Yet another school shooting.

[BBT]

Dan Patrick hitting the airwaves this morning blaming violent video games and wanting to arm teachers because they are part of "our militia." Sigh...

[JPhillips]

And Ollie North blames Ritalin.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jct32

Seems more like a disturbed individual obsessed with violence than a Nazi.

Or simply WWII. Or the Axis Powers.

That particular "indicator" can't reasonably grade as anything more than incomplete based on photos & minor collecting alone.

I mean, hell, I know a lifelong baseball card collector who just killed (via starvation) over a dozen dogs. Pretty sure his card collection wasn't indicative of that eventual behavior.

[RainMaker]

Looks like a kid shot up his middle school today.

https://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-middle-school

[CrimsonFox]

yup in inbanana

[Edward64]

Not a school shooting but somewhat related.

I don't know if its my imagination but it seems there's been a couple other recent stories of civilians with weapons taking down a bad guy.

I don't really remember reading much about this happening before (first I remember was the Texas church incident).

I wonder if its the awareness of all these shootings & the ongoing debate that make some civilians more apt to use their weapons nowadays. Per the story below, the 2 guys went to their cars to retrieve their weapons so they purposely wanted to engage the bad guy.

Armed bystanders gun down Oklahoma City restaurant shooter - BBC News

Police have praised two armed bystanders after they shot and killed a gunman who opened fire on diners at a restaurant in the US state of Oklahoma.

Oklahoma City police said four victims were injured on Thursday before the duo confronted the shooter as he fled the scene and "fatally shot him".

The gunman shot three people. A fourth person broke his arm. All the victims are in good condition, say police.

Police named the deceased suspect as 28-year-old Alexander Tilghman.

Police Capt Bo Mathews told reporters that the armed civilians, Juan Carlos Nazario, 35, and Bryan Wittle, 39, "took the right measures to be able to put an end to a terrible, terrible incident".

Mr Nazario and Mr Wittle did not know each other, but both retrieved firearms from their vehicles to confront the shooter.

[digamma]

It happens, but the data shows i) that it is rare and ii) that more incidents are contained by individuals without firearms.

While these two can certainly be celebrated in this instance, I think there are several underlying issues. First, vigilante shooters typically put innocent bystanders in more danger either due to lack of training or adding to the confusion of the scene. Second, most people don't want to have to be vigilantes. Quite simply, we don't have to live this way.

[Edward64]

I personally think this is reasonable assuming its there continuous/refresher training required and some sort of coordination training with police response. Better than nothing in a worse case.

Alabama Allows Armed Principals In Schools | HuffPost

Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey (R) has enacted a controversial program aimed at permitting select school administrators in her state to become deputized, so they can use lethal force in active shooter situations.

The Alabama Sentry Program, which Ivey implemented via an executive memorandum on Thursday, permits select administrators in schools without police as resource officers to keep firearms on campus.

“We must provide a way for schools to protect their students in the upcoming school year,” Ivey said in a press release announcing the program.

The program, which comes amid a string of deadly school shootings, permits individuals designated as “sentries” to use “lethal force to defend the students, faculty, staff, and visitors.”

The measure does not force school districts to arm administrators and will not require them to carry guns. But it allows each school district to choose whether to arm administrators. It took effect immediately.

The measure is not being touted as a permanent solution. Larger districts may have the ability to hire school resource officers ― itself a controversial measure ― but many smaller schools can’t afford to. Ivey said her memorandum is a stopgap measure until legislatures can come up with a “concrete plan” to have a school resource officer on every campus.

[RainMaker]

Interesting story about the resource officer in Florida.

‘It was my job, and I didn’t find him’: Stoneman Douglas resource officer Scot Peterson remains haunted by massacre - The Washington Post

[RainMaker]

Parkland, Florida massacre: School guard Andrew Medina harassed victim Meadow Pollack, family says - CBS News

[Edward64]

Somewhat tongue-in-cheek article on the gun debate that we here, at FOFC, have experienced.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...gun-ncna886156

The debate’s results are now aggravatingly predictable: The boisterous neighbor shuts downs — or shouts downs — all arguments when the citified coworker demonstrates that they have little understanding of an impressively simple tool. (A clip isn’t a magazine, the “AR” in AR-15 isn’t an abbreviation for “assault rifle,” etc.)

The pedantic tactic, as perfectly described by firearm aficionado Adam Weinstein, is “gunsplaining.” For someone trying make a larger point about gun violence, gunsplaining can be infuriating but, for someone with a passing familiarity with guns, the audacity of a liberal trying to make a larger, sweeping point without knowing some of the basic concepts or having any hands-on appreciation can be equally so.

Pro-gun people ask why they should listen too hard about sensible gun reform — like fixing the abysmal background check system and criminal gun tracing, actually allowing meaningful research into gun violence — when not only are basic terms misused by gun reform advocates, but general facts about firearms are glossed over in favor of fear of the unfamiliar.
:
The issue of gun control and rights is complicated. Less complicated is just giving the actual shooting a shot. You may experience a funny, tingling sensation that its actually fun, and that’s perfectly normal! But shooting a gun also has the added benefit of giving you more of a leg to stand on the next time a gun debate inevitably comes up.
:
But it’s surprising how quickly someone learns what “semi-automatic” actually means when they fire off a few successive rounds of a 9mm; why some folks actually do feel safer when they have a loaded burglar alarm; or yes, why shooting can be a genuine “hobby” (if you can afford it).

[cuervo72]

That’s cool. We can butt out of those conversations when they exit discussions on climate and the female reproductive system.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

That’s cool. We can butt out of those conversations when they exit discussions on climate and the female reproductive system.

Oddly, at least two of those groups of comically gullible participants have a helluva lot of overlap.

[digamma]

The odd thing is that the most promising gun policy legislation, in terms of saving lives, doesn't touch actual guns at all. It is about access and who is allowed to purchase or obtain firearms. I'm not sure why I need to have fired a semi-automatic weapon to think a domestic abuser shouldn't have access to a gun, regardless of type.

[QuikSand]

#Annapolis is trending



Non-school though...still count?

[digamma]

Yes, unfortunately.

[QuikSand]

Yeah, there’s gonna be a “count” all right.

[QuikSand]

County police being advised to not self dispatch to the site. A mess here.

[Galaril]

Wonder if this is some wacko from the Trump cult who went to take out media folks:-( NYC police are dispatching officers to area media sites as a precaution.

[RainMaker]

Ok this is weird.

CBS News has learned alleged gunman damaged his fingertips so law enforcement cannot identify him. https://t.co/eWjaC4dGlq pic.twitter.com/6dMeurgxbc

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 28, 2018

[stevew]

5 dead. Sigh

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Wonder if this is some wacko from the Trump cult who went to take out media folks:-( NYC police are dispatching officers to area media sites as a precaution.

Like the congressional softball shooter?

[JPhillips]

When I used to live in the D.C. area I had reviews of my shows in that paper. God bless all the families and friends of the victims.

[PilotMan]

Enemy of the People takes a blow from the deliverer of truth!



If I've learned anything from trump, it's that we are to jump to immediate conclusions right away, and make the most obvious leaps in logic to get our point across. Never apologize for what you said in that moment, and stick to your talking point. Therefore---


Enemy of the People takes a blow from the deliverer of truth! A true American has spoken with his 2nd Amendment rights! God bless his soul!

[NobodyHere]

It's sad that political partisans are already making claims about the motives of the gunman in order to score a point for their side.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

It's sad that political partisans are already making claims about the motives of the gunman in order to score a point for their side.

Honestly, does it really matter any more who says what about anything? The entire message is co-oped before the facts come out anyway. One side or the other. It's total bs, and it's been fostered much more by the person living in the WH than anything else.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Honestly, does it really matter any more who says what about anything? The entire message is co-oped before the facts come out anyway. One side or the other. It's total bs, and it's been fostered much more by the person living in the WH than anything else.

This line of thinking is just as bad as the fake news crowd. In fact I would say even worse because you have shown yourself on this board as being intelligent and not sure a lot of the Trump crowd has any intelligence.

[PilotMan]

How so exactly? I'm the one always calling for patience and caution to wait for the facts to emerge before jumping to conclusions. It seems to me, that the news cycle can no longer wait for anything, and that either side needs to get their point out and across before any information is known. Look at the deep conspiracy theorists out there. They make their decisions, hear the fact, then decide that the facts are wrong and stick by their near sighted, conspiracies that are the only 'truth.'

trump is exactly the same way. Even today, he comes out and defends Russia in the face of massive information. He rails against things he can't see, despite having access to every bit of information and the most powerful weapons and military in the world. His goal has always been to dominate the news cycle, one way or the other. It doesn't matter what the truth is. The only thing that matters is that people are listening to what you're saying. If you can't win the battle for information because people won't listen to the truth, you're only left with fighting for the bits and pieces they will listen to.

Truth and science is more marginalized right now, in favor of feelings and instincts, than ever before. The current administration has done more to foster that than any previous one, but that doesn't mean that previous administrations haven't done it too, it just means this one has completely manipulated it more, for it's own gain, than any other. This is the truth.

[RainMaker]

Sounds like it might be an individual with a gripe against the paper. He sued them for defamation and lost.

Story seems to go:

- Suspect relentlessly harassed a woman he had went to high school with.
- She called the police and he was charged and plead guilty to harassment.
- Paper wrote a story on it
- He sued the paper and acted as his own attorney
- He lost, appealed, and lost again

It would be yet another shooter with a history against women.

[QuikSand]

Local buzz is: Guy w grudge

Colleagues and I chatting over dinner about reporters we know, and who might be dead. How fucking sick is that as an actual conversation?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Sounds like it might be an individual with a gripe against the paper. He sued them for defamation and lost.

Story seems to go:

- Suspect relentlessly harassed a woman he had went to high school with.
- She called the police and he was charged and plead guilty to harassment.
- Paper wrote a story on it
- He sued the paper and acted as his own attorney
- He lost, appealed, and lost again

It would be yet another shooter with a history against women.

He sued them, so likely appeared in court but thought by cutting off his fingerprints nobody would ever figure out who he was?

[CarterNMA]

I was switching between CNN and WTTG (Fox affiliate in D.C.). The difference in coverage was stark. CNN was speculating endlessly about motivations and the kind of people who do this kind of thing and brought in law enforcement experts and etc. WTTG were sticking to what was known and some of the newscaster's voices were cracking at times as they felt a kinship to the victims.

It's kind of sad how bad CNN has become in the last 18 months.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CarterNMA

I was switching between CNN and WTTG (Fox affiliate in D.C.). The difference in coverage was stark. CNN was speculating endlessly about motivations and the kind of people who do this kind of thing and brought in law enforcement experts and etc. WTTG were sticking to what was known and some of the newscaster's voices were cracking at times as they felt a kinship to the victims.

It's kind of sad how bad CNN has become in the last 18 months.

I'd say it's been longer than 18 months. Cable news has been a cesspool for decades now (at least since 9/11). It's entertainment to them and you can see how giddy they get with excitement whenever a mass shooting breaks out.

Local news is usually just local journalists who's broadcasts come across more as a "public service" than variety show.

[RainMaker]

Here is the appeal he had.

https://www.mdcourts.gov/sites/defau...15/2281s13.pdf

He also has a Twitter up and it's obvious he's mentally disturbed. Would have been nice for someone to spot that and do something about it.

[RainMaker]

Here's his Twitter: Jarrod W. Ramos (@EricHartleyFrnd) | Twitter

He made veiled threats to the paper for years. Can't fathom why we'd allow someone like that to buy a gun.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by panerd

Like the congressional softball shooter?

Well played.

[miami_fan]

How often do we ever take online threats seriously? Rarely

Do we really want LE to take online threats seriously?

I don’t know.

[Thomkal]

Sean Hannity blames Maxine Waters and of course Obama for the shootings:


Hannity outrageously points finger at Waters, Obama for rhetoric that fed Annapolis Capital Gazette shooting - Baltimore Sun

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Sean Hannity blames Maxine Waters and of course Obama for the shootings:


Hannity outrageously points finger at Waters, Obama for rhetoric that fed Annapolis Capital Gazette shooting - Baltimore Sun

I rest my case.

The WH responds with this today: At the White House, spokeswoman Lindsay Walters said: "There is no room for violence, and we stick by that. Violence is never tolerated in any form, no matter whom it is against."

Which sounds nice, but is complete and total bullshit because the list is long of trump advocating violence, in many forms, against people, he primarily doesn't agree with.

Has Donald Trump never 'promoted or encouraged violence,' as Sarah Huckabee Sanders said? | PolitiFact

[Thomkal]

Yep nearly every rally he's calling for violence against the media

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Here's his Twitter: Jarrod W. Ramos (@EricHartleyFrnd) | Twitter

He made veiled threats to the paper for years. Can't fathom why we'd allow someone like that to buy a gun.

If, hypothetically, I had a twitter that I used to rant and rave about TSA and airport security and INS and threatened violence against them I'd be pretty sure I'd be on some kind of list that meant I'd never get on a plane again. At what point do we start to apply that kind of logic to people owning guns?

And to answer the post afterwards, I don't know if we should expect law enforcement to lock people up for online threats, but I do think that this kind of thing should absolutely get your guns taken away. Maybe I don't live in the kind of world where it's normal to threaten physical violence against people on Twitter, I dunno.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

At what point do we start to apply that kind of logic to people owning guns?

We don't. I've lost hope on this, and many other things about our nation. Once a shooting in an elementary school did nothing, why would anything ever change? Enough people in this country believe this is just the cost of freedom, that I have no hope.

Maybe we've gone so far off the rails and left reality with this presidential administration to the point that there will be pushback that actually fixes things, but I have little hope of this. Only sadness.

[molson]

I've dealt with a lot of wacky pro se litigants. You really do get used to it. Most manage to stop short of specific threats, though I'm sure if someone took me out they'd find all this stuff and wonder why nobody "did anything". A lot of the stuff comes from prisons and I do send along the worst examples to the parole board. But I've also waded through a ton of delusional "Justice for X" type facebook pages from sovereign citizens and others who just feel absolutely wronged due to their misunderstanding of the process and their denial or ignorance about the harm they've caused.

[Dantooine98]

finally, now I know what happened I've been watching CNN for an hour and still don't know what's going on.... CNN likes to talk talk talk about nothing why not go straight to the point and be a newsreader like they supposed to be.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Sounds like it might be an individual with a gripe against the paper. He sued them for defamation and lost.

Story seems to go:

- Suspect relentlessly harassed a woman he had went to high school with.
- She called the police and he was charged and plead guilty to harassment.
- Paper wrote a story on it
- He sued the paper and acted as his own attorney
- He lost, appealed, and lost again

It would be yet another shooter with a history against women.

[stevew]

If we can't restrict abusers from owning guns, can we at least take away their ability to own motorcycles and/or oversized pick up trucks?

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by digamma

The odd thing is that the most promising gun policy legislation, in terms of saving lives, doesn't touch actual guns at all. It is about access and who is allowed to purchase or obtain firearms. I'm not sure why I need to have fired a semi-automatic weapon to think a domestic abuser shouldn't have access to a gun, regardless of type.

+1

PS - For the record, like most kids from my era in England - I've fired guns (ranging from rifles to shotguns - pistols weren't common outside of BB guns when I was growing up) and used to be a reasonably decent shot when I was younger.

[molson]

It's illegal for anyone convicted of domestic violence to purchase or possess a gun, even misdemeanor domestic violence.

So that designation becomes a huge battleground in red state courtrooms. Someone will be charged with domestic battery, they'll agree to plead to simple battery or disturbing the peace, to do jail time, to do 52 weeks of domestic violence counseling, agree to a non-contact order, etc., but if the prosecutor holds firm on a DV charge, they'll insist on a jury trial. And the victim shows up for that only sometimes, and the jury often acquits when there's no evidence of injury (as would be the case with a misdemeanor).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

It's illegal for anyone convicted of domestic violence to purchase or possess a gun, even misdemeanor domestic violence.

Interesting. Do you know if criminal harassment or stalking would fall under that?

There is a lot of attention on the big mass shootings but there are so many domestic shootings that take place that are ignored. An angry ex kills a family, ex's lover, etc. Many with restraining orders and histories of threats. Have to wonder if we started taking that stuff more seriously if we'd cut down on these kind of murders. When someone says they are going to kill someone and then go purchase a weapon, maybe take them at their word?

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Yep nearly every rally he's calling for violence against the media

Not sure why people got upset about this. The President and governing political party has routinely either called for violence or insinuated such against the media. It's not a stretch to think someone has acted out on that.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I don't know if we should expect law enforcement to lock people up for online threats

Maybe we should. I've always thought it was weird that we decide that threats on the internet are fine but the minute you do it in public it's a different story.

I know the response is "there are so many" but maybe that's a result of it being legal (and encouraged by some social media outlets). A few high profile arrests and I guarantee that behavior changes.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Interesting. Do you know if criminal harassment or stalking would fall under that?

Federal law bans people convicted of felonies and misdemeanor domestic batteries from owning or possessing guns. Criminal harassment and stalking are usually misdemeanors, so they wouldn't be covered by those federal provisions.

And it gets a little tricky when the domestic violence or felony is a state law crime. States have the authority to define their own crimes so they have the power to restore someone's gun rights after the sentence is completed or sometime later. And states vary widely on how they deal with that. But it's generally very difficult and takes many years, even in gun-friendly states.