Console Discussion/E3/Tokyo Game Show Thread

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Oooo, ooo, I get to MBBF!

About that whole "you can resell your used games on the PS4" thing:

Sony to disallow resell or renting of PlayStation games after initially supporting it? - Neowin

That verbiage has been standard in the fine print for the last couple of generations. It was already debunked. I would have posted that had it actually been correct, as it would have been a huge change in policy. But it's not.

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

The real question.. is it as good as the kinect.. and question #2 will it have the same support from developers as the kinect does, since it's not included?

It won't have as much support from developers and that's a good thing IMO. The Kinect is going to end up being a forced accessory that doesn't really add that much to the gaming experience. We'll still have party games, dance games, etc. on both consoles which is fine, but most of the stuff in the rest of the games isn't going to add much. It will be the Sixaxis of this generation.

Neat ideas? No question. Worth the added development time on 80% of the games? No.

If the X1 would have come out with no Kinect, $400 price point, and had more standard policies early on, it would have won this generation in a landslide.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

More video game porn. This time it's a video of the X1......



Article talks about game installs and how they work on the PS4...........

How Mandatory Game Installations Will Work On PS4

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of stuff coming out of the event in New York today. Here's an article about some of the nice features on the PS4.

The seven big little details we love about the PlayStation 4 (so far)

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

The real question.. is it as good as the kinect.. and question #2 will it have the same support from developers as the kinect does, since it's not included?

Yep. If this was last generation, we would be hearing MBBF talking about what a stupid mistake it is to split the consumer base and how the peripheral would fail to get support due to it not being included and how this would doom the Xbox...

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Yep. If this was last generation, we would be hearing MBBF talking about what a stupid mistake it is to split the consumer base and how the peripheral would fail to get support due to it not being included and how this would doom the Xbox...

It IS a stupid mistake if you want the peripheral to gain any traction, but the negative effect will be on the peripheral, not the system.

Microsoft is betting fairly heavily on what Kinect will do for Xbox One. Given that, if they were pursuing the same Kinect-centric strategy but offering a SKU without the camera (just as they offered a SKU with no hard drive in 2005), that would be a stupid mistake and would materially harm the system.

I don't get the sense that Sony are making that bet here. They think they can steal some of the blue ocean market with the camera, but I don't feel like it's the focus of their efforts.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It won't have as much support from developers and that's a good thing IMO. The Kinect is going to end up being a forced accessory that doesn't really add that much to the gaming experience. We'll still have party games, dance games, etc. on both consoles which is fine, but most of the stuff in the rest of the games isn't going to add much. It will be the Sixaxis of this generation.

Neat ideas? No question. Worth the added development time on 80% of the games? No.

If the X1 would have come out with no Kinect, $400 price point, and had more standard policies early on, it would have won this generation in a landslide.

I think your 100% wrong. I think you'll see the kinect used much more this generation. You already see it can be used to turn on the system, see who you are and load up your profile.. all without having to get your controller out.

According to you... it wouldn't be a forced accessory, you already bought one for the ps4. I see nothing wrong with including it if you are going to expand on what it's capable of.

Arguments with someone who complained about it, and then purchased one for your ps4 holds no merit. If you were a MS fan, you would have been quite happy with the kinect being included.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Yep. If this was last generation, we would be hearing MBBF talking about what a stupid mistake it is to split the consumer base and how the peripheral would fail to get support due to it not being included and how this would doom the Xbox...

Exactly.. you won't see near the support with the ps4 camera as you do with the kinect.. not even close.

MS has big plans for the kinect.. or else they would of had a system without it.

I'm excited to skype with friends and family that end up getting an XB1, I know my daughter is going to go nuts with it all.

[dubb93]

The Kinect is one of the big turnoffs about the Xbox1 for me. I hope developers don't feel forced to use it. I know that they will though.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I think your 100% wrong. I think you'll see the kinect used much more this generation. You already see it can be used to turn on the system, see who you are and load up your profile.. all without having to get your controller out.

As opposed to sitting down and pushing a button? I simply don't need that, especially at a mark-up.

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Arguments with someone who complained about it, and then purchased one for your ps4 holds no merit. If you were a MS fan, you would have been quite happy with the kinect being included.

No, I would not have. I prefer a baseline where I can add on what I want. That's not just in video games, that's in any product. Now if the prices were the same and they included the Kinect, then that would be a whole different situation. But that's not the case.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

PS4 embargo was broken by a Hong Kong writer, so press is allowed to start posting impressions. IGN has an article up about their impressions of the UI and system features.

PlayStation 4's Interface and Features Revealed - IGN

PS4 Remote Play Hands On Impressions....

PS4 Remote Play Hands-on Impressions - IGN Conversations - IGN Video

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

As opposed to sitting down and pushing a button? I simply don't need that, especially at a mark-up.



No, I would not have. I prefer a baseline where I can add on what I want. That's not just in video games, that's in any product. Now if the prices were the same and they included the Kinect, then that would be a whole different situation. But that's not the case.

You're so full of shit. What do you save $40? Seriously.. be a shill.. nobody really cares.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

You're so full of shit. What do you save $40? Seriously.. be a shill.. nobody really cares.

He may be, but my take is virtually identical.

The inclusion of Kinect (which I have zero interest in) and the elevated price point is why we're almost certain to become a PS4 household instead of continuing as as XB household.

Even my teenager figured out it's pretty damned stupid to pay for something you don't want.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

He may be, but my take is virtually identical.

The inclusion of Kinect (which I have zero interest in) and the elevated price point is why we're almost certain to become a PS4 household instead of continuing as as XB household.

Even my teenager figured out it's pretty damned stupid to pay for something you don't want.

I completely understand why you would favor a $100 in savings. To promote said system as a huge factor being price, but then slapping down $60 for a camera, brings the savings to $40.. pretty much invalidates the price difference, imho.

Especially when MS is going to make their camera much more integrated, not only into their UI, but for games as well.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

NBA 2K14 review for next-gen. Probably one of the titles I'll be picking up at Target.

NBA 2K14 (PS4, Xbox One) Review - IGN

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

You're so full of shit. What do you save $40? Seriously.. be a shill.. nobody really cares.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't continue with these kinds of posts. Be honest with yourself. You have a level of brand loyalty and there's nothing wrong with that. The pre-release orders continue to favor the PS4 by a 3:2 margin from what I've seen thus far. The poll on this very board for which console people would chose favors the PS4 by a 3:2 margin. Most people are citing the price advantage and lack of interest in a mandatory Kinect as reasons for their choice. It seems pretty obvious at this point

I have little doubt that the PS4 will outsell the X1 by at least a 55-45 share in North America in the launch window if not 60-40. There's just too much evidence that favors that conclusion. Add in the huge advantages that Sony will likely carry in Europe and Asia and they're going to be awfully pleased with how this next year ends.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

No, I would not have. I prefer a baseline where I can add on what I want. That's not just in video games, that's in any product. Now if the prices were the same and they included the Kinect, then that would be a whole different situation. But that's not the case.

Like a hard drive? Again, we can go back and dig up you saying the exact opposite last generation...

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Especially when MS is going to make their camera much more integrated, not only into their UI, but for games as well.

This. Yes, the XBone is $100 more, but I have no doubt that since the Kinect is standard, there will be a LOT more use of it by the developers. Why develop for the Sony camera when there's a good chance it hasn't been purchased by the base community?

Look, I'm a PS3 guy and will be a PS4 guy, but the fact that M-bball-fan drops $60 on a camera and then harps on the value of "choice" completely ignores the development side.

All in all - his strident, pro-Sony chirping is annoying.

[Fidatelo]

Can we make a 'no-Homers' type of thread where anyone not named Mizzou B-ball fan can discuss gaming consoles? I'd like to see what one of these threads looked like with a normal conversation.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If you didn't care, you wouldn't continue with these kinds of posts. Be honest with yourself. You have a level of brand loyalty and there's nothing wrong with that. The pre-release orders continue to favor the PS4 by a 3:2 margin from what I've seen thus far. The poll on this very board for which console people would chose favors the PS4 by a 3:2 margin. Most people are citing the price advantage and lack of interest in a mandatory Kinect as reasons for their choice. It seems pretty obvious at this point

I have little doubt that the PS4 will outsell the X1 by at least a 55-45 share in North America in the launch window if not 60-40. There's just too much evidence that favors that conclusion. Add in the huge advantages that Sony will likely carry in Europe and Asia and they're going to be awfully pleased with how this next year ends.

Honestly I don't, it's you that makes me want to give a middle finger to Sony and purchase anything MS. I have had 2 ps2's and I also have a ps3 now.

You have rose colored glasses.. I don't believe many people here take what you say for anything of value.

Unless you work for Sony, who cares about market share? It's not going to influence my decision on which console I purchase.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

This. Yes, the XBone is $100 more, but I have no doubt that since the Kinect is standard, there will be a LOT more use of it by the developers. Why develop for the Sony camera when there's a good chance it hasn't been purchased by the base community?

Look, I'm a PS3 guy and will be a PS4 guy, but the fact that M-bball-fan drops $60 on a camera and then harps on the value of "choice" completely ignores the development side.

All in all - his strident, pro-Sony chirping is annoying.

It's just about to the point of "ignore" for me.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

NBA 2K14 review for next-gen. Probably one of the titles I'll be picking up at Target.

NBA 2K14 (PS4, Xbox One) Review - IGN

Both the XB1 and PS4 versions run at 1080p/60 FPS..

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Just as a refresher... Who are the most ignored users at FOFC?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Both the XB1 and PS4 versions run at 1080p/60 FPS..

It's a bit sad that even has to be pointed out. As we've discussed, all games should be running at that level. We should be to the point that's a given.

For those that want to take advantage of the Target sale, all of the games listed in the flyer are now in stock. Even the ones that were originally listed as being out Friday are in stock right now. I picked up Killzone, NBA 2K14, and BF4 this morning.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

This. Yes, the XBone is $100 more, but I have no doubt that since the Kinect is standard, there will be a LOT more use of it by the developers. Why develop for the Sony camera when there's a good chance it hasn't been purchased by the base community?

Look, I'm a PS3 guy and will be a PS4 guy, but the fact that M-bball-fan drops $60 on a camera and then harps on the value of "choice" completely ignores the development side.

I agreed with your initial statement in my response. I agreed that I think there will be more forced use of the Kinect by developers and that's not necessarily a good thing IMO. I didn't ignore the development side at all. Anyone who has played games for a long time knows there are a lot of mandatory accessories that have gone just as wrong as optional ones. The only benefit here to MS is that they can disguise a bigger profit take as 'value' by making everyone purchase the camera.

I dropped money on the camera for what amounts to current gen uses (dance games and party games for my younger daughters). It's a good value for me, especially at $60. That doesn't diminish the real market fact that there are a lot of people who aren't like me and don't want anything to do with the cameras and they're going to steer clear of a higher priced X1 for that reason.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

MS shows off a new app for their console. You can share your pictures as slideshows and pair them with music for viewing.

Xbox Wire

[Arles]

I'm on the Microsoft side of the debate, simply because my son just likes it more than the PS3 and it's what we commonly play. I started out on the PS3 side (had it well before the XBox), but eventually drifted to the X360. There was no "massive error" on Sony's part or any amazing feature with the 360 - just personal preference.

After having used the Kinect, I can see why some would want to bypass it in the XBox1. It was pretty frustrating to use for a ton of games. I don't think it would be a terrible idea for the Xbox1 to offer two packages - one with and one without to try and get more market share. That said, given everything I've read, I would probably lean towards getting the camera in the package to ensure I can utilize it if it does indeed get improved.

I still haven't seen a compelling reason to upgrade from the X360, but the debate is certainly interesting.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Arles

After having used the Kinect, I can see why some would want to bypass it in the XBox1. It was pretty frustrating to use for a ton of games. I don't think it would be a terrible idea for the Xbox1 to offer two packages - one with and one without to try and get more market share. That said, given everything I've read, I would probably lean towards getting the camera in the package to ensure I can utilize it if it does indeed get improved.

The difficulty is that peripherals outside of core game controllers historically have an absurdly low adoption rate. Non-core peripherals, especially expensive ones, don't usually get sufficient market penetration for developers to be able to justify developing a game around them.

Sega CD did reasonably well, given its price tag. 32X fell flat. Most of the other peripherals are either fairly focused, such as the instruments that came with Guitar Hero and Rock Band, or never had much support outside of the games they shipped with, as with the Menacer and Super Scope.

That's part of the line Microsoft has to straddle with Kinect. On the one hand, you're up against history in terms of how well it's likely to sell and how much use you're going to see from other developers. Hell, the Balance Board sold a shitton for Wii by virtue of its bundling with Wii Fit, and I can count on one hand the number of non-Wii Fit games that ended up using it.

The other issue is that it'd be really hard to sell the public on buying a whole new Kinect by saying "sorry, the one you bought for Xbox 360 isn't good enough for One." They'd probably sell some anyway, but the adoption rate would almost certainly not be high enough to get AAA developers to plan for Kinect with their games beyond the most rudimentary uses. So you'd have resistance to overcome trying to get the market to buy Kinect 2: Electric Boogaloo at the same time as you're also trying to combat the historical irrelevance that non-core peripherals typically slip into.

If Microsoft wants to just sell Kinects and make some extra margin that way, they could split the SKUs. The Kinect offerings would be about as robust on One as they are on 360 (which is to say, not very), but they could do that.

Or, if they think Kinect is crucial to their vision for the platform, they need to bundle it, as they're doing.

I'm not a Kinect fan, and I'd rather it not be crucial to their vision, but they would be foolish to bet heavily on Kinect being a differentiator and then splitting the market.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

MS shows the 'snap' feature of their interface.

[MizzouRah]

PS4 First Impressions: The Future Is Finally Here

Should You Buy It?

Not yet. I mean, if you're some sort of Sony diehard who can never possibly be swayed to the Microsoft side, then sure. The PS4 is a good console. There is nothing aggressively wrong with it as to scare away or displease a devoted fanboy. The console itself costs $400, games cost your standard $60. Both are reasonable. You will like it, you will be happy.

But if you're relatively console neutral, or even just open-minded? Wait. The Xbox One is right around the corner, and it'd be stupid not to wait a measly week or so to see what sort of counterpoint it offers.

Beyond that, take a look at the launch line-up before you go about and buy anything. If you don't need to play Battlefield 4 or Call of Duty: Ghosts on a next gen console right freaking now, you can stand to wait. You've still got some time before the really fun stuff, the potential system-sellers (Infamous: Second Son, Destiny, Metal Gear Solid 5, etc etc) start coming out. And in general, waiting a year or so on a new console isn't the worst thing in the world; games will be more sophisticated, graphics will be better, maybe you'll even probably see a price drop if you wait long enough. Just saying.

So yes, the PS4 is good. The PS4 is great! But it's only one half of an equation years in the making. You can wait like a few more weeks to see both sides of it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

PS4 First Impressions: The Future Is Finally Here

There's not a console that you couldn't write that about at launch. First adopters don't care about those kind of things. Most know that the PS4 will have a great first party lineup in the near future, so it's not a risk to go out and buy now if you want to dive in. If you don't, you can still pick up a console in March when some of the first party titles start coming in.

PS+ lineup for December was announced. GRID 2 and Guacamelee! both on the docket for PS4. Guacamelee! is a must if you haven't played it before. Great game.

[MizzouRah]

Video Review | PlayStation 4 Review | Polygon

[MizzouRah]

Outside of MBBF.. I can't wait to read what some of the FOFC'ers who get a ps4 or XB1 have to say about next gen.

I've read most of the launch title reviews and nothing jumps out at me of a "must have" game at this point in time.

The good thing is.. I still have x360 games and a couple of ps3 games I still need to play. I blame Steam for that!

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Video Review | PlayStation 4 Review | Polygon

Ha! I knew the PS4 wouldn't be able to compete.

PC: The Review | Rock, Paper, Shotgun

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Ha! I knew the PS4 wouldn't be able to compete.

PC: The Review | Rock, Paper, Shotgun

[MizzouRah]

Oh boy....

Broken PlayStation 4 Systems - IGN

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Oh boy....

Broken PlayStation 4 Systems - IGN

This is why I won't be an early adopter. Let them get this shit cleared up on somebody else's dime/time.

[Logan]

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Oh boy....

Broken PlayStation 4 Systems - IGN

This is why I will always steer clear of buying a console on launch day. If you wait a year or so you get a better game library, and hardware revisions will have fixed the teething problems.

[CleBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

This is why I will always steer clear of buying a console on launch day. If you wait a year or so you get a better game library, and hardware revisions will have fixed the teething problems.

I wish I had the patience to wait because I believe 100% of what you say.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Oh boy....

Broken PlayStation 4 Systems - IGN

Kotaku, IGN, and now an early console winner. Sure seems to be widespread with such a limited number of consoles out there right now.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

This is why I will always steer clear of buying a console on launch day. If you wait a year or so you get a better game library, and hardware revisions will have fixed the teething problems.

THIS.. and what DT said.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Kotaku, IGN, and now an early console winner. Sure seems to be widespread with such a limited number of consoles out there right now.

Oh come on.. not Sony.. it must be a consumer issue!



If this was about the XB1 (and who knows what will happen when it releases) MBBF would have posted that link long before I did.

[Neuqua]

It's a bummer that things like this happen for those with the system, but admittedly I'm almost glad just to see some of the reactions at this forum.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

[Ryan S]

At least this problem appears right away so should be sorted under warranty, though I guess there are no guarantees that the replacement system will be any better.

A bigger concern for me with release day consoles is premature failure outside of the warranty period due to poor design/build quality. If that happens you could be fighting a losing battle to get the manufacturer to admit liability unless it is a PR nightmare on the scale of the RROD.

[Radii]

[Logan]

For MBBF, this must be like when I avoided the Rutgers' Rivals board for 24 hours after getting destroyed by Houston on Homecoming.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

KenBurns Console War (KenBConsoleWar) on Twitter

[gstelmack]

That SouthPark thing was awesome.

[MizzouRah]

Awfully quiet in here.. and yes that South Park video was awesome!