The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

wow hell of a history, ben <3

Thanks, but frankly, other than the fact that he was not born on American soil, the rest of this story is fairly common, yet something we don't think about, perhaps because we wrongly tend to view history in vignettes (heh, or perhaps a better word would be dispensations...) rather than in a more holistic manner. I mean, everyone here knows just about all of these facts off the top of their head, right?

• The percentage of black population in the Deep South far exceeds that in any other part of the country.
• In the 40s and 50s, the military was perhaps the best opportunity that black men had for somewhat-equal treatment.
• World War II ended in 1945.
• The Korean War ended in 1953.
• Brown vs. Board of Education was in 1954, but the bulk of the advances from the Civil Rights movement in the Deep South weren't made until the 60s.

Add all that up, and you had a metric buttload of black soldiers who fought the Nazis, Imperial Japan, and/or the communists in Korea and came home to an overtly racist society. True, not all of them went to OCS and earned commissions, but the rest of his narrative isn't that unusual. My impression is that between 1/4 and 1/3 of the male heads of households in my neighborhood were veterans of WW2 and/or Korea. (Now, in fairness, that was in Columbus, GA, which borders Ft. Benning--one of our largest bases--so of course the population of ex-soldiers was elevated there, but you get the point.) I can point to a least a dozen families just from my neighborhood that were headed by WW2/Korea vets whose children became the first generation in their families' histories to attend college.

[ezlee2]

Thanks for sharing Ben.

[miami_fan]

This screenshot of the word "shithole" on CNN provided me way too much joy this morning.

[bronconick]

Hearing Rick Wilson say "I will gut you like a fish on this show" to the Trump supporter on Don Lemon made my night.

[JPhillips]

Trump is arguing for an end to the American dream.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump is arguing for an end to the American dream.

It's the logical extension of the GOP's "Fuck you, I've got mine" policy.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by bronconick

It's the logical extension of the GOP's "Fuck you, I've got mine" policy.

Coming to the conclusion that this is the basic platform is really what moved me away from the party. I don't really feel like they want to improve anything, and if anyone else improves themselves they're just a risk of competition. They want people to have just enough as to not bitch or complain so they can live their own lives without having to think about or hear from anyone else.

Anyone else should shut up, go to jail, leave the country, or die.

[Kodos]

That's quite a platform.

[JPhillips]

Trump never clearly stated his immigration policy preferences and said publicly that he would sign whatever the congressional leaders brought to him. Now he's attacking the bipartisan compromise and saying he'd veto, again without clearly stating what he wants done.

Even for his GOP supporters, how do you work with this guy?

[QuikSand]

Apparently he's decided to "fake news" his way out of his fuckup. It will work with the usual crowd, who likely don't care anyway and find it just great that we have a POTUS who "isn't afraid to say what we're all thinking."

I really hope there's some semblance of a Republican Party after all this has blown over. It's better for the nation to have multiple legitimate visions for policy and direction -- and this isn't one.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Immigrants from Africa have higher rates of bachelor degrees than Americans (41% to 33%). Nigeria for instance gets graduate degrees at over twice what white Americans do (26% to 11%).

It's a myth that we're taking in "lottery winners" who live off the teet of the government from many of these countries.

I guess they can be referred to as shitholes but the people who come from those shitholes are outperforming Americans who were born with an inherent advantage.

I did mean to say take the bright-and-brightest from any country assuming security concerns vetted, and was not implying to disregard continent of Africa or Haiti.

On the lottery winners, I actually did not find any stats on how they are doing. I saw stats on countries they came from.

I do think lottery winners have a certain level of education (e.g. the application process, reading about it in the internet etc.) but why not free up the 50K positions for foreigners that have come to the US and studied in US colleges for graduate degrees? It helps us and "hurts" our competition (e.g. China, Russia, EU etc.)

[Drake]

What are all the ultra-conservative folks on my FB feed who have already defended his remarks as 100% accurate going to do if he walks it back as fake news now?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Drake

What are all the ultra-conservative folks on my FB feed who have already defended his remarks as 100% accurate going to do if he walks it back as fake news now?

Hey, they've signed up for this rodeo. Saddle up and hold on for your full eight seconds, snowflake.

[PilotMan]

From a WH email blast this morning:

Today, President Donald J. Trump will sign the official proclamation making this Monday, January 15, the “Martin Luther King Jr. Federal Holiday.” This year marks the first time in more than a decade that the federal holiday falls on King’s actual birthday.

Trump made it happen! Thank you!!!!!

edit:

Along the same lines, in the same mailer this is rather ironic in light of recent events:

We celebrate King first and foremost for standing up for the self-evident truth Americans hold so dear: No matter the color of our skin, or the place of our birth, we are ALL created equal by God.

[JPhillips]

This is odd, given that he didn't say it.

Trump "loves it," a source familiar with the President’s thinking on the "shithole" comments told CNN.

However, a friend outside the White House told Trump that this is a mistake, that it’s alienating constituencies he needs, including business, and that the language has to stop.

Further, this source said Trump loves taking things to the edge and proving he won’t fall off.

President Trump spent his Thursday night phoning aides, allies and friends, asking them how they thought the “shithole” remark was playing out in the press.

One White House official referred to this as a “victory lap.”

[JPhillips]

More than one-fifth of Donald Trump’s US condominiums have been purchased since the 1980s in secretive, all-cash transactions that enable buyers to avoid legal scrutiny by shielding their finances and identities, a BuzzFeed News investigation has found.

Records show that more than 1,300 Trump condominiums were bought not by people but by shell companies, and that the purchases were made without a mortgage, avoiding inquiries from lenders.

Those two characteristics signal that a buyer may be laundering money, the Treasury Department has said in a series of statements since 2016. Treasury’s financial-crimes unit has, in recent years, launched investigations around the country into all-cash shell-company real-estate purchases amid concerns that some such sales may involve money laundering. The agency is considering requiring real-estate professionals to adopt anti-money-laundering programs.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/thomasfrank...9zZ#.xcpzYL3Gq

[cuervo72]

Probably some of the same condos:

Birth tourism brings Russian baby boom to Miami - NBC News

[nol]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

"shithole" countries... have at it

Amazing branding work. Now when you Google “Trump shithole” it’s not all reviews of his hotels.

[thesloppy]

I wish less of our resources went to shithole states.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

OK. Here's a thread for ya.

This is my dad. He grew up dirt poor in the 20s and 30s. As he entered adulthood, he went to work, first as a Pullman porter. Then, after the Japanese attacked us, he was drafted into the Army. He saw combat against the Nazis, 1/ pic.twitter.com/uxoTOjErqE

— Ben Lewis (@benelou) January 12, 2018

Read this thread on Twitter. Thanks for posting it, Ben.

[Ben E Lou]

WSJ reporting that Trump's lawyer arranged a payoff of a porn star a month before the election so she wouldn't go public with an affair she'd had with him a year after he married Melania

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-l...nce-1515787678

[albionmoonlight]

Fascinating. WSJ gets a scoop, and they want to publish it because news, but it hurts Republicans.

Rare example of a paper burying its own scoop with the pre-3-day-weekend release.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

WSJ reporting that Trump's lawyer arranged a payoff of a porn star a month before the election so she wouldn't go public with an affair she'd had with him a year after he married Melania

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-l...nce-1515787678

This story would have been much juicier had she actually gone ahead and run and gained election to the Senate.

[booradley]

If the Dems are going to put Oprah Webfeet up as their candidate, I'm positive Trump will get re-elected.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

WSJ reporting that Trump's lawyer arranged a payoff of a porn star a month before the election so she wouldn't go public with an affair she'd had with him a year after he married Melania

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-l...nce-1515787678

Oh, and if anyone had any sense that Trump would not submit to blackmail to keep embarrassing information from the public . . .

[Ben E Lou]

Conversation going on in the White House right now:

"Sir, you have to get on Twitter and say you didn't bang the porn star."

"But... I did bang the porn star. *wide smile*"

"Sir..."

"Really really..."

"SIR!! NO!"

— RBe (@RBPundit) January 12, 2018

[mckerney]

Does paying a porn star to cover up an he had even register as a scandal for Trump anymore?

Trump's history of breaking decorum with remarks on race, ethnicity - NBC News

A career intelligence analyst who is an expert in hostage policy stood before President Donald Trump in the Oval Office last fall to brief him on the impending release of a family long held in Pakistan under uncertain circumstances.

It was her first time meeting the president, and when she was done briefing, he had a question for her.

"Where are you from?" the president asked, according to two officials with direct knowledge of the exchange.

New York, she replied.

Trump was unsatisfied and asked again, the officials said. Referring to the president's hometown, she offered that she, too, was from Manhattan. But that's not what the president was after.

He wanted to know where "your people" are from, according to the officials, who spoke off the record due to the nature of the internal discussions.

After the analyst revealed that her parents are Korean, Trump turned to an adviser in the room and seemed to suggest her ethnicity should determine her career path, asking why the "pretty Korean lady" isn't negotiating with North Korea on his administration's behalf, the officials said.

At a March meeting with members of the Congressional Black Caucus, Trump asked the elected officials if they knew just one member of his incoming cabinet — Ben Carson — according to two people in the room.

Carson, the only black member of Trump's Cabinet, had never served in Congress and spent his career as a surgeon. None of the lawmakers knew Carson, and Trump found that surprising, the attendees said.

During that same meeting, a member relayed to Trump that potential welfare cuts would harm her constituents, "not all of whom are black." The president replied, "Really? Then what are they?"

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

This story would have been much juicier had she actually gone ahead and run and gained election to the Senate.

I forgot about that. She was going to primary David Vitter after his sex scandal, right?

Also Greitens might be in bigger trouble than thought if the blackmail stuff pans out.

Blackmail alleged as Governor Greitens admits to extramarital af - KMOV.com

[JPhillips]

Foreign outlets struggle to translate “shithole” for their readers. This Croatian paper used “vukojebina,” meaning “the place wolves like to fuck.” No joke. pic.twitter.com/d1xGReVELl

— Andrew Kirell (@AndrewKirell) January 12, 2018

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Foreign outlets struggle to translate “shithole” for their readers. This Croatian paper used “vukojebina,” meaning “the place wolves like to fuck.” No joke. pic.twitter.com/d1xGReVELl

— Andrew Kirell (@AndrewKirell) January 12, 2018

And here I thought it was bears that were into anal, not wolves.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I do think lottery winners have a certain level of education (e.g. the application process, reading about it in the internet etc.) but why not free up the 50K positions for foreigners that have come to the US and studied in US colleges for graduate degrees? It helps us and "hurts" our competition (e.g. China, Russia, EU etc.)

We already do that. F-1 international students can transition into H-1B status from an employer who hires them out of school. Trump is making this more difficult but it's something we do.

Now I guess we can argue that we should only be bringing in highly educated people from other countries. But that would limit the choices to countries like Norway that have that infrastructure in place. Problem is that people from those countries don't want to come here. Norway has a higher quality of life so unless you're in a specialized profession only offered here (Hollywood for instance), you're not going to have much luck.

After that, I'd think the next best plan is to bring in immigrants who will make the country better. People who will work hard and go to school to make something of themselves (and improve the country). Seems like those "shithole" countries were doing that at higher levels than Americans were which is a good thing.

But this was never about the quality of immigrants being brought in. If it was he wouldn't trash immigrants from countries that significantly outperform Americans in this country. It was about the color of their skin.

[Ksyrup]

So NBC is using the term s-hole instead of the actual word, and it sounds like they are saying asshole. Might as well just say shithole.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

So NBC is using the term s-hole instead of the actual word, and it sounds like they are saying asshole. Might as well just say shithole.

Except that I think "shithole" is a much more transgressive word than "asshole" in this context. People throw around the word asshole enough that it minimizes the reprehensible language.

[Ksyrup]

I'm just saying, if the purpose was to avoid swearing on TV, they failed. It's kinda funny actually. No way they didn't realize they were essentially trading one for the other.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

So NBC is using the term s-hole instead of the actual word, and it sounds like they are saying asshole. Might as well just say shithole.

LOL, yeah, that probably wasn't thought through real well.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We already do that. F-1 international students can transition into H-1B status from an employer who hires them out of school. Trump is making this more difficult but it's something we do.

Yes, this does happen. But its not easy on the student to find a job within X days before they go out of status e.g. they don't have 6 months. In the 90's, there were a ton of bogus ads that these employers had to place (e.g. Computerworld) to supposedly ensure these H1-B were not taking US jobs.

All I am saying is make it easier for the 'best-and-brightest' (regardless of national origin) to stay and increase the quota by 50K (or by whatever the supply is). We educated them, let's make it easier for them to stay and contribute to the US.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Now I guess we can argue that we should only be bringing in highly educated people from other countries. But that would limit the choices to countries like Norway that have that infrastructure in place. Problem is that people from those countries don't want to come here. Norway has a higher quality of life so unless you're in a specialized profession only offered here (Hollywood for instance), you're not going to have much luck.

I'm really talking about the F1 students that come to the US and is educated here. I see them as the low-hanging fruit that benefits the US and helps us competitively and hurts the countries they are from (e.g. China).

They have already shown an inclination to be in the US. Their families have shown the ability to support them financially. I'm sure many of them would want to stay. These are the "best-and-brightest" from their respective countries and if they can work in the US vs their respective countries, its a good thing for us competitively in the long run.

The next thing I would focus on then are the professionals that we need. I'm not sure about Drs. but we definitely need Nurses. Open up the flood gates and provide some incentives to foreign Nurses (e.g. I think Philippines has alot of them) and you'll see a ton of migration. Sure they may need to get re-certified etc. but think that is easy enough to do.

I do acknowledge that this process is unfair to others less fortunate.

Oh, I would toss out dual citizenship. IMO it should not be an option for any immigrants.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Oh, I would toss out dual citizenship. IMO it should not be an option for any immigrants.

Just curious as to why. I am dual American/British, not sure I see what the issue is unless you are talking as it may apply to criminal types.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Just curious as to why. I am dual American/British, not sure I see what the issue is unless you are talking as it may apply to criminal types.

No, not criminal types concern.

I see it as a lack of commitment to the country you are immigrating to. If the country welcomes you as a citizen shouldn't you be all in?

If a person does not wish to make the commitment and just wants to be able to work/live, I think many countries provide alternative means (e.g. green card which is first step to a citizenship).

[Edward64]

Something that may just interest me ...

The Obama thread hit #8092 posts on 2/3/2010.

The Trump thread hit it today on 1/12/2018.

I suspect if Trump does 8 years, he'll easily surpass the Obama thread.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Something that may just interest me ...

The Obama thread hit #8092 posts on 2/3/2010.

The Trump thread hit it today on 1/12/2018.

I suspect if Trump does 8 years, he'll easily surpass the Obama thread.

Proof that the Obama thread is sad and the Trump thread is Stable Genius.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Edward64

No, not criminal types concern.

I see it as a lack of commitment to the country you are immigrating to. If the country welcomes you as a citizen shouldn't you be all in?

If a person does not wish to make the commitment and just wants to be able to work/live, I think many countries provide alternative means (e.g. green card which is first step to a citizenship).

I know quite of few people who have dual citizenship. The overwhelming reason is having back up medical care- in case they no longer can afford/buy or lose their American coverage.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Edward64

No, not criminal types concern.

I see it as a lack of commitment to the country you are immigrating to. If the country welcomes you as a citizen shouldn't you be all in?

If a person does not wish to make the commitment and just wants to be able to work/live, I think many countries provide alternative means (e.g. green card which is first step to a citizenship).

If I marry a foreign woman and decide to live overseas it doesn't mean I don't still love this country and wouldn't want to frequently come back to see the rest of my family. I don't see why it should be different for people coming from other countries. I could see where like North Korea or Iran is different, but not the plurality of countries we're friendly and share common interests with.

[Edward64]

The US citizenship oath is

“I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”

Yes, the US allows it and no doubt works to the advantage of the person (which includes a US citizen with another country's citizenship).

Using the US as an example (not sure what the other countries' oaths says), I just see it as "I'll say it but no, I don't really mean it".

[JPhillips]

Some countries do not allow a revocation of citizenship. My daughter will always be a Chinese citizen due to birth and there's no way she could renounce that.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Edward64

No, not criminal types concern.

I see it as a lack of commitment to the country you are immigrating to. If the country welcomes you as a citizen shouldn't you be all in?

If a person does not wish to make the commitment and just wants to be able to work/live, I think many countries provide alternative means (e.g. green card which is first step to a citizenship).

I have never even thought of that as a lack of commitment. I became a US citizen at the age of 10 when my Mother did. I have served in the US military and am in my 40th year of working, thereby contributing to SSN and paying taxes. I am also proud of my British heritage and would never renounce my English citizenship. I feel I have more than shown my commitment to the US, yet also see no reason why I can't proudly hold the citizenship of my birth country as well, considering I was brought to the US as a child.

[BBT]

Trump's mega-rant about how he is the smartest and best at everything, as WSJ tries to ask him about Bannon, must be read to be believed. https://t.co/WAH6qyifpb pic.twitter.com/Gw3vx2nSc7

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) January 12, 2018

[fortheglory]

This forum has become a mostly left leaning progressive groupthink.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I have never even thought of that as a lack of commitment. I became a US citizen at the age of 10 when my Mother did. I have served in the US military and am in my 40th year of working, thereby contributing to SSN and paying taxes. I am also proud of my British heritage and would never renounce my English citizenship. I feel I have more than shown my commitment to the US, yet also see no reason why I can't proudly hold the citizenship of my birth country as well, considering I was brought to the US as a child.

You and JPhillips bring up the scenario of dual citizenships for children and decisions were made for them. And I am not saying people can't be patriotic or be good citizens.

As far as "why not", its because the oath says "I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen".

We can rationalize the reasons & benefits (and it certainly benefits US citizens becoming dual citizens of another country) but it goes against my interpretation of the oath (which in my mind is pretty clear cut).

Because its legal it means even the US acknowledges while the oath is something to be muttered in a formal ceremony, they are not willing to enforce it.

FWIW, I am an immigrant myself (e.g. long story but went thru the F-1 to H1-B to green card to citizenship). I am proud of my heritage and continue to visit my birth country.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by fortheglory

This forum has become a mostly left leaning progressive groupthink.

Trump tends to illicit that reaction. The board has always been fairly left leaning and I used to engage a lot of the boards extreme left guys because of how ridiculous the stuff they said was but right now there isn’t a whole lot to criticize about what they say about Trump. He’s a fool and has no ideology whatsoever.

I will say my usual reminder that for some of us the way they feel about Trump and what they feel is a complete overreach of the federal government is how people like me feel on a lot of programs. I’m sure I will still get called out “The roads Panerd, the roads!” but at least Trump is kind of solidifying the Libertarian position of how even well intended government power becomes a complete disaster when controlled by the wrong people. A good lesson next time a Democrat controls the Presidency and the “this is just temporary” argument is put on the table for why we shouldnt worry about it. (ie Execuctive Orders by the Bush and Obama administrations that were clearly subverting the constitution but weren’t necessarily “evil” or horrible ideas. Now that Trump is using them it is easier to see why Libertarians like the division of government power)