NFL 2019 Season Thread

[JPhillips]

There's no doubt the Patriots are good, but in their first five games the opponents have won a collective five games, and that's only because the Bills are 4-1.

Going forward, it looks like the Pats will play at least ten teams with losing records this year. With two games against the Jets and Dolphins, and one each against the Bengals and Redskins, they might have six games against the four worst teams in the league.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I wasn't able to see the game last night, so I am not sure how the game was. But I fully expected a comfortable Packers win. NFC is very interesting this year.

You've got the Cowboys and the Rams as the 1/2 and then a LOT of teams that could make a claim for being in the mix.

How the mighty have fallen.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Sources -- Vikings fine Stefon Diggs over $200,000 for unexcused absences from practice, meetings

Doesn't sound like they want to trade him, but yeah that's not ideal...

And now he says

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/10/06/st...mO6Zem_TsnCnXg

Sounds a bit confused! I know the Bears loss sucked but...really Diggs is that how you act when your team loses?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

And he's ok, but who knows how long he'll be out. The team turns to an undrafted rookie free agent from Stanford. Bet they wish they had Dobbs now.

*Samford, not Stanford*... It might've been the first time I've seen an NFL team playing a QB I have literally never heard of, though I guess he won the Walter Payton award & broke Steve McNair's 1-AA passing yards record, so maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention since UMass went up to FBS.

Originally Posted by jbergey22

And now he says

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/10/06/st...mO6Zem_TsnCnXg

Sounds a bit confused! I know the Bears loss sucked but...really Diggs is that how you act when your team loses?

"I feel there’s truth to all rumors no matter how you dress it up,” Diggs said on Thursday. "I won’t be saying nothing on it. I won’t be speaking on it at all. But there is truth to all rumors, I guess."

Idk, guy's been a known drama queen since his recruitment in HS, there's a reason he went from a 5* WR to a 5th round draft pick despite flashing whenever he touched the ball (and yeah, health concerns were the bigger part). I couldn't care less about the Vikings so good luck, but I don't see any world where Diggs/Thielen, Cousins, and Zimmer are all back in 2020.

Regarding his actions I'm generally not a fan of people missing meetings and practices, but it sounds like he felt his (and I assume Thielen's) concerns were being ignored, and the fact even under a no-nonsense coach like Zimmer they still played him this week makes me wonder if they agreed with his larger point even if not the way he expressed it.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

but I don't see any world where Diggs/Thielen, Cousins, and Zimmer are all back in 2020.

Thielen will be back and Cousins will be back(28 million guaranteed) but Zimmer and Diggs could easily be out the door. Even if the fans arent pleased with Cousins we are stuck with him because of the contract. With that said they are 3-2 with a strong defense in which there appears to be no dominate teams in the league at this point in time. Patriots defense looks unbelievable but their offense looks a bit mediocre right now. Rams gave up 50+ to the bucs and the Chiefs just lost at home to the Colts(keep Mahomes in the pocket and hes not the same player).

[jbergey22]

Some of the "top" teams in the NFL this year have some terrible losses under their belt..... Not really normal for super bowl contenders.

Bears losing to the Raiders
Rams giving up 50 and losing to the bucs
Chiefs losing a primetime home game to the Colts
Cowboys losing B2B big conference games against teams missing key players

As much as I hate to say it I like the Saints and Packers in the NFC and the Pats in the AFC right now. The other teams just arent really separating themselves from the rest. Packers are especially dangerous now that they have a legit running game and defense and dont have to depend of Rogers to save them every game like in the past.

[NobodyHere]

Nice to see the Colts get the win.

Hopefully Vinatieri is back to form and I can't believe they held the Chiefs to 10 points.

[SirFozzie]

Jay Gruden? He gone, officially.

[Jstraub]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Thielen will be back and Cousins will be back(28 million guaranteed) but Zimmer and Diggs could easily be out the door. Even if the fans arent pleased with Cousins we are stuck with him because of the contract. With that said they are 3-2 with a strong defense in which there appears to be no dominate teams in the league at this point in time. Patriots defense looks unbelievable but their offense looks a bit mediocre right now. Rams gave up 50+ to the bucs and the Chiefs just lost at home to the Colts(keep Mahomes in the pocket and hes not the same player).

My take on the NFC north...

Dark days ahead for Vikings. Yes they have a defense right now but the paid (heavily) for it and have no money in the coming years. Each year that defense is 1 year older and they wont have replacement level players in line. They also grossly overpaid for Cousins, obviously. He will win games like yesterday to the Giants and give people hope but when facing stiff competition he fades. On the WR drama/distraction spectrum; Diggs sits near AB and far from L. Fitzgerald. We all know where this is headed.

Bears are similar. Great Defense; No QB. They will win many games but lose the ones that require above avg. quaterback play. They've traded their future for now (see see Trubisky and K. Mack trades). Problem is "now" is probably as good as it gets.


Lions are intriguing. One loss (barely and to a good team), and one ugly tie to a bad team (Cardinals), great Defensive line play, they are running the ball (unusual for Lions) and Stafford is being consistent. Will be intrigued how their season plays out.

Packers are intriguing. Yes they say they are committed to running the ball but its clear Rodgers really likes to sling it around. Fascinating to watch this internal drama of what Rodgers wants/thinks the Packers offesne should do vs. LaFleurs direction of the offense. Rodgers best game of the year came in their only loss to the Eagles. In their 4 wins he was closer to a game manager vs. a game changer. Is he going to be ok with that? Will his ego/stubborness prevent this team from reaching its greatest potential? Great start but they will be tested late in the season and must have this Rodgers vs. Lafleur thing figured out by then.

[stevew]

Dan Snyder’s top target is Mike Tomlin? I mean I’ll help him move or drive him to the airport if he needs some help.

[molson]

Does Dan Snyder just think he's been unlucky these last few decades or is there any self-awareness here?

I assume there's no self-awareness, but, how can even a delusional person rationalize what has happened to that franchise when he is the guy in charge of everything?

[bhlloy]

At this rate I’d guess he’s shaping up nicely to be president in 2024

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Jay Gruden? He gone, officially.

I don't know if this is bad or good. The Colts need the Redskins to continue tanking because they have the Redskins 2nd round pick.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I don't know if this is bad or good.

It's bad.

Cause I expect Phat Phil to get confused and hire him to come to Knoxville.

That's the wrong Gruden you idiot

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Jstraub

Bears are similar. Great Defense; No QB. They will win many games but lose the ones that require above avg. quaterback play. They've traded their future for now (see see Trubisky and K. Mack trades). Problem is "now" is probably as good as it gets.

The Bears can win with poor to mediocre qb play. They've done it before. The Bears cannot win with poor to mediocre qb play and this line. The run blocking is god awful across the line and Kyle Long gets pushed into the qb on almost every pass play. Kyle Long may be the worst starting lineman in the NFL at this point. Injuries and age have destroyed him.

Trubisky biggest problems are against the blitz (2nd to last in the NFL statistically). He's statistically been solid with a clean pocket though. However, when you can't run at all and you have a qb that doesn't handle the blitz you're not going to score many points as you have no way to really punish a defense.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The Bears can win with poor to mediocre qb play. They've done it before. The Bears cannot win with poor to mediocre qb play and this line. The run blocking is god awful across the line and Kyle Long gets pushed into the qb on almost every pass play. Kyle Long may be the worst starting lineman in the NFL at this point. Injuries and age have destroyed him.

Counterpoint: Ereck Flowers is still somehow a starter.

Nice gameplan by the Colts last night, but the Chiefs run D is still soft, and nobody seems to be mentioning how much worse Mahomes was after his injury limited his mobility and exposed even more just how bad that OL is. A healthy Mahomes (+Watkins +Hill) probably wins that game, but the Colts D was also down 4 starters iirc, so impressive performance regardless. Quenton Nelson continues to be the closest thing to a Must Watch NFL offensive lineman, what a savage.

Talk about the schedule all you want, and it has been soft, but man the Patriots D is playing unbelievably well right now. I forgot how much fun it is to have a great & aggressive defense in the NFL! I also don't understand how Jamie Collins and Donta Hightower are actually better than they were 2-3 years ago, but Hightower somehow looks faster & Collins is actually listening instead of freelancing after being humbled by the Cleveland experience. Up next it's the New York rookie(ish) QB's in Prime Time, then we finally start playing real offenses October 27. But still, regardless, the defense giving up 4.0 PPG through 5 games in 2019 is insane. (Both Jets TD's were a Pick-6 & a fumbled punt.)

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Talk about the schedule all you want, and it has been soft, but man the Patriots D is playing unbelievably well right now. I forgot how much fun it is to have a great & aggressive defense in the NFL! I also don't understand how Jamie Collins and Donta Hightower are actually better than they were 2-3 years ago, but Hightower somehow looks faster & Collins is actually listening instead of freelancing after being humbled by the Cleveland experience. Up next it's the New York rookie(ish) QB's in Prime Time, then we finally start playing real offenses October 27. But still, regardless, the defense giving up 4.0 PPG through 5 games in 2019 is insane. (Both Jets TD's were a Pick-6 & a fumbled punt.)

I think it was just two years ago through about week 6-7 when the Patriots defense was just getting thrashed by every team they faced. Two years later they are now this good. Bellichik can rebuild an entire unit so quickly without having top draft picks just amazing at talent evaluation.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Counterpoint: Ereck Flowers is still somehow a starter.

Flowers is awful and I was curious so in 2019 Kyle Long's PFF grade is a 37.5 and Flowers is 53.5

[tarcone]

I feel sorry for Browns fans

[Atocep]

The book seems to be out on Baker. I think people are sleeping on the 49ers too. Football Outsiders has them nearly on par with the Pat's and then a dropoff.

[B & B]

Originally Posted by Atocep

people are sleeping on the 49ers too. Football Outsiders has them nearly on par with the Pat's and then a dropoff.

Pump the brakes

Getting outgained by the worst secondary in football in TB , beating a hapless bungles 1st year coach and a 4 pt win over 'cant take a punch' Rudolph led steelers is not that impressive

3-0 yea

Beating up the Clowns off a bye

at home


Yeah. but that's the most impressive V so far , but 4-0 . Sure.

Things to be pumped for? Bosa? yeah. The RBBC ? yeah. Big pluses.

Need to develop a decent 2nd option to Kittle.

[Lathum]

Booger is the worst

[B & B]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Booger is the worst

this I agree with

Makes me long for the days of DENNIS MILLER


hes just awful, I mean witten was TERRIBLE last year but hes worse

SPOILER ALERT

=========================================
Stop reading because this will make u hate booger even more

his announcing of the I's as double EE's is grating on my skin....

as in

"That's how you turn and run downHEEL. (as in Tarheel)

he does it 1-2 times per quarter.

[bhlloy]

Woof - the Browns look horrendous, but they could be 3-6 after week 9 at the Bills and still get into the playoffs due to the rest of the schedule being weak as hell

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Woof - the Browns look horrendous, but they could be 3-6 after week 9 at the Bills and still get into the playoffs due to the rest of the schedule being weak as hell

Defensive coordinators must be drooling right now getting to face Baker. Hes a one trick pony. Take away option 1 and he starts drifting to his right until he runs out of time or forces a bad pass. A coach needs to get back to the basics with him. Instead of partying in the offseason talking shit on twitter he maybe should have spent more time working with coaches and practicing.

This also tells me a bit more info on FO grading system vs PFF as Ive watched more Browns games this year than I care to admit. On PFF Baker is ranked the 10th best QB this year according to his play(wrong) vs FO he is ranked 6th worse(more like what I am seeing). Makes me really re-thinking forking out 130 dollars each year to PFF.

[BishopMVP]

Ehh, Baker has been bad too, but it's so tough when you watch a QB with an OL that bad play.

Originally Posted by Atocep

Flowers is awful and I was curious so in 2019 Kyle Long's PFF grade is a 37.5 and Flowers is 53.5

I apologize Sir. Holy shit he must be bad post-injury.

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I think it was just two years ago through about week 6-7 when the Patriots defense was just getting thrashed by every team they faced. Two years later they are now this good. Bellichik can rebuild an entire unit so quickly without having top draft picks just amazing at talent evaluation.

I don't think it's talent evaluation, it's putting guys in position to use their skillsets. What made 2 years ago so very weird is that probably the biggest problem was Stephon Gilmore & his communication errors, and he might be the #1 NFL CB right now. Even when we had Revis we'd have him lock up the #2 WR & roll safety help to the #1 with (Devin) McCourty, but we're iso'ing Gilmore vs the #1's now & he's been a beast for a year+. McCourty is still a Pro Bowl level S & all of our CB's past Gilmore are doing a great job in their smaller assignments, Danny Shelton is doing a very good Vince Wilfork impression 2-gapping in the middle of the 3-4, and castoffs like Kyle Van Noy & Jamie Collins & a guy in Donta Hightower who looked like a shell of himself & too slow post-injury are all flying around out there.

I actually like Patricia & Flores as DC's & potentially as HC's, but Jerod Mayo hasn't missed a beat. Basically plays vanilla at the start of every game & then starts ramping up the blitzes in the middle quarters as they get a lead, and we're just abusing teams with stunts & having secondary depth who can cover their guys while Gilmore is locking up #1's.

[QuikSand]

So, are the 49ers actually a good team at this point? There were signs... that offense in the back half of last season remained effective even as they trotted out hoboes at QB and didn't feel like they had an NFL-caliber staff. With each offseason they have used cap space to fill gaps, and seem to be doing a pretty effective job of it. Is Shanahan just that good at world-building that he can plug in pretty much anyone and make it work?

They're among the more interesting teams in the league right now, for my money.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So, are the 49ers actually a good team at this point? There were signs... that offense in the back half of last season remained effective even as they trotted out hoboes at QB and didn't feel like they had an NFL-caliber staff. With each offseason they have used cap space to fill gaps, and seem to be doing a pretty effective job of it. Is Shanahan just that good at world-building that he can plug in pretty much anyone and make it work?

They're among the more interesting teams in the league right now, for my money.

In this regard, I think that their opponent last night--the Browns--provides an interesting data point.

Because sports media overanalyzes things and needs to be ahead of the curve, I think that we sometimes jump on bandwagons too early. Before last season, everyone was in on the 49ers as the team ready to make the leap. And it turns out that they were not (yes, injury to the QB, but the team was still 4-12 w/o Garrapolo, not 8-8). Then we all figured "oh well, they weren't good after all" and turned to the next new shiny thing.

This season is showing us that we were right that the 49ers were on the upswing last season; they just needed a little more time to get there.

Which brings me to the Browns. They were the offseason champs; everyone had them as a "surprise" top team in the AFC. And, it seems like they may end up more 7-9ish instead.

Which means that next offseason, we will forget about the Browns and turn toward our new hot team ready to make the leap (Gardner Minshew, your adoring public awaits). And, if the Browns put their heads down and fill in some holes in the O-line and Baker and Odell spend the offseason working on getting their timing down . . . . Basically, we might be right about the Browns the same way we were right about the 49ers. Just a year too early.

[Warhammer]

Having watched and listened to most Browns games this year, their issues stem from the OL and discipline. If they clean the OL up, they will look a lot better.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So, are the 49ers actually a good team at this point? There were signs... that offense in the back half of last season remained effective even as they trotted out hoboes at QB and didn't feel like they had an NFL-caliber staff. With each offseason they have used cap space to fill gaps, and seem to be doing a pretty effective job of it. Is Shanahan just that good at world-building that he can plug in pretty much anyone and make it work?

They're among the more interesting teams in the league right now, for my money.

Well they have played consistent enough to win every week which is far better than most teams. Are they good enough offensively to beat a good team on the road at a decent rate? Doubtful! I think they are in that 10-16 range...Slightly Above Average

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Having watched and listened to most Browns games this year, their issues stem from the OL and discipline. If they clean the OL up, they will look a lot better.

A panicky QB that doesnt read defenses very well can make an offensive line look even worse than it is. Easier for announcers to point blame at the offensive line than the #1 pick and supposed franchise QB.

He reminds me of Daunte Culpepper with the Vikings the year after Moss left when he actually had to read a defense because teams werent stuck in cover 2 deep all game because of the Moss factor.

I dont know if hes trying to hard to get Beckham involved and not actually following progressions or what is going on but hes certainly not playing like an above average NFL starter right now.

[BishopMVP]

FO has the 49ers up to a 15% chance to win the Super Bowl. (For reference, the Pats are #1 at 37%, Chiefs #3 at 9%). I think everyone including them would say that seems very high, and you wonder if there will be a Cowboy-like regression when they play good teams, but if that defense is for real?...

[albionmoonlight]

Giants ruled out Saquon Barkley, Evan Engram and Sterling Shepard for Thursday night vs. New England.

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) October 9, 2019

Wonder if Bill Belichick will decide to win by 50 just out of sheer boredom.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If a QB is throwing into double coverage at a high rate and holding the ball an unusually long time, doesn't that open the door to the possibility that his receivers are having problems getting open?

I mean, that IS plausible, right?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Giants ruled out Saquon Barkley, Evan Engram and Sterling Shepard for Thursday night vs. New England.

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) October 9, 2019

Wonder if Bill Belichick will decide to win by 50 just out of sheer boredom.

Glad they are holding Barkley back. No reason to risk further injury in a game they have zero chance in then have 10 days off.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If a QB is throwing into double coverage at a high rate and holding the ball an unusually long time, doesn't that open the door to the possibility that his receivers are having problems getting open?

I mean, that IS plausible, right?

It’s plausible, but it’s also unlikely given who his receivers are. I think it’s probably complicated, but it’s partly terrible line play and the slippery slope that has on a QB in terms of technique, partly the fact that concerns he had coming out of college (height, pocket presence, restraint) maybe coming back into play and partly scheme.

Kitchens just doesn’t strike me as an NFL head coach so far, in terms of demeanor, decision making or discipline. Feels to me like the classic interim guy who was the right choice to be interim because he was loose and the players loved him not being the right guy for the job to take it forward for the same reasons (and I know he wasn’t the interim HC, but that possibly just intensified some of that stuff)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

It’s plausible, but it’s also unlikely given who his receivers are.

Yeah, he was indeed the subject/prompt for my question. But not exactly the reason for the question if that makes sense.

Reading one of the articles about his struggles, those two details were mentioned. And I started thinking - broadly, not Mayfield specifically - what those two facts (that they gave numbers for) might say if you gave them to me with Fog of War enabled.

The possible influence of the WRs was what hit me and I started thinking "I mean, that could be what it means ... right?"

edit to add: it was kinda of a "check myself" question

[bhlloy]

Yeah, it’s a fascinating study in cause and effect for sure

[thesloppy]

I think Gronkowski just called Edelman "eloosetive"

[Lathum]

Really good read on Eli. A bit long but worth it

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/10/10/el...friends-family

[molson]

How can you punt on 4th and 2 down 14 with 8 minutes left?

[albionmoonlight]

Kamara questionable with an ankle. Some speculation that he might not travel to JAX this Sunday.

Payton going empty cupboard whether he wants to or not.

[BishopMVP]

Teddy Checkdown now 4-0 since Brees left... So when do we start the Saints QB controversy? talk?

[Edward64]

Falcons not doing so well today. I think we are better than a 1-4 (soon to be 1-5) team.

[kingfc22]

Niners defense is legit. Period. End of story.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Falcons not doing so well today. I think we are better than a 1-4 (soon to be 1-5) team.

Have the offensive talent to be? Sure. Are better? No.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Niners defense is legit. Period. End of story.

That and Goff is horrible.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

That and Goff is horrible.

This. Goff is showing that he's not quite as polished as he was before. Definitely somewhere in between the rookie Goff and the on point Goff of last year.

The poor pass pro performance of the line, the loss/ineffectiveness of Gurley, and McVay's seeming desire to throw at all costs have put a lot of pressure on Goff to perform, and it seems like he is actually (at this point in his career) not ready to shoulder that kind of load.

The Rams started the game by ramming the ball down the Niners' throats. They couldn't do anything about it. For some reason, McVay stopped doing that and went to throwing almost exclusively.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Teddy Checkdown now 4-0 since Brees left... So when do we start the Saints QB controversy? talk?

Dont give Skip Bayless any idea's.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

This. Goff is showing that he's not quite as polished as he was before. Definitely somewhere in between the rookie Goff and the on point Goff of last year.

The poor pass pro performance of the line, the loss/ineffectiveness of Gurley, and McVay's seeming desire to throw at all costs have put a lot of pressure on Goff to perform, and it seems like he is actually (at this point in his career) not ready to shoulder that kind of load.

The Rams started the game by ramming the ball down the Niners' throats. They couldn't do anything about it. For some reason, McVay stopped doing that and went to throwing almost exclusively.

Every year it almost seems is the same with Superbowl hangover. Lose the Super Bowl vastly underachieve the next season. Coming into this season or most seasons really, "nah, its not really a thing the Rams are so solid they will roll again this season" and yet these seemingly very strong teams just seem to struggle the next season. It has to be a real thing.