Werewolf LXXIX - The Labyrinth (Game Over - Commoners Win!)

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by path12

Is he also to blame for Adam Jones breaking his foot?

Adam Jones broke his foot?

[Barkeep49]

Ok so it seems like we need 50% (or 50+1). We've got a lot of no voters, which is quite discouraging.

[Lathum]

who didnt vote?

[Lathum]

dola- could there be some mechanic that kept people from voting?

[PurdueBrad]

Guys, I'm sorry that I wasn't around to move my vote although I'm still not sure it would've mattered in the long run.

[PurdueBrad]

Just in case something happens, I had a cage of bars start to drop on me. IF I go incommunicado, I have a feeling it is because I'm imprisoned.

[Barkeep49]

Packer and clap.

[Lathum]

odd, clap was omni-present today

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Lathum

who didnt vote?

clap, Render, and Abe, although Render voted and later retracted it. And yeah, clap was here all darn day.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Just in case something happens, I had a cage of bars start to drop on me. IF I go incommunicado, I have a feeling it is because I'm imprisoned.

Ummm, wow, let's just say I made the right choice. Although I don't get a 3 pm move, I'm still alive...narrowly!

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Ummm, wow, let's just say I made the right choice. Although I don't get a 3 pm move, I'm still alive...narrowly!

Nananananananana SPIKE PIT!

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Nananananananana SPIKE PIT!

Hehe, more like when Indiana Jones walks through the cobwebs in The Last Crusade. I think the Joker was getting me back for that Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man remark!

[RendeR]

I tried to get my vote in, I had forgotten to update it before I left work, then I forgot to bold it and put it on a seperate line and it posted at 10:01 =(


Sorry guys, though it was a vote for telle anyway so I doubt it would have mattered.

Although...I wonder if part of the problem is that we're not ALL voting? not just voting for the same person but every single player getting a vote in? Did everyone vote day 1?

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by path12

Is he also to blame for Adam Jones breaking his foot?

angelis is evil
he is to blame for all bad
JFK was him

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

clap, Render, and Abe, although Render voted and later retracted it. And yeah, clap was here all darn day.

all morning here only
I leave work before movement
no power at my home

[claphamsa]

quicksand i am stuck
as the leaves flow around me
no movement for me

[PackerFanatic]

Sad day....good luck guys!

[claphamsa]

how quiet this morning
where has everyone gone to
I need to reread

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I tried to get my vote in, I had forgotten to update it before I left work, then I forgot to bold it and put it on a seperate line and it posted at 10:01 =(


Sorry guys, though it was a vote for telle anyway so I doubt it would have mattered.

Although...I wonder if part of the problem is that we're not ALL voting? not just voting for the same person but every single player getting a vote in? Did everyone vote day 1?

No, KWhit and Path were unable to get votes in on day 1, so it's a possibility. Although the comment that the Joker/Jackal made about "we're getting better" led me to believe that it just takes more agreement on our part.

[claphamsa]

just to get a vote
vote tyrith can change later
If there is reason

[claphamsa]

will the pheonix rise?
Or is it just a city
in the desert sun

[claphamsa]

do we know what did
kill collins? or is it a
mystery for all

[claphamsa]

am I alone in here
is there anyone out there, k?
I like talking alone

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I've never had 4 directions to choose from.

Man. After this post, and the 5 or so posts that followed it, turns out I was wrong. Looking at my PM again, I *did* have 4 directions to choose from after moving for the first time at 10 PM -- I moved to the right Day 2 at 3 PM, and it was a dead end. At 10 PM Day 2, I moved back to the 4-way intersection.

And that's where I'm at now. I probably won't move until 10 PM, and while it's a 4-way intersection, I only have two "real" choices, since one direction is where I came from initially, and the other is the dead end.

Again, I'm not doing this so everyone else can -- I'm doing this because I wanted to correct a mistake I made, in case anyone needs it later, and to get people worried that I'm not revealing enough off my back! Like I said yesterday, I discourage other people from doing the same at this point --I don't think we want the wolves to know who else hasn't been moving (although, if anyone has advice on which way I should go, I'm interested -- it's basically a coin flip to me).

[Tyrith]

Well, I'm still pretty lost and clueless in this maze. I'm going to wait a little bit to see if anyone has any information and then I'm going to come out firing a vote -- probably at Pass at this point, because the ntn lynch was never really anything more than a random vote and at least Pass has a story to potentially corroborate.

[Tyrith]

On that note, I think we really, really need to make up our minds more than an hour or two before the lynch - it seems like we have a lot of people on wacky schedules and such, and we need time to make sure we get eight votes on someone (one half plus one).

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Why is what Pass has to offer something that we want to definitely keep? We are keeping around something that might, or might not, actually be useful. The same is true of ntn.

This post (736) really weirded me out. I think I've made some pretty compelling arguments as to why No Lynch works to our benefit in this game, and to see someone argue that going after a roled villager might be a good idea since it's not a very strong role (which I readily admit), or going after ntn because he might or might not be useful, seems like it's an attempt to sabotage the village to me.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Well, I'm still pretty lost and clueless in this maze. I'm going to wait a little bit to see if anyone has any information and then I'm going to come out firing a vote -- probably at Pass at this point, because the ntn lynch was never really anything more than a random vote and at least Pass has a story to potentially corroborate.

What does having a story to corroborate have to do with anything?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

This post (736) really weirded me out. I think I've made some pretty compelling arguments as to why No Lynch works to our benefit in this game, and to see someone argue that going after a roled villager might be a good idea since it's not a very strong role (which I readily admit), or going after ntn because he might or might not be useful, seems like it's an attempt to sabotage the village to me.

To clarify here -- each villager, roled or not, IS useful to us, because it's another chance at finding the center. What's the point of risking villagers if we don't even need to kill wolves? If we're pretty sure we have a wolf, great. But why play the guessing game?

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

To clarify here -- each villager, roled or not, IS useful to us, because it's another chance at finding the center. What's the point of risking villagers if we don't even need to kill wolves? If we're pretty sure we have a wolf, great. But why play the guessing game?

Because the wolves can kill us.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

To clarify here -- each villager, roled or not, IS useful to us, because it's another chance at finding the center. What's the point of risking villagers if we don't even need to kill wolves? If we're pretty sure we have a wolf, great. But why play the guessing game?

And this seems to be about the most wolfish thing you could say. What's the point of having a game of WW if we don't have to kill the wolves, for whatever reason? I think you're vastly overestimating how simple this game is going to be in that regard.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola- could there be some mechanic that kept people from voting?

There could have been. When I was originally knocked out I was going to be unable to post until deadline. I then received a message saying I woke up before then.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

What does having a story to corroborate have to do with anything?

Because I want to at least learn something from a darn lynch. I'll take any lynch at this point, but I'd much rather at least figure out something in the process. If you have a better suggestion, by all means, go for it. The BK thing is starting to ping my radar, too. I'm just not sure we could get enough traction going that way, the way this game is going.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Telle

Because the wolves can kill us.

Generally, it doesn't matter how many wolves there are -- they still kill one villager per night. That might not be the case in this game, and that's definitely worth exploring, but I don't think your reply answers the question fully.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

And this seems to be about the most wolfish thing you could say. What's the point of having a game of WW if we don't have to kill the wolves, for whatever reason? I think you're vastly overestimating how simple this game is going to be in that regard.

I think you're reading more into my posts than I'm intending. Yesterday you said you don't think it's as simple as no lynch all the way and we win (I forget your phrasing, but I thought it was something like that -- correct me if I'm wrong). That's really not what I was trying to say. It's going to still take a lot to find the center, and there is certainly a risk involved with no lynch -- but it seems like the better alternative to me. My thinking in this is pretty well-reasoned, and doesn't simplify the game like you accuse. As for "what's the point?" -- sometimes WW games get so complex and so into the theme that they barely resemble WW (see my BCS game, or my Chess game, which was another game where the village could win without killing wolves).

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think you're reading more into my posts than I'm intending. Yesterday you said you don't think it's as simple as no lynch all the way and we win (I forget your phrasing, but I thought it was something like that -- correct me if I'm wrong). That's really not what I was trying to say. It's going to still take a lot to find the center, and there is certainly a risk involved with no lynch -- but it seems like the better alternative to me. My thinking in this is pretty well-reasoned, and doesn't simplify the game like you accuse. As for "what's the point?" -- sometimes WW games get so complex and so into the theme that they barely resemble WW (see my BCS game, or my Chess game, which was another game where the village could win without killing wolves).

Fair enough. However, if what we hear is true, things that go on in the maze translate into our ability to transact business in the thread. What's the point of silencing people in the thread if what goes on in the thread is truly secondary? In anything resembling a normal WW game, if there are wolves from the start not lynching for three days in a row is going to put one side square behind the eight-ball. And oftentimes in these games the information is very slow in forthcoming. If we wait for hard information to start lynching it could be Day 5 or 6 before we've got anything to go on - that doesn't seem like a good way to do business.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Because I want to at least learn something from a darn lynch. I'll take any lynch at this point, but I'd much rather at least figure out something in the process. If you have a better suggestion, by all means, go for it. The BK thing is starting to ping my radar, too. I'm just not sure we could get enough traction going that way, the way this game is going.

I guess what I'm saying is that my story pretty much boils down to the same as anyone else, given the assumption that everyone is tacitly stating they're a villager. Lynch me, and you'll either say "Damn, he was right about being the Alchemist" or "Yes, he was lying." Lynch anyone else, and you'll either say "Damn, he was right about being a villager" or "Yes, he was lying." I'm not sure what more you learn about by lynching me, other than replacing "villager" with "Alchemist." On top of that, if I'm not the Alchemist, I probably made up that role, so there wouldn't even necessarily be another Alchemist in the game.

You've probably guessed that my preferred suggestion now is No Lynch. I'm leaning toward BK being the Minotaur as my best hunch right now, but my 2nd best hunch is that he's a wolf. I don't suspect him enough to risk losing him if he's a villager, though -- which is why I prefer No Lynch.

[The Jackal]

FYI tonight I'm going to be at some concert/party with people I haven't seen in over a year so I'm not exactly sure when I'll be able to get out movements. I'll do my best to get them out tonight but won't be sure of internet access, and if something happens then we'll just skip the 3 PM movement tomorrow. I should still be able to get lynch results up at 10, though.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Fair enough. However, if what we hear is true, things that go on in the maze translate into our ability to transact business in the thread. What's the point of silencing people in the thread if what goes on in the thread is truly secondary? In anything resembling a normal WW game, if there are wolves from the start not lynching for three days in a row is going to put one side square behind the eight-ball. And oftentimes in these games the information is very slow in forthcoming. If we wait for hard information to start lynching it could be Day 5 or 6 before we've got anything to go on - that doesn't seem like a good way to do business.

I agree with that sentiment -- I don't want to silence people in the thread at all. First of all, it would be boring; and secondly, I think it's important to get our suspicions out there, and even to put votes on people we think are most likely to be wolves, so that we know where everyone stands. I just think we need to avoid votes made for the sake of lynching someone, anyone, no matter who it is. But if enough of us feel good voting for someone and it's not just to get a lynch, I'm fine with that -- the guess is a little more educated.

[Telle]

But doesn't that make it just way too easy for wolves to hide votes? They can easily vote for one of their own, knowing that it's unlikely that that person will actually get lynched.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

You've probably guessed that my preferred suggestion now is No Lynch. I'm leaning toward BK being the Minotaur as my best hunch right now, but my 2nd best hunch is that he's a wolf. I don't suspect him enough to risk losing him if he's a villager, though -- which is why I prefer No Lynch.

And you know full well I disagree with that...but I can buy the BK suspicion. The D1 vote struck me poorly. However, his comment yesterday makes a good point - who knows what abilities good or bad have in this game? I'm guessing if there are no vanilla villagers there are no vanilla wolves, either.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I agree with that sentiment -- I don't want to silence people in the thread at all. First of all, it would be boring; and secondly, I think it's important to get our suspicions out there, and even to put votes on people we think are most likely to be wolves, so that we know where everyone stands. I just think we need to avoid votes made for the sake of lynching someone, anyone, no matter who it is. But if enough of us feel good voting for someone and it's not just to get a lynch, I'm fine with that -- the guess is a little more educated.

Ultimately, though, votes for the purpose of lynching someone are often how we figure out how who to kill after that. The wolves have to vote too, and figuring out how they vote gives us information about who to go after next.

BTW, Abe hasn't said anything for a long time, which is disconcerting.

[KWhit]

I'm kind of leaning toward Pass's way of thinking. I don't know that lynching someone blindly is a good idea right now.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

FYI tonight I'm going to be at some concert/party with people I haven't seen in over a year so I'm not exactly sure when I'll be able to get out movements. I'll do my best to get them out tonight but won't be sure of internet access, and if something happens then we'll just skip the 3 PM movement tomorrow. I should still be able to get lynch results up at 10, though.

our GM is not
dedicated to WW
VOTE jackyl for lynch

[Lathum]

VOTE ABE SARGENT

[claphamsa]

abe said he woudl try
to play even though he is busy
all days not mon tues

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I'm kind of leaning toward Pass's way of thinking. I don't know that lynching someone blindly is a good idea right now.

My thinking is kind of like mine and Alan's was in the Spawn game. Additional villagers help us right now - more chances to get to the center, additional scans or witness actions, etc.

[claphamsa]

i think it is bad
to not try and find wolves guys
I will support team

[Tyrith]

Sigh, I'd really like to vote for someone that can defend themself, just to squeeze some information, but I think Abe isn't being a productive villager right now. My honest preference is to vote for BK and see if we can get him to talk, but the generally mode of this game makes that seem unlikely...and if he says something we like, it takes so much to wheel a lynch around in this game because of the number of votes required and general level of availability.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Telle

But doesn't that make it just way too easy for wolves to hide votes? They can easily vote for one of their own, knowing that it's unlikely that that person will actually get lynched.

I'd imagine they can, though I don't see how it's more true here than in any other game. Personally, my thinking is that wolves would be more interested in killing villagers than in hiding their vote on another wolf, and I'm trying to take away their excuse of "well, I only voted for that villager because I wanted a lynch."