and murderers might pick up on that, ya know?

Oh, I'm aware of that possibility. I'm not forcing anyone to believe my theory, though insinuating that it is ridiculous is going to get a response from me. However -- I'm going to vote for who I think the wolves are. If I get other info down the line that makes me change my mind, I will.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

better idea would be to vote saldana or cronin IMO

Ditto. From what I have read so far, path's plan here is one to consider afetr we don't have any good candidates. Right now, we do.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You're depending on the opening role, the "Chekcing in, I am a villager, everyone" posts as your way of defining this? Come on, path, your play here is paranoid and overreaching. You are far too much of a veteran wolf to make this play. We need far more than this (and if its coming as I try to catch up, sorry for wasting everyone's time).

Chief, you know as well as anyone that we've found wolves multiple times based on opening posts.

[SnDvls]

I'm viewing, but not always on.

vote St. Cronin

don't really have a feel for either he or Saldana, so it's a gut vote between the two

[DaddyTorgo]

ntn

there are a certain # of people who because of #'s couldn't be viewed a second time. you're on that short-list this time.

but if whoever is scheduled to view cronin/saldana (whoever gets lynched) wants to hold their order till the last minute and view ntn instead of the lynched person, if you're around at that point whoever that is...that'd be awesome

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE COUNT

Path - 1 (Render)
Cronin - 6 (neon, saldana, barkeep, oliegirl, crim, sndvls)
no lynch - 1 (swaggs)
saldana - 3 (lsg, DT, alanT)
DaddyTorgo - 1 (path)
Barkeep - 1 (Cronin)

[DaddyTorgo]

alright. now everyone's here. i have to leave in like 10 minutes, so let's get this sorted out now so i can go home knowing there will be a lynch

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

1) I could be lying in order to try and draw wolves my way.

2) I could be a seer.

3) I could be Green.

Take your choice.

Interesting that you get caught in the very lie you want to hang others for.

That said, as I said before, I'm not leaping to assuming someone si guilty for this, as you are. I'm not going to hang people for their opening post in this game. Tons of WW games and experience go against this logic.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

question for everyone:

I'm not looking for you answers, just a number

Of the 3 things you submitted last night to Pass (Who/Where/What) how many clues did you get back?

If you did like I did and put in info you already knew don't include that. It just seemed odd to me that I put in two unknowns and only got back one result and want to see if that held true for everyone else too.

I got one, as well.

[Barkeep49]

Ok just got caught up. I think we still don't know if there is preference given in night accusations to new information or to information you didn't start with. Therefore, I'd encourage those who started with a weapon to include that in their accusation. If someone gets back that as a response I think we're in much better shape in terms of how the accusations work. I will be scanning Telle per that list.

[DaddyTorgo]

best i can figure...barring multiple late-switches...2 more votes on cronin should lock it down

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Its not a matter of being wrong path, its the point that your entire argument relating to the knowledge of peacock is just rubbish.

Answer me: how can claiming to be a nameless socialite, since that is the only claim tha is safe for any and every player to make, be considered suspicious?

I went back through and found at least 6 people claiming that and most everyone else just used ssociliate. How does that help anything?

If I'm a wolf I claim nameless because it lumps me into the vast majority or players.

If I'm a primary I HAVE to claim this or risk becoming a murderer target too early in the game.

What other options do we have path?

This continued pointless arguement and my noted snippet above makes me:

VOTE PATH12

Render, don't be misled here. path is very unlikely to be a wolf, and even if he is, we have better targets. His argument isn't worthless; it actually has alot of value, and I started this game on the assumption people would make the mistake he is referring to and "out" themselves. What I don't agree with is how he is rushing to accuse people on what I think is flimsy circumstantial reasoning, especially when there are better candidates available. We need to do more investigating before following up on his list, IMO, and since we have other candidates, there is no sense in forcing the issue now with respect to path's outlook here.

I would recommend unvoting path if you haven't already, and vote for one of the three real candidates we have right now.

[DaddyTorgo]

and i've got...7 minutes till i'm out the door.

[Telle]

Finally got caught up (busy day at work). But I'm probably going to take off in a few to go make dinner and then take the kids to the park.

And I think I mentioned either last night or early this morning that st.cronin had been pinging my radar. Looks like a lot of others are feeling that way too.

VOTE ST.CRONIN

[DaddyTorgo]

typed up a response but gamespy ate it

mrs. white...don't be swayed by cronin's pleas. either cronin or alan need to die tonight. you decide based on who you'd rather see alive...but one of the two is lying and the only way to find out for sure is to take the 1-1 trade and kill one now.

either that or hold your kill and we'll lynch one of the two tomorrow. but i'd like to get things moving here.

gtg out the door

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

Per Pass, there were no duplicate clues given at the start. I'd say that the wolves have no incentive to lie in case of getting caught out. We've only had one duplicate so far.

So yes, in general I trust the list.

If the wolves are helping the murderer, they have incentive to lie. And if people are intentionally hiding their actual received clue in order for themselves to have a step up toward the individual victory, I could see that, too. Not sure what makes you so confident in the list.

[Neon_Chaos]

ntn, voting yet?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

typed up a response but gamespy ate it

mrs. white...don't be swayed by cronin's pleas. either cronin or alan need to die tonight. you decide based on who you'd rather see alive...but one of the two is lying and the only way to find out for sure is to take the 1-1 trade and kill one now.

either that or hold your kill and we'll lynch one of the two tomorrow. but i'd like to get things moving here.

gtg out the door

Wait... You think either cronin or alan are lying or saldana or alan?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

Chief, you know as well as anyone that we've found wolves multiple times based on opening posts.

Yes, but it is exceedingly rare. And throwing it out now when we have good candidates just muddies the water. Personally, I think you're reaching to try to validate your argument under pressure from others arguing against you (i.e. Render). You don't need to do that--your argument has validity. But it's not a plan to follow now, and there needs to be much more before I would consider basing a vote on it.

[Chief Rum]

Well, I pretty much intimated to this last night, and nothing I have read has changed my mind.

LYNCH ST.CRONIN

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

not voted: telle, chief rum, ntndeacon, schmidty, sndvls

4/5 of you are in the thread. let's get this hashed out

Yea I am almost caught up. I think Iam gonna go with Saldana and help clear up this altercation with saldana and Alan. besides that will make the vote closer and we can see last minute changes better.

Vote saldana

[Telle]

I personally think it's early yet for Mrs. White to use her murdering ability. I'd give it another day.

[DaddyTorgo]

UNVOTE SALDANA

VOTE ST. CRONIN

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Telle

I personally think it's early yet for Mrs. White to use her murdering ability. I'd give it another day.

I'm torn on this because in some ways I feel like she could save us a day of voting, but in other ways agree that with us honing in so closely on the murderer, and it appears a wolf, that it might be better off to save until later.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

ntn

there are a certain # of people who because of #'s couldn't be viewed a second time. you're on that short-list this time.

but if whoever is scheduled to view cronin/saldana (whoever gets lynched) wants to hold their order till the last minute and view ntn instead of the lynched person, if you're around at that point whoever that is...that'd be awesome

what I am saying is that some of the folks being viewed have ALREADY been cleared twice. shouldn't we make sure to get those cleared only once on that list before trying to clear someone a third time. I realize we can not view everyoner tonight, but your list seems to me to be a little shortsighted is all.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Ok just got caught up. I think we still don't know if there is preference given in night accusations to new information or to information you didn't start with. Therefore, I'd encourage those who started with a weapon to include that in their accusation. If someone gets back that as a response I think we're in much better shape in terms of how the accusations work. I will be scanning Telle per that list.

I did try this, but with location FYI

[path12]

UNVOTE DADDYTORGO
VOTE ST CRONIN

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I did try this, but with location FYI

And you got back a new answer, correct? If so then I think this is useful information as we'll be able to more carefully tailor our accusations.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

And you got back a new answer, correct? If so then I think this is useful information as we'll be able to more carefully tailor our accusations.

correct I used one know (my location) and 2 unknows (Alan & revolver) and got a new clue (revolver not the weapon)

[st.cronin]

Well, I see the writing on the wall, but I'm not changing my vote. If people are right and its really between me and saldana as the murderer, then it must be saldana. And if that's the case, Barkeep is a wolf, since he cleared saldana.

So, I'll leave my vote on Barkeep. Somebody can try to accuse saldana tomorrow, go for the win.

[Barkeep49]

I am confident that saldana is not the murderer, cronin, and would welcome that debate if/when the time comes.

[Barkeep49]

DOLA -- Though I consider it highly likely that he is a wolf.

[RendeR]

Vote Count?

[Barkeep49]

It's cronin by a mile. I think he's got 8 with the next closest being 3.

[RendeR]

Ok. I'm really hoping he turns up as the murderer, just so we can get beyond all this bickering about revealing information.

[oliegirl]

I'm back in the thread and definitely feel that going with DT's plan is the way to go at this point. Based on what we find out tonight we may have to switch gears tomorrow, but I'm really pleased at the way we all worked together today Hopefully we are on the right track and cronin will either be the murderer or a wolf...

I'm going to turn in my view order for tonight and then will be hanging around waiting for lynch time...

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Ok. I'm really hoping he turns up as the murderer, just so we can get beyond all this bickering about revealing information.

You and me both.

[Passacaglia]

I have 10 for cronin, and 3 for saldana, of the front-runners.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by path12

Why are we so worried about the murderer right now? We're down to two there and we can trust Mr. Green to view one of them tonight, right? That's something that can easily wait until tomorrow instead of flipping a coin today.

I really think we should be focusing on the wolves right now. Let the FBI do their job. We're going to have two-three other people trying to kill tonight after all.

Because the Murderer gets one sure kill every night. With the ratio between villagers and wolves, this is a huge + for the wolves, since the Murderer is more likely to kill a villager than a wolf at this point.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Because the Murderer gets one sure kill every night. With the ratio between villagers and wolves, this is a huge + for the wolves, since the Murderer is more likely to kill a villager than a wolf at this point.

The murderer won't accidentally kill the wolves because (s)he knows who the wolves are. And the way I read the rules, as it is clear that the murderer and wolves are to kill socialites, suggests to me that perhaps they can't intentionally kill each other. So, basically I agree that the wolves want the murderer around.

[Barkeep49]

Pass: Can the wolves and murderer kill each other?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

The murderer won't accidentally kill the wolves because (s)he knows who the wolves are. And the way I read the rules, as it is clear that the murderer and wolves are to kill socialites, suggests to me that perhaps they can't intentionally kill each other. So, basically I agree that the wolves want the murderer around.

Yeah, I skimmed over that part. You're right. The murderer and the wolves do know each other. Even a bigger incentive to kill the murderer immediately.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Pass: Can the wolves and murderer kill each other?

No.

[st.cronin]

When I turn up villager, look to Barkeep and saldana. There's something fishy about the two of them. That's all I've got for you.

[SnDvls]

so St. C you ain't gonna give up your clues huh?