Werewolf LXXV - Rise of the Great Old Ones -Students Win!!!!

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

There really isn't a ton for Hoops and I to hash out. We both know exactly what happened last night. Any uncertainty that Hoops is presenting is pretty much just for show. He took a gamble and messed up is all there is to it.

Now it is just a game of who is the better salesperson trying to get everyone to believe their story.

I'll just suggest that anyone who has played a game with me as a wolf, or moderated a game where I was a wolf, would know that this is bull. I don't take reckless gambles when in control of a game. I'll take desperate gambles when behind, but the wolves were firmly in control after two days.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'll just suggest that anyone who has played a game with me as a wolf, or moderated a game where I was a wolf, would know that this is bull. I don't take reckless gambles when in control of a game. I'll take desperate gambles when behind, but the wolves were firmly in control after two days.

I am pretty sure the same could be said for me. I wouldn't call your gamble reckless at all though. It isn't a common mechanism for someone to know who failed to kill them when they fail. I actually would call your move a calculated risk that you lost on.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, what more do you want to know?

Racer is the seer.
Alan is a wolf.
I've got another role, as a result I've been privy to Racer's cleared list.

I'm ecstatic that he scanned Alan last night, given that Alan's distrust list yesterday included the seer and the person that the seer scanned on Night 1. It is the person that I would have chosen, given the chance.

[Telle]

I'm getting more confused by the post..

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Pass, what more do you want to know?

Racer is the seer.
Alan is a wolf.
I've got another role, as a result I've been privy to Racer's cleared list.

I'm ecstatic that he scanned Alan last night, given that Alan's distrust list yesterday included the seer and the person that the seer scanned on Night 1. It is the person that I would have chosen, given the chance.

And RendeR?

[hoopsguy]

OK, let me make it less confusing.

Cleared: me, Racer (seer), RendeR
Wolf: Alan

It probably wasn't my right to "out" the seer in exchange for a wolf - that should be his call. But Alan is a tough out (he defends himself well) and I wanted to try and avoid him setting the tone by posting before Racer. I've seen how that plays out in other games.

Anyway, lynch Alan and you will see that I'm telling the truth. Then the bodyguard should guard Racer tonight so we pick up one more scan. I probably get removed from the game at that point, but I'm fine with that as the villagers will have begun to re-establish control of the game with one wolf gone, one more scan to come, and the start of a COT that the wolves will struggle to break.

[Axxon]

Right now the only thing I don't understand is how conversion works. I've never played a game where it's included. Is it a wolf role that's not revealed?

If it is then we may have lost somebody last night and beefed up the wolf count but then we'd get it back tomorrow when we lynched hoopsguy.

Otherwise, we do have a free lynch so to speak so taking hoops lead won't hurt us and either way, we get some information where voting anyone else wouldn't do that.

So I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now since we can kill him tomorrow if the information is off.

VOTE ALAN T

If there's hidden wolf roles or other roles that could affect this that I am unaware of I'll reconsider. Are there any roles where the wolves can sniff out other peoples roles?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

And RendeR?

The Night 1 scan, whose aura was non-threatening.

[hoopsguy]

Conversion = wolves turn a villager to their team.

[Passacaglia]

This all seems like a lot of scans. Plus, you get to know everything that happens to Racer, once he scanned you?

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Conversion = wolves turn a villager to their team.

I understand the meaning but not the mechanism. Does it have to be implicitly stated that it's in play? Is it a specific wolfs role? Stuff like that. What makes us know that it's even possible considering the original post on roles doesn't say it is. That's what I don't know.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Right now the only thing I don't understand is how conversion works. I've never played a game where it's included. Is it a wolf role that's not revealed?

If it is then we may have lost somebody last night and beefed up the wolf count but then we'd get it back tomorrow when we lynched hoopsguy.

Otherwise, we do have a free lynch so to speak so taking hoops lead won't hurt us and either way, we get some information where voting anyone else wouldn't do that.

So I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now since we can kill him tomorrow if the information is off.

VOTE ALAN T

If there's hidden wolf roles or other roles that could affect this that I am unaware of I'll reconsider. Are there any roles where the wolves can sniff out other peoples roles?

I think that is what Hoopsguy wants though. I would highly recommend that once I die tonight that you go after Racer tommorrow instead of Hoopsguy

I'm also guessing what Hoops says about Render is likely true that he is a villager. Often wolves will mix in some simblance of truth with their fiction, so he obviously threw Render out as a "trusted" villager in hopes to buy his vote back.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

This all seems like a lot of scans. Plus, you get to know everything that happens to Racer, once he scanned you?

N1 scan - RendeR
N2 scan - Alan

Those are the only scans. Racer has not scanned me, but he knows that Alan is a wolf from his scan last night. His vote reflects this.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I understand the meaning but not the mechanism. Does it have to be implicitly stated that it's in play? Is it a specific wolfs role? Stuff like that. What makes us know that it's even possible considering the original post on roles doesn't say it is. That's what I don't know.

All of those options have been in play. There's been powers to convert anyone instead of a night kill which is a PITA since it means someone who's been good can turn someone bad, and basically kills all previous analysis -- and it's more of a PITA when it's not mentioned in the rules. Sometimes there is a player who will convert instead of dying when the wolves awttack him. But I think it depends on the GM -- some GMs like to have the rules not tell you everything, so that you don't know what's coming (and I gotta say, for all the flak I get about my games being confusing, I pride myself on keeping everything going on in the rules).

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I understand the meaning but not the mechanism. Does it have to be implicitly stated that it's in play? Is it a specific wolfs role? Stuff like that. What makes us know that it's even possible considering the original post on roles doesn't say it is. That's what I don't know.

That's the fun thing.. you don't know. I've seen various mechanisms, and generally it's not stated in the rules whether or not it's in play.

And I actually had one game where I was half-converted.. now THAT was weird.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I understand the meaning but not the mechanism. Does it have to be implicitly stated that it's in play? Is it a specific wolfs role? Stuff like that. What makes us know that it's even possible considering the original post on roles doesn't say it is. That's what I don't know.

It varies from game to game. The rules for this one don't give us any idea what is in play for the wolves.

When there isn't a night kill, it usually means block by bodygaurd or conversion. The bodyguard should know if he blocked an attack, and may or may not have further information. The rest of us are left to speculate as to what happened last night.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think that is what Hoopsguy wants though. I would highly recommend that once I die tonight that you go after Racer tommorrow instead of Hoopsguy

I'm also guessing what Hoops says about Render is likely true that he is a villager. Often wolves will mix in some simblance of truth with their fiction, so he obviously threw Render out as a "trusted" villager in hopes to buy his vote back.

I can see that if you're not a wolf.

What I don't get in any case is why such a strong play this early with no wolves down. I agree that it seems a bit odd to have this much knowledge early but unless we were really close to getting a wolf and it was a forgone conclusion that we would tonight, I just can't understand the play this early.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

It probably wasn't my right to "out" the seer in exchange for a wolf - that should be his call. But Alan is a tough out (he defends himself well) and I wanted to try and avoid him setting the tone by posting before Racer. I've seen how that plays out in other games.

Once again, this post from Hoops was posturing for everyone else. I was the one that outed Racer, not Hoops. If I was a wolf, then Hoops wouldn't be worried about outing the seer as I would already know who it was. This post is purely presentation for everyone else as he tries to go back and tie up any loose ends in his story before people call him out on it.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

N1 scan - RendeR
N2 scan - Alan

Those are the only scans. Racer has not scanned me, but he knows that Alan is a wolf from his scan last night. His vote reflects this.

So you're saying that BOTH you and Racer scanned Alan last night?

[hoopsguy]

So far the wolves have avoided coming to Alan's defense with votes - the only vote aligned with him is from a villager.

I don't really care how this plays out - a rout where everyone jumps on board and there is no real vote analysis to be had, or a close one that provides an opportunity for vote analysis - so long as we lynch the wolf (Alan) today.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So far the wolves have avoided coming to Alan's defense with votes - the only vote aligned with him is from a villager.

I wonder why this is!!?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Telle

So you're saying that BOTH you and Racer scanned Alan last night?

No, the seer puts in the scans. I did not scan Alan, but I did learn the result of Racer's scan on him. Just as I learned the result of the N1 scan on RendeR.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I wonder why this is!!?

We both know the answer. We both know that you are the one "posturing" here. They want to see if you can sway people first - if you are a lost cause, then they aren't going to want to be linked to you later.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

We both know the answer. We both know that you are the one "posturing" here. They want to see if you can sway people first - if you are a lost cause, then they aren't going to want to be linked to you later.

Couldn't the same be said for you if you're the wolf?

[hoopsguy]

KWhit, Olie - what are your thoughts on today's revelations?

[Axxon]

So, I'm guessing that we don't know how it works in this game.

Usually I'd hate this idea but honestly , it fits the Mythos so well I kinda like it.

Anyone have any idea what The Bearer of the Necronomicon can be? We know it's linked to the Old Ones and we know that the author was a worshiper of Cthulhu (who has telepathic powers). It wouldn't seem a stretch that the bearer of this book could somehow have a link to a psychic or have some sort of psychic powers himself.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

We both know the answer. We both know that you are the one "posturing" here. They want to see if you can sway people first - if you are a lost cause, then they aren't going to want to be linked to you later.

I don't really see any way for me to sway anyone today. If I was a wolf, I would absolutely make sure that the wolves were the first ones voting for me today. The fact that hasn't happened probably is a telling sign to other vets whom have played with me as a wolf before. They know as well as you do how quickly I would tell people to give up on me and vote for me.

I don't really mind dying at all if it gets us wolves, but the only thing I want to take from today is once I do die and people see the truth, that you kill Racer before Hoopsguy. He obviously is protecting him for some reason that we don't know. My guess is Racer might be a cunning wolf or some other important wolf role.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Telle

Couldn't the same be said for you if you're the wolf?

Yep. That is not the case, but I see your point.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Conversion? Bodyguard block?

In unrelated news, we've got a wolf. I'm not going to try and finesse this, but just put the vote out there and hope that people fall in line. I'll accept any and all consequences for this being a bad lynch, but it won't be.

VOTE ALAN T

Excellent. This is an easy vote then.

Vote AlanT

[Alan T]

I guess the one plus side about today is all of these posts count.

[Passacaglia]

I guess when LSG shows up, she'll feel a lot better, since hoops and Alan aren't on the same side.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Render, I really wish you were not following Alan's lead. Because you are the other person that I know to be a villager. So I know that you are wrong with good intentions, rather than trying to aid a fellow wolf.

Firstly am ont following Alan's lead. I trust alan about as far as I trust you which is to say not at all.

Secondly, HOW? how do you know I'm good? That 2 people you've supposedly cleared, Racer and now me, NEITHER of which is a typical or obvious choice or scanning if you were the seer. totally off the radar choices which, old friend, you would never make. you MIGHT decide to check me out if I were on the lynch block and you thought maybe I was ok, but I haven't been anywhere near it and neither has racer.

your logic isn't holding up. What happens if another player sides against you? are you going to say you know they're good to? you're not giving us ANY reason to believe you at this stage.

At least what Alan is saying has a plausibility to it. your's is like the smoke at a magic show, its al fluff and no magic.

Work with me here. Convince me to trust you.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Excellent. This is an easy vote then.

Vote AlanT

Explain yourselkf. Why do you trust this?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Axxon

So, I'm guessing that we don't know how it works in this game.

Usually I'd hate this idea but honestly , it fits the Mythos so well I kinda like it.

Anyone have any idea what The Bearer of the Necronomicon can be? We know it's linked to the Old Ones and we know that the author was a worshiper of Cthulhu (who has telepathic powers). It wouldn't seem a stretch that the bearer of this book could somehow have a link to a psychic or have some sort of psychic powers himself.

I've been curious about that myself.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Firstly am ont following Alan's lead. I trust alan about as far as I trust you which is to say not at all.

Secondly, HOW? how do you know I'm good? That 2 people you've supposedly cleared, Racer and now me, NEITHER of which is a typical or obvious choice or scanning if you were the seer. totally off the radar choices which, old friend, you would never make. you MIGHT decide to check me out if I were on the lynch block and you thought maybe I was ok, but I haven't been anywhere near it and neither has racer.

your logic isn't holding up. What happens if another player sides against you? are you going to say you know they're good to? you're not giving us ANY reason to believe you at this stage.

At least what Alan is saying has a plausibility to it. your's is like the smoke at a magic show, its al fluff and no magic.

Work with me here. Convince me to trust you.

hoops said Racer was the one that scanned you.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

but the only thing I want to take from today is once I do die and people see the truth, that you kill Racer before Hoopsguy. He obviously is protecting him for some reason that we don't know. My guess is Racer might be a cunning wolf or some other important wolf role.

This is the kind of post someone makes when they are the cunning wolf. And I know Alan replies with "this is the kind of post a villager makes". I'll save you the effort (or posturing, to use your word).

90% bluff - Alan dies as a wolf
10% cunning wolf pushing you to the seer next

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Pass, what more do you want to know?

Racer is the seer.
Alan is a wolf.
I've got another role, as a result I've been privy to Racer's [b]cleared[./b] list.

I'm ecstatic that he scanned Alan last night, given that Alan's distrust list yesterday included the seer and the person that the seer scanned on Night 1. It is the person that I would have chosen, given the chance.

Now I'm confused. If you could see the cleared list how again do you know Alan T is a wolf??

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

This is the kind of post someone makes when they are the cunning wolf. And I know Alan replies with "this is the kind of post a villager makes". I'll save you the effort (or posturing, to use your word).

90% bluff - Alan dies as a wolf
10% cunning wolf pushing you to the seer next

Ok.. so now when I die and turn up a villager, obviously I am the cunning wolf.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Firstly am ont following Alan's lead. I trust alan about as far as I trust you which is to say not at all.

Secondly, HOW? how do you know I'm good? That 2 people you've supposedly cleared, Racer and now me, NEITHER of which is a typical or obvious choice or scanning if you were the seer. totally off the radar choices which, old friend, you would never make. you MIGHT decide to check me out if I were on the lynch block and you thought maybe I was ok, but I haven't been anywhere near it and neither has racer.

your logic isn't holding up. What happens if another player sides against you? are you going to say you know they're good to? you're not giving us ANY reason to believe you at this stage.

At least what Alan is saying has a plausibility to it. your's is like the smoke at a magic show, its al fluff and no magic.

Work with me here. Convince me to trust you.

OK, lets start working here.
1.) I didn't pick to scan Racer
2.) I didn't pick the scans
3.) I've published the scans. There won't be any other players that I will suggest have been scanned because there have only been two scans. You = good aura. Alan = bad guy who saw the seer (per the PM)
4.) I've tried to provide some level of mystery for the wolves in their next actions by not revealing all the particulars on my role. It is clear, from the PM I saw and Alan's posts, that they 100% know Racer is the seer

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

This is the kind of post someone makes when they are the cunning wolf. And I know Alan replies with "this is the kind of post a villager makes". I'll save you the effort (or posturing, to use your word).

90% bluff - Alan dies as a wolf
10% cunning wolf pushing you to the seer next

By cunning wolf, you mean a wolf that is revealed as a villager upon death, rather than a wolf who scans as a villager?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Ok.. so now when I die and turn up a villager, obviously I am the cunning wolf.

Hoops just had another failure in his logic. Obviously if I was the cunning wolf I would have turned up a villager to his or Racer's or whoever is now the supposed seer's scan and they wouldn't have had to out me.

This message from Hoops is just a set up for the next stage of his plan when I do turn up a villager he has to have his story straight.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, lets start working here.
1.) I didn't pick to scan Racer
2.) I didn't pick the scans
3.) I've published the scans. There won't be any other players that I will suggest have been scanned because there have only been two scans. You = good aura. Alan = bad guy who saw the seer (per the PM)
4.) I've tried to provide some level of mystery for the wolves in their next actions by not revealing all the particulars on my role. It is clear, from the PM I saw and Alan's posts, that they 100% know Racer is the seer

So...you're saying you've outed the seer, but are afraid to out yourself?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Now I'm confused. If you could see the cleared list how again do you know Alan T is a wolf??

"cleared" list was a bad choice of words since only one of the two is "cleared". I have seen both of Racer's scans and have every reason to believe I'll see his future scans as well as long as we are both alive to do so.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, if I end up being a wolf then I promise not to kill you on Night 1. And if my teammates do not demand it over my objections.

I'm sure you feel much better.

Just bringing this back up since it became applicable. Thanks for living up to your word

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Hoops just had another failure in his logic. Obviously if I was the cunning wolf I would have turned up a villager to his or Racer's or whoever is now the supposed seer's scan and they wouldn't have had to out me.

This message from Hoops is just a set up for the next stage of his plan when I do turn up a villager he has to have his story straight.

No, it is me being a little paranoid about the direction your posts are taking. I know we are getting a wolf when you are lynched. I'm hoping you have any role besides cunning because that would muddle things up for tomorrow.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

By cunning wolf, you mean a wolf that is revealed as a villager upon death, rather than a wolf who scans as a villager?

Yes. And I strongly doubt that this will be the case - that role isn't around all that often. But Alan's posts just sounded like he was trying to lay some groundwork.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So...you're saying you've outed the seer, but are afraid to out yourself?

I have in the thread, but the PM was pretty clear in that the wolves already knew the seer. I have no reason to believe they know my role, although they can probably piece quite a bit of the mechanics together based on my posts in the thread.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Just bringing this back up since it became applicable. Thanks for living up to your word

Amusing Not applicable, but amusing.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Yes. And I strongly doubt that this will be the case - that role isn't around all that often. But Alan's posts just sounded like he was trying to lay some groundwork.

So now somehow I am a cunning wolf that will show up villager when I die, yet didn't show up villager on my scan but somehow knew that Hoopsguy and Racer were both villager teammates who could communicate somehow and that racer was the seer.

Who was saying we should stick to the simplest scenerio earlier?

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

"cleared" list was a bad choice of words since only one of the two is "cleared". I have seen both of Racer's scans and have every reason to believe I'll see his future scans as well as long as we are both alive to do so.

If your power is to see the seers list so to speak the only advantage I can see to that power is to actually protect the seer but you outed him as the seer. Alan T outed that he had a role but not necessarily as the seer. I'm still confused and right now, while I'm leaning to trusting you still I most humbly must

UNVOTE ALAN T

until I have had time to really think this over.