WW LXVII - Heroes (GAME OVER! HEROES WIN!)

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, do you think that I (as the Cheerleader) have a vote move power?

I don't - I'm glad someone moved my vote, but it wasn't me doing anything.

[st.cronin]

I think its unlikely, but I don't discount it. I didn't realize you were the cheerleader - did Alan post that somewhere or something?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by RendeR

VOTE THE JACKAL


If not we do now....


merely a random choice based on absolutely nothing in particular =)

Ass. I did remove my vote on you, after all.

[st.cronin]

Dola, I mean I think its an unlikely ability no matter what your role is. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for that role, but who knows.

[The Jackal]

I don't know who changed hoops' vote, but believe me, I'm not company. I also don't want to reveal my power because it seems foolish at this stage (and I don't have any new information for us).

Just to get something going..

Vote Thomkal

[st.cronin]

Ok, found the post where hoops claimed to be Claire, I forgot that was the same character as the cheerleader.

So we have:

Hoops - Claire Bennet
st.cronin - Mohinder Soresh
SnDvls - Ando

Am I missing any?

[hoopsguy]

Those are the ones that I've seen so far. And, obviously, we have the dead people.

I can confirm also confirm that neither Cronin nor SnDvls are people I scanned as Noah Bennet (HRG). So there are two people out there that I can confirm are not HRG who are still part of the game, for what little that is worth.

[st.cronin]

That's a pretty interesting coincidence - that the two players hoops claims to have scanned, are the two players to have claimed roles. I don't know what it means.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

That's a pretty interesting coincidence - that the two players hoops claims to have scanned, are the two players to have claimed roles. I don't know what it means.

I don't think that's what he said

re-read it again

[st.cronin]

Is he trying to say that he scanned two people that are not Sndvls and st.cronin? Because I think he grammar-failed. The double negative makes it ambiguous.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Is he trying to say that he scanned two people that are not Sndvls and st.cronin? Because I think he grammar-failed. The double negative makes it ambiguous.

that's how I read it yes

[st.cronin]

Well, I read it the other way, although the final clause doesn't really make sense unless you interpret it your way - so I'll let hoops clear it up.

[hoopsguy]

Right, I've claimed that two people still in the game (not dead) and who have not revealed yet (not Cronin or SnDvls) are not Noah.

If I doubted you (Cronin) or Sn then I could come back around and scan one of you to see if you are Noah Bennet. But since I have no idea of his faction in the game, I don't see a ton of value in testing your reveals when we have a ton of players left, many of whom have not revealed any role yet.

PM rights is always a mixed bag in werewolf anyway, so I'm not all that keen on this aspect of my powers. But if someone does want to come out and suggest they are Noah then we can start having some extended father/daughter chats once I put in the search order for them.

[hoopsguy]

And I'm up for better ways of stating this going forward if anyone has suggestions

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Those are the ones that I've seen so far. And, obviously, we have the dead people.

I have not scanned either Cronin or SnDvls to see if they are HRG. So, there are two other people out there that I can confirm are not HRG who are still part of the game, for what little that is worth.

Fixed.

[hoopsguy]

I will cut/paste this version and use it for all future references to Noah/HRG scans for the remainder of the game

OK, vote analysis underway. Damn, there were a lot of posts today!

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Really? I would not have guessed that the Haitian would have that ability. I would have thought he would be able to read minds, or compel a vote, or something along those lines.

Cronin, are you willing to entertain discussion about your abilities as Mohinder?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cronin, are you willing to entertain discussion about your abilities as Mohinder?

Well, you're free to ask questions. I'd like to keep what my abilities actually are a secret from the Company, but depending on what you have in mind, I'm open to a conversation.

[st.cronin]

I think I'll be around a little longer, but it just started snowing, which means my internets could be broken any minute, so:

VOTE SCHMIDTY

For not moving off of no lynch yesterday, essentially.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Well, you're free to ask questions. I'd like to keep what my abilities actually are a secret from the Company, but depending on what you have in mind, I'm open to a conversation.

The post I quoted listed using the move vote power. Do you, as Mohinder, have the ability to know what powers are in the game?

Answer is probably "no" but it struck me as I was reading through that this is a mechanic that isn't used all that often and then it showed up the next day when my vote was moved.

[st.cronin]

No, I do not have that ability or anything like it.

[st.cronin]

Like I said, my ability does not seem to have anything to do with my character, which makes it surprising to me that so many people claim their ability does.

[Poli]

I was a cunning wolf? I've been away from the game too long. I thought I was just a sucky wolf.

[Thomkal]

Well I'm off for the night, but I likely will be voting for one of the later Jackal voters. If the wolves tried to save Ardent, then at least one of those votes has to be from a wolf.

[hoopsguy]

Day 2 vote:
318 - Clap votes Thomkal (1-0)
328 - Cronin votes Ardent (1-1)
331 - Alan votes Clap (1-1-1)
357 - NFG votes Clap (2-1-1)
397 - Ardent votes Alan T (2-1-1-1)
426 - Alan unvotes Clap, votes NFG (1-1-1-1-1)
434 - Chief votes Thomkal (2-1-1-1-1) Thom leads
443 - Schmidty votes Grey (2-1-1-1-1-1)
444 - MrW votes Olie (2-1-1-1-1-1-1)
445 - Narc votes NoLynch (2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1)
447 - Neon votes NoLynch (2-2-1-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied
452 - Ardent unvotes Alan, votes NoLynch (3-2-1-1-1-1-1)
459 - Thomkal votes Chief (3-2-1-1-1-1-1-1)
471 - Mauboy votes Neon (3-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1)
474 - Lathum votes Thomkal (3-3-1-1-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied
480 - Jackal unvotes Render, votes Thomkal (4-3-1-1-1-1-1-1) Thom leads
487 - SnDvls votes Ardent (4-3-2-1-1-1-1-1) Ardent now 3rd in votes, separating from pack of ones
488 - Schmidty unvotes Grey, votes NoLynch (4-4-2-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied
489 - Hoops votes Jackal (4-4-2-1-1-1-1-1-1)
496/498 - NFG unvotes Clap, votes Jackal (4-4-2-2-1-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied, AE/Jackal two back
499 - RendeR votes Neon (4-4-2-2-2-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied, AE/Jackal/Neon two back
511 - Path votes Neon (4-4-3-2-2-1-1-1-1) Thom/NL tied, Neon one back, AE/Jackal two back
512 - Alan unvotes NFG, votes Ardent (4-4-3-3-2-1-1) Thom/NL tied, Neon/AE one back, Jackal two back
518 - Olie votes Ardent (4-4-4-3-2-1-1) Thom/NL/Ardent tied, Neon one back, Jackal two back
520 - Thomkal unvotes Chief, votes Jackal (4-4-4-3-3-1) Thom/NL/Ardent tied, Neon/Jackal one back
528 - Torgo votes NoLynch (5-4-4-3-3-1) NL leads, Thom/Ardent tied, Neon/Jackal two back
529 - Barkeep votes Jackal (5-4-4-4-3-1) NL leads, Thom/Ardent/Jackal tied, Neon two back
530 - Torgo unvote NoLynch, votes Neon (4-4-4-4-4-1) NL/Thom/Ardent/Jackal/Neon tied
553 - Neon unvotes NoLynch, votes Jackal (5-4-4-3-1) Jackal leads, Thom/Ardent/Neon one back, NL two back
565 - MrW unvotes Olie, votes Jackal (6-4-4-3) Jackal up two on Thom/Ardent/Neon, three on NL
585 - Jackal unvotes Thomkal, votes Neon (6-5-4-3-3) Jackal up one on Neon, two on Ardent, three on Thom/NL
597 - Grey votes Jackal (7-5-4-3-3) Jackal up two on Neon, three on Ardent, four on Thom/NL
612 - Jackal unvotes Neon, votes Ardent (7-5-4-3-3) Jackal up two on Ardent, three on Neon, four on Thom/NL
618 - Neon unvotes Jackal, votes Ardent (6-6-4-3-3) Jackal/Ardent tied, up two on Neon, three on Thom/NL
DEADLINE
Vote moved by 3rd party - Hoopsguy's from Jackal to Ardent, Ardent lynched by 7-5 margin over Jackal

[st.cronin]

Ah, now everything is crystal clear.

[hoopsguy]

Impressions from reading through this.

1.) Alan was pushing for Ardent pretty frequently in this process. He comes out smelling like a rose.
2.) The person moving the vote is pretty unlikely to be a wolf. What are odds that Jackal is more important wolf than Ardent who can't be spied on, and always shows up villager?
3.) Jackal is unlikely to be a wolf for the same reason
4.) Neon is unlikely to be a wolf for the same reason

Order of votes on Ardent:
328 - Cronin (who has revealed as Mohinder)
487 - SnDvls (who has revealed as Ando and given info on use of powers)
512 - Alan T
518 - Oliegirl (who is dead and revealed as hero)
612 - Jackal
618 - Neon

[st.cronin]

The fact that hoops vote got moved makes it really hard for me to trust my analysis of that vote. Its possible that the Company wasn't worried about ardent being lynched at all, and were caught off guard by what happened.

But a straightforward analysis would point one at Greyroofoo, Mr. Wednesday, or DaddyTorgo, as I think those were the last three votes (other than Neon/Jackal self preservation moves) that DIDN'T go to ardent.

[hoopsguy]

More impressions, these more to the negative:
1.) Grey's vote on Jackal put him up two late. This clearly looks like a bad vote right now if you join me in assumption that both Neon and Jackal were good guys
2.) MrW had an earlier vote on Jackal putting him two ahead of the pack of Ardent/Thomkal/Neon. Again, not a good vote
3.) DaddyTorgo moved from NoLynch to Neon, creating a five way tie (Ardent, NoLynch, Neon, Jackal, Thomkal). Not nearly as bad a vote as the first two listed, as it put Ardent in tie for lead
4.) Barkeep put vote on Jackal, putting him ahead 5-4 (everyone else).
5.) Thomkal unvoted Chief, put his vote on Jackal. He could have put Ardent in the lead here if he moved the vote there instead of Jackal. Thomkal is the guy in the mix here that I'm most concerned with among those receiving votes today
6.) Path voted for Neon, creating a two vote separation from leaders and Ardent. As a wolf, would he have voted for Thomkal to protect Ardent?
7.) Thomkal did not make a late vote switch, for better or for worse - this has already been discussed

I'm not sure how much further back to go in terms of Day 2 votes. But the people listed here all had votes when Ardent was at some level of risk

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

The fact that hoops vote got moved makes it really hard for me to trust my analysis of that vote. Its possible that the Company wasn't worried about ardent being lynched at all, and were caught off guard by what happened.

But a straightforward analysis would point one at Greyroofoo, Mr. Wednesday, or DaddyTorgo, as I think those were the last three votes (other than Neon/Jackal self preservation moves) that DIDN'T go to ardent.

Even without my vote being moved, it was going to a tie. Unless the Company understands the tie-breaker they would have liked to avoid it - particularly with the wolf who can't be caught at "night".

[hoopsguy]

If someone has information on Thomkal that they can share in terms of his faction I think it would be worth revealing to help with vote analysis. Obviously it is easy for me to ask for that ... the person who has that info clearly is the one who gets to weigh risk/reward on the decision.

If there is someone who can determine faction, I would ask them to put Thomkal in the mix for a scan next deadline. Of course, this was a deathwish in the last game I played (bad guys killed the people I wanted to see scanned), but clearly it is not if he is a Company man.

[st.cronin]

Alan has been very defensive about Thomkal's goodness, for what its worth.

[hoopsguy]

Yes, and Alan suggested that he targeted me for an action on Day 2 so if he has info on it I think he should be very clear on it.

All of the guys who are prominently trusted after today are strong candidates for a night kill - if they have information to share I think there is a good argument to be made about sharing it. There is almost certainly a bodyguard role, if not multiple roles that could potentially help them stay alive post-reveal for a period of time.

That said, having clarity on Thomkal is the priority for me in the vote analysis today. If he is a good guy then it becomes easier to pull info from the voting records.

[Greyroofoo]

Well looks like I'm getting lynched tomorrow

[hoopsguy]

Dola - if Alan has info on Thomkal from Day 1 I think he should be very clear on it. Combination of elevated trust + not wanting to see info go to the grave + need to understand Thomkal's position in the vote run-off today.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

Well looks like I'm getting lynched tomorrow

Would that be a mistake? If so, help convince us. I don't think that people have lined up with the pitchforks quite yet.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, going back and reading the post-lynch stuff it seems like I'm at the same place with vote analysis as you were earlier with Thomkal early this afternoon.

Still working my way through stuff I skimmed while at work ...

[hoopsguy]

Another semi-random note - I don't get the West Rosen/Matt Parkman connection. Did these characters even meet in the show?

I don't think there was much doubt that Matt Parkman was in the game, but the West role PM cinches it.

[st.cronin]

Does West Rosen appear in Season 1? I don't even know who that is.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cronin, going back and reading the post-lynch stuff it seems like I'm at the same place with vote analysis as you were earlier with Thomkal early this afternoon.

Well, whatever you do, don't tell Alan that.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Would that be a mistake? If so, help convince us. I don't think that people have lined up with the pitchforks quite yet.

You made a good point with greyfoo. I'm going to seriously consider moving my vote to him, but there's time yet. It seems like there's some hesitance to go after Thomkal, or at least to pile votes on him.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

From my limited experience of werewolf I'd say that Alan is one of the best villagers I've seen, and he certainly seems to be one of the few people here actually coming up with any ideas. (he was the first one to bring up the No Lynch idea, for example, something the majority agreed with). Sure he might be a wolf but at the moment it seems to be me that what he's been contributing makes any vote on him pretty strange. Sure he could be a wolf hiding in the open and trying to misdirect us blah blah blah but I think as villagers we gain a lot more by giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying that he's a villager at this stage.

Stream of consciousness posting, so forgive me if I hit on anything already discussed.

Just want to note to Narcizo here that while I agree with his general thinking, I find Alan to be a very crafty "wolf on the open". I have seen him do it before. The trick is that he is always helpful and a conversation driver, whether he is a wolf or a villager. This makes it extremely hard to pin his role on his behavior. So I think it would be dangerous to assume he is a Hero at this point, but what I have read to this point makes me believe he is.

BTW, what the heck, people, I work two jobs, and you expect me to read over 350 posts? Sonofa...

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Does West Rosen appear in Season 1? I don't even know who that is.

The guy that dates the cheerleader, pretty sure he first appears at the start of Season 2.

[st.cronin]

Gah, please no season 2 spoilers.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

As far as voting today - I have no idea what direction to go, as usually happens at this point in the game. I would vote Alan for the drama (perhaps a wolf trying to shed heat by loudly being "outraged and offended"), but I know that he would never go so far as to threaten to quit the game to gain leverage, so that pretty much makes voting for him senseless. Also, nfg22 is being quite aggressive, and I'm pretty sure a wolf wouldn't do that until later in the game, so that rules him out to me right now. After that, I'm not sure where to go.

At this point, I believe I'll go with someone quiet, as I'm not sure what else to do:


Vote Greyroofoo

nfg was aggressive last game, too, and I think it ended up getting him lynched. That said, I think he was being helpful in that game and got mislabeled a bit. He might be at risk of doing so again. I would suggest, assuming something damning hasn't come out, that we cut him some slack and see what he has to say. I always welcome active and aggressive players--we need more of them.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Gah, please no season 2 spoilers.

Sorry, although on a scale of 1-10 I think this is on the very low end of the scale.

Go rent Season 2

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Sorry, although on a scale of 1-10 I think this is on the very low end of the scale.

Go rent Season 2

Why did you have to label the scale as 1-10 if you weren't going to assign it an actual number?

[hoopsguy]

Good point, Pass. I would rate it a 2.21 on the 1-10 scale. Small fries spoiler.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Sorry, although on a scale of 1-10 I think this is on the very low end of the scale.

Go rent Season 2

Yeah that one wasn't bad, I'm just worried about where the talk is going to go.

Season 2 isn't available (legally) yet.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Vote Ardent

it just concerns me he says he has no night power and doesn't sit well with me.

Oh yeah, read this last night from ardent and wanted to respond then but had to go to bed.

I think what AE was getting it is that some powers are ones you actively perform, as in "scan Chief Rum" or "guard ardent", etc. These are active powers.

AE was saying he has a "passive" power, which I equate to one that is always there and working, like invisibility or mind block or something like that. So it's not something you need to activate.

In particular I felt I understood what AE was driving at because I have a power that could be described that way.