Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Big 12 commish's dire warning about pending change - Yahoo Sports

[tarcone]

Bowlsby is overrated. Terrible AD at Iowa. I take anything he says with a grain of salt.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Bowlsby is overrated. Terrible AD at Iowa. I take anything he says with a grain of salt.

Whatever issues he had at Iowa are trumped by the success he had at Stanford.

[cartman]

Comcast is now the lone nationwide holdout on the Longhorn Network.

http://www.texassports.com/news/2014...223140536.aspx

[cuervo72]

"As we begin 2015, the addition of DIRECTV will allow even more Longhorns fans access to Men's and Women's Basketball as they start Big 12 Conference play, as well as our spring sports," said Steve Patterson, Texas Men's Athletics Director.

You know, for me, a northerner living in Maryland...

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by cartman

Comcast is now the lone nationwide holdout on the Longhorn Network.

http://www.texassports.com/news/2014...223140536.aspx

Comcast will get it too when their ESPN contract is up for renewal. It seems as though ESPN has pushed through LHN and WatchESPN with each contract renewal. Is Texas receiving any more than the ESPN guaranteed cash they were promised at the beginning of the deal? I.e., other than the extra exposure, is there a monetary benefit to UT with these deals?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Comcast will get it too when their ESPN contract is up for renewal. It seems as though ESPN has pushed through LHN and WatchESPN with each contract renewal. Is Texas receiving any more than the ESPN guaranteed cash they were promised at the beginning of the deal? I.e., other than the extra exposure, is there a monetary benefit to UT with these deals?

It isn't going to be until the latter stages of the contract that UT would be likely to get more money. The terms of the deal were that once ESPN recouped their initial investment dollars, UT would get 70% of the amount above that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Took some time to read R. Bowen Loftin's book about the SEC/B12 realignment situation. Great read if you're interested in what occurred behind the scenes. Knew that Texas was looking to create a Pac-16, but had no idea how far along the process they had gone, to the point that I'm shocked that they didn't manage to pull it off. Makes it pretty clear why the other B12 teams bolted when they had the chance.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good read about why the B10 and SEC Networks have been so much more successful than other conference/team networks.

SEC Network's success creating gap from rest of Power Five - College Football - SI.com

[tarcone]

The stupid B1G network put the baseball playoffs on their BTN2go app and aired a bunch of junk on their TV station. Not happy with the money grab.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Hard to believe it's been five years since the dominoes started to fall.

Conference realignment’s biggest winners and losers | Great American Sports Network

OU not pleased with current conference setup.

Boren: Big 12 'should strive for' 12-team league | News OK

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More speculation about OU's displeasure with the Big 12. It's going to be interesting to see how the powers that be try to keep OU happy. The Longhorn Network is obviously a debacle, but it's money that UT likely doesn't want to give up. OU wants two more teams, but UT doesn't want that either. Something's got to give.

Oklahoma to the SEC? Yes, please | AL.com

[MacroGuru]

The noise on our side is the offer was made and accepted for us to join as football only.

I only take it as far as I can throw it, which isn't far.

[duckman]

OU isn't going to the SEC. Boren would much rather go to someplace like the PAC-12 or Big Ten because of the academic research prestige that member schools possess. Plus, I think it's just saber rattling to get the conference to expand to 12-14 teams and morph the LHN to the B12N.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by duckman

OU isn't going to the SEC. Boren would much rather go to someplace like the PAC-12 or Big Ten because of the academic research prestige that member schools possess. Plus, I think it's just saber rattling to get the conference to expand to 12-14 teams and morph the LHN to the B12N.

So, Cinci/BYU?

[vex]

I doubt that OU will go to the SEC, but *fingers crossed*. Here's to getting out of this hellhole.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by vex

I doubt that OU will go to the SEC, but *fingers crossed*. Here's to getting out of this hellhole.

Here's the sad part. When OU bolts(which they will at some point), UT will bolt too and leave the mess they made for the remaining members. Honestly, I think OU is at least looking out for the other members before they leave, hoping they can fill the ranks with something so the conference just doesn't outright collapse.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

LOL. One would think this was an Onion article, but............

Bill Snyder on Big 12 expansion targets: 'Let's bring Nebraska back' - CBSSports.com

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

To the shock of no one, new information has coming out showing that five B12 teams looked to jump to the Big Ten before Mizzou ever even considered leaving the conference. I think Bill Self and his AD can pocket the preaching about 'Mizzou broke up the B12, so we refuse to play them' given that they look like hypocrites now that they looked to leave before Mizzou ever considered leaving the conference.

Report: That time five Big 12 schools tried to join the Big Ten | CSN Chicago

[digamma]

I thought it was a done deal that Mizzou joined the Big Ten.

[cartman]

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who heard from an anonymous source that five years ago a few teams though about switching conferences. I guess it's pretty serious.

[dawgfan]

You know, before a certain poster came around on this forum I really liked Mizzou. Particularly after Gary Pinkel became head coach. Now? I root for them to lose every game.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

You know, before a certain poster came around on this forum I really liked Mizzou. Particularly after Gary Pinkel became head coach. Now? I root for them to lose every game.

I feel the same way about the Royals. A team I used to root for in the 80's and 90's.

[duckman]

OU President David Boren is rocking the boat after the vote to allow a championship game for the Big XII. He took a shot at Texas and is demanding that the conference to expand to 12 teams to host a championship game and he wants the LHN to convert to a conference network. Oh, and apparently there's an open invitation to join the Big Ten.

Wait. So could Oklahoma really eventually join the Big Ten? - Land-Grant Holy Land

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by duckman

OU President David Boren is rocking the boat after the vote to allow a championship game for the Big XII. He took a shot at Texas and is demanding that the conference to expand to 12 teams to host a championship game and he wants the LHN to convert to a conference network. Oh, and apparently there's an open invitation to join the Big Ten.

Wait. So could Oklahoma really eventually join the Big Ten? - Land-Grant Holy Land

Gosh. No one could have seen this coming.........

[Noop]

Originally Posted by duckman

OU President David Boren is rocking the boat after the vote to allow a championship game for the Big XII. He took a shot at Texas and is demanding that the conference to expand to 12 teams to host a championship game and he wants the LHN to convert to a conference network. Oh, and apparently there's an open invitation to join the Big Ten.

Wait. So could Oklahoma really eventually join the Big Ten? - Land-Grant Holy Land

I hope OU goes to the Big 10. Then that means Texas and Notre Dame will likely join the ACC.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Noop

I hope OU goes to the Big 10. Then that means Texas and Notre Dame will likely join the ACC.

It's hard to explain how terrible it is to be in a conference with Texas until you experience it yourself. It's not their fans at all or their teams just the arrogance of the program and stubbornness of the program. If you don't believe a Missouri fan ask a Colorado fan or a Nebraska fan or an Arkansas fan or a Texas a&m fan or an Oklahoma fan... Of course all of us have that one friend who thinks every ex girlfriend that's left him is nuts. Texas in a nutshell.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Noop

I hope OU goes to the Big 10. Then that means Texas and Notre Dame will likely join the ACC.

OU isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Boren is rocking the boat because they want the money that would come along with a conference championship game and a conference network.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by panerd

It's hard to explain how terrible it is to be in a conference with Texas until you experience it yourself. It's not their fans at all or their teams just the arrogance of the program and stubbornness of the program. If you don't believe a Missouri fan ask a Colorado fan or a Nebraska fan or an Arkansas fan or a Texas a&m fan or an Oklahoma fan... Of course all of us have that one friend who thinks every ex girlfriend that's left him is nuts. Texas in a nutshell.

ACC needs a lot of help. They make no money and are at risk of being poached.

[digamma]

Huh?

[CU Tiger]

Plus the grant of rights deal makes poaching almost impossible.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Noop

ACC needs a lot of help. They make no money and are at risk of being poached.

The Big 12 is MUCH more likely to be the one that gets split up. It's right in the middle and easily pieced out into the other four conferences.

[BishopMVP]

Classic Globe hatchet job on Boston College, and the national laughingstock part is much more due to some bad hires than the move to the ACC, but it is an opening to look at some of the missteps administrators make with conference re-alignment.

From BC's side, having a top 5 Clemson or FSU football team come once a year does generate excitement, but most fans do not care about playing a UVa or a Wake Forest. Likewise in basketball with UNC/Duke generating some buzz in the media or around town/the alumnae base/current students.
The increase in TV money might still make it a good short term thing strictly from a fiscal perspective, but long term it will only hurt them.

From the ACC's side, they looked at market size and assumed they'd capture the same share that old ACC basketball or current SEC football games do in their region, which fundamentally doesn't understand the dynamics at play. A hypothetical scenario where #5 Duke, #8 UNC, #22 NC State headline the ACC standings or tournament naturally generates more regional discussion and brings in more casual fans than #3 Miami, #6 Louisville, #8 Syracuse does.

Boston (and New York) are pro sports towns, but I really wonder how much that dial would be tilted if some version of the old Eastern 8 had been playing for the last 20 years with like BC, UConn, UMass, Syracuse, Rutgers, Providence, Pitt, West Virginia, Temple, Georgetown, Villanova, maybe even a UNH/URI/Northeastern involved. As much as it might have theoretically limited any individual program's ceiling, and certainly would have impossible in real-time due to football, I think it's a no brainer that being in a conference with many of those schools would have been beneficial for every individual one over their current situation, preferred by every fan base over their current one, and led to more regional excitement and water cooler talk. Too bad there wasn't a Dave Gavitt in the Eastern 8's office.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The Big 12 is MUCH more likely to be the one that gets split up. It's right in the middle and easily pieced out into the other four conferences.

Unless Bill Simmons Presidential Sports Czar idea comes to fruition and somebody does this in a way that makes sense nationally, we all know what it comes down to. FSU, Clemson, Duke/UNC, Oklahoma and most importantly Texas have all the power there. They'll do what's best for them, whether it's under an ACC banner, Big XII banner, creating something new, or splitting off and making sure they get the last homes in the SEC/B1G/PAC-10. Missouri did a great job jumping early and ensuring they have a seat at the table going forward and not leaving themselves at the mercy of Texas's choice, but the Big XII will never be split up until the moment Texas decides to leave.

[britrock88]

I've wondered about BC's long-term prospects in the ACC, too. Any chance they might deemphasize football and hop in the reconstituted Big East? Seems like a good fit, though I'm sure there's a chasm separating the two leagues' TV revenue.

(Admittedly, this is mostly a thought experiment that is but a part of the XII grabbing Cinci and BYU, and the ACC deciding the time is right to bring in UConn.)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by britrock88

I've wondered about BC's long-term prospects in the ACC, too. Any chance they might deemphasize football and hop in the reconstituted Big East? Seems like a good fit, though I'm sure there's a chasm separating the two leagues' TV revenue.

(Admittedly, this is mostly a thought experiment that is but a part of the XII grabbing Cinci and BYU, and the ACC deciding the time is right to bring in UConn.)

Even in a hypothetical where revenue was similar, BC will never drop down/eliminate football. The magical Doug Flutie run is the base for their place in the national consciousness - without that they're Holy Cross with slightly worse academics and a better location.

And like you said, that revenue gap is absurdly large. Being the worst team in a P5 football conference is worth much more than being a great non-P5 basketball team like Gonzaga.

[tarcone]

A thread popped up over at Hawkeyenation about the B1G taking in 2 more teams.
Nothing was factual, just speculation. But here are the names being tossed around: Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgi Tech and, of course, Notre Dame.

By the way, Notre Dame hockey just joined the B1G.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

A thread popped up over at Hawkeyenation about the B1G taking in 2 more teams.
Nothing was factual, just speculation. But here are the names being tossed around: Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgi Tech and, of course, Notre Dame.

By the way, Notre Dame hockey just joined the B1G.

There's no way they take Texas. Just doesn't make any sense. Kansas, Virginia and Notre Dame make far more sense out of that list.

It's really just a matter of waiting for Texas to do something stupid or the rest of the B12 getting tired of their antics. As soon as one of those things happen, the B12 is gone. B10, SEC, and P12 will all fill to 16 teams and the rest will fall into place. No telling when it will happen, but it will happen. Immediately afterwards, Texas will point the finger that it was everyone else that broke up the conference.

[cartman]

That poor, poor chicken..........

[britrock88]

I'd bet on it being UNC and one of GT or UVA. I have tormented my college buddies with this idea.

[EDIT: "bet on it" meaning "most likely to happen... if this were actually a thing that would happen, which it isn't."]

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by tarcone

A thread popped up over at Hawkeyenation about the B1G taking in 2 more teams.
Nothing was factual, just speculation. But here are the names being tossed around: Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgi Tech and, of course, Notre Dame.

By the way, Notre Dame hockey just joined the B1G.

I don't see any way that domino falls on its own. The B1G won't expand to a 16-team group that excludes Notre Dame and Texas, and both those schools are extremely happy in their current situation. I think the ND fans would be in favor of B1G membership and more "traditional" opponents, but the administration uses the football team as a tool to increase their national appeal and broaden their applicant base. They think (correctly) that they're already known everywhere in the midwest and northeast, those are demographically static or shrinking, so they've been making a big push to be more known in the Southeast and Texas, where ND is less known and the population is growing faster. (I haven't seen the idea of broad long term regional growth trends play this big a role in where a team plays since FOF2 when you could go through a 100+ year career!) Playing basketball in the ACC and one football game a year in Texas let's them hit those areas. Texas is still raking in money hand over fist despite a terrible football team, will always have a PAC-12 offer if the conferences are going to 16, and kind of loves the power they wield in the Big 12. If other events force their hand, I could see any permutation happening, but I think all 3 entities are quite content where they are.

ND/Hockey East was just a terrible fit from the start, possibly driven by another sport-specific national TV deal, and every fanbase except maybe BC's is ecstatic they're leaving. I don't follow quite as closely as I did when I was at UMass (and we weren't a joke - fingers crossed the new AD nails this hire), but it always was a regional league. Orono is a hike, but every school was in New England. (And the B1G cracked the door by changing their policy on associate {one sport} member when they admitted Johns Hopkins in lacrosse.)

Speaking of that, the Hockey East replacement talk has an interesting rumor. Quinnipiac is thought to be the obvious replacement (HE is better than the ECAC, QU has poured a ton of money for a university their size into hockey, is now a top 5 team), but the QU President allegedly values being in a league with the Ivy's more than the increase in revenue and publicity a move to HE would bring. Face value, that's dumb, but if he can use hockey to pull QU into the Patriot League?

PS - MBBF, I get that you hate Texas (and you're not entirely wrong about how they act), but I know you don't think that it makes more sense for the Big Ten to add a state with 3 million people and the #31 and #69 media market's over one with 30 million and the #5, #10, #37 and #41.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

MBBF, I get that you hate Texas (and you're not entirely wrong about how they act), but I know you don't think that it makes more sense for the Big Ten to add a state with 3 million people and the #31 and #69 media market's over one with 30 million and the #5, #10, #37 and #41.

I don't disagree with the simple media equation, but there's far more than that to be concerned about. If it was all peaches and cream (and money/media market) to be in a conference with them, we wouldn't be seeing every conference they enter collapsing. SW Conference implosion was due to Texas. B12 will eventually implode due to their ego and greed as well (most would say it's already partially collapsed). They're like a dance partner at a masquerade ball. They're appealing until they take their mask off. After that, you're looking for another partner as quickly as possible.

There's plenty of other partners available. Don't make the same mistakes that other conferences have made.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I don't see any way that domino falls on its own. The B1G won't expand to a 16-team group that excludes Notre Dame and Texas, and both those schools are extremely happy in their current situation. I think the ND fans would be in favor of B1G membership and more "traditional" opponents, but the administration uses the football team as a tool to increase their national appeal and broaden their applicant base. They think (correctly) that they're already known everywhere in the midwest and northeast, those are demographically static or shrinking, so they've been making a big push to be more known in the Southeast and Texas, where ND is less known and the population is growing faster. (I haven't seen the idea of broad long term regional growth trends play this big a role in where a team plays since FOF2 when you could go through a 100+ year career!) Playing basketball in the ACC and one football game a year in Texas let's them hit those areas. Texas is still raking in money hand over fist despite a terrible football team, will always have a PAC-12 offer if the conferences are going to 16, and kind of loves the power they wield in the Big 12. If other events force their hand, I could see any permutation happening, but I think all 3 entities are quite content where they are.

ND/Hockey East was just a terrible fit from the start, possibly driven by another sport-specific national TV deal, and every fanbase except maybe BC's is ecstatic they're leaving. I don't follow quite as closely as I did when I was at UMass (and we weren't a joke - fingers crossed the new AD nails this hire), but it always was a regional league. Orono is a hike, but every school was in New England. (And the B1G cracked the door by changing their policy on associate {one sport} member when they admitted Johns Hopkins in lacrosse.)

Speaking of that, the Hockey East replacement talk has an interesting rumor. Quinnipiac is thought to be the obvious replacement (HE is better than the ECAC, QU has poured a ton of money for a university their size into hockey, is now a top 5 team), but the QU President allegedly values being in a league with the Ivy's more than the increase in revenue and publicity a move to HE would bring. Face value, that's dumb, but if he can use hockey to pull QU into the Patriot League?

PS - MBBF, I get that you hate Texas (and you're not entirely wrong about how they act), but I know you don't think that it makes more sense for the Big Ten to add a state with 3 million people and the #31 and #69 media market's over one with 30 million and the #5, #10, #37 and #41.

I think UNC would move the needle enough to get the Big 10 to expand. The key would be finding a 2nd team to pair with them. UVA would be a great fit, but I'm not sure how appealing they are.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I don't disagree with the simple media equation, but there's far more than that to be concerned about. If it was all peaches and cream (and money/media market) to be in a conference with them, we wouldn't be seeing every conference they enter collapsing. SW Conference implosion was due to Texas. B12 will eventually implode due to their ego and greed as well (most would say it's already partially collapsed). They're like a dance partner at a masquerade ball. They're appealing until they take their mask off. After that, you're looking for another partner as quickly as possible.

There's plenty of other partners available. Don't make the same mistakes that other conferences have made.

+1. As I said earlier in thread Cartman can take this as MBBF and Mizzou "envy" and he is likely right as well but it still doesn't explain Arkansas and basically the entire SWC, Colorado, Nebraska, A&M...

[tarcone]

Rumors have the B1G and Texas in discussions.

[CU Tiger]

UNC, UVA, GT and ND are non starters. Take a look at the grant of rights deal for the ACC.

Any school leaving the ACC has to pay back all TV revenues from the time the new deal was signed (2 years) and forfeit their TV rights for 10 years in their new home.

Now if the new home was better for UNC Swofford would probably allow them out without recourse...only FSU and Clemson refused to sign the GOR unless it was explicitly stated that a commissioner didn't have that power and that the only allowable exclusion was a unanimous vote by all other league members.

[CU Tiger]

also ND's deal with the ACC says if they ever join a conference in football it will be the ACC for a minimum of a 5 year run.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

UNC, UVA, GT and ND are non starters. Take a look at the grant of rights deal for the ACC.

Any school leaving the ACC has to pay back all TV revenues from the time the new deal was signed (2 years) and forfeit their TV rights for 10 years in their new home.

Now if the new home was better for UNC Swofford would probably allow them out without recourse...only FSU and Clemson refused to sign the GOR unless it was explicitly stated that a commissioner didn't have that power and that the only allowable exclusion was a unanimous vote by all other league members.

The Big 12 has a GoR as well, but it doesn't put an end to the speculation. I honestly think expansion is on hold outside of the Big 12 deciding to add 2 teams which itself is unlikely if the rumors of Texas being willing to come to the table about transitioning the Longhorn network to a Big 12 network are true.

[Logan]

I'll keep going with my evergreen prediction of "we're done with expansion, until these schools eventually break from the NCAA".

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

SW Conference implosion was due to Texas.

That feels ... incomplete.

The SWC imploded because the SEC left the CFA to cut its own TV deal. Once that happened the CFA consortium was heavily devauled. And THAT led to Texas and several others looking to create a more attractive package with the move.

It wasn't like Texas just randomly decided to take flight or something. Sure, they looked for the $$ but that was already set in motion by other events.

[digamma]

All true, plus you had the backdrop of pretty much everyone in the SWC being in serious hot water with the NCAA, causing the conference to really decline in the second half of the 80s.