WW - The Princess Bride (Game Over - Wolves Win)

[Narcizo]

Interesting(ish) question about the wheelbarrow. Do we think the wolves all went after it to try and increase their chances of getting at least one item (the least suspicious one at that)? We've got ntn, Bug and Autumn on the wheelbarrow along with Pass.

[CrimsonFox]

I get it now about items. All are in the game.I was thinking yesterday that only one item is in the game. But it was random who got each item?

[CrimsonFox]

ohi get it now. All the items are in the game. I was thinking that only one of them was. So the two items were given at random and the cloak was given to someone by bhlloy? Or was he even alive to GIVE it to someone night two?

And are you SURE people can pass items to others?

[Danny]

I think there is a good chance of that narc

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Danny

I'd like to see the iocane winner reveal. We have a by enough trust list that the threat of a night kill is no longer a reason to keep quiet

I agree - can't see the wolves killing someone just to get the powder. I think Chief, Jackal and I have said we didn't get it. I guess you didn't either Danny leaving JAG, Telle and, possibly, Packer who could have received it. If Packer got it then it could be anywhere.

[CrimsonFox]

Mr fuck you man is also on the wb list

[CrimsonFox]

I like that theory a lot narc.

[Narcizo]

Or Jackal is lying about not getting it, of course.

[Danny]

I really don't think jackal is a wolf

[CrimsonFox]

Jackal did a lot of quoting and acting silly. I like that. When I do that everyone thinks I'm guilty. I think Jackal is mainly catching heat for that.

[CrimsonFox]

ignore my item questions. I found the answers.

[CrimsonFox]

I see nothing about the items existing if the players holding them die.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I like that theory a lot narc.

I don't think all of them are wolves. If they were I think they would all vote for each other under those circumstances. I know that's what I would be pushing. I don't think Autumn would try to save them by voting the only villager.

Come to think of it I'm remembering why I was kind of trusting Autumn - I think there's a fair few small things that don't add up to much on their own but together sort of make me think he's ok.

I'm thinking NTN and Telle are my prime candidates at the moment. Both have been dogmatically sticking to lines of reasoning that are ok on day one but which don't really hold up when there's a lot more stuff to consider. Bug just seems too over the top to be a wolf. Don't remember if he's been a wolf in a game recently and how he's acted in that case.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I see nothing about the items existing if the players holding them die.

I asked a question about that - Eagle says that it goes to a random player.

[CrimsonFox]

Bug as I recall acts weird always. Is very um...upfront, sometimes passionate. Sometimes contrary. Doesn't go with the crowd. And yes says weird shit that doesn't make sense. And this is typical villager of him.

[CrimsonFox]

unvote ntn
vote telle

let's put them both on the board and watch em cook. I like telle as having the powder.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Danny

I'd like to see the iocane winner reveal. We have a by enough trust list that the threat of a night kill is no longer a reason to keep quiet

Alright, I'm caught up reading from last night. I buy the explanation between Narc and Danny otherwise the real Westley wouldve come out yesterday, aside from it explaining why Narcizo bizarrely wouldnt reveal the scan result.

I agree re: iocane. Sadly I did not win the iocane powder.

Will be around at lunchtime to contribute something more useful.

[Narcizo]

So, by my calculations, that leaves Telle holding the powder, Packer having it and losing it (if it went to a villager then they should speak up) or someone lying.

[Autumn]

To answer the questions about my vote move last night: I think I was very uprfront that I suspected at least one of NTN, Chief, Jackal and Mr Bug to be wolves. I had no idea who to really pick out of that bunch so I went with NTN because I had to leave yesterday afternoon.

Coming back and looking at the vote lists, Chief and Jackal were both voting with me, with Mr. Bug not voting yet, and then later Mr. Bug also voted NTN. What would you do if three of our four suspects joined you in voting for one of your four suspects? I figured I'd picked wrong.

I went with Chief because I wanted to make those same guys pick between Chief and Bug, as I thought it might be illustrative to find out which of these three they went for.

Hopefully that explains my reasoning.

[Autumn]

I don't have the iocane, fwiw. I guess obviously, since I selected wheelbarrow.

I think the best avenue today may be to go back to NTN. He's just about disappeared, which could be a wolf just hoping to lay quiet and let people talk themselves into mistakes. Since we know we don't have a scan of our leading vote guy from yesterday, lynching him today seems the best measure.

[Autumn]

Danny can you describe why you trust Jackal? If I can eliminate him from my list and concentrate on NTN and Bug that would be helpful.

[Lathum]

Want to get an early vote in just in case work gets busy. I can buy the NTN/ Autumn scenerios and think it helps us to keep it close.

Vote autumn

[EagleFan]

Game still on. Will check in throughout the day.

[Narcizo]

Day One

I think the only read you get from all-villager day ones is that villagers tend to move their votes more than wolves. Of course circumstances means that villagers can't move their votes and a savvy wolf will move their vote as well - particularly if their current vote can be interpreted as a throwaway. Don't think there's much else to say about anyone else one way or the other. You can say that NTN helped cement a three-horse villager race but I don't see that he had much choice in the position he was voting.
(weak) + Jackal

[Narcizo]

Day Two

MrBug has votes from two known villagers, although Chief was talking about moving his vote. NTN and Telle are both on a known villager, while ntn has two votes from presumed villager-friendlies. Bug and mauboy are both on Jackal, while Autumn has a theory that is sound but (possibly) picks the wrong person from the group of mid-day voters. Meanwhile Pass looks to be lining up first Crimson, then late-Bhlloy voters before finally settling on Packer. I would really have liked to see where his vote went if the Packer vote got no traction. Shame about that. Pass' actions make me happier about Crimson (who is cleared anyway, really) and Jackal and JAG, particular Jackal who I expect Pass would have moved his vote to if no-one had followed onto Packer. Autumn has his moved vote from Bug to Telle. Finding out Bug and Telle's allegiance would help clear up Autumn's position. Telle's vote on Chief makes me a bit dubious and her explanation for it just seems like trying to find an excuse. Then again so does NTN's.

(weak) + JAG, Jackal
- Telle, NTN, MrBug (by dint of being voted by two known villagers)

[Narcizo]

Day Three

My problem with Telle and NTN both being wolves is that they both vote early on the same candidate, and the same candidate as yesterday as well. Hard to tell if NTN was around around deadline. If he was you can wonder why he didn't move his vote to MrBug at the time Danny voted Bug. Seems like the obvious defensive move, but I guess he wasn't around at the time. Not a fan of JAG dodging the issue and voting MrBug who had 2 votes instead of voting Chief or NTN near deadline. Even if Bug is a wolf it wouldn't give me any extra trust for Jag. On the other hand voting NTN would create a tie so it was a hard spot to be in as a villager. Mauboy could be trying to save a wolf NTN with his vote. And Autumn has a vote switch that really doesn't look good for him. If NTN is a wolf then I've got a bit more trust for Lathum, but with it being Lathum not a great deal of trust.
+ don't have enough info
- NTN, Telle, Autumn, Jag

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Want to get an early vote in just in case work gets busy. I can buy the NTN/ Autumn scenerios and think it helps us to keep it close.

Vote autumn

Why vote Autumn instead of NTN in that case? Seems to be putting the cart ahead of the horse.

[Lathum]

because NTN has votes already on him

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Danny can you describe why you trust Jackal? If I can eliminate him from my list and concentrate on NTN and Bug that would be helpful.

Narc laid out it out nicely. Jackal has more +'s than anyone else at this point and my gut read on him also is that he is not a wolf. Additionally, when I made the joke about him and I being wolf buddies. the way he reacted seemed to distance himself from me in case I was a wolf. I definitely got the vibe that he did not know my allegiance there.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Jackal did a lot of quoting and acting silly. I like that. When I do that everyone thinks I'm guilty. I think Jackal is mainly catching heat for that.

That was just in about the span of a half hour, and it's EF's fault for goading me into rhyming, really.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Autumn

If not the wheelbarrow, my only thought is that since you protected yourself you couldn't scan. Or you're full of BS and a wolf ;-)

I find it interesting that after I revealed and was looking for info help that Autumn posted this. He never mentioned that maybe it was a Vizzini scan (which it ended up being) and I just think a villager Autumn might have at least thrown that out as an option.

[The Jackal]

Doesn't mean I won't do it again if someone's starting a rhyme off

[Narcizo]

My gut reads of people are harder to organise. I'm not getting the sort of read on Jackal that I got last time I played and he was a wolf. Then again he might be developing hsi game. I think Bug has been taking onboard the "too much to be a wolf" comments and is going to stick with that no matter what he is now. Hard to get a read on mau and I don't want meta-considerations to interfere with things. I'm getting dodgy vibes from Telle and NTN and Lathum - although I think Lathum's probably the person I have the hardest time getting a good read on. I generally think Autumn is on the level.

In terms of getting info-gathering I think we get the most from NTN.

I think my trust list from least to most goes something like this. But you'll be pleased to hear that my paranoid side is back in full effect because even the most trusted on that list is only little above nuetral.

NTN
Telle
MrBug
Lathum
Mau
Jag
Autumn
Jackal

[The Jackal]

So, interesting. Vizzini being able to scan for Westley is one of the things that wasn't listed on the first page? I definitely don't remember that. So we're thinking Danny's failed scan was because Vizzini stole it?

[Danny]

My list is very similar Narc except Autumn is much higher on the distrust side

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Danny

maybe it was a Vizzini scan (which it ended up being) and I just think a villager Autumn might have at least thrown that out as an option.

Don't know about that - the rules didn't state that Vizzini could scan for Westley so there's no reason why he would offer that up.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

So, interesting. Vizzini being able to scan for Westley is one of the things that wasn't listed on the first page? I definitely don't remember that. So we're thinking Danny's failed scan was because Vizzini stole it?

It was a Vizzini scan, EF admitted this was a mistake and added the part about him being able to scan and steal Wesley's ability.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

because NTN has votes already on him

One vote.

[Danny]

BTW since the wolves used the wheelbarrow on narc which nullifies his vote, I am assuming I was the night kill target as they would have switched the two abilities most likely if they were going to kill narc.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Don't know about that - the rules didn't state that Vizzini could scan for Westley so there's no reason why he would offer that up.

It didn't occur to me that that was what happened until I saw that there was a mistake in the rules.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Danny

BTW since the wolves used the wheelbarrow on narc which nullifies his vote, I am assuming I was the night kill target as they would have switched the two abilities most likely if they were going to kill narc.

Not necessarily - I think they used the wheelbarrow on me to nullify my self-protection power, assuming that Fezzik had protected me the day before and couldn't do it yesterday. Academic at the moment though really.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Danny

I find it interesting that after I revealed and was looking for info help that Autumn posted this. He never mentioned that maybe it was a Vizzini scan (which it ended up being) and I just think a villager Autumn might have at least thrown that out as an option.

Do you mean that you got your ability stolen? Well, like you, I was reading the rules and didn't see any mention of that.

The theory I had was different, but I didn't want to reveal it in case JAG was a wolf and this was giving him an alibi. I thought perhaps he was Fezzik and when protecting himself and being attacked, the scan was blocked. It didn't occur to me that you could have your scan stolen, and not Since another theory was that JAG Was Vizzini, and had stolen Fezzik's ability and could use it to block himself from scans, I didn't want to give him an out.

[Danny]

Yes, but I double checked Vizzini and then even sent a PM to EF saying I don't see what it could have been except Vizzini, but that I wasn't listed. I still think a villager autumn likely at least brings it up as a possibility or double checks it.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Do you mean that you got your ability stolen? Well, like you, I was reading the rules and didn't see any mention of that.

The theory I had was different, but I didn't want to reveal it in case JAG was a wolf and this was giving him an alibi. I thought perhaps he was Fezzik and when protecting himself and being attacked, the scan was blocked. It didn't occur to me that you could have your scan stolen, and not Since another theory was that JAG Was Vizzini, and had stolen Fezzik's ability and could use it to block himself from scans, I didn't want to give him an out.

Yes, my ability was stolen by Vizzini. I wasn't listed, but that was a rules error.

I'll back off this reasoning as it's a reach and I can by your statement.

[Autumn]

Nice to see you think I'm so on the ball, Danny, but it just didn't occur to me as a possibility. Like others have said, it made movie sense that he could steal Inigo and Fezzik's ability, not Westley. No real reason to think otherwise.

It also sounded, the way you described it, like your ability got blocked, not that it had been stolen.

[The Jackal]

I haven't gotten a good read on Autumn this game. It's interesting to me that people are fairly polarized on their trust level for him. For today I like NTN and Telle as candidates.

VOTE NTN

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Nice to see you think I'm so on the ball, Danny, but it just didn't occur to me as a possibility. Like others have said, it made movie sense that he could steal Inigo and Fezzik's ability, not Westley. No real reason to think otherwise.

It also sounded, the way you described it, like your ability got blocked, not that it had been stolen.

It sounded that way to me as well, but later I found out exactly what happened, so it got cleared up.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I haven't gotten a good read on Autumn this game. It's interesting to me that people are fairly polarized on their trust level for him. For today I like NTN and Telle as candidates.

VOTE NTN

I am good with ntn and Telle as well.

[Autumn]

Vote early, vote often. I'm going to go with NTN. I don't see a compelling reason to vary from this. I think we lynch him, and that gives us the most information. Maybe if he gets lynched a second time he'll add some thoughts to the game!

vote ntndeacon

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I haven't gotten a good read on Autumn this game. It's interesting to me that people are fairly polarized on their trust level for him. For today I like NTN and Telle as candidates.

I don't think we're really polarised. My list is a bit of slodge from around Lathum down to Autumn and liable to change from hour to hour.