Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Just too many titles in WWE. The Universal Championship probably has prestige because getting off Lesnar was a big deal but the other belts seem like meaningless props at this point.

1 WWE Mens
1 Womens
1 Tag Team
1 Mid/Upper Mid Mens Title is all they need.

Cruiserweight can have a yearly tournament and work off that angle.

I dont think any other titles add any value to the matches the way they are treated these days.

Then you better cut the roster by about 40% (or more) because you literally have nothing for them to do.

I wouldn't worry about cutting the CW title though (even in your scenario) since it's all but 205 Live devoted anyway, it's not really hurting anything either way.

[Maple Leafs]

Somebody please talk me out of my theory that the ending of the main event was botched and that wasn't supposed to be the finish.

[murrayyyyy]

It's one day a year, I don't see the big deal. We don't change world series rules because it keeps us up late when the Red Sox play the Dodgers until 2 AM.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Somebody please talk me out of my theory that the ending of the main event was botched and that wasn't supposed to be the finish.

You mean a rollup to end Mania? Probably a botch but I think it ended how it was going to end (Becky on top over Rousey) or else the ref would have pulled the count expecting her to kick out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

You mean a rollup to end Mania? Probably a botch but I think it ended how it was going to end (Becky on top over Rousey) or else the ref would have pulled the count expecting her to kick out.

I think he means a "pinfall" where the shoulders were up at least as much of the three count as they were down.

[CU Tiger]

setup for a dusty finish announced tonight?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

setup for a dusty finish announced tonight?

It may turn out that way but the momentum seems to be building that it was a straight up botch (or a screwjob)

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

setup for a dusty finish announced tonight?

This is where I thought it was going after it happened. But there are reports floating around that Rousey broke her hand pretty good last night and might be out for a while.

But it could have been a legit mistake by both the ref and Rhonda. I still think it was the finish they wanted.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It may turn out that way but the momentum seems to be building that it was a straight up botch (or a screwjob)

Screwjob would be interesting and might make sense for with the way she reacted.

[CU Tiger]

Ive seen the same.


To me, its either a screw job that because Ronda wouldn't agree to do a clean job, or its a worked shoot to lead to a Dusty finish to prolong the Ronda Becky rivalry.


I think the obvious thought going in was that either Becky or Charlotte would do the job to the other so Ronda remained clean. So maybe this was a swerve ...who knows

[albionmoonlight]

My guess is it's all a work. Whether it's a Dusty finish tonight or just something to keep the feud going and force a rematch, I think that the botched pin was the plan all along.

[Toddzilla]

Regardless of how it was booked, it's what everyone is talking about, so it served it's purpose.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Screwjob would be interesting and might make sense for with the way she reacted.

There's no way they'd pull an actual Montreal-style screwjob on a decorated MMA fighter without an army of backup there just in case. No point putting the belt on Becky is she's a puddle 30 seconds later.

My thought at the time was that they botched what was supposed to be a near-fall. They went into the pin awkwardly, so maybe Ronda thought the ref was counting one and two when he was already on two and three. The finish didn't make a lot of sense for the story they were telling, and didn't feel like the right ending for a big main event. So I wondered if there wasn't something else planned that they couldn't get to because the ref counted three.

Instead, it sounds like that was the finish but they screwed it up a bit by having her shoulders up. That makes sense too, I guess. Simplest explanation is usually correct.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Regardless of how it was booked, it's what everyone is talking about, so it served it's purpose.

What? The plan was to reinforce the notion that they shouldn't have been the main event?

Honestly though, the flurry of "punches" that looked more like two drunk chicks at a Walmart that came before the finish pretty much cemented that in my mind anyway, regardless of the finish.

At no point in the run up did I understand the sudden Man-mania - one of the more bewildering cases of getting over I've seen in a while - and this pretty much reinforced that.

The only thing interesting about the main to me was how they'd book it & how it would play out, it never once struck me as a match worthy of a main for any reason other than fan service.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

What? The plan was to reinforce the notion that they shouldn't have been the main event?

Honestly though, the flurry of "punches" that looked more like two drunk chicks at a Walmart that came before the finish pretty much cemented that in my mind anyway, regardless of the finish.

At no point in the run up did I understand the sudden Man-mania - one of the more bewildering cases of getting over I've seen in a while - and this pretty much reinforced that.

The only thing interesting about the main to me was how they'd book it & how it would play out, it never once struck me as a match worthy of a main for any reason other than fan service.

It was a bad match but who else should have main evented? Rousey is their biggest mainstream draw and WM is an event that draws in casual fans.

Kofi-Bryan was a fun match and the build-up was great. But is that getting any publicity anywhere outside wrestling circles? People genuinely seem bored of Lesnar at this point too. There was no Taker match either.

It just felt like a Wrestlemania that didn't really have a main event.

[RainMaker]

Got around to Takeover.

Damn Adam Cole and Gargano put on a hell of a match. Had not seen a ton of Adam Cole but I can see why he is hyped the way he is.

Also I still think Velveteen Dream is the next great heel. That Gorgeous George/Ric Flair arrogant gimmick never goes out of style and he has a nice twist to it.

[Toddzilla]

Looks like AEW is getting a Tuesday night slot somewhere on the Turner networks, likely after Smackdown moves to Fridays on Fox.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Looks like AEW is getting a Tuesday night slot somewhere on the Turner networks, likely after Smackdown moves to Fridays on Fox.

Which - with the impending reorganization of Turner properties after the merger - basically becomes an HBO network.

edit to add: relevant summary from a recent AJC piece on the shakeup

Under the new AT&T model, Robert Greenblatt, former chairman of NBC Entertainment who has also run Showtime and Fox, will lead the Direct-to-Consumer business overseeing WarnerMedia Entertainment, which includes HBO and three Turner networks: TNT, TBS and truTV. He will also design a new streaming service.

Keep an eye on that last sentence too, watch that factor into any AEW deal.

[RainMaker]

So are you saying it would just be on their streaming service? I don't know all the Turner cable channels but the big ones listed to decent ratings that I doubt a 2nd tier promotion could come close to touching.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So are you saying it would just be on their streaming service? I don't know all the Turner cable channels but the big ones listed to decent ratings that I doubt a 2nd tier promotion could come close to touching.

No no, not what I meant.

I meant watch any AEW deal (still only rumored at this point) include a presence of some sort on the fledging streaming service. Whether that's BTE or a knock off/extension of BTE, or actual wrestling, or a wrestling talk show with AEW ties/characters, or whatever. It'll be the home for the "additional content".

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

No no, not what I meant.

I meant watch any AEW deal (still only rumored at this point) include a presence of some sort on the fledging streaming service. Whether that's BTE or a knock off/extension of BTE, or actual wrestling, or a wrestling talk show with AEW ties/characters, or whatever. It'll be the home for the "additional content".

Gotcha. That makes sense.

Any idea what channel they would be put on? TBS and TNT seem like pipe dreams with the ratings they pull. And even truTV seems to draw more than wrestling could ever hope.

Unless this is one of those 10pm type deals on a Saturday night.

[Toddzilla]

Turner owns Bleacher Report if I'm not mistaken, so there's a built-in outlet there as well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Gotcha. That makes sense.

Any idea what channel they would be put on? TBS and TNT seem like pipe dreams with the ratings they pull. And even truTV seems to draw more than wrestling could ever hope.

Unless this is one of those 10pm type deals on a Saturday night.

I get the sense that we can all forget just about everything we know about TBS or TNT once the reorganization is completed. (I actually expect one or both to be re-named/re-branded).

If it can do just half the rating Smackdown did last Tuesday (about 1m viewers 2+, about a 0.4 rtg A18-49) then it'll beat what TBS & TNT had on the same night AND be on par with the network's 7-day prime average.

I think being half of Smackdown would be doable in their eyes... IF they are what they think they are anyway.

[RainMaker]

[molson]

A million times better than Bray Wyatt blabbering about demons and darkness for 10 minutes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Bray Wyatt with a chainsaw ... what could POSSIBLY go wrong

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

A million times better than Bray Wyatt blabbering about demons and darkness for 10 minutes.

I liked his initial gimmick where he was kind of a Southern cult leader. Bit like the guy in Cape Fear. Then they turned it into some weird crap with demons and stuff.

Just seems like any good gimmick WWE turns into garbage by trying to make it appeal to the 70 year old man running the company. Plus over-saturating the audience with it. Bray was great in small doses, not having to give a 10 minute promo every week.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I liked his initial gimmick where he was kind of a Southern cult leader. Bit like the guy in Cape Fear. Then they turned it into some weird crap with demons and stuff.

Just seems like any good gimmick WWE turns into garbage by trying to make it appeal to the 70 year old man running the company. Plus over-saturating the audience with it. Bray was great in small doses, not having to give a 10 minute promo every week.

Another company just had a wrestler get stabbed in the throat and die ... DIE I said, in the middle of the ring. And that seemed to generally get praise from most the 12-15 people who saw it.

While I agree with your initial premise, I'm not sure we can really give Vince much crap for most of the Bray stuff if that gets a pass.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pretty sure that Hell just froze over.

This may be lost on some of you that aren't familiar with the geography of Georgia but ... Kenny Omega just showed up at an indy show in Canton fucking Georgia.

Sure, we knew Cody Rhodes was going to be there with Pharoh. Chris Jericho showing up isn't a huge shock - the building is the same one that hosted Fozzy a while back (Canton, GA is where guitarist Rich Ward lives).

But Kenny f'n Omega? In CANTON?

(Local heel beats local face, another local face makes the save, Jericho beats down faces, lights go out, Omega attacks Jericho for the save. Locals handle most of the business from there, Kenny does the closing mic spot)

I've struggled all night to come up with anything you could tell me that would come as a bigger shock to me.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Pretty sure that Hell just froze over.

This may be lost on some of you that aren't familiar with the geography of Georgia but ... Kenny Omega just showed up at an indy show in Canton fucking Georgia.

Sure, we knew Cody Rhodes was going to be there with Pharoh. Chris Jericho showing up isn't a huge shock - the building is the same one that hosted Fozzy a while back (Canton, GA is where guitarist Rich Ward lives).

But Kenny f'n Omega? In CANTON?

(Local heel beats local face, another local face makes the save, Jericho beats down faces, lights go out, Omega attacks Jericho for the save. Locals handle most of the business from there, Kenny does the closing mic spot)

I've struggled all night to come up with anything you could tell me that would come as a bigger shock to me.

..and AEW will continue its march towards recognition.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Pretty sure that Hell just froze over.

This may be lost on some of you that aren't familiar with the geography of Georgia but ... Kenny Omega just showed up at an indy show in Canton fucking Georgia.

Sure, we knew Cody Rhodes was going to be there with Pharoh. Chris Jericho showing up isn't a huge shock - the building is the same one that hosted Fozzy a while back (Canton, GA is where guitarist Rich Ward lives).

But Kenny f'n Omega? In CANTON?

(Local heel beats local face, another local face makes the save, Jericho beats down faces, lights go out, Omega attacks Jericho for the save. Locals handle most of the business from there, Kenny does the closing mic spot)

I've struggled all night to come up with anything you could tell me that would come as a bigger shock to me.

That's pretty cool. So was this not announced beforehand? Like he came out as a surprise? Because that's cool as hell to buy a ticket to a random show and have Kenny Omega come out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That's pretty cool. So was this not announced beforehand? Like he came out as a surprise? Because that's cool as hell to buy a ticket to a random show and have Kenny Omega come out.

Omega was a complete shocker.

Cody was promoted as "appearing" and because of the unusual relationships at the venue*, the appearance of Jericho was not a complete surprise. But Omega? The whole crowd - and most of the roster - pretty much lost their minds.

*okay, briefly: the promotion runs in what is basically a "biker church" building, a old converted grocery store that has "sancutary" space that can double for concerts & other events. The church & venue have close ties to Rich Ward (Stuck Mojo, Fozzy), which accounts for Fozzy doing a show there two years ago this very week as it happens.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Stray wrestling thought that I don't think I'd put much thought into before.

Does Sinclair's purchase of the (now former) Fox Sports Regional networks mean ROH is cable bound? That might certainly be better for them than what they've gotten out of the O&O stations so far, with sketchy a.f. timeslots in many markets.

I'm not sure it actually matters in the big picture frankly, the roster is still a damned mess but it could be an incremental improvement for them at least.

[RainMaker]

Jon, is the end of this video the show you were talking about?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yep, that's it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sigh Rest in peace.

Former WCW Wrestler Silver King Suffers Medical Issue & Dies In Ring

[molson]

Viewer discretion advised of course, but here's the end of the Silver King match.

Luchador Silver King muere en el ring - YouTube

It took them quite a while to notice that something was wrong.

[RainMaker]

Wow. AEW is getting a primetime slot on TNT.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The one detail that I don't think was previously in the strong rumor category specifically was that Bleacher Report becomes the official streaming partner, starting with the PPV in Vegas.

AEW, TNT Officially Announce TV Deal - Cultaholic

[JonInMiddleGA]

As a little AEW side note, with the signing of five refs in the past week, feels like pickings are pretty slim for everybody else (like ROH who now has to find someone to give Todd some relief I'd think)

[albionmoonlight]

TMZ reporting that Ric Flair has been hospitalized after a "medical emergency."

[albionmoonlight]

Flair is like David Bowie inasmuch as he always struck me as way too interesting for something as mundane as death to apply to him.

Here's hoping that he just ate some bad sushi and will be back before we know it.

[Toddzilla]

It's also being reported that this was a "planned procedure"

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

It's also being reported that this was a "planned procedure"

TMZ jumping the gun and/or exaggerating would not be out of the realm of possibility, to say the least.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ex-WWE Superstar Ashley Massaro Dead at 39 | TMZ.com

[JonInMiddleGA]

Now working through catching up on BoSJ Night 4 (overnight Wed/Thur am show).

Similar to 2018, BoSJ feels a little flat to me compared to its extensive history but a few takeaways for me so far (about halfway through night 4).

-- Sho & Yo both getting that singles push love

-- The more I see of certain guys the more their flaws become apparent to me. Dragon Lee, Bandido (similar, tho lesser, than my reaction to Pentagon & Fenix elsewhere)

-- the opposite side of the coin for that are Ishimori and Takagi, both of whom I find growing on me as performers I can count on to be pretty solid

-- ElP is a damned fine heel. Flipping off infants in the crowd is heel gold afaic.

-- Robbie Eagles is pretty damned solid himself. The description of "young veteran" seems about right, I like his thoughtful approach to a match. Thoughtful does not have to mean slow.

-- Caprice Coleman on night 1, as part of a three-man booth (with UK Chris as the clear #2) was painfully bad. I dunno if I can listen kind of bad. He's still far from a favorite of mine on commentary but the two-man version is considerably kinder to him.

-- Tiger Mask serves no good purpose in this tournament in 2019. Neither does Kanemaru. Nor really does Taka.

-- Not sure about the future of Douki but at least they've made an abrupt sub a little interesting as a storyline, if not necessarily one that feels like it has legs.

-- Jonathan Gresham has been kind of disappointing to me, his post-match presser kind of suggested that even he knew he wasn't very good in his second outing. He looked blown up early and has done the opposite of helping himself so far.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oh, one more thing: Eagles & ElP need Bullet Club about like I need a tutu.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ex-WWE Superstar Ashley Massaro Dead at 39 | TMZ.com

How do I not remember her at all?

[RainMaker]

El Phantasmo is terrific.

Does it feel like Scurll is mailing it in? Used to look forward to his matches but they just seem bland of late.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

El Phantasmo is terrific. Does it feel like Scurll is mailing it in? Used to look forward to his matches but they just seem bland of late.

I thought he looked okay against Gresham and Ishimori - not special, just okay - but I'm not sure that BoSJ this year isn't more about introducing / establishing Villain Enterprises to Japan than getting great matches. (see tag match work from Brody & how it got put over despite never tagging in). I have to figure we get PCO around/for Dominion.

Plus, there seems to be some growing thought that Scurll's future isn't as set in stone as we all thought. That he might not end up in AEW when his ROH contract expires. That would make establishing VE even more important for his future.