2008-2009 College Basketball Thread......

[muns]

Originally Posted by yacovfb

Agree with pretty much everything you've written although Nebraska was also Pederson's alma mater, another (and probably main) reason he bolted.

Your right I forgot about that. Thanks for the correction

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by muns

Your right I forgot about that. Thanks for the correction

No one's said the real reason this won't happen.

Howland.

Dixon and Howland are best of friends. They can't stand playing each other. When they met in the NCAAs two years ago, it was grating for both of them to have to play each other. No way they decide to play in the same conference, forcing them to play each other at least twice and maybe three times per season.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by muns

It is amazing where Few could have landed but choose to stay. You think this might be the year he bolts since its not his usual kick ass year?

I'd think it quite likely. Both in terms of how they've played this year, and the fact that St. Mary's (pre-Mills injury, anyhow) are beginning to nip at their heels now. The losses of Pargo and Heytvelt will be big, too, and I think next year they'll need to bank on Daye really taking that next big step and, from watching him this year, I'm not so sure he has it in him.

Few does have a top-100 swingman coming in, but I still have a strong feeling that he'll be elsewhere after this year.

[Swaggs]

I don't disagree that some or all of Pitt's defections have had reasons, personal or not, for leaving. But the fact remains that essentially all of their successful coaches have left for other college jobs over the past 30-years. I think it is because athletics are not a top priority (or have not always been a priority) and they do not have a competitive AD budget, which is fine, as its priority is maintaining itself as a top notch academic school.

Maybe Dixon wants to be Pitt's Lute Olson or Jim Calhoun, but I wouldn't be surprised if he receives the full-court press from Arizona this off season. And, I don't think his current recruiting class or the current state of Arizona's basketball program will deter him.

Either way, whether he stays or goes, he is due to receive a big payday this offseason when you consider his age and how ridiculous his record has been in his first six-years on the job (in the Big East, no less).

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No one's said the real reason this won't happen.

Howland.

Dixon and Howland are best of friends. They can't stand playing each other. When they met in the NCAAs two years ago, it was grating for both of them to have to play each other. No way they decide to play in the same conference, forcing them to play each other at least twice and maybe three times per season.

I have heard this before and think it is ridiculous, whether it is true or not. I cannot imagine anyone denying themselves the opportunity to pursue success in their field AND limit their (and their family's) income opportunities because it is THAT difficult to face a friend. And, I cannot imagine it would be any more stressful than playing for a conference championship or in the Final Four.

Again, I have heard it said, so I know you aren't pulling it out of your ass. But, I see those types of statements made purely out of respect for one another rather than them being legitimate factors in career choices.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I have heard this before and think it is ridiculous, whether it is true or not. I cannot imagine anyone denying themselves the opportunity to pursue success in their field AND limit their (and their family's) income opportunities because it is THAT difficult to face a friend. And, I cannot imagine it would be any more stressful than playing for a conference championship or in the Final Four.

Again, I have heard it said, so I know you aren't pulling it out of your ass. But, I see those types of statements made purely out of respect for one another rather than them being legitimate factors in career choices.

Well, I think if an opportunity came up that truly was a step up for Dixon, that that this consideration would not stop it. The thing is, I think there is only one program in the West that is a clear step up from what Dixon is doing right now at Pitt, and that is UCLA. Obviously, then, there can be no conflict, for for Dixon to go to UCLA (and I am pretty sure he is on their shortlist if Howland were to leave), Howland would have to leave.

Arizona is tricky. I don't know that they will pay enough to lure him. Lute was AZ's draw. They were nothing before he came around. So that would be rolling a lot of dice to give AZ a run when he already has a very good job in one of the country's top conferences.

If there was a major non-Pac 10 conference out West with a superpower of some sort, I could see it drawing him, regardless of what it would mean between him and Howland. But no Pac 10 program that doesn't already have Howland as a coach is enough to draw him over against his objections to having to play his friend 2-3 times per year.

[MrBug708]

It's never a good thing to follow a legend. That being said, you should see the wishlist over at the Arizona sites. And they are dead serious about this interest (according to posters over there)

Izzo, Cal, Pitino, Donovan - Top List
Back up - Few, Dixon
Longshots - Sean Miller, Tubby Smith

And Chief, I think the playing Howland 2-3 times a year has been overplayed. Sure it might be a concern, but if he wants to come out West, it won't be an issue. No other job is worth coming out here if you are Dixon.

That also being said, Arizona is going to be epically bad next year. I doubt the new coach can convince both Chase and Hill to come back for another season

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by yacovfb

Pitt's already a major player in the conference. 8 straight years of 20+ wins and 10+ conference wins. Now he has to make Pitt a player in the NCAA's...never been past the sweet 16, although that's got to change this year I hope.

I guesss it just depends on how you spin their NCAA results as to whether Pitt has been a successful tourney team.

SportingNews.com - Your expert source for NCAA Basketball stats, scores, standings, and blogs from NCAA Basketball columnists

Before Kansas coach Bill Self stood underneath the Alamodome and raised the championship trophy last April, he was widely considered a disappointment as an NCAA Tournament coach.

Self owned a career NCAA Tournament winning percentage of .640 entering the 2008 championship. That's better than Hall of Famers Jim Boeheim, John Chaney and Lou Carnesecca.

So here's what elevated Self from failure: a missed free throw by Memphis' Derrick Rose and a missed 3-pointer by Davidson's Jason Richards.

That's how silly this stuff can be sometimes.

Somebody asked the other day if Pitt "needs" to reach the Final Four this season. On one hand, the answer would be yes because the Panthers might need a few years before they again have a chance like this.

But what seemed to be implied was that many fans will consider the Panthers to again have disappointed in the NCAAs if they don't reach this year's Final Four. In fact, Pitt rarely has fallen short of its potential in the Howland/Dixon era.

Since the Panthers appeared in the 2002 event, they own a respectable .588 NCAA winning percentage that reflects four tips to the Sweet 16 and a single first-round elimination, in 2005.

In most of their eliminations, the Panthers were defeated by teams with superior, NBA-type talent: Marquette and Dwyane Wade in 2003, Oklahoma State and Joey Graham in 2004, Patrick O'Bryant and Bradley in 2006. Those kinds of players typically win NCAA Tournament games. Until this season, Pitt hasn't had more of them on its side.

Pitt has been the decade's ultimate overachiever, consistently contending for Big East championships with players undervalued by other programs and of little use to the NBA. The Panthers should be celebrated for their March accomplishments. Maybe if their opponents miss a few big shots on the way to Detroit, the Panthers will get their due this year.


This week's top 10:

1. Connecticut. It's too early to judge how the Huskies will respond to the absence of wing scorer Jerome Dyson. They're going to miss him. They've got several weeks to figure out how to account for what his departure removes.

2. Oklahoma. The Sooners continue to improve as athletic 6-6 wing Juan Pattillo establishes himself in the rotation. In the seven games in which he's played double-figure minutes, their average margin of victory is 12 points.

3. North Carolina. It is tempting to move the Tar Heels ahead of the Sooners. OU has more top 100 victories, but Carolina has won on the road over Duke, Florida State and Miami. We'll hold off on the coup, though, because OU goes to Texas on Saturday. Let's give the Sooners their chance to win another big road game.

4. Pitt. As others falter, the Panthers move steadily forward. They're still only 7-2 against the RPI top 50, but they've still lost only two games. The Panthers' defining stretch comes now, with three of the next four on the road -- Connecticut, Providence and Seton Hall -- followed by home closers against Marquette and UConn. Ouch.

5. Michigan State. The best stat of the year, until further notice: MSU still has not lost a single game played at full strength. (Although it'd be nice if Raymar Morgan heals and returns the Spartans to full strength soon). Word from Booth Newspapers reporter Steve Grinczel is Morgan practiced Sunday, and he is expected to play in Tuesday's Big Ten showdown at Purdue.

6. Duke. It is tempting to stop at five, because that is the list of teams that have not stumbled onto our bad side. The Blue Devils lost three times in the past four games as they work through more point guard issues. They still have huge wins over Xavier, Florida State and Purdue to remind them of what they can be.

7. Wake Forest. The Deacs ought to win three of their next four: Georgia Tech, N.C. State and a road game at Virginia. If they get through that OK, the questions about what's gone wrong should cease.

8. Xavier. Not many teams own two victories against teams on this list. (Wake is another). It's just hard to do, which is why the Musketeers stick around even after losing two of their past three.

9. Missouri. Welcome to the top 10, Tigers. Would you like to have Mike Anderson arm-wrestle Oklahoma's Jeff Capel for national coach of the year?

10. Memphis. A whole lot of people in Memphis are going to be mad about this. Their team hasn't lost since before Christmas and they believe that momentum should count for more. But this poll is about accomplishment, and the most important qualification is beating quality teams. It's hard to get past the fact the Tigers lost to nearly half the good teams they played. And the use of the word "nearly" is a tad generous. If I were to exclude UAB from that list, which is defensible, it would be "exactly" half.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I guesss it just depends on how you spin their NCAA results as to whether Pitt has been a successful tourney team.

SportingNews.com - Your expert source for NCAA Basketball stats, scores, standings, and blogs from NCAA Basketball columnists

Just giving the sentiment from on campus Now, if this team doesn't make it past the sweet 16 then there will be even more disappointment about it. The other Pitt team's during this 8 year run were solid, but never really were favored in the sweet 16 matchups. This year will be much different as a 1 or, worst case a 2 seed.

[Dr. Sak]

I never thought I'd see the day when Swaggs was defending Pitt. You sir are a traitor and are no longer welcome in my house.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by yacovfb

Just giving the sentiment from on campus Now, if this team doesn't make it past the sweet 16 then there will be even more disappointment about it. The other Pitt team's during this 8 year run were solid, but never really were favored in the sweet 16 matchups. This year will be much different as a 1 or, worst case a 2 seed.

I can certainly see that opinion coming from a college student point-of-view. As you get older, you quickly realize that the years that you thought were 'failures' were actually great years. It just takes a downturn of a few years for you to quickly realize as a fan that you'd give anything to have the program back that you used to criticize as not being good enough.

Take it from a Mizzou fan who took the regular tourney appearances under Norm Stewart for granted. I'm glad that Mizzou is back in the hunt now, but the previous 4 years have been very tough as a fan.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I never thought I'd see the day when Swaggs was defending Pitt. You sir are a traitor and are no longer welcome in my house.

come on Sak you know you love the panthers

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by muns

come on Sak you know you love the panthers

I got my Masters Degree from there only because it was free. I won't even display that diploma because it says University of Pittsburgh.

[muns]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

It's never a good thing to follow a legend. That being said, you should see the wishlist over at the Arizona sites. And they are dead serious about this interest (according to posters over there)

Izzo, Cal, Pitino, Donovan - Top List
Back up - Few, Dixon
Longshots - Sean Miller, Tubby Smith

And Chief, I think the playing Howland 2-3 times a year has been overplayed. Sure it might be a concern, but if he wants to come out West, it won't be an issue. No other job is worth coming out here if you are Dixon.

That also being said, Arizona is going to be epically bad next year. I doubt the new coach can convince both Chase and Hill to come back for another season

Delusional is what comes to mind when reading that.

I dont see any of those top 6 that were listed as being interested.

Sean Miller and Tubby Smith are interesting though. Tubby has turned the Minnesota team around and has a very very nice class coming in next year. Minnesota isnt exactly known for stuff though, and Miller is a fantastic coach. While Xavier is ranked and can bring in kids would Zona be a step up?

Im not sure but those 2 for me at least are interesting. Anyone else got any opinions on those last 2?

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I got my Masters Degree from there only because it was free. I won't even display that diploma because it says University of Pittsburgh.

Cant hate a PSU diehard for that can I?

[dawgfan]

I dunno Muns, I think Few would listen hard to an offer from Arizona.

[muns]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I dunno Muns, I think Few would listen hard to an offer from Arizona.

I think you are right here. Due to his team not having a typical season, and the fact that he has turned down more than his fair share of opportunities. Might be the perfect time to bolt. He made a winner of of the Zags, he certianly is capable of doing the same in Arizona.

[DataKing]

Few has been a sought-after guy for a number of years now. I know he was considered for the Kansas job after Roy Williams went to UNC. Pretty sure Bill Self was the first one to receive the offer, but I know they looked at Few.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I never thought I'd see the day when Swaggs was defending Pitt. You sir are a traitor and are no longer welcome in my house.

..says the Pitt graduate.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I got my Masters Degree from there only because it was free. I won't even display that diploma because it says University of Pittsburgh.

Damn... you outted yourself before I had the chance?

I cannot believe you would admit to having a degree from Pitt.

[Karlifornia]

Yeah, kind of hard to take any hate seriously when you..uh..went to school there.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Yeah, kind of hard to take any hate seriously when you..uh..went to school there.

It was not by choice...it was free. I wasn't going to tell my work, "No I don't want you to pay for my $25,000 a year masters because I hate Pitt."

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

It was not by choice...it was free. I wasn't going to tell my work, "No I don't want you to pay for my $25,000 a year masters because I hate Pitt."

Your a dick!!!

PS before people start into me Sak and I went to HS together and he is a great guy that I cant speak enough for, (i just like trying to ruffle his feathers a bit)

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by DataKing

Few has been a sought-after guy for a number of years now. I know he was considered for the Kansas job after Roy Williams went to UNC. Pretty sure Bill Self was the first one to receive the offer, but I know they looked at Few.

I'm pretty happy with how that one turned out (tho I think Few would do a very good job at a large school, too)

SI

[Butter]

Sean Miller took his name out of the ring of some high-profile jobs at the end of last season... would be surprised to see him go anywhere for a while.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm pretty happy with how that one turned out (tho I think Few would do a very good job at a large school, too)

SI

Yeah, you can thank Mike Alden for that coaching hire. As you likely know, he had Quin Snyder and Bill Self at a hotel in KC for interviews. Both wanted the Mizzou job and Alden chose to offer the job to Quin. The rest of the story speaks for itself.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Sean Miller took his name out of the ring of some high-profile jobs at the end of last season... would be surprised to see him go anywhere for a while.

Xavier would be okay. They seem to have an endless supply of guys that can take them to the Sweet Sixteen.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Xavier would be okay. They seem to have an endless supply of guys that can take them to the Sweet Sixteen.

Yes. And for a Dayton fan, that's frustrating as hell.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FYI to Mizzou fans on the board. Sports Illustrated is in Columbia today and will have an article this week on the reemergence of the program.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FYI to Mizzou fans on the board. Sports Illustrated is in Columbia today and will have an article this week on the reemergence of the program.

I've heard rumors Alabama is talking about going after Mike Anderson.. any truth you've heard?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I've heard rumors Alabama is talking about going after Mike Anderson.. any truth you've heard?

VERY doubtful. Wife is reportedly very happy in Columbia. They moved here so they could be closer to family and friends who live in Oklahoma and Arkansas. When asked on Tiger Talk the other night about the Alabama job, he responded, "If Momma's happy, then I'm happy. Right now, Momma's very happy in Columbia."

Knowing how strong of a personality his wife is, that statement speaks volumes.

I have heard that Alabama is trying to coax in Calipari, but Memphis is ready to buck up for another extension and pay raise if they have to do so to keep him there.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

VERY doubtful. Wife is reportedly very happy in Columbia. They moved here so they could be closer to family and friends who live in Oklahoma and Arkansas. When asked on Tiger Talk the other night about the Alabama job, he responded, "If Momma's happy, then I'm happy. Right now, Momma's very happy in Columbia."

Knowing how strong of a personality his wife is, that statement speaks volumes.

I have heard that Alabama is trying to coax in Calipari, but Memphis is ready to buck up for another extension and pay raise if they have to do so to keep him there.

Well.. that's great news. I'm still shocked at the year we are having.. I attribute most to coaching.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

It was not by choice...it was free. I wasn't going to tell my work, "No I don't want you to pay for my $25,000 a year masters because I hate Pitt."

Understood. I would have made the same decision. I'm just surprised that didn't melt away any of the "hate".

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Understood. I would have made the same decision. I'm just surprised that didn't melt away any of the "hate".

I grew up in a Penn State household in the late 70s and 80s where the rivalry was strong.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I grew up in a Penn State household in the late 70s and 80s where the rivalry was strong.

...also, you have a giant crush on Wannstache.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

...also, you have a giant crush on Wannstache.

13-9

[Dr. Sak]

Penn State beats Illinois 38-33...what an ugly game.

[MJ4H]

y i k e s

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Penn State beats Illinois 38-33...what an ugly game.

Did they agree to not use the shot clock?

[Dr. Sak]

Illinois didn't go to the line the entire game.

[Karlifornia]

How many TD's for Juice Williams?

[Dr. Sak]

Funny thing is Penn State scored 38 points in the football game against illinois this season...38-24

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

How many TD's for Juice Williams?

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

As a Mizzou fan, you see a result like that Illinois game and curse your luck that the one night you played them, one of their guards was suddenly unconscious from deep. Just baffling.

[hoopsguy]

Well, I think it goes a little deeper than that. The Illini have the look of a team that peaked too early. They are not all that talented this season, and it sure seems like the rest of the Big Ten has caught up to them in terms of figuring out how to defend this group of players.

[Chief Rum]

UCLA got a key and needed win tonight. It did not happen easily. Most of the game, I thought UCLA was the better team on the floor tonight, but UDub showed their chops and stuck with it, and made some good runs, including tying it twice late.

Very relieved to get the win in a game that could have gone either way for most of the night. One thing is for sure (not that I doubted this, since I knew going into this season that the Huskies had a chance to be good this year), but UDub is good. Brockman's just a beast underneath (can't wait for him to graduate, why the hell didn't he go pro two years ago?!? Better than Hansbrough and Harangody, IMO), Dentmon never seems to be able to be stopped and is a great shooter with range, and the team just has a lot of nice players that contribute in various ways.

[dawgfan]

Closer game than I expected, but once again the UW fails to come through in Pauley Pavilion. UW is now just .5 games ahead of UCLA, ASU & Cal.

Interesting how, after a lot of discussion about fouls and the UW's "aggressiveness" in the LA papers, the game was called very loosely with only 27 fouls called in the game (as opposed to 46 in the first game).

[sterlingice]

So, I've been watching Butler/Davidson on ESPN. They keep talking about how if Butler doesn't win their conference tourney, they're not an at large team. What? A team in the top 25 with a top 25 RPI wouldn't be in? Realistically, a loss drops them to ~30ish with a 30~35 RPI, so please tell me these announcers are just idiots.

EDIT: Never mind, I guess they've lost twice this week so they won't be in the top 25 when the new poll comes out

SI

[Chief Rum]

I can't stand this UCLA team. It's just a maddening team to root for. I can't count on anything from these guys. I mean, should have/could have beaten ASU last week (but for the refs), and then they mail it in the first half versus Arizona. They come back and get a huge win against UDub, and right now, they're going to have to go thru contortions in the final minute or so to come back on Wazzu...at home!

I almost want this season to jut end, and let's start anew next year with another class coming in.

[Chief Rum]

And the Bruins do indeed fall, and to a team that outplayed them, if not out-talented them. Taylor Rochestie basically had the game of his life.

I'll give UCLA kudos for really hitting its shots and making it close in the end (final score 82-81 with UCLA's desperation half court shot blocked)--they really just ran out of time.

But that's why it's so critically important to start making these plays earlier in the game, to show up from the start, so you don't have to go through this stuff.

And not to harp on it, but the refs again played a role. There was a WSU turnover (shouldabeena) along the left side of the court, and somehow the refs gave it back to Wazzu. No one from UCLA even touched the ball in that whole play, Wazzu lost the ball out of bounds, and somehow, the ball went back to Wazzu.

But, really, this comes down to UCLA not wanting it again, not wanting it enough. Like I said before, very frustrating team to follow.