WW LXVII - Heroes (GAME OVER! HEROES WIN!)

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Dola,

I think it might actually be worthwhile to see who brought up the whole "Ardent isn't around" as a reason not to vote for him when the run on Neon occured. If anything is metagame, that is a metagame method to try to save Ardent. I'll go back and look to see who actually started that in an effort to save ardent without appearing to try.

I'll say that I used it as a reason to explain why I didn't vote for him.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

my vote was not for any meta-game reason at all. he fouled up on his "power/ability" and I picked up on it.

if someone else's was because he wasn't here I don't know, but I openly stated my suspicision of his statement just after he made it.

Did he really though? Didn't he indeed have a passive ability?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

A very close vote. I really don't like the votes on Neon and Ardent since it feels to me people more have a problem with the times they're available than the players themselves. As I said that I don't think Thomkal is the solution, I'm going to go ahead and vote for the only other guy in contention at the moment.

Vote Jackal

Originally Posted by st.cronin

The case against ardent:

Claimed to have no NIGHT actions.
Appears to not be able to contribute a whole lot, based on schedule.

These are the only two things I see referring to schedule. I'm already suspicious of Cronin, not sure if I'm ready to jump in to the pool of thought that BK was trying to subtly influence people to not vote Ardent by throwing out the suggestion that votes on him were due to inactivity or schedule. Guess its something to watch.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Did he really though? Didn't he indeed have a passive ability?

I'm not sure it was so much that Ardent fouled up as his comments about his power just really set off SnDvls radar in a big way. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but Sunny did, so good call on his part.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Did he really though? Didn't he indeed have a passive ability?

he said he didn't have a night power/ability...if your ability is to "always be invisible" and you could see from your own role you couldn't be spied on and you always came up a hero I'd say you have an ability...weather he had to submit a PM to activate it doesn't say no to having a night power/ability. He always had it, he just didn't have to submit a PM to put it in action...the PM was reserved for him to put in a kill

[Alan T]

Well.. things kind of calmed down a bit. I'm heading out soon so going to get a vote in before I go. Like the past two days, I can change it if I choose to later!

Based on my previously described gut instinct

Vote St.Cronin

[claphamsa]

WTF people I have a booring day of traingin and come b ack to 9 pages of posts!!!!

ghood job whoever killed ardent!

[claphamsa]

wow this is gonna take for ever....

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

WTF people I have a booring day of traingin and come b ack to 9 pages of posts!!!!

ghood job whoever killed ardent!

It might have been boring but "Lathum presents how to spell" clearly did teach you something.

[claphamsa]

ill never figure out why this is the only site that firefox wont fix,.....

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

ill never figure out why this is the only site that firefox wont fix,.....

Firefox's spell check works for me at FOFC (even got the red squiggly under FOFC)

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Firefox's spell check works for me at FOFC (even got the red squiggly under FOFC)

ok now thats crreeeepyyyy!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

It might have been boring but "Lathum presents how to spell" clearly did teach you something.

[SnDvls]

Lathum = Teh worlds' bst spellar



all in fun man, all in fun

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm not really sold on this just yet, but the way he is pushing on Thomkal helps me feel stronger to vote for Cronin today. This isn't any more than a gut feeling though, and probably one that isn't any better than the gut feeling I had on Ardent..

What in God's name are you talking about??? If people are just going to start making stuff up I'll quit.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Lathum = Teh worlds' bst spellar



all in fun man, all in fun

you guys wouldn't be laughing if yu knew I had to repeat the second grade twice because of my learning dissability

[st.cronin]

My vote on ardent was simply a welcome back, and then there was never a reason to move it, since nobody else made a compelling candidate. And all I said about Thomkal was, if we know he's a villager, then we know a lot about the vote.

[Schmidty]

Just woke up for a bathroom break. Glad to see that to see we got AE, although I wish I had helped do so. At least now we have a MUCH better idea of who we can trust, and who we need to question (and yes, I realize that that includes me).

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What in God's name are you talking about??? If people are just going to start making stuff up I'll quit.

I don't think I'm making anything up here. Maybe I am mistaken on your intentions for these two posts.. the way that I read your following posts the impression that I received was that you would be interested in putting Thomkal under the fire once again today for a lynch vote.

Originally Posted by st.cronin

We need to figure out Thomkal. If Thomkal = villager, then we have a substantial COT.

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Votes switching. If the votes moved from Thomkal (villager) to Ardent (wolf), then I am going to assume the votes that moved are villager votes. If Thomkal is a wolf, which I have no idea if he is, then we really have no data, the vote was wolf vs. wolf.

Now I might be making a poor read of you, and I might be making a poor read of Thomkal.. but based on the way Pass played and THomkal has since played I think that we want to keep him around. So when I added up my prior suspicions about you based on some actions you made (purely gut instincts on my part), combined with my interpretation of what you were doing with your ardent vote plus trying to push in my mind a thomkal vote...

I just don't get a good feeling about you at all right now. If I'm wrong then.. well I guess its not the first time I felt pretty strongly about you and was completely wrong.. but its the best I have to go on right now.

[st.cronin]

"Actions"

Are you sure you don't mean posts? I don't know that I've made any actions that you would be aware of.

[RendeR]

What is in the fucking water today? everybody is pissing everybody else off today.

Cept for me

For a change.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by RendeR

What is in the fucking water today? everybody is pissing everybody else off today.

Cept for me

For a change.

I'm ok, I just saw what I thought was going to be an attempt to get my lynched based on a falsehood.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm ok, I just saw what I thought was going to be an attempt to get my lynched based on a falsehood.

Ahh, see I consider every day a chance to get YOU lynched dude. you're always a wolf, even when yer not.

[mauchow]

Interesting day. And I missed all the juicy details. I kept up a little bit but work was too busy to make a point or two.

I didn't think we'd actually nail a company player today, but awesome regardless!!!

Anyways, I'll be able to contribute a little bit more tomorrow as I'm off, finally.

[st.cronin]

For the record, I will likely not be around tomorrow at all. So I'll put a vote tonight. Hopefully some information is forthcoming, or discussion of some kind.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

For the record, I will likely not be around tomorrow at all. So I'll put a vote tonight. Hopefully some information is forthcoming, or discussion of some kind.

I likely won't be around a bunch tonight, but since you won't be around tommorrow .. would you like to convince me otherwise to why I shouldn't vote for you today? I admit its mostly a gut call based on how you've reacted subtly to certain things. If I had to be honest, my gut feel for why Ardent was bad wasn't as much based on anything Ardent did but instead because of things you did.

So while I look all smart and everything about being right on Ardent, it could have very well been blind luck on my part... I'm open to any conversation or arguements you might have to persuade me elsewhere.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I likely won't be around a bunch tonight, but since you won't be around tommorrow .. would you like to convince me otherwise to why I shouldn't vote for you today? I admit its mostly a gut call based on how you've reacted subtly to certain things. If I had to be honest, my gut feel for why Ardent was bad wasn't as much based on anything Ardent did but instead because of things you did.

So while I look all smart and everything about being right on Ardent, it could have very well been blind luck on my part... I'm open to any conversation or arguements you might have to persuade me elsewhere.

You need to explain what you're seeing more. Let me translate what you're saying into how it sounds to me:

- something about st.cronin seems fishy
- st.cronin voted for ardent, therefore ardent is a wolf
- ardent turned up wolf, therefore cronin is a wolf!

It doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't know how to respond to it.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

You need to explain what you're seeing more. Let me translate what you're saying into how it sounds to me:

- something about st.cronin seems fishy
- st.cronin voted for ardent, therefore ardent is a wolf
- ardent turned up wolf, therefore cronin is a wolf!

It doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't know how to respond to it.

I shouldn't join this debate, but I have to agree with st.cronin here. Going from the gut is something I would do, not Alan.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

You need to explain what you're seeing more. Let me translate what you're saying into how it sounds to me:

- something about st.cronin seems fishy
- st.cronin voted for ardent, therefore ardent is a wolf
- ardent turned up wolf, therefore cronin is a wolf!

It doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't know how to respond to it.

I'm not really that concerned with convincing you whether you are good or not. I'm pretty sure you have a good idea of which the case may be. So I'm not sure what would be accomplished by me trying to explain my gut instinct to you right now.

I can try to explain to others if they want to understand it better when trying to make their vote decision, but just like my vote with Ardent, its really tough to explain gut instincts. Its the subtle way you dropped things in regards to Pass vs me originally, then turned a blind eye to the subtle way Pass ended up diffusing that situation, the way you ignored some of the comments that Thomkal made regarding me when he came around, and how you didn't seem to register some of the other comments Thomkal made when he was up for lynch. The way you still tried to dangle Thomkal vs me even long after it was no longer an issue to either of us, and the way you tried to passive-aggressively toss my name around yesterday while still being friendly with me.

Then looking at how you voted for Ardent, his response to your votes for him, comparing it with how you and he have interacted in the past, the difference of reaction in my viewing of the interaction just made me feel something was up there. I made that my point when I voted for Ardent yesterday, trying to push him closer to harm's way.. and I made sure that it was very public that I wanted to see if it made you move your vote at all. It left you in a place where at any point there wasn't a real good reason for you to move your vote off of him so instead you gave weird reasons for why people were voting for Ardent when others asked. (The whole different schedule thing). Your reason for people voting Ardent was in my opinion phrased a certain way to look less appealing for others, yet your vote still remained there. It was the best way you could try to help save Ardent without outing yourself.

Now 99.9% of that is simply subjective reads on my part and a gut instict without much proof at all. So I might fully be wrong, and just like with Ardent, I'm not going to be actively pushing you as a vote choice. I'll leave it up to others if they feel they have a better choice with someone else. Likewise I'll keep my opinions open in case I see something better pop in.

Now, what I was hoping you would do is help give me a better candidate or some reason why I shouldn't be pushing for you.. I don't see the point in me trying to convince you that you are bad at all

[st.cronin]

Schmidty, you're actually one of my top suspects right now. You were around during the craziness at the deadline yesterday, but never moved off of no lynch ... which, considering there were like three different people who said they didn't find that particularly suspicious, would be an excellent place for a wolf to hide.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I shouldn't join this debate, but I have to agree with st.cronin here. Going from the gut is something I would do, not Alan.

I am guessing St.Cronin would disagree with this statement as he has been the unfortunate victim of my incorrect gut calls about him not only once in the past... That doesn't mean I'm wrong this time though! But its why I'm trying to give him the opportunity to change my mind here..


Also interesting to me that this is the second time you've defended Cronin/Ardent against my gut instincts in this game

[st.cronin]

Alan, I still don't really understand what happened with you and Pass/Thomkal, but you brought it up this time, not me. If you want to explain the "subtle way" Pass defused it, I'm all ears. But I went back and read all those posts, and if there's something under the lines I'm blind to it.

Points in favor of me:

- Voted for ardent, the cunning wolf, early on both days (obviously I didn't KNOW he was a wolf, but if I was a wolf , and going to vote for a fellow wolf, wouldn't I avoid a teammate with his ability?)

- Was the first, I think, to reveal my character name - should at least convince you that I'm not Sylar

But, really, I don't mind if you vote for me Alan. My ability isn't a big deal, and hasn't yielded any information for anybody yet (as far as I can tell). If I get lynched, so be it - lord knows I get lynched often enough in these games.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Also interesting to me that this is the second time you've defended Cronin/Ardent against my gut instincts in this game

Oh good Lord. I knew I shouldn't have talked. Can you refresh my memory where I defended AE? I honestly don't remember, and I'm too lazy to look.

[The Jackal]

Do we only have one vote on record right now?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Oh good Lord. I knew I shouldn't have talked. Can you refresh my memory where I defended AE? I honestly don't remember, and I'm too lazy to look.

It wasn't anything huge. Just an interesting thing I noticed. And yeah you are right that it seems pretty unlikely that all four are buddies.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well right now I'm thinking you, Ardent, Nfg and DaddyTorgo seem like a pretty likely alignment based on how you all have been approaching me. But I'm guessing thats not quite what you had in mind?

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Which means that there's a 0% chance that they're a behind-the-scenes alignment, because no one is that stupid.

[st.cronin]

Alan, think about how easy it would have been for me to save ardent yesterday, given the following assumptions:

- ardent = cunning wolf
- my character name is Mohinder Soresh (consider what the ASSUMED abilities of this character might be)
- I put a vote on him day 1

[DaddyTorgo]

back on finally

[SnDvls]

Alan -
if it helps you any I don't feel what you feel about St. C and I won't be voting that way unless someone comes forward with some very compelling and convincing evidence.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Do we only have one vote on record right now?

VOTE THE JACKAL


If not we do now....


merely a random choice based on absolutely nothing in particular =)

[hoopsguy]

OK, close to wrapping up my work stuff for the night - looking forward to examining today's vote in more detail.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

VOTE THE JACKAL


If not we do now....


merely a random choice based on absolutely nothing in particular =)

I wonder who saved him and why they didn't step up?

[st.cronin]

Lathum, are you talking about who changed hoops vote, and why nobody has taken credit? I don't know that I would be willing to come right out and say I had, either.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Lathum, are you talking about who changed hoops vote, and why nobody has taken credit? I don't know that I would be willing to come right out and say I had, either.

Why not.

An unchallanged claim to that puts you clearly in the CoT.

Right now I am thinking it possible a company member did it to save the Jackyl.

I realize that means they were both company so I dunno. just trying to get some discussion going

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Why not.

An unchallanged claim to that puts you clearly in the CoT.

Right now I am thinking it possible a company member did it to save the Jackyl.

I realize that means they were both company so I dunno. just trying to get some discussion going

I thought about that possibility for a bit.. but that doesn't make alot of sense to me considering the landscape at the time. With an influenced vote + jackyl's move there were a few options besides just ardent at the time. The way the vote build on Jackyl for no good reason, plus how things developed.. I have a hard time believeing jackyl is company right now

[path12]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'll still maintain that we got ardent as much by his not being around as any real deduction on him. I'll take the luck, don't get me wrong, but for meta-game reasons I'm not thrilled with it.

I'd say most day 1/2 lynches of wolves would classify as luck. We get enough bad breaks to worry too much about some luck!

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Why not.

An unchallenged claim to that puts you clearly in the CoT.

Right now I am thinking it possible a company member did it to save the Jackyl.

I realize that means they were both company so I dunno. just trying to get some discussion going

Spelling corrected.

Well, nobody really has any pressure on them yet. I think its unlikely that a would use the ability that way, although, I dunno, maybe. My guess is somebody just didn't want a tie. Its also possible that it was hoops himself, that he has the ability to disguise his vote.

Anyway, if it had been me that did it, I'd sit on it until there was some pressure. Keep the bad guys in the dark.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Spelling corrected.

That's it.

I'm quiting

[path12]

Schedule alert here also: I definitely won't be around tomorrow so will get a vote and some more detailed thoughts in later. I hope to have some access tomorrow night and then will not be around again during the day Friday. Other than that I'll be here for either the duration or I'm killed. I'd prefer the former.

[st.cronin]

Sorry, those red underlines just annoy the heck out of me, even in a quote box.

[path12]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Sorry, those red underlines just annoy the heck out of me, even in a quote box.

That is why I hate spell check. I never turn it on.