Werewolf XIII: The Italian Village

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You guys gotta admit the play against Blade was pretty brilliant

That it was, but I'm still surprised they fell for it. And quite frankly I'm surprised you believed I was mafia.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Thank you, thank you very much, but would you really have told me you were a werewolf if I asked you on day 1?

I didn't put myself in that situation.

[kingfc22]

Dubb was your role a bodyguard type too? If so how did you not save anyone, especially RA?

I chose RA and Digamma both nights they were killed, but they died because they were not attacked by the mafia.

[RPI-Fan]

I want to do this unconditionally:

Great game dubb, good win, congratulations.

[RPI-Fan]

I'm curious: Did anyone suspect me of being a wolf at ANY point prior to the final four, or so?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Just checking in as a villager.

~rpi-fan

Oh really? I did what I had to do to win. I was the lone villager against two mafia and a werewolf. You don't know untill you are in that situation. If I had set back I wouldn't have made it to the end. If you had died I would have lost. If Lathum had died I would have lost. I had to drive Pennywise out. It was a game and I played it to win, and in the end the villagers won and Lathum survived.

Also, I now hope Sack can see how the villagers can win, I gave my plan away way back then after all.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Dubb was your role a bodyguard type too? If so how did you not save anyone, especially RA?

I chose RA and Digamma both nights they were killed, but they died because they were not attacked by the mafia.

Because night before RA died, dubb93 protected RA out of a hunch, hence he could not protect RA the next night.

[RPI-Fan]

I also want to comment: I don't think the game was as stacked as people are claimining.

The Mafia, strictly from a head-counting standpoint, had a 15% chance, Wolves 15%, and Villagers 70%. So the Villagers had 4.5 times as good of a chance as either bad guy. Had this game been "normal", with maybe 5 mafia, the Villagers were at EVEN MORE of an advantage.

I know the bad guys had "extra" powers, but generally speaking, it wasn't as stacked as maybe it looked.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Dubb was your role a bodyguard type too? If so how did you not save anyone, especially RA?

I was just unlucky I guess. As for RA, I had protected him the night before his reveal randomly, and was stuck not being able to protect him the next of his reveal, it really sucked. Other than that, the night after the Lathum fooled us I didn't protect anyone b/c I didn't want to be in the RA situation again. Other than that I was just unlucky I guess.

[dubb93]

AND I TOLD YA I WOULD LOOK OUT FOR YA LATHUM!!! MAKE GOOD USE OF THAT WOLFSBANE, THAT WAS MY WHOLE SUPPLY!

[Neon_Chaos]

To make it clear, the Mafia and Werewolves' win conditions were to gain a 1:1 ratio with EVERYONE ELSE.

So the Mafia must get a 1:1 ratio with the combined numbers of Villagers and Werewolves. And vice versa.

I think it was a pretty balanced game that could have played out differently if the Mafia/Werewolves managed to kill each other early in the game.

And the reveal of the night kills was a flag I set if the Seer and Investigator are already dead.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Oh really? I did what I had to do to win. I was the lone villager against two mafia and a werewolf. You don't know untill you are in that situation. If I had set back I wouldn't have made it to the end. If you had died I would have lost. If Lathum had died I would have lost. I had to drive Pennywise out. It was a game and I played it to win, and in the end the villagers won and Lathum survived.

Also, I now hope Sack can see how the villagers can win, I gave my plan away way back then after all.

Well, I have to start the process of making myself feel more competent.

-I had pennywise & Barkeep pegged as Mafia by about the 3rd day.

I'm trying to see what I could have done differently in the end game:

I think it really all comes down to me, as Mr. W said, "thinking too hard" on the last night... at the VERY LEAST I should have tried to kill dubb (I never would have attacked Lathum... your post made it way too obvious you were UNPROTECTED, dubb). But I was just so worried he had some special power to counter-balance the wolves' role and numbers being secret.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

To make it clear, the Mafia and Werewolves' win conditions were to gain a 1:1 ratio with EVERYONE ELSE.

So the Mafia must get a 1:1 ratio with the combined numbers of Villagers and Werewolves. And vice versa.

I think it was a pretty balanced game that could have played out differently if the Mafia/Werewolves managed to kill each other early in the game.

And the reveal of the night kills was a flag I set if the Seer and Investigator are already dead.

Wow, my thinking was totally off then near the end.

I had cleared out my PM box, but was almost sure I had to gain a 1:1 ratio with the villagers. Glad you cleared that up, makes me feel a little better.

[Vince]

What a game. Congrats to dubb -- well played.

[Neon_Chaos]

Game ball goes to dubb93 for pulling a rabbit out of his ass and winning the damn game. Simply awesome.

Runner-up is Lathum, who almost single-handedly won it for the Mafia... until he killed pennywisesb.

RPI-Fan, great job of going under the radar for nearly the entire game.

The final three really played well, and deserve credit.

[dubb93]

So how many observers thought I was mafia and what did you guys think Pennywise was?

[RPI-Fan]

Alright, so when's the next game (that you don't need a Ph.D to play?)?

[Neon_Chaos]

Role List, and the PM's I sent you guys.

Mafia - You have come to this small Italian Village, looking to invade and take over the local populace. You can achieve it by reaching a 1-1 ratio with everyone else in the village. Each night the Mafia choose one person to kill.
SackAttack, you are the Mafia Lieutenant. If you are lynched, you may choose to take one person down with you to the grave.(you can kill someone if you are lynched.)

Werewolves - You have been living in seclusion from the world in this small Village. Now that the Mafia have arrived, you must see to it that this Village remains yours. The Werewolves may choose to kill one person each night. To win, you must get a 1:1 ratio with everyone else in the Village.
MrBug708, you are the Werewolf King. If you are lynched you may choose to kill another person with you and take him to the grave as well.

Sorceror - You are a Sorceror. You do not know who the werewolves are, nor do they know who you are. Each night you may choose to check if a person is the Seer. If viewed by any seer-type role, you will only be seen as a Villgager. You win if the Werewolves win (by gaining a 1-1 ratio with everyone else). You will still count as a Villager during the head-counting process.

Turncoat - You are a turncoat for the mafia. You do not know who the Mafia are, nor do they know who you are. You may not PM the Mafia. You may check each night to see if a person in the Investigator. You win if the Mafia win. When viewed by the Investigator, you will only come up as a Villager. You will still count as a Villager during head-counting between Mafia and Villagers.

Retired Officer - You are a retired policeman living your life out in the Village. Each night you may choose one person to protect from being killed by the Mafia. You may choose yourself, but cannot choose the same person two nights in a row.

Investigator - You are a local Investigator, hearing rumors of Mafia in the village. You may choose one person each night to view, to check if he is a member of the Mafia.

Herbalist - You are a local herbalist, whose specialty is Wolfsbane. Each night you may choose to sprinkle someone's door with Wolfsbane, to prevent the Werewolves from attacking that person. You may choose yourself, but may not choose the same person two nights in a row.

Seer - You are a Seer, with special powers, hearing rumors of Werewolves in the village. You have tried long and hard to find them, but have only found the power to do so now... you may choose one person each night to view, to check if he is a Werewolf.

Regional Magistrate - You are the Regional Magistrate, and are quite wealthy. You've gone on vacation in this small village. You may choose to change the target of a lynching for one day, and choose a new lynching target. This is a one-time power only.

Villager - You are... a Villager!

[saldana]

so did the villagers win, or did the mafia win...post 1 says the turncoat wins if the mafia wins....not trying to be difficult, just confused.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by saldana

so did the villagers win, or did the mafia win...post 1 says the turncoat wins if the mafia wins....not trying to be difficult, just confused.

Kindly read the final Vote Results post.
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/foru...&postcount=781

The Villagers won.

The Turncoat survived. Technically, he didn't win. But he did survive, and surviving equates to winning... somewhat. If it makes anyone feel better, Lathum gets his eyeballs ripped off his skull after the Mob finds him.

[digamma]

Nice work, dubb. I didn't think your play to get pennywise lynched was going to work. After I got killed the night before, I was trying to construct winning scenarios. You hit the one shot we had.

Great game, Neon.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Because night before RA died, dubb93 protected RA out of a hunch, hence he could not protect RA the next night.

Wow. Great move, as we almost tried to kill him (and I was kicking myself for not doing it the next day). Knowing that we wouldn't have been able to get him anyway reduces the second-guessing.

[dubb93]

And another little quirk in the game was SackAttacks posts lighting into me toward the deadline with just 4 people left.

I assume Neon told Sack to delete them and he did, but he also sent me a message that he recommend I delete the posts that dealt with Sackattack. I responded that the only person I didn't want to see them was Lathum and he had been lurking the whole time so there was no point, but that if by some miracle he kept his vote on Pennywise I had a plan to win it. He responded with "good luck" and I bet he had a good laugh over it at the time.

I thought for sure Lathum saw them and could have figured out that Sack wouldn't rip into me if I was mafia, but I guess I either covered it up well, or he didn't infact, see them.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by dubb93

So how many observers thought I was mafia and what did you guys think Pennywise was?

I thought your play was straight-up, initially, and was favorably impressed. My opinion further improved dramatically when Neon told me you were the wolf bodyguard, and I realized what you were trying to do. I gotta say, I was mostly rooting for the wolves, but I don't mind seeing the play you pulled off rewarded, even if you did initially target the wrong guy.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by dubb93

And another little quirk in the game was SackAttacks posts lighting into me toward the deadline with just 4 people left.

Wow, with the chance that had of blowing the endgame, that's not cool. Not cool at all.

I admit, I might have posted a bit more than I should have as a dead guy, but I tried to make sure the content was always neutral.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Kindly read the final Vote Results post.
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/foru...&postcount=781

The Villagers won.

The Turncoat survived. Technically, he didn't win. But he did survive, and surviving equates to winning... somewhat. If it makes anyone feel better, Lathum gets his eyeballs ripped off his skull after the Mob finds him.

cool, thanks, and lathum getting whacked does make me feel better...i wasnt trying to be a dick, i just was a bit confused because you said lathum won and said the villagers won.

btw, would the mafia be kind enough to tell me why i got whacked? i figure it was either because i made it so obvious i was only a villager and made an easy target, or i pissed people off by whining about the rules after night 1.

[digamma]

Oh, and for the record, I was pretty confident you were a villager the whole time, dubb. Just a hunch. I followed your votes to almost a T.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

I'm a little disappointed in this. I don't think made a flat-out lie in this game, yet dubb gets rewarded for his totally deceiptful play.

That sort of play is really the point of the game, and dubb pulled it off brilliantly. I don't think I ever would have expected to see the game where a successful endgame consisted of a villager convincing someone he was mafia, instead of vice versa.

The guys who scare me the most in these games are the ones that can pull of a convincing lie. Gotta say, dubb is going to be higher on my list of early kills in the future.

[dubb93]

Lathum won, end of story, he has a way of twisting the truth like no one in this game, except maybe myself. I'm sure he could find a way to blend in and hide from the mafia the rest of his life.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by saldana

cool, thanks, and lathum getting whacked does make me feel better...i wasnt trying to be a dick, i just was a bit confused because you said lathum won and said the villagers won.

btw, would the mafia be kind enough to tell me why i got whacked? i figure it was either because i made it so obvious i was only a villager and made an easy target, or i pissed people off by whining about the rules after night 1.

I'm not mafia, but as a wolf we were just thinking: Who can we get that we are SURE isn't a mafia (because mafia were probably doing the same, and would get the villagers' numbers down near the end).

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

I'm curious: Did anyone suspect me of being a wolf at ANY point prior to the final four, or so?

I know I didn't.

Great game Dubb.

[Neon_Chaos]

Alright, my highlights of the game... from the moderator stand-point.

#1 - The Werewolves killed the Sorceror on Night 1, that was amusing.
#2 - Lathum blindfolded everyone, managed to get Blade killed, reveal his role and not die. Great move.
#3 - The Mafia obviously trying to kill of the Werewolves, but can't, thanks to faulty information (the saldana kill)
#4 - The Seer's limited but crucial roles in the game
#5 - Everyone not believing that there could be 3 Werewolves in the game
#6 - dubb93 initially voting for RPI-Fan and claiming to be Mafia... I thought then that the game would be over. And then pennywisesb claiming that HE was Mafia, and I thought 'oh... this just became interesting'.
#7 - pennywisesb with his gajillion posts trying to convince Lathum that he was mafia
#8 - Lathum offing pennywisesb.
#9 - And of course, the miracle that dubb93 pulled off with EVERYONE ELSE'S ROLE being against him.
#9b - Oh, and the fact that Day 6 was all about convincing someone that he was Mafia. Talk about an instant reversal of roles! instead of trying to convince someone you're a good guy, you're trying to convince someone that you're a bad guy. heh.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

That sort of play is really the point of the game, and dubb pulled it off brilliantly. I don't think I ever would have expected to see the game where a successful endgame consisted of a villager convincing someone he was mafia, instead of vice versa.

The guys who scare me the most in these games are the ones that can pull of a convincing lie. Gotta say, dubb is going to be higher on my list of early kills in the future.

That post was a little more out of frustration than anything... but I do think there is something to be said for play like mine, with smart voting patterns, having a situation where I really should have won the game (if not for my own shortcomings). I think it may be just as hard to play the game flying low, though, as it is to pull off a big lie -- in fact, I thought of a half-dozen or so that I was SURE would be good plays, but just weren't worth the risk since nobody suspected me of anything.

[RPI-Fan]

So, NC: When's the next game?

[Mr. Wednesday]

At risk of giving away company secrets... my strategy as a wolf was to try to fly under the radar, looking like a villager, until developments later in the game. Unfortunately, my cover got blown by a lucky (I think) view by RA. The first night, we tried to pick a strong player to kill, but were unlucky in killing our unknown ally in the sorceror. The second night, we were starting to worry about killing off mafia, because with a numerical advantage over them they were actually to our benefit while there were more villagers (and their kill would be more likely to get another villager than one of us); we figured that the other two mafia players had probably voted for the mafioso that got lynched first (SackAttack, was it?), so we focused our votes outside that group.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

VILLAGERS WIN!

WOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan
I'm curious: Did anyone suspect me of being a wolf at ANY point prior to the final four, or so?

No, in the final four I figured you for mafia, but thankfully pennywise gave me a chance to change the vote and look convincing doing it.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

That post was a little more out of frustration than anything... but I do think there is something to be said for play like mine, with smart voting patterns, having a situation where I really should have won the game (if not for my own shortcomings). I think it may be just as hard to play the game flying low, though, as it is to pull off a big lie -- in fact, I thought of a half-dozen or so that I was SURE would be good plays, but just weren't worth the risk since nobody suspected me of anything.

The need for the big lie is dictated by circumstances. Dubb had reached a point where he needed to nail the mafioso in order for his protection ability to have a shot at blocking the winning kill, and he obviously judged that the best way to do that was to try to fool the turncoat into thinking that dubb (and not pennywise) was the mafia.

Sometimes the lie isn't needed... look at CW's win in Peregrine's WW game. Sometimes it is...

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by dubb93

No, in the final four I figured you for mafia, but thankfully pennywise gave me a chance to change the vote and look convincing doing it.

when you chose RPI-Fan, I thought you were a goner. then, pennywisesb outed his role. and then... the shit hit the fan.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

So, NC: When's the next game?

Probably a week or two from now. I need a break. lol. I'm playing LORD OF THE RINGS: BATTLE FOR MIDDLE EARTH

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I thought for sure Lathum saw them and could have figured out that Sack wouldn't rip into me if I was mafia.

Which isn't true. Given the things you posted, I would have ripped into you no matter your role.

But that's irrelevant now.

[Neon_Chaos]

It should be noted that things said in this game are not to be said or taken in a serious light, after all, the game is about psyching out your opponent and punking them out to the point that noone will believe them.

[Barkeep49]

Ok I will put in a pitch now for my WW game. Are the rules long? Yes, but honestly it playing it isn't that hard. If you like WW, I think you'll like this game.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Ok I will put in a pitch now for my WW game. Are the rules long? Yes, but honestly it playing it isn't that hard. If you like WW, I think you'll like this game.

threadjacker!

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

It should be noted that things said in this game are not to be said or taken in a serious light, after all, the game is about psyching out your opponent and punking them out to the point that noone will believe them.

Maybe so, but I have more respect for somebody who can play their game with convincing rhetoric than for somebody whose strategy consists of saying things like "Shut up and die already, wolf" and "are you fucking happy now?"

That's just brute intimidation, and requires no skill.

Just my two cents.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Maybe so, but I have more respect for somebody who can play their game with convincing rhetoric than for somebody whose strategy consists of saying things like "Shut up and die already, wolf" and "are you fucking happy now?"

That's just brute intimidation, and requires no skill.

Just my two cents.

I think a little intimidation goes a long way.

"THE PAIN TRAIN IS COMING! WHOO! WHOO!"

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I think a little intimidation goes a long way.

"THE PAIN TRAIN IS COMING! WHOO! WHOO!"

Whatever. I don't regret calling him on it.

I do regret doing it publicly.

I would have called dubb on it no matter what penny's role.

If it influenced the endgame, I apologize. It wasn't meant to, and even when posting it, I tried hard to keep it as neutral as I could, but looking back I do see where it was problematic. Which is why I feel like I should have just done it privately.

[SackAttack]

Oh!

And to answer the 'why henry?' question from the start of the game...I duked him then because I knew it would be the mafia's best chance to take him out while he had no protection, and thus deprive the villagers of the opportunity to find Barkeep and penny.

Had he not led the lynch mob against me, we probably would have let him live to cast suspicion upon him ("He's claiming a seer role, why isn't he dead?"), but it didn't work out that way.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

#1 - The Werewolves killed the Sorceror on Night 1, that was amusing.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

The first night, we tried to pick a strong player to kill, but were unlucky in killing our unknown ally in the sorceror.

That makes me feel a little better, I guess

I was really looking forward to playing this role -- I thought it would be very interesting having a role where everyone is out to get you, so to speak. Too bad I got munched real early. What I found irritating at first, and funny after a moment, was that when I logged on that night, I had a PM from Neon_Chaos about my view for the evening. So I was like "Ok, cool. I wasn't killed." I read the thread, and...well, my post summed it up nicely:

Originally Posted by Vince

Sweet.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Whatever. I don't regret calling him on it.

I do regret doing it publicly.

I would have called dubb on it no matter what penny's role.

If it influenced the endgame, I apologize. It wasn't meant to, and even when posting it, I tried hard to keep it as neutral as I could, but looking back I do see where it was problematic. Which is why I feel like I should have just done it privately.

But yeah, I had no problem you questioning his style of play. But I did have a problem doing it with about 30 minutes remaining before deadline, in the thread. Thanks for deleting the posts, man.