Werewolf 107, Terror at Blizzcon, Basic Game, GAME OVER, HORDE WINS

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

GE are you going to tell us your theories before you are eaten again?

They are really not valid if I am dead.

[CrimsonFox]

goody!

[Lathum]

Deadline

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I am still waiting for that pizza.

Don't say that word. Now I'm on a diet and tonight that's all I can think of.

[CrimsonFox]

ASs it's my birfday I ordered myself a nice big one with lotsa toppings
mmmm *munchmunch*

[Lathum]

There is some early deliberation about who is more guilty, J23 or Clap. In the end the tide turns to Clap and you all grab him and beat him to a bloody pulp. Once he is clearly dead you loot through his pockets and all you find is a book titles :How to Pick Up Women on WoW"

Clap was a villager

[Lathum]

You all wake up in the morning and notice GE isn't there. You rush to his room, could this be a repeat of yesterday? You open the door and find him slumped in his desk crair in front of him the latest patch download is stuck at 70%.

GE was the Mage.

Day 4 has now begun.

[Poli]

How sad. I was hoping ge would be granted some summoning sickness
or something.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'll see your no life, and raise you "checking in on Saturday night to see what is going on at the start of a game where I'm not even participating".

I knew I shouldn't ever trust this "not even playing" excuse.

VOTE HOOPS

[Poli]

I really hate posting from my iPhone.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Poli

I really hate posting from my iPhone.

+1

[Autumn]

Well, that sucks. I was a bit worried about the lack of movement towards the end, but was hoping the wolves were just scared to paint more targets on themselves. Blargh.

[spleen1015]

Does anyone have the vote totals for Day 3?

[The Jackal]

It would be nice if villagers didn't make bonehead plays at deadlines (-coughEFandclapcough-). I'm pretty sure I'm going with RD tomorrow.

[J23]

Wow, I was sure we had a wolf.

Clap, you have to tell us what the heck you were thinking last night.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I knew I shouldn't ever trust this "not even playing" excuse.

VOTE HOOPS

You've learned quickly

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by J23

Wow, I was sure we had a wolf.

Clap, you have to tell us what the heck you were thinking last night.

Personally when he did it, I took it with good intention. EF was steamrollering the crusade and many thought that he was a wolf because of night one. After he was one of the people that tried to help save the night 1 vote and thus really suspected EF, I thought he was innocent and his last second move was a "screw it. I'm not listening to someone most of us think is a wolf especially when the vote is likely to be screwed up by wolves anyway. I'm going with my gut about EF" vote, which he wasn't the only one of us to do that, he was just the last.


As I said before, the nature of this game suggests that everyone is going to go with their instincts, no matter how wrong they are. I didn't really argue the clap vote from tonight's results because I've been wrong on everything else so far so I figured you guys just might be right. I really wish clap would have said something today. He wouldn't have looked as guilty. Perhaps he just wanted out of this mess.

[PurdueBrad]

I'm pretty caught up, sorry again about yesterday and thanks for understanding my inability to be here much yesterday (feeling better now). I'm looking forward to post-game regarding GE's scans (or lack of the ability to do them) but I'll move on. I thought Clap looked guilty yesterday although I oftentimes do.

I want to return to where I was willing to vote earlier in the game (D2 I think it was). The plan we put together left me voting for the person I wanted to vote for anyway, dubb. I'll used dubb's name because I don't have a read on RendeR but I just keep returning mentally to the back and forth that dubb-EF had. For most people, I would've said that there is no way they would've pushed that hard to lynch somebody that early if they were a wolf but dubb has always been able to hide behind the "that's my style" argument, which it typically is. I just saw some parallels there between what I saw from him in Jackal vs. dubb last game and EF vs. dubb this game. And that was another time I thought that there is probably no way dubb is bad because why be that public and over the top trying to lynch somebody and yet he was a wolf. So:

vote dubb/RendeR

[Poli]

Vote Crimson Fox

Back to my original drawing board for now.

[Autumn]

I would tend to go towards RealDeal for obstinately opposing the Warlock plan, a move that greatly benefited the wolves if there is a warlock. I'm still worried about the possibility that there is not one, however. If that's the case the wolves could care less about these plans to tie, and we'd be wasting our time going after people disrupting the ties. It may just be a case of boneheaded villagers, as CF says. It's too bad we couldn't have pulled off the all-way tie and prove whether a warlock exists or not.

If I don't go with RealDeal or J23 for their seeming anti-tie shenanigans, I might go with RendeR as well. I'll have to hit the drawing board.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Poli

Vote Crimson Fox

Back to my original drawing board for now.

What was your reason for voting CF?

[Poli]

No real reason, I'm likely to join the fray on RD or J23. CF is just #2 on the signup list.

I'll UNVOTE CF and VOTE RD.

[spleen1015]

I don't have anyone I feel like voting for yet today.

I was looking at the voting history and I noticed that Jackal didn't place a vote on Day 1. I could be wrong on that though. His other votes were the only votes for those folks. So, I'm looking at him being a wolf just kind of laying in the weeds, not drawing any attention.

[Schmidty]

I won't be home from work until 6 p.m. EST.

Sorry for the lack of posts, but I suck hard as a vanilla villager.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I don't have anyone I feel like voting for yet today.

I was looking at the voting history and I noticed that Jackal didn't place a vote on Day 1. I could be wrong on that though. His other votes were the only votes for those folks. So, I'm looking at him being a wolf just kind of laying in the weeds, not drawing any attention.

If you look at the end of Day 1 you will see that I was around the entire time, and I didn't place a vote because I was encouraging a tie to happen to flesh out the warlock. It wasn't laying low.

[The Jackal]

My lone vote on Poli was because I was out the rest of the day after we concocted the plan (and I assumed that if it fell apart, EF was going to get most people's votes anyways) - and my lone vote on RD was because that's who I wanted to vote for (and again, assumed clap was likely getting lynched no matter what I did).

Now I'm going to return to my original vote. RD spread out the vote on day 1 when we already had a fair amount of candidates (and pressure was beginning to mount on DV-dubb) and never even considered the plan that pretty much the entire village was on board with.

VOTE RD

[Autumn]

I'm fine with the candidates that are being discussed being in the mix. I'm not sure, and I'd like to see what happens with them.

Vote RendeR

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

If you look at the end of Day 1 you will see that I was around the entire time, and I didn't place a vote because I was encouraging a tie to happen to flesh out the warlock. It wasn't laying low.

By not casting a vote, you cloud the ability to use voting history.

VOTE The Jackal

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

By not casting a vote, you cloud the ability to use voting history.

VOTE The Jackal

I'm sorry for trying to flesh out the warlock? Go back and read my posts? You can consider my vote for Poli a vote for EF, because that's where I would have gone but it was a runaway anyways, and consider my vote for RD a vote for RD because that's who I think is a wolf. Why are you trying to steer the conversation away from the candidates that have presented themselves? (J23, RD, rendubb possibly)

[RealDeal]

As I said before, I'd probably find myself to be a decent candidate based on my votes. You won't get a wolf by lynching me, but you won't be killing anyone with a role or useful information either, so it won't be all bad.

On the other hand, I would resent votes for me based on the fact that I sensibly told you the warlock plan wouldn't work this early in the game and was a colossal waste of time and focus at this point. Anyone who knows my WW style knows that on a meta level in this game, I am brutally blunt about bad ideas and sloppy vote justifications, whether I am a wolf or villager.

Since I seem to be a prime candidate this round, I'll reserve my vote for whoever I need to vote for to protect myself.

[The Jackal]

If you really think I'm a wolf after today's voting, bring it up tomorrow, but moving away from our established candidates is pretty wolfy on its own, spleen.

[The Jackal]

And if you are in fact a wolf, just remember what happened last game when a wolf tried to single me out. Bring it on.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

If you really think I'm a wolf after today's voting, bring it up tomorrow, but moving away from our established candidates is pretty wolfy on its own, spleen.

You are definitely right in this, but I know I'm a vanilla villager so I'm not worried about it.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

And if you are in fact a wolf, just remember what happened last game when a wolf tried to single me out. Bring it on.

This is my first game in a while, so I have no idea.

[The Jackal]

RD - in the spirit of not having a foolishly narrow gaze, I'll probe you. You've tried to explain that you didn't think the warlock plan would work, but you realize you were the main reason that it did not work, yes? Once it became clear you were never going to get on board people began switching and it ended up lynching a villager. Don't get me wrong, EF and clap have made themselves look very suspicious with deadline moves, so I'm not questioning the lynches, but this goes beyond you not thinking the plan would work - you pretty much ruined it, which portrays you as pretty wolfy.

But going beyond that - why did you spread out the vote on Day 1 even further?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

You are definitely right in this, but I know I'm a vanilla villager so I'm not worried about it.

I understand what you are saying - my votes haven't given too much room for analysis, but I had fair reason for not voting, and don't you think I would have tried to save the cunning wolf instead of not voting at the end of day 1?

Either way, let's consolidate the votes here today. We have a few prime candidates and don't want to get distracted.

[spleen1015]

Here's my line of thinking.

Vote switching at the near the deadline has been proclaimed to be wolfish. This is Werewolf game 107. Aren't folks on to this idea now? Wouldn't the wolves know better by now and not make this mistake?

i believe they mighty do it if it saved a vital wolf role, but would they do it for a regular wolf? Maybe we should look at who the votes are moving from, not who moved them.

Following this line of thinking, I am trying to think a little outside the box and go a different direction. That's why I've said what I said about Jackal.

[spleen1015]

Wow. I totally butchered that last post.

[The Jackal]

Ok, well think about your last post - don't you think, if I was a wolf, I would have cast a vote to try and save the cunning wolf? There's no way I would have risk letting him die.

[The Jackal]

And yes, this might be game 107, but wolves still make deadline switches all the time to save other wolves - because they can be explained off and because villagers do the same thing, as evidenced in this game.

[RealDeal]

I don't think my original Day 1 vote was abnormal in the context of normal day one voting. I voted first for GE during the early time when everyone was just spewing random votes in a normal Day 1 way.

At a certain point I switched to Kwhit, which at the time I cast the vote, was a meaningful vote. I wasn't around the rest of the day and didn't get the chance to switch again to one of the two main candidates when they arose as main candidates. But at the time I switched to Kwhit, I wasn't spreading the vote around.

As far as warlock plan. The plan was for all 15 people to vote for a specific other person. It wasn't going to work, because at least a couple of people wouldn't have been around. If I were a wolf I would have loved to see the villagers do stuff like that because people stop doing analysis and because no one is actually having to justify their vote.

Also, it made it super easy for wolves to steer the voting at the end. All you do if you are wolves is have a couple cast a non-complying vote early in the day and then not change it and say you were busy at work and didn't have a chance to check back in.

Lastly, stuff like that is just dumb and not fun. If I wanted to do that, I would start a different thread for a game dedicated to daisy chaining votes and play that instead of WW.

I doubt that a wolf would actually do what I did because of the amount of scrutiny it brings on you.

[The Jackal]

First of all, using being busy at work and not having a chance to check in would be a serious foul play in my eyes and the eyes of many. Often many of us do run into that circumstance, as both a villager or a wolf - but intentionally planning on doing that is poor form.

[The Jackal]

You do realize that everyone except you and Schmidty (I think?) was in line with the plan at one point? Continually saying it was foolish is kind of bizarre, I think it's impressive that we almost organized it. It's not like this kind of thing happens often in our games - but when we see a mechanic that we can take advantage of to flesh out wolves, why wouldn't we try to grasp it?

[The Jackal]

And to address the point of a wolf not bringing scrutiny to themselves - there usually has to be at least one wolf who is heavily involved in conversation. To have everyone flying under the radar is dangerous, though watching villager pitting themselves against each other when they have no way to know they are both villagers is classic help to wolves.

Where do you think the wolves are, then? Do you think J is a viable candidate or are you just going to vote to save yourself?

[RealDeal]

Not saying it's always a bad idea, just not feasible or fun early in the game when 15 people are still alive. As I said before, it's completely workable a little later in the game.

[RealDeal]

Going to vote to save myself, and honestly, I don't have a great feel for who might be a wolf anyway this game. Some games, like last game, I felt like I had a good finger on the pulse. This game not so much.

[The Jackal]

I'm going to need some analysis from you on other candidates if I'm going to want to move my vote, because right now I still see you as a good option. If you are indeed a villager, I'm sorry, and maybe I don't know your playing style well enough - but right now you are still looking a very viable spot for a wolf.

[RealDeal]

If I come up with some ideas, I'll give them, but not going to make stuff up because you want me to.

If you vote for me it will be a reasonable choice. Wrong, but only in hindsight.

[The Jackal]

Spleen - I'd love for you to answer my question about why I wouldn't try to save the cunning with a vote on day 1 - I think my lack of vote provided a fair amount of analysis in that respect.

I'm off to lunch now, back later for more conversation.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

If I come up with some ideas, I'll give them, but not going to make stuff up because you want me to.

If you vote for me it will be a reasonable choice. Wrong, but only in hindsight.

Certainly don't make stuff up - just trying to get some discussion going with you, I want to give you a fair chance to convince me of your innocence. I'll be around most of the day to see where conversation on J or rendubb goes and decide if they are better candidates.